Re: Upgrading Hardy Heron 8.04 Beta to Linux kernel .16 breaks it; it won't boot.

[(``-_-´´) -- Fernando]

Olá Jim.

On Wednesday 16 April 2008 13:53:28 Jim and Judi Harris wrote:
> Please also send a URL describing how to "change your grub boot options to
> remove the splash so you can see the errors etc. better", as I see no such
> help anywhere, including in the GRUB Manual at

> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Jim Harris

when you see the boot splash press ctrl+alt+F1.
Easiest way do that on a temporary base.

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ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. 
I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by...


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Re: Upgrading Hardy Heron 8.04 Beta to Linux kernel .16 breaks it; it won't boot.

[Markus Hitter]

Am 16.04.2008 um 14:53 schrieb Jim and Judi Harris:

> ubuntu-users  -
> Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
>
> and my Ubuntu is the free version so I am not under a "user technical
> support" agreement?

Your Ubuntu is free as well as the technical support through mailing  
lists. If you want to give something back, continue reading these  
lists and answer some of the postings your self.

> Further, don't you agree there should be at least one list where  
> users are
> encouraged to submit problem reports?

If you have a reproduceable misbehaviour, one of the first steps  
should be to file a bug. Improvement requests go there as well.  
Mailing lists are more for discussion, less for documentation (of the  
bug).

> I see no such recommendation.

Remember, Ubuntu is a project driven by thousands of people. While  
some of these people do nothing but to fill in descriptions, help and  
other texts, there are even more snippets missing. If you found such  
a spot of void, write down what belongs there and hand it over to the  
documentation team in form of a bug report.


That said, I think Ubuntu is now adult enough to move the emphasis  
slightly more towards stability. A single showstopper distracts more  
people than a dozen new features.


> See also (others have splash-related problems):

Great you found them. Add such links to your bug report, they will  
save developers to search them their selfs.


Markus

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter
http://www.jump-ing.de/





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Re: Upgrading Hardy Heron 8.04 Beta to Linux kernel .16 breaks it; it won't boot.

[Todd Deshane]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Jim and Judi Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> Thanks to Todd and Henrik. No, Henrik, I don't have a TV card; there is
> nothing but a GeForce 2 video card added to the mobo.
>
> Todd, how can I run any of what you say if it won't boot? Do I do all that
> work on the older version? What about the startup/boot log that I presume is
> generated during the .16 boot?
>
> Please also send a URL describing how to "change your grub boot options to
> remove the splash so you can see the errors etc. better", as I see no such
> help anywhere, including in the GRUB Manual at
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
>

These should help:
http://www.foogazi.com/2007/10/27/remove-the-ubuntu-splash-screen/




>
> which I am starting to read ( 52 pages ! ) but guess what: A search of the
> complete text (HTML) for splash finds none, so I have come to a dead end
> trying to do what you say. Oh well, at least there is a Manual, and I guess
> I can send the GRUB team a request to fix the Manual to include how to
> "remove the splash" and any other explanation of controlling the splash,
> including how to prevent GRUB-update from undoing the changes a user (root?)
> makes (see refs below),
>
> and then, once I know what I want/need to change, should I use QGRUBEditor
> as in
>
>
> http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/how_to_edit_your_grub_settings_with_qgrubeditor
>
> or just nano or gEdit, or something else?
>
> Do you see why a person like me who wants to help improve Linux and defeat
> the Evil Empire gets discouraged, because it's too d__ed difficult to learn
> how to run tools and report problems (even to find out which forum/list to
> post to)? If indeed "Requests and posts to this list should be more mature
> in nature and something that developers would or could act more directly
> on", then why is such guidance not on the page introducing the Ubuntu Lists
> at
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/
>
> which I did read carefully before deciding this list is the only one I
> could use, as I saw
>
> ubuntu-users  -
> Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
>
> and my Ubuntu is the free version so I am not under a "user technical
> support" agreement?
>
> Further, don't you agree there should be at least one list where users are
> encouraged to submit problem reports? I see no such recommendation.
>


Well in ideal world yes there would be one place. The current state of the
world is that the developers are mostly volunteers and busy solving problems
that are more mature. They do their best to solve the most critical issues
first. I know that we all think that they should stop what they are doing
and solve our problem, but that would lead to chaos. Who has the most
important problem?

The process to get the most attention is to follow the proper procedures.
Obviously there are lots of users now of Ubuntu products, all with different
skills sets and backgrounds. So, it is difficult to know how much detail to
give to a particular request. The most research the user can do the better.
The different lists are setup so that people can expect help from those
lists as appropriate. A lot of users come to this list and ask inappropriate
questions (me included). People still try to do their best to answer them.

 I hope to not discourage you from asking questions and I appreciate your
research ahead of time to figure out what you should do.

I hope that the above instructions help you to find your problem in more
detail, search for existing bugs, and then report yours if it is not
reported already.

Best of luck,
Todd




>
> See also (others have splash-related problems):
>
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=503913
>
>
> and some have analyzed it some, and have some more info:
>
> http://osdir.com/ml/boot-loaders.grub.bugs/2005-07/msg00027.html
>
> If you wish to address any of the above points of course I encourage that,
> but either way, I will take all this to the "users list" as you recommend.
>
> Thanks again for any help.
>
> Jim
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Todd Deshane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > This is something that I would recommend report a bug on at:
> >
> > https://launchpad.net/ubuntu
> >
> > From your description it sounds like it is a kernel problem, so look for
> > the appropriate linux package. Make sure you have the latest available and
> > then you should provide some more information in the reports.
> >
> > For some good ideas see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures and
> > in particular: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies
> >
> > Things to make sure you include are the output of dmesg, lspci, and the
> > like.
> >
> > You should also change your grub boot options to remove the splash so
> > you can see the errors etc. better.
> >
> > This type of problem is generally better for the users list or forums.
> > Requests and posts t

Re: Upgrading Hardy Heron 8.04 Beta to Linux kernel .16 breaks it; it won't boot.

[Jim and Judi Harris]

Thanks to Todd and Henrik. No, Henrik, I don't have a TV card; there is
nothing but a GeForce 2 video card added to the mobo.

Todd, how can I run any of what you say if it won't boot? Do I do all that
work on the older version? What about the startup/boot log that I presume is
generated during the .16 boot?

Please also send a URL describing how to "change your grub boot options to
remove the splash so you can see the errors etc. better", as I see no such
help anywhere, including in the GRUB Manual at

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html

which I am starting to read ( 52 pages ! ) but guess what: A search of the
complete text (HTML) for splash finds none, so I have come to a dead end
trying to do what you say. Oh well, at least there is a Manual, and I guess
I can send the GRUB team a request to fix the Manual to include how to
"remove the splash" and any other explanation of controlling the splash,
including how to prevent GRUB-update from undoing the changes a user (root?)
makes (see refs below),

and then, once I know what I want/need to change, should I use QGRUBEditor
as in

http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/how_to_edit_your_grub_settings_with_qgrubeditor

or just nano or gEdit, or something else?

Do you see why a person like me who wants to help improve Linux and defeat
the Evil Empire gets discouraged, because it's too d__ed difficult to learn
how to run tools and report problems (even to find out which forum/list to
post to)? If indeed "Requests and posts to this list should be more mature
in nature and something that developers would or could act more directly
on", then why is such guidance not on the page introducing the Ubuntu Lists
at

https://lists.ubuntu.com/

which I did read carefully before deciding this list is the only one I could
use, as I saw

ubuntu-users  -
Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions

and my Ubuntu is the free version so I am not under a "user technical
support" agreement?

Further, don't you agree there should be at least one list where users are
encouraged to submit problem reports? I see no such recommendation.


See also (others have splash-related problems):

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=503913


and some have analyzed it some, and have some more info:

http://osdir.com/ml/boot-loaders.grub.bugs/2005-07/msg00027.html

If you wish to address any of the above points of course I encourage that,
but either way, I will take all this to the "users list" as you recommend.

Thanks again for any help.

Jim

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Todd Deshane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> This is something that I would recommend report a bug on at:
>
> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu
>
> From your description it sounds like it is a kernel problem, so look for
> the appropriate linux package. Make sure you have the latest available and
> then you should provide some more information in the reports.
>
> For some good ideas see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures and
> in particular: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies
>
> Things to make sure you include are the output of dmesg, lspci, and the
> like.
>
> You should also change your grub boot options to remove the splash so you
> can see the errors etc. better.
>
> This type of problem is generally better for the users list or forums.
> Requests and posts to this list should be more mature in nature and
> something that developers would or could act more directly on.
>
> Follow up questions would be better addressed by those lists as well
> (until the point at which it is a confirmed bug and there is a clear fix and
> something that should get developers attention, use your discretion on that
> one)
>
> Best Regards,
> Todd
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Jim and Judi Harris <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi. This is my first post to this kind of list. I'm not a Linux newbie
> > but close to it. I've been using Ubuntu for the last few years (and tried a
> > few other versions before that), but mostly as a "Typical Windows User",
> > where I focus mostly on using the applications, not the OS. Anyway, perhaps
> > because of that orientation, I have chosen Ubuntu and love it, and have
> > switched all my learning efforts to applications that Ubuntu supports, e.g.
> > Mythbuntu, StreamRipper, DVD authoring, OpenOffice (tho I'm getting real
> > disappointed in Writer compared to M$ Word), lots more.
> >
> > So here's my problem report: I burned a verified ISO of Hardy Beta a
> > couple weeks ago, and it installed flawlessly (after CD Check OK) on a new
> > hard drive in a 5-year-old box I own, and I was using it a little with no
> > problems on and off for a couple weeks, then last weekend it told me it had
> > a bunch of updates (about 150 MB or 150 packages; I'm not sure) and that
> > went flawlessly too, and I did some more stuff and shut down normally. Now,
> > when I power on, it app

Re: Upgrading Hardy Heron 8.04 Beta to Linux kernel .16 breaks it; it won't boot.

[Henrik Johansson]

Hi,

Do you have a TV card?

I have a TV card and i think this is why it fails. If you try to boot
one of the newer kernels 15 or 16 in recovery mode you may see some
hints about it being the TV card. I get a full stop right after some
messages about Hauppauge and modprobe exiting abnormally.

I do believe there is a bug filed already concerning this but i am not
sure of its status. 

I have to use kernel 14 to boot at all now which while it is not a
disaster its not really cool.

/ Hank


tis 2008-04-15 klockan 13:01 -0500 skrev Jim and Judi Harris:
> 
> Hi. This is my first post to this kind of list. I'm not a Linux newbie
> but close to it. I've been using Ubuntu for the last few years (and
> tried a few other versions before that), but mostly as a "Typical
> Windows User", where I focus mostly on using the applications, not the
> OS. Anyway, perhaps because of that orientation, I have chosen Ubuntu
> and love it, and have switched all my learning efforts to applications
> that Ubuntu supports, e.g. Mythbuntu, StreamRipper, DVD authoring,
> OpenOffice (tho I'm getting real disappointed in Writer compared to M$
> Word), lots more.
> 
> So here's my problem report: I burned a verified ISO of Hardy Beta a
> couple weeks ago, and it installed flawlessly (after CD Check OK) on a
> new hard drive in a 5-year-old box I own, and I was using it a little
> with no problems on and off for a couple weeks, then last weekend it
> told me it had a bunch of updates (about 150 MB or 150 packages; I'm
> not sure) and that went flawlwssly too, and I did some more stuff and
> shut down normally. Now, when I power on, it appears to boot OK up to
> where the little orange thingie stops shuttling back and forth, and
> becomes a normal "progress bar", then it goes about 3 jumps till it's
> about 15% done and then just sits there forever. So I power off and
> on, then choose the previous version from the GRUB menu (I think it's
> kernel .12 to boot OK, rather than the .16 that fails). I will be
> happy to send some startup logs or sys info or whatever would help,
> but I don't know how to get them. I can run Terminal and browse the
> Filesystem and Locate and install new tools via the Package Manager.
> So if you want me to run some command-line utility, maybe with sudo,
> please tell me exactly what to type and I will pipe the output to a
> file and send it to you or whatever will help.
> 
> In general, I would like to learn what troubleshooting/diagnostic
> tools I should use in a situation like this, so if you want to send me
> some URLs to those I will learn some more.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Jim Harris
> 
> -- 
> When sitting down in front of a computer to do
> something useful, never say, or even think,
> "I will just do this quickly."


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Re: Upgrading Hardy Heron 8.04 Beta to Linux kernel .16 breaks it; it won't boot.

[Juan C. Villa]

Hey Jim,

I believe that the error you are experiencing is a side effect of a fix that 
was comitted to workaround an issue the ALSA modules had. This fix was reverted 
soon thereafter. Have you attempted to boot under linux -12 kernel?

try:
 sudo apt-get update
 sudo apt-get upgrade

If that does not work for you then you might want to file a bug at 
http://launchpad.net

Regards,
-
Juan C. Villa
Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Georgia Institute of Technology
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(404)441-9653
  _  

From: Jim and Judi Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:01:20 -0600
Subject: Upgrading Hardy Heron 8.04 Beta to Linux kernel .16 breaks it; it 
won't boot.


Hi. This is my first post to this kind of list. I'm not a Linux newbie but 
close to it. I've been using Ubuntu for the last few years (and tried a few 
other versions before that), but mostly as a "Typical Windows User", where I 
focus mostly on using the applications, not the OS. Anyway, perhaps because of 
that orientation, I have chosen Ubuntu and love it, and have switched all my 
learning efforts to applications that Ubuntu supports, e.g. Mythbuntu, 
StreamRipper, DVD authoring, OpenOffice (tho I'm getting real disappointed in 
Writer compared to M$ Word), lots more.
  
So here's my problem report: I burned a verified ISO of Hardy Beta a couple 
weeks ago, and it installed flawlessly (after CD Check OK) on a new hard drive 
in a 5-year-old box I own, and I was using it a little with no problems on and 
off for a couple weeks, then last weekend it told me it had a bunch of updates 
(about 150 MB or 150 packages; I'm not sure) and that went flawlwssly too, and 
I did some more stuff and shut down normally. Now, when I power on, it appears 
to boot OK up to where the little orange thingie stops shuttling back and 
forth, and becomes a normal "progress bar", then it goes about 3 jumps till 
it's about 15% done and then just sits there forever. So I power off and on, 
then choose the previous version from the GRUB menu (I think it's kernel .12 to 
boot OK, rather than the .16 that fails). I will be happy to send some startup 
logs or sys info or whatever would help, but I don't know how to get them. I 
can run Terminal and browse the Filesystem and Locate and install new tools via 
the Package Manager. So if you want me to run some command-line utility, maybe 
with sudo, please tell me exactly what to type and I will pipe the output to a 
file and send it to you or whatever will help.
  
In general, I would like to learn what troubleshooting/diagnostic tools I 
should use in a situation like this, so if you want to send me some URLs to 
those I will learn some more.

Sincerely,

Jim Harris
  
-- 
When sitting down in front of a computer to do
something useful, never say, or even think,
"I will just do this quickly."-- 
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Re: Upgrading Hardy Heron 8.04 Beta to Linux kernel .16 breaks it; it won't boot.

[Todd Deshane]

Hi Jim,

This is something that I would recommend report a bug on at:

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu

>From your description it sounds like it is a kernel problem, so look for the
appropriate linux package. Make sure you have the latest available and then
you should provide some more information in the reports.

For some good ideas see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures and in
particular: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies

Things to make sure you include are the output of dmesg, lspci, and the
like.

You should also change your grub boot options to remove the splash so you
can see the errors etc. better.

This type of problem is generally better for the users list or forums.
Requests and posts to this list should be more mature in nature and
something that developers would or could act more directly on.

Follow up questions would be better addressed by those lists as well (until
the point at which it is a confirmed bug and there is a clear fix and
something that should get developers attention, use your discretion on that
one)

Best Regards,
Todd

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Jim and Judi Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
> Hi. This is my first post to this kind of list. I'm not a Linux newbie but
> close to it. I've been using Ubuntu for the last few years (and tried a few
> other versions before that), but mostly as a "Typical Windows User", where I
> focus mostly on using the applications, not the OS. Anyway, perhaps because
> of that orientation, I have chosen Ubuntu and love it, and have switched all
> my learning efforts to applications that Ubuntu supports, e.g. Mythbuntu,
> StreamRipper, DVD authoring, OpenOffice (tho I'm getting real disappointed
> in Writer compared to M$ Word), lots more.
>
> So here's my problem report: I burned a verified ISO of Hardy Beta a
> couple weeks ago, and it installed flawlessly (after CD Check OK) on a new
> hard drive in a 5-year-old box I own, and I was using it a little with no
> problems on and off for a couple weeks, then last weekend it told me it had
> a bunch of updates (about 150 MB or 150 packages; I'm not sure) and that
> went flawlwssly too, and I did some more stuff and shut down normally. Now,
> when I power on, it appears to boot OK up to where the little orange thingie
> stops shuttling back and forth, and becomes a normal "progress bar", then it
> goes about 3 jumps till it's about 15% done and then just sits there
> forever. So I power off and on, then choose the previous version from the
> GRUB menu (I think it's kernel .12 to boot OK, rather than the .16 that
> fails). I will be happy to send some startup logs or sys info or whatever
> would help, but I don't know how to get them. I can run Terminal and browse
> the Filesystem and Locate and install new tools via the Package Manager. So
> if you want me to run some command-line utility, maybe with sudo, please
> tell me exactly what to type and I will pipe the output to a file and send
> it to you or whatever will help.
>
> In general, I would like to learn what troubleshooting/diagnostic tools I
> should use in a situation like this, so if you want to send me some URLs to
> those I will learn some more.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jim Harris
>
> --
> When sitting down in front of a computer to do
> something useful, never say, or even think,
> "I will just do this quickly."
> --
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
>
>
-- 
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Upgrading Hardy Heron 8.04 Beta to Linux kernel .16 breaks it; it won't boot.

[Jim and Judi Harris]

Hi. This is my first post to this kind of list. I'm not a Linux newbie but
close to it. I've been using Ubuntu for the last few years (and tried a few
other versions before that), but mostly as a "Typical Windows User", where I
focus mostly on using the applications, not the OS. Anyway, perhaps because
of that orientation, I have chosen Ubuntu and love it, and have switched all
my learning efforts to applications that Ubuntu supports, e.g. Mythbuntu,
StreamRipper, DVD authoring, OpenOffice (tho I'm getting real disappointed
in Writer compared to M$ Word), lots more.

So here's my problem report: I burned a verified ISO of Hardy Beta a couple
weeks ago, and it installed flawlessly (after CD Check OK) on a new hard
drive in a 5-year-old box I own, and I was using it a little with no
problems on and off for a couple weeks, then last weekend it told me it had
a bunch of updates (about 150 MB or 150 packages; I'm not sure) and that
went flawlwssly too, and I did some more stuff and shut down normally. Now,
when I power on, it appears to boot OK up to where the little orange thingie
stops shuttling back and forth, and becomes a normal "progress bar", then it
goes about 3 jumps till it's about 15% done and then just sits there
forever. So I power off and on, then choose the previous version from the
GRUB menu (I think it's kernel .12 to boot OK, rather than the .16 that
fails). I will be happy to send some startup logs or sys info or whatever
would help, but I don't know how to get them. I can run Terminal and browse
the Filesystem and Locate and install new tools via the Package Manager. So
if you want me to run some command-line utility, maybe with sudo, please
tell me exactly what to type and I will pipe the output to a file and send
it to you or whatever will help.

In general, I would like to learn what troubleshooting/diagnostic tools I
should use in a situation like this, so if you want to send me some URLs to
those I will learn some more.

Sincerely,

Jim Harris

-- 
When sitting down in front of a computer to do
something useful, never say, or even think,
"I will just do this quickly."
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
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