Re: Firestarter

[Robert Holtzman]

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 11:13:55PM -0700, Jim Kielman wrote:

  ..snip...

> 
> If you are using Firestarter to watch the firewall logs, you're
> doing it wrong. Firestarter needs to be run as root which is a
> security risk, it is only meant /var/log/auth.logto be run to set the 
> firewall rules
> and then shut down. The firewall rules don't disappear once
> Firestarter is shut down.

For a while I ran it as user by editing /etc/sudoers. As soon as I saw
what was being blocked I deleted the entry.

> 
> Personally I don't care where access attempts come from as long as
> they are blocked. Watching blocked attempts just makes me paranoid,
> so I don't bother.

It's interesting.

> 
> All blocked access attempts are logged to /var/log/auth.log, you can
> view the log via the Log File Viewer, if you are really curious.

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Re: Firestarter

[Jim Kielman]

On 10-08-31 05:42 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 05:09:55PM -0700, Jim Kielman wrote:
>>
>> are more then adequate for the average user that is running any
>> services. To answer your questions as to why they have to use a
>> firewall, they don't, it's just something they did when they ran
>> Windows, and they can't believe they can be safe on the internet without
>> one. Personally I don't run one at home, and only enable the firewall
>> when I'm out with my netbook.
>
> When I'm not hooked up to the router which has it's own firewall I
> routinely see a large number of blocked access attempts, quite a few
> from China, listed on Firestarter's events tab. I'll use a firewall if
> it's all the same to you.
>
>

If you are using Firestarter to watch the firewall logs, you're doing it 
wrong. Firestarter needs to be run as root which is a security risk, it 
is only meant to be run to set the firewall rules and then shut down. 
The firewall rules don't disappear once Firestarter is shut down.

Personally I don't care where access attempts come from as long as they 
are blocked. Watching blocked attempts just makes me paranoid, so I 
don't bother.

All blocked access attempts are logged to /var/log/auth.log, you can 
view the log via the Log File Viewer, if you are really curious.

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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Robert Holtzman]

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 05:09:55PM -0700, Jim Kielman wrote:
> 
> are more then adequate for the average user that is running any 
> services. To answer your questions as to why they have to use a 
> firewall, they don't, it's just something they did when they ran 
> Windows, and they can't believe they can be safe on the internet without 
> one. Personally I don't run one at home, and only enable the firewall 
> when I'm out with my netbook.

When I'm not hooked up to the router which has it's own firewall I
routinely see a large number of blocked access attempts, quite a few
from China, listed on Firestarter's events tab. I'll use a firewall if
it's all the same to you.

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 check the price of the beer"


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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Jim Kielman]

On 10-08-31 08:21 AM, Krzysztof Klimonda wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 07:59 -0700, George Farris wrote:
>>
>> Gufw is in no way suitable for a new user.  They have no idea what
>> iptables are or rules for that matter.
>>
>> George
>
> What is the actual use case for a simple and graphical firewall? Why do
> people who have no idea what iptables or rules are should have to use
> firewall at all?
>
> Cheers,
>   KK
>

The default rules when you use:

sudo ufw enable

are more then adequate for the average user that is running any 
services. To answer your questions as to why they have to use a 
firewall, they don't, it's just something they did when they ran 
Windows, and they can't believe they can be safe on the internet without 
one. Personally I don't run one at home, and only enable the firewall 
when I'm out with my netbook.

Jim

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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[George Farris]

On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 17:21 +0200, Krzysztof Klimonda wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 07:59 -0700, George Farris wrote:
> > 
> > Gufw is in no way suitable for a new user.  They have no idea what
> > iptables are or rules for that matter.
> > 
> > George
> 
> What is the actual use case for a simple and graphical firewall? Why do
> people who have no idea what iptables or rules are should have to use
> firewall at all?
> 
> Cheers,
>  KK


Well I'm thinking for many, many users they aren't aware of what TCP is
or rules or how the entire thing functions.  We probably need some sort
of assistant that will set the rules up into known secure states and
then offer the user an easy way to add incoming or out going connections
without the language barrier.

Gufw is close but needs better new user support.  For example the list
of Programs in the Pre-configured section should maybe include such
things as remote desktop, file sharing, media sharing.  These are things
users will want to do.  Also with extended view on it shows one the row
number of the rule but what does that mean?  Who would know that it is
the priority of the rule, hovering the mouse over it says, "Insert the
rule in the specified row".


In "Simple rules"  there is no explanation of what TCP or UDP or BOTH is
and why one would want that.  Possible a quick pointer to some
documentation would help in the tooltip or something similar.

Those are the first things that come to mind.

Cheers
George




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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Krzysztof Klimonda]

On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 07:59 -0700, George Farris wrote:
> 
> Gufw is in no way suitable for a new user.  They have no idea what
> iptables are or rules for that matter.
> 
> George

What is the actual use case for a simple and graphical firewall? Why do
people who have no idea what iptables or rules are should have to use
firewall at all?

Cheers,
 KK


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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[George Farris]

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 17:58 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2010 05:49:48 pm George Farris wrote:
> > On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:20 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 09:22:40PM -0400, Greg Bair wrote:
> > > > On 08/28/2010 08:35 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > > > > I was under the impression that Firestarter was no longer being
> > > > > maintained/developed. Wrong?
> > > > 
> > > > Lastest stable, 1.0.3, was released in 2005, so I don't think so.
> > > 
> > > See the section on Firestarter at
> > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewall
> > 
> > I just read this so maybe Firestarter won't be needed after all.
> > 
> > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-firewall-gui-for-ufw.html
> 
> That's not particularly news.  Gufw is available in all supported releases 
> except Hardy (and it can be gotten from hardy-backports there).
> 
> Scott K
> 

Gufw is in no way suitable for a new user.  They have no idea what
iptables are or rules for that matter.

George



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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Jamie Strandboge]

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 17:58 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Monday, August 30, 2010 05:49:48 pm George Farris wrote:
> > On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:20 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 09:22:40PM -0400, Greg Bair wrote:
> > > > On 08/28/2010 08:35 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > > > > I was under the impression that Firestarter was no longer being
> > > > > maintained/developed. Wrong?
> > > > 
> > > > Lastest stable, 1.0.3, was released in 2005, so I don't think so.
> > > 
> > > See the section on Firestarter at
> > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewall
> > 
> > I just read this so maybe Firestarter won't be needed after all.
> > 
> > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-firewall-gui-for-ufw.html
> 
> That's not particularly news.  Gufw is available in all supported releases 
> except Hardy (and it can be gotten from hardy-backports there).

Actually it is new, cause it isn't gui-ufw. ;) It is a new project
called 'ufw-frontends', and I just found out about it myself.

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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Usama Akkad]

Hi,
I think firestarter is the best of it's kind. I've been using it for three
years and it always dowse the job. we better think in removing UFW than
firestarter

On 2010 8 31 00:59, "Scott Kitterman"  wrote:

On Monday, August 30, 2010 05:49:48 pm George Farris wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:20 -0700, Rob...
That's not particularly news.  Gufw is available in all supported releases
except Hardy (and it can be gotten from hardy-backports there).

Scott K


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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Scott Kitterman]

On Monday, August 30, 2010 05:49:48 pm George Farris wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:20 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 09:22:40PM -0400, Greg Bair wrote:
> > > On 08/28/2010 08:35 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > > > I was under the impression that Firestarter was no longer being
> > > > maintained/developed. Wrong?
> > > 
> > > Lastest stable, 1.0.3, was released in 2005, so I don't think so.
> > 
> > See the section on Firestarter at
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewall
> 
> I just read this so maybe Firestarter won't be needed after all.
> 
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-firewall-gui-for-ufw.html

That's not particularly news.  Gufw is available in all supported releases 
except Hardy (and it can be gotten from hardy-backports there).

Scott K

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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[George Farris]

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:20 -0700, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 09:22:40PM -0400, Greg Bair wrote:
> > On 08/28/2010 08:35 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > > 
> > > I was under the impression that Firestarter was no longer being
> > > maintained/developed. Wrong?
> > > 
> > > 
> > Lastest stable, 1.0.3, was released in 2005, so I don't think so.
> 
> See the section on Firestarter at
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewall
> 



I just read this so maybe Firestarter won't be needed after all.

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-firewall-gui-for-ufw.html





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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Robert Holtzman]

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 09:22:40PM -0400, Greg Bair wrote:
> On 08/28/2010 08:35 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> > 
> > I was under the impression that Firestarter was no longer being
> > maintained/developed. Wrong?
> > 
> > 
> Lastest stable, 1.0.3, was released in 2005, so I don't think so.

See the section on Firestarter at
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewall

> 
> Greg
> 
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 check the price of the beer"


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Re: Firestarter

[George Farris]

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 08:18 -0700, George Farris wrote:
> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 14:10 -0700, Jim Kielman wrote:
> > There is a tool for setting firewall rules installed by default called 
> > ufw, for those that need a graphical tool to set firewall rules, it's 
> > just as easy to install gufw, as it is to install firestarter.
> > 
> 
> Have you actually looked at Gufw compared to Firestarter?  It's totally
> not useful for a beginning user.  Yes Gufw is great once you know things
> about firewalls but to say it can replace Firestarter is way out in left
> field.
> 
> If you want Ubuntu to be easy to use Gufw is totally wrong.
> 
> Cheers
> George
> 


Sorry all that sounded a bit negative, not what I meant it to be.  Too
early Monday morning:-)

Cheers
George



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Re: Firestarter

[George Farris]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 14:10 -0700, Jim Kielman wrote:
> There is a tool for setting firewall rules installed by default called 
> ufw, for those that need a graphical tool to set firewall rules, it's 
> just as easy to install gufw, as it is to install firestarter.
> 

Have you actually looked at Gufw compared to Firestarter?  It's totally
not useful for a beginning user.  Yes Gufw is great once you know things
about firewalls but to say it can replace Firestarter is way out in left
field.

If you want Ubuntu to be easy to use Gufw is totally wrong.

Cheers
George



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Re: Firestarter

[Jamie Strandboge]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 14:10 -0700, Jim Kielman wrote:
> With the included tool for setting the firewall all you have to do is 
> enable the default rule set and it's done. The default rule set blocks 
> almost everything,  and in Windows terms makes the users system seemed 
> to be stealthed. All you need is one simple command:
> 
> sudo ufw enable
> 
> And your done. If the defult rules aren't good enough, you can use gufw 
> for adding additional rules.
> 
gufw is a fine graphical tool but I might also mention you can add rules
with the ufw command-line-interface as well. Eg:

$ sudo ufw allow OpenSSH
$ sudo ufw enable

See 'man ufw' for details.

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Re: Firestarter

[Daniel Hollocher]

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Jim Kielman  wrote:
> There is a tool for setting firewall rules installed by default called
> ufw, for those that need a graphical tool to set firewall rules, it's
> just as easy to install gufw, as it is to install firestarter.
>
> The biggest problem is one of education, most users assume that
> firestarter is the the firewall, when in fact it is iptables/netfilter.
>
>
> I'm still learning how to use mailing lists, I created a message last
> night that only got sent to the the person I replied to, so here goes again.
>
> I'm one of the moderators on the forum, and we are constantly trying to
> educate the membership of the dangers of running applications as root.
> Firestarter needs to be run as root.
>
> This wouldn't be a problem if users ran the program the way it is
> supposed to be run, start it, set the firewall rules, then shut it down.
> Many users start it up when they log in, and leave it run all day,as it
> monitors the firewall and shows blocked connection. Many also assume
> that if firestarter is shutdown they no longer are protected by a firewall.
>
> With the included tool for setting the firewall all you have to do is
> enable the default rule set and it's done. The default rule set blocks
> almost everything,  and in Windows terms makes the users system seemed
> to be stealthed. All you need is one simple command:
>
> sudo ufw enable
>
> And your done. If the defult rules aren't good enough, you can use gufw
> for adding additional rules.
>

Would you mind updating the community wiki [1] to include this
information?  That way, web searching users and IRC users can also be
informed of such guidelines.  I'm envisioning an additional section in
the beginning that would allow one to use a firewall, yet stay
ignorant of what a firewall is or how it works.  Something like:

QUICK GUIDE
Most users don't need a firewall because linux based systems have
features blah blah blah.  But, in situations A, B, C, a firewall can
enhance security by making the computer invisible on the network.

To setup:
   sudo apt-get install ufw
   sudo ufw enable

INTRODUCTION


And then maybe put the root issue with firestarter in the bottom
section.  Thanks!

[1] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Firewall

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Re: Firestarter

[Scott Kitterman]

On Sunday, August 29, 2010 05:10:38 pm Jim Kielman wrote:
> There is a tool for setting firewall rules installed by default called
> ufw, for those that need a graphical tool to set firewall rules, it's
> just as easy to install gufw, as it is to install firestarter.
> 
> The biggest problem is one of education, most users assume that
> firestarter is the the firewall, when in fact it is iptables/netfilter.
> 
> 
> I'm still learning how to use mailing lists, I created a message last
> night that only got sent to the the person I replied to, so here goes
> again.
> 
> I'm one of the moderators on the forum, and we are constantly trying to
> educate the membership of the dangers of running applications as root.
> Firestarter needs to be run as root.
> 
> This wouldn't be a problem if users ran the program the way it is
> supposed to be run, start it, set the firewall rules, then shut it down.
> Many users start it up when they log in, and leave it run all day,as it
> monitors the firewall and shows blocked connection. Many also assume
> that if firestarter is shutdown they no longer are protected by a firewall.
> 
> With the included tool for setting the firewall all you have to do is
> enable the default rule set and it's done. The default rule set blocks
> almost everything,  and in Windows terms makes the users system seemed
> to be stealthed. All you need is one simple command:
> 
> sudo ufw enable
> 
> And your done. If the defult rules aren't good enough, you can use gufw
> for adding additional rules.

All good arguments for why firestarter isn't something to ship in the default 
install, but not a reason to remove it from the archive.

Scott K

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Firestarter

[Jim Kielman]

There is a tool for setting firewall rules installed by default called 
ufw, for those that need a graphical tool to set firewall rules, it's 
just as easy to install gufw, as it is to install firestarter.

The biggest problem is one of education, most users assume that 
firestarter is the the firewall, when in fact it is iptables/netfilter.


I'm still learning how to use mailing lists, I created a message last 
night that only got sent to the the person I replied to, so here goes again.

I'm one of the moderators on the forum, and we are constantly trying to 
educate the membership of the dangers of running applications as root. 
Firestarter needs to be run as root.

This wouldn't be a problem if users ran the program the way it is 
supposed to be run, start it, set the firewall rules, then shut it down. 
Many users start it up when they log in, and leave it run all day,as it 
monitors the firewall and shows blocked connection. Many also assume 
that if firestarter is shutdown they no longer are protected by a firewall.

With the included tool for setting the firewall all you have to do is 
enable the default rule set and it's done. The default rule set blocks 
almost everything,  and in Windows terms makes the users system seemed 
to be stealthed. All you need is one simple command:

sudo ufw enable

And your done. If the defult rules aren't good enough, you can use gufw 
for adding additional rules.

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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Greg Bair]

On 08/29/2010 10:27 AM, Krzysztof Klimonda wrote:
> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:42 +0200, Davyd McColl wrote:
>> I think perhaps we have different views on what constitutes
>> "maintenance". As libraries that Firestarter depends on progress,
>> someone will need to maintain the package to make sure that it
>> installs correctly and works correctly. That's what "maintenance" on a
>> stable package means. Yes, it works -- for now -- but any package,
>> left alone in a dynamic system, will eventually fall behind and cease
>> to work.
> 
> But, at least for now, it works and some people are still using it [1].
> Removing it from archive will force those people to find alternatives
> and migrate to them. In my opinion as long as application actually works
> (even if it provides only a subset of features underlying system has) it
> shouldn't be removed without a good cause.
> 
> Cheers,
>  KK

Not to mention that in launchpad, firestarter has 55 open bugs[1].  So
obviously there is something a maintainer can do here.  It's not so
stable that it doesn't need maintenance/development.

[1]https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firestarter

Greg

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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Krzysztof Klimonda]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 11:42 +0200, Davyd McColl wrote:
> I think perhaps we have different views on what constitutes
> "maintenance". As libraries that Firestarter depends on progress,
> someone will need to maintain the package to make sure that it
> installs correctly and works correctly. That's what "maintenance" on a
> stable package means. Yes, it works -- for now -- but any package,
> left alone in a dynamic system, will eventually fall behind and cease
> to work.

But, at least for now, it works and some people are still using it [1].
Removing it from archive will force those people to find alternatives
and migrate to them. In my opinion as long as application actually works
(even if it provides only a subset of features underlying system has) it
shouldn't be removed without a good cause.

Cheers,
 KK

[1] http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=firestarter


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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Davyd McColl]

>> If the answer is yes, then it does not need maintaining whilst
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW is also supported, there seems no need
to drop an application just because it has reached maturity and needs no
further 'tweaking' - Just my 2 cents worth.

I think perhaps we have different views on what constitutes "maintenance".
As libraries that Firestarter depends on progress, someone will need to
maintain the package to make sure that it installs correctly and works
correctly. That's what "maintenance" on a stable package means. Yes, it
works -- for now -- but any package, left alone in a dynamic system, will
eventually fall behind and cease to work.

The job of maintenance on a package like this which doesn't seem to have a
roadmap of missing features or any glaring bugs is very light -- keep it
installed and run it now and then to make sure it still works; react when
the package no longer works as expected. Yet still, maintenance it is.
Ordinarily the author of a stable project like this would be happy to
continue with this kind of maintenance -- or to be blunt enough to proclaim
end-of-life as a fair warning to the distributions which bundle the app.



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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Phillip Whiteside]

Hi,

Question: Does it work?

If the answer is yes, then it does not need *maintaining **whilst *
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW is also supported, there seems no need
to drop an application just because it has reached maturity and needs no
further 'tweaking' - Just my 2 cents worth.
*
*
***Regards,*
*
*
*Phill.
*
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Davyd McColl  wrote:

> I actually want to thank the OP for mentioning this project. It's an
> easy-to-use, intuitive firewall manager for the masses that I didn't know
> about. Personally, I hack together my own scripts using iptables directly --
> but not everyone either can or wants to do this.
>
> I'll be recommending this on to friends.
>
> Don't get rid of it (or advocate getting rid of ti) just because it's no
> longer the new kid on the block. It works nicely. It's being maintained.
> What else could a person want?
>
> Thanks again, Chris.
>
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> The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
> skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
> clever tricks like the plague.
> - Djikstra.
>
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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Greg Bair]

On 08/28/2010 08:35 PM, Robert Holtzman wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 09:36:16PM +0200, Davyd McColl wrote:
>> I actually want to thank the OP for mentioning this project. It's an
>> easy-to-use, intuitive firewall manager for the masses that I didn't know
>> about. Personally, I hack together my own scripts using iptables directly --
>> but not everyone either can or wants to do this.
>>
>> I'll be recommending this on to friends.
>>
>> Don't get rid of it (or advocate getting rid of ti) just because it's no 
>> longer
>> the new kid on the block. It works nicely. It's being maintained. What else
>> could a person want?
> 
> I was under the impression that Firestarter was no longer being
> maintained/developed. Wrong?
> 
> 
Lastest stable, 1.0.3, was released in 2005, so I don't think so.

Greg

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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Robert Holtzman]

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 09:36:16PM +0200, Davyd McColl wrote:
> I actually want to thank the OP for mentioning this project. It's an
> easy-to-use, intuitive firewall manager for the masses that I didn't know
> about. Personally, I hack together my own scripts using iptables directly --
> but not everyone either can or wants to do this.
> 
> I'll be recommending this on to friends.
> 
> Don't get rid of it (or advocate getting rid of ti) just because it's no 
> longer
> the new kid on the block. It works nicely. It's being maintained. What else
> could a person want?

I was under the impression that Firestarter was no longer being
maintained/developed. Wrong?

-- 
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
 check the price of the beer"


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Re: Firestarter (Chris Jones)

[Davyd McColl]

I actually want to thank the OP for mentioning this project. It's an
easy-to-use, intuitive firewall manager for the masses that I didn't know
about. Personally, I hack together my own scripts using iptables directly --
but not everyone either can or wants to do this.

I'll be recommending this on to friends.

Don't get rid of it (or advocate getting rid of ti) just because it's no
longer the new kid on the block. It works nicely. It's being maintained.
What else could a person want?

Thanks again, Chris.

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The competent programmer is fully aware of the limited size of his own
skull. He therefore approaches his task with full humility, and avoids
clever tricks like the plague.
- Djikstra.
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Re: Firestarter

[Chris Jones]

I'm sure there's a few selected people out there among the Ubuntu
community who still use Firestarter.

And as it has been updated for the Maverick release, there's no real
reason/purpose to be discussing a package removal from the repos.

Regards


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Chris Jones 


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Re: firestarter

[Micah Gersten]

On 08/26/2010 10:18 PM, Jim Kielman wrote:
> Opps, I sent this earlier from the wrong email address.
> 
> The only update, was to make it so that it will build with new gtk 
> libraries, and  other changes that allow it to work with maverick. 
> Firestarter has served well over it's lifetime, but with nobody actually 
> maintaining the program, it's time to put it to rest. We have 
> replacements in ufw and gfw, so there really is no need for it to still 
> be in the repositories.
> 

As long as it's maintained in a working state in Debian, why remove it?

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firestarter

[Jim Kielman]

Opps, I sent this earlier from the wrong email address.

The only update, was to make it so that it will build with new gtk 
libraries, and  other changes that allow it to work with maverick. 
Firestarter has served well over it's lifetime, but with nobody actually 
maintaining the program, it's time to put it to rest. We have 
replacements in ufw and gfw, so there really is no need for it to still 
be in the repositories.

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Re: Firestarter

[Micah Gersten]

Yes, but it was updated for Maverick.  Perhaps and SRU for Lucid is
necessary?

On 08/26/2010 07:01 AM, Kurt Kraut wrote:
> As far as I tested, it doesn't work at all on Lucid.
> 
> 
> Kurt Kraut
> 
> 2010/8/26 Cosme Domínguez Díaz  >
> 
> But it works or no?
> 
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Re: Firestarter

[Kurt Kraut]

As far as I tested, it doesn't work at all on Lucid.


Kurt Kraut

2010/8/26 Cosme Domínguez Díaz 

> But it works or no?
>
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Re: Firestarter

[Cosme Domínguez Díaz]

But it works or no?

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Firestarter

[Jim Kielman]

When is firestarter going to be removed from the repos, it hasn't been 
updated since 2005. It's about time the old program was laid to rest.

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