Re: OT: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 08:51:02 +0200, Jan Claeys wrote:
>ROXTerm is just re-using the VTE terminal widget that was written as
>part of GNOME Terminal, of course, and VTE has supported this for a
>very long time.

A lot of gnome-terminal users dropped gnome-terminal and switched to
roxterm for good reasons, there are (perhaps were) several differences
between those terminal emulations.

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Re: OT: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Jan Claeys]

Ralf Mardorf schreef op do 31-03-2016 om 15:09 [+0200]:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:42:01 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
> >On 31 March 2016 at 12:47, Ralf Mardorf 
> >wrote:
> >> ...
> >> Does any of the bloatware desktop environments terminal emulations
> >> auto-wrap lines, if you resize the window? In more than ten years
> >> that I'm using Linux, they were unable to support this.  
> >
> >Do you mean in the way that gnome-terminal does?
> 
> Yes, I test installed GNOME Terminal 3.18.3 and it works for
> gnome-terminal too, I anyway removed it and will stay with Roxterm 
> for several reasons.

ROXTerm is just re-using the VTE terminal widget that was written as
part of GNOME Terminal, of course, and VTE has supported this for a
very long time.

Maybe you should start thanking the bloatware desktop environments
instead of bashing them all the time...?  ;-)


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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Tom H]

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Xen  wrote:
> Tom H schreef op 31-03-16 10:38:
>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Xen  wrote:
>>> Colin Law schreef op 28-03-2016 18:38:


 Are these not issues for upstream Nautilus developers to consider
 rather than Ubuntu?
>>> The point is really that if people "downstream" *care* their voice becomes
>>> stronger 'upstream'.
>>>
>>> If a number of people downstream say "hey, yes this is a great idea" it is
>>> no longer one single person trying to knock at the upstream door. Now it is
>>> an important downstream user (like, a part of, or, the entire Ubuntu thing)
>>> that tries to make a voice be heard, and this kinda changes things.
>>>
>>> If downstream pulls its hands off of the idea, upstream is not really going
>>> to be interested in it either. So that is a very non-functional way to
>>> approach things, it is like destroying the bridges you have before you even
>>> cross them.
>> This isn't how upstream development's working.
>>
>> For example, look at all of the user push-back against the Gnome Shell
>> and Unity UIs. The upstream developers stood by their guns.
>>
>> The only way to push for a change is to file an RFE bug with upstream.
>
> Lots of people give up before they even try.

Tough luck then. If you're not willing to put in some effort, why
should you get any benefit?!


> But if Ubuntu wanted a certain feature in its file manager, sure they
> would be able to get it there. No problem at all. They are not just a
> reed in the wind, having no power over its own fate. That is just not true.

No. It isn't Ubuntu's file manager, it's Gnome's. And the Gnome
developers only care about their DE.


> Saying that something is an issue for upstream but not for Ubuntu
> itself, is making Ubuntu powerless.

When it comes to pushing features into Gnome, it is powerless.

Unity uses a patched, older version of Nautilus because the upstream
Gnome developers remove/change features that Ubuntu wants. Both
Cinnamon and Mate have forked Nautilus because of this.


> I just don't like this defeatist attitude, I'm sorry about my words.

It's realism. You should familiarize yourself with Gnome.

As for other upstreams, it doesn't make sense to request a specific
change or feature within Ubuntu. A few months ago, I filed a systemd
RFE. Even though the Ubuntu systemd maintainer's a very helpful guy, I
can't imagine him doing so on my behalf; especially since I had to
convince Lennart and Martin might not have cared about this
femto-feature.

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OT: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:42:01 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
>On 31 March 2016 at 12:47, Ralf Mardorf 
>wrote:
>> ...
>> Does any of the bloatware desktop environments terminal emulations
>> auto-wrap lines, if you resize the window? In more than ten years
>> that I'm using Linux, they were unable to support this.  
>
>Do you mean in the way that gnome-terminal does?

Yes, I test installed GNOME Terminal 3.18.3 and it works for
gnome-terminal too, I anyway removed it and will stay with Roxterm for
several reasons.

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Colin Law]

On 31 March 2016 at 12:47, Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
> ...
> Does any of the bloatware desktop environments terminal emulations
> auto-wrap lines, if you resize the window? In more than ten years
> that I'm using Linux, they were unable to support this.

Do you mean in the way that gnome-terminal does?

Colin

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:10:08 +0200, Xen wrote:
>Tom H schreef op 31-03-16 10:38:
>> The only way to push for a change is to file an RFE bug with
>> upstream.  
>
>Lots of people give up before they even try.

Please provide evidences for this claim. Did you even try?

Assumed you want to know if more users need such a default, you should
ask on a user list.

Without success I tried hard to explain upstream of different projects
that gvfs damages external green HDDs, because it for no valid reason
wakes up sleeping drives, so that they spin down and up again and again
and I ask them to fix the issue, use a replacement for gvfs or at least
by default should make it an optional dependency.

When I noticed the same issue for lxpanel, regarding a libfm issue,
gvfs isn't involved, a developer fixed it immediately.

It depends to the project and involved developers.

There's quasi no chance to get rid of idiotic bugs and missing features
for GNOME, KDE, Xfce and all that bloated software, but there is so
much lightweight software, that is feature richer than the bloatware,
were developers are happy to care about such issues, if you report them.

Does any of the bloatware desktop environments terminal emulations
auto-wrap lines, if you resize the window? In more than ten years
that I'm using Linux, they were unable to support this. Roxterm OTOH
provides everything a terminal emulation should provide.

IOW if you dislike Unity, Gnome and Co, as I do, simply use powerful
tools that are not related to bloatware desktop environments.

Even if you wish to use Unity or Gnome, you don't need to use Nautilus.
Even if Nautilus provides what you need, but only for GNOMEish apps,
while you wish to use Nautlius with other apps, you could add an
extension script using a terminal command for the x clip board.

There never will be defaults, that fit to everybody's needs.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Xen]

Tom H schreef op 31-03-16 10:38:
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Xen  wrote:
>> Colin Law schreef op 28-03-2016 18:38:
>>> Are these not issues for upstream Nautilus developers to consider
>>> rather than Ubuntu?
>> The point is really that if people "downstream" *care* their voice becomes
>> stronger 'upstream'.
>>
>> If a number of people downstream say "hey, yes this is a great idea" it is
>> no longer one single person trying to knock at the upstream door. Now it is
>> an important downstream user (like, a part of, or, the entire Ubuntu thing)
>> that tries to make a voice be heard, and this kinda changes things.
>>
>> If downstream pulls its hands off of the idea, upstream is not really going
>> to be interested in it either. So that is a very non-functional way to
>> approach things, it is like destroying the bridges you have before you even
>> cross them.
> This isn't how upstream development's working.
>
> For example, look at all of the user push-back against the Gnome Shell
> and Unity UIs. The upstream developers stood by their guns.
>
> The only way to push for a change is to file an RFE bug with upstream.

Lots of people give up before they even try. I can tell you some real
nasty things In my life that went wrong because I was not the one that
pushed for it, but someone else who didn't  care.


That other person would then tell all kinds of excuses why the other
party made the choice they did, but in reality that other party would
have responded differently to someone who actually cared, or who tried
harder. Many times people assume something can't happen because the
other says no at the start. And there are also many people who say no
habitually because the people that ask often don't even want what they
ask. And anyone who gives up after the first no welll..

Let's say that some people go by "Don't take no for an answer" and then
99% of other people go by "no, it can't work, because X Y and Z".

Many times someone who says no will say yes if a more creative proposal
is proposed, or when the person pushing for something does his best and
tries hard to take away the issues that the other person has, which
often come down to not understanding the solution yet in full.

There is often a misunderstanding at play and if you can find the places
where you disagree, you may find that there is a solution that will
satisfy both. But the person who doesn't try will never get there.

What you need to do is seek the common ground.

But if Ubuntu wanted a certain feature in its file manager, sure they
would be able to get it there. No problem at all. They are not just a
reed in the wind, having no power over its own fate. That is just not true.

I'm sorry if I don't write very well, I often forget what I want to
write the moment I start writing, and my voice is getting subdued.

Saying that something is an issue for upstream but not for Ubuntu
itself, is making Ubuntu powerless. It is not either/or, it is both and.
There may be Ubuntu developers working upstream too. Why do you insist
they are two separate worlds. Without Ubuntu, Nautilus would be almost
useless, since only Gnome is using it other than that right. Or Mint, I
don't know. Gnome Shell is a disease run rampant of people who are
cannabalizing their own system. Unity is a program by a corporation that
wants to control its image and its product, and wants to maintain
custody of everything it does. You can't get Microsoft to change its
ways either (or Apple) but if you can make a fair point that THEY can
see as being to their advantage, they will certainly heed that. I know
Canonical is probably rather headstrong and not always to their own
benefit, and the Gnome 'people' just try to be a corporation they are
not with customers they don't have.

And maybe depending how strong this sentiment is, you won't get anything
done.

Nevertheless in the case of Ubuntu I believe they ARE interested in
improvements they agree with, and they are not beyond hope as the Gnome
people are. You could say Ubuntu is itself "upstream". For instance, it
would be like saying the KDE team has nothing to say about Kate/Kwrite.
Ubuntu has the resources to change Nautilus themselves if they wanted to.

I just don't like this defeatist attitude, I'm sorry about my words.

Kudos.



>


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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Tom H]

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Xen  wrote:
> Colin Law schreef op 28-03-2016 18:38:
>>
>> Are these not issues for upstream Nautilus developers to consider
>> rather than Ubuntu?
>
> The point is really that if people "downstream" *care* their voice becomes
> stronger 'upstream'.
>
> If a number of people downstream say "hey, yes this is a great idea" it is
> no longer one single person trying to knock at the upstream door. Now it is
> an important downstream user (like, a part of, or, the entire Ubuntu thing)
> that tries to make a voice be heard, and this kinda changes things.
>
> If downstream pulls its hands off of the idea, upstream is not really going
> to be interested in it either. So that is a very non-functional way to
> approach things, it is like destroying the bridges you have before you even
> cross them.

This isn't how upstream development's working.

For example, look at all of the user push-back against the Gnome Shell
and Unity UIs. The upstream developers stood by their guns.

The only way to push for a change is to file an RFE bug with upstream.

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Oliver Grawert]

hi,
Am Samstag, den 26.03.2016, 14:23 -0400 schrieb Peter Belmont:
> When I use Nautilus, or look at Desktop, I see representations of many
> files and folders. I want a very quick right-click method to copy the
> fullpathname of such items.
> 
>   Am I missing this? Does it exist already?
> 
drag/drop does that by default here ...

right click copy in nautilus and right click paste in the target app
prefixes it with  "file://" though, there it depends if the target app
can actually handle the file:// protocol

ciao
oli


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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Xen]

Colin Law schreef op 28-03-2016 18:38:

Are these not issues for upstream Nautilus developers to consider
rather than Ubuntu?



The point is really that if people "downstream" *care* their voice 
becomes stronger 'upstream'.


If a number of people downstream say "hey, yes this is a great idea" it 
is no longer one single person trying to knock at the upstream door. Now 
it is an important downstream user (like, a part of, or, the entire 
Ubuntu thing) that tries to make a voice be heard, and this kinda 
changes things.


If downstream pulls its hands off of the idea, upstream is not really 
going to be interested in it either. So that is a very non-functional 
way to approach things, it is like destroying the bridges you have 
before you even cross them.


Regards.




Colin

On 28 March 2016 at 04:11, Dale Amon  wrote:

I like the way NeXTstep did it. If you drag an icon
from the Workspace Manager to a shell or into Emacs,
it 'drops' as the full path name of the item you
dragged.



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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Colin Law]

Are these not issues for upstream Nautilus developers to consider
rather than Ubuntu?

Colin

On 28 March 2016 at 04:11, Dale Amon  wrote:
> I like the way NeXTstep did it. If you drag an icon
> from the Workspace Manager to a shell or into Emacs,
> it 'drops' as the full path name of the item you
> dragged.
>

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Dale Amon]

I like the way NeXTstep did it. If you drag an icon
from the Workspace Manager to a shell or into Emacs,
it 'drops' as the full path name of the item you
dragged.


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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Xen]

I just want to say that such a thing can make a great difference if it 
is included by default.


Everything or anything that needs a customary script to be installed 
kinda increases the investment required to use the feature by 8000%.


And if you have a 100 such things you want to change, it can take you a 
long time. Or after every install you need to remember to redo it. Or 
now you have to keep configuration files around between installs. Or, 
or. A customisation is usually not so bad when you do it the first time. 
It really stinks when you have to do it again.


"Copy file path" as the popup menu option would be my suggestion. Plain, 
clear, says what it means. Intuitive enough, everyone will find it.


Has been missing from Windows for as long as Windows has existed, too.



Op 27-3-2016 om 11:14 schreef Colin Law:

On 27 March 2016 at 09:47, Ralf Mardorf  wrote:

PPS:

I suspect that Nautilus provides to add plugin/action scripts, for
SpaceFM you can write "tools" scripts. IOW when using the variable "%f"
you could write a script that copies to the clip board or opens a
terminal with the full path etc..

Good idea. Googling for nautilus script copy full path to clipboard
yields a number of likely looking hits.  It seems pretty trivial at
first glance.  Might even give it a go myself as it would certainly be
useful

Colin




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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Colin Law]

On 27 March 2016 at 09:47, Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
> PPS:
>
> I suspect that Nautilus provides to add plugin/action scripts, for
> SpaceFM you can write "tools" scripts. IOW when using the variable "%f"
> you could write a script that copies to the clip board or opens a
> terminal with the full path etc..

Good idea. Googling for nautilus script copy full path to clipboard
yields a number of likely looking hits.  It seems pretty trivial at
first glance.  Might even give it a go myself as it would certainly be
useful

Colin

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

PPPS:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:47:37 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>PPS:
>
>I suspect that Nautilus provides to add plugin/action scripts, for
>SpaceFM you can write "tools" scripts. IOW when using the variable "%f"
>you could write a script that copies to the clip board or opens a
>terminal with the full path etc..

http://askubuntu.com/questions/21953/how-do-i-customize-the-context-menu-in-nautilus
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/wily/man1/xclip.1.html




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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

PPS:

I suspect that Nautilus provides to add plugin/action scripts, for
SpaceFM you can write "tools" scripts. IOW when using the variable "%f"
you could write a script that copies to the clip board or opens a
terminal with the full path etc..

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

PS:

FWIW reagrding your request Xfe also is a PITA.

Note, an advantage of SpceFM, Rodent and Thunar (Thunar at least without
gvfs) is, that they allow to delete items with the delete key, while
other file managers don't delete, they usually only allow to move to
trash (~/.local/share/Trash/).

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Re: suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Ralf Mardorf]

I guess you need to file a feature request to upstream, IOW to the GNOME
bug tracker.

I'm not using Nautilus, but if you use Thunar, and the address bar e.g.
shows /home/rocketmouse/ while .bogofilter is selected and you Ctrl+A
and Ctrl+C in the address bar, you get /home/rocketmouse/.bogofilter
and not just /home/rocketmouse/. In addition Thunar provides a right
click menu with "Open Terminal Here".

FWIW I'm even not a Thunar user, I just mention it, since this might be
what you expect.

I prefer SpaceFM over any other file manager.

In SpaceFM select e.g. .bogofilter, then Ctrl+C and you
get /home/rocketmouse/.bogofilter, this way it btw. can be done for
Thunar too.

Let alone Rodent, were you can click everything by mouse and without
using a terminal, you simply can type any terminal command.

IIRC the KDE file manager allows to split the window in file manager and
terminal and the terminal follows each step done by the file manager.

If you select an item when using Caja and you copy it works too, so
this file manager from Mate might be close enough to Nautilus for you.

Actually Nemo, the Nautilus fork from Cinnamon isn't that comfortable,
but it at least provides a right click "Open In Terminal", that
OTOH fails on my install.

Tested on an Arch install, since for my Ubuntu Wily install I only have
SpaceFM and Rodent installed.

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suggest policy: all GUI apps that display files/folders right-click copies full path

[Peter Belmont]

When I use Nautilus, or look at Desktop, I see representations of many
files and folders. I want a very quick right-click method to copy the
fullpathname of such items.

Am I missing this? Does it exist already?

It would be very useful to me and probably to many users.

It would also be "culturally consistent" with Mozilla software.

*** ***

INSTEAD, TODAY, in order to "drop" full text pathnames of these
files/folders into (say) TERMINAL, I must laboriously construct the full
pathname. I must copy the filename (or foldername) and I must also copy
(or, in case of DeskTop, type from memory) the path.

Thus I need two operations to obtain

path / filename

It's crazy. I'm surprised no-one's proposed this before.

I want to skip the labor. I want a facility like FireFox and ThunderBird
provide where, when you

right-click something
you get a drop-down menu which INCLUDES
copy-this-item
which produces a saved ("copied") text
which may be "pasted" elsewhere.

It works for email addresses, URLs
UBUNTU should make this sort of thing work for ALL GUIs which display
files or folders.

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