Re: Feedback Time
user. So it makes no sense. This target audience it is not you yourself, and they don't even exist really. They are different people that are an imaginging. Who knows these average users? That are interested in Gnome? That know about Gnome? I don't know any. I know people who barely know how to open the internet (a browser) and I would not give them Ubuntu Gnome without support, or any form of computer without support really. I would not give my mother and father a computer without my help, essentially. Those of my age, they can all use computers, none excepted. In the age range of 30-5, there are no average users. There are only proficient users. So you also only cater to elderly people. At least, anyone who has gone to school and had to use a computer for school knows their way around it. Reall, really skewed. My apologies. Quoting Alfredo Hernández aldomann.desi...@gmail.com: I agree with Julien. Our purpose is to give a pure GNOME experience. The average user doesn't care if they are using Totem or VLC, they want a Video Player and they will most probably have only one video player installed. On 26 June 2015 at 17:33, Julien Olivier jul...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, sorry, my explanation lacked an important detail: I reckon the GNOME developers wanted to use generic names for first-party apps only (and thus, for one and only one app for each task). Third party apps are still displayed using their real name. I might be wrong though, or GNOME developers might also have changed their strategy since the last time I checked... Le vendredi 26 juin 2015 à 16:04 +0200, Narcis Garcia a écrit : I believe there is a middle point for this: Gedit text editor Nautilus file manager Firefox web browser etc. If someone names simply Web browser to Epiphany, how is named Firefox?? In a bad names strategy, user could see this in an applications menu: Web browser - This is Firefox (you must know) Web browser - This is Mirori (you must know) Web browser - This is Icecat (you must know) ...no sense. It's very difficult for casual (or new) users this other extreme in a bad names strategy: Sylpheed - This is an e-mail software (you must know) Evolution - This is an e-mail software (you must know) Geary - This is an e-mail software (you must know) El 26/06/15 a les 11:13, Julien Olivier ha escrit: Hi Bart, list, the thing with names is that it's better when they actually *mean* something. An experimented user will immediately know that Firefox is a web browser or that Evolution is an email program. But normal users will have no clue about it :) Some apps use names that provide clues as to what the purpose of the app is, like Rhythmbox or Gedit, but most don't. I think the recent trend among GNOME developers is that the app name is more like an internal code, not aimed at being used in the user experience. Maybe a good way to fix your problem would be to have a Launch in terminal entry in the app's dash icon, next to New Window and Add to favourites, possibly as a GNOME Shell extension ? Le vendredi 26 juin 2015 à 10:25 +0200, Bart Schouten a écrit : Quoting Narcis Garcia informat...@actiu.net mailto:informat...@actiu.net informat...@actiu.net: I agree with Keith Grider in a subject: please name all programs in the UI the same as the cli (...) if you want to diagnose the problem, you need to grep all over the internet to find out what the program name is to be able to launch from the command line to see what errors are occurringThis problem is worse with localized UI. Yes. It makes no sense to name something File Manager instead of Nautilus when Nautilus is a name you can love and a brand name. Kubuntu (KDE) just puts a like subtitle next to the real name in themenu to describe it. I don't think File Manager (or whatever) makes much sense and you cannot love it. Only the most mediocre computer users do not know what file manager or anything with a name is and some of them don't even know what the button web is supposed to do (in a kiosk computer). You can't really cater to them. Those users can't use Linux anyway. People who have to learn how to use a mouse and who cannot make double-clicks without moving the mouse too much (it happens all too common). I don't think that should be your target audience. A proficient computer user that cannot use a mouse and does not know what a file manager icon is supposed to do -- they can neveruse linux. They couldn't use Windows. You'd only give them a Mac, at best. I feel it is catering to the lowest common denominator. Personally I think Gnome would be at least twice as good if they got rid of those confusing names when there are good names for those programs already. Just my opinion, as well. Bart. El 25/06/15 a les 15:44, Keith Grider ha escrit: Hi, I have been running Gnome
Re: Download Link?
Thanks Patrick, It is, however, up to the writer to make the writed piece appealing to read ;-). Presentation is mostly everything :). If the release notes are summarized to provide what is essential, or important, or meaningful, and presented in a way as to be easily accessible (such as on the introduction page leading to the download link) then you can be sure many people will read that ;-). It's all common sense but sometimes duty seems to supersede what actually works ;-). Or people try too hard. And achieve too little. It is often a case of working very hard and not having the time and the ease to get right what actually comes through to a reader. Sometimes people are just mired in a way of doing things that is based on constantly working on a certain thing. And not having the distance to look back and observing it as a disinterested person. People are often stuck in a movement. And you have to stop moving in order to reconsider. That what you've been doing may not be the best way to do it. This applies to all of the open source world. You often have to stop moving. For just a little. For just a little while. Good luck with it. I'm hoping to see better crafted Linux pages ;-) :). (I wish I could also do some work myself some time) Regards, Bart. Quoting Patrik Bubák bub...@protonmail.ch: The artwork team has approached this issue and it will be remedied with the next website design that won't produce any clutter. Instead of being re-directed several times to the actual download (irritated the hell out of me too) the download will be the first thing you'll see. Users will enjoy and benefit from a lean and clean design that will help them navigate more efficiently. While we do agree reading the release notes is of high importance and should be everyone's priority, it will, however, always be up to the user if they read them. Stay tuned. Sent from [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.ch), encrypted email based in Switzerland. Original Message Subject: Re: Download Link? Time (GMT): May 23 2015 05:10:24 From: mailing-l...@bart.ahum.nl To: ubuntu-gnome@lists.ubuntu.com Also, The Please do read the release notes before anything. is in itself so verbose that it is like a release notes by itself, so now you have to read TWO release notes instead of one. Not very good. If you want to assume a user is going to be willing to read scores of text, you should not add to it by adding even more text to read. A user is sufficient with: These are the important notes to know for installing this version, in case you wonder: Lists notes Lists notes Go and download now. (By the way, as a matter of speaking). It should be more action oriented. The way you deal with girls. Provide short, concisive actions. Let a user flow along, rapidly. There is no time in this world ;-). And reading overly long documents doesn't help you with that, whoever has the patience for that? :P. By the way, my mental health is too bad to do it for you ;-) :P. Regards, B. Quoting Iban Eguia: Hi! If you go down the page you can select which version to download, and following the link you can see the downloads. 2015-05-22 22:37 GMT+02:00 Johny Why: hello i'm having trouble finding a torrent or download link here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/GetUbuntuGNOME am i looking in the wrong place? thx -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome
Re: Download Link?
Also, The Please do read the release notes before anything. is in itself so verbose that it is like a release notes by itself, so now you have to read TWO release notes instead of one. Not very good. If you want to assume a user is going to be willing to read scores of text, you should not add to it by adding even more text to read. A user is sufficient with: These are the important notes to know for installing this version, in case you wonder: Lists notes Lists notes Go and download now. (By the way, as a matter of speaking). It should be more action oriented. The way you deal with girls. Provide short, concisive actions. Let a user flow along, rapidly. There is no time in this world ;-). And reading overly long documents doesn't help you with that, whoever has the patience for that? :P. By the way, my mental health is too bad to do it for you ;-) :P. Regards, B. Quoting Iban Eguia iem10...@gmail.com: Hi! If you go down the page you can select which version to download, and following the link you can see the downloads. 2015-05-22 22:37 GMT+02:00 Johny Why johny...@gmail.com: hello i'm having trouble finding a torrent or download link here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/GetUbuntuGNOME am i looking in the wrong place? thx -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome
Re: Ubuntu GNOME demographics
If all you care about is distribution, shouldn't unique IP addresses to the website provide some info? You can never get full demographics because of the phone home issue, but nor should you want to. Visitor demographics to a website provide info enough. I like it how user data is a private thing (or usage) until people come out, and then it is a voluntary thing. A voluntary thing that can be called contribution or feedback, something that's a sure sign of love. User data or usage data is stale and doesn't mean so much, but love (and active involvement in one way or another (such as downloads or package updates of course)) means a lot more. So measure interfacement, not usage: usage is private. Regards, Bart Quoting Patrik Bubák bub...@protonmail.ch: Thanks Ali and Tim. Sent from [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.ch), encrypted email based in Switzerland. Original Message Subject: Re: Ubuntu GNOME demographics Time (GMT): May 20 2015 23:42:16 From: amjja...@gnome.org To: dark...@fastmail.fm CC: ubuntu-gnome@lists.ubuntu.com Hi everyone, On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 7:00 PM, Tim dark...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 20/05/15 18:39, Patrik Bubák wrote: Hey everyone, where could I find a tool (if any) that would show some statistics on how many users and from what backgrounds use Ubuntu GNOME? That info does not exist, tracking users of open source projects is next to impossible, atleast without including software that phones-home data, which we don't do. +1 Since I have joined the community in 2010 until now, I have tried so many times to find an answer to this Q but I have failed so far and I agree with Tim, it is next to impossible. I so much love statistics but sometimes, you can't get all what you want/wish. About the only data available is the number of downloads for packages on the gnome3-team ppa's (since they are not fragmented by mirrors) however I suspect only a small portion of our users use the PPa's. Otherwise its really left to completely useless metrics like distrowatch and numbers of social media followers Attached is a screenshot from Ubuntu GNOME Facebook Page. Please note, this is JUST what Facebook is showing and it is NOT 100% accurate and it will NOT give you any real data of our users at all. However, it is a good way to understand at least where our users are coming from :) Number of downloads will never ever tell anyone anything useful. I am one user who could download the same ISO 100 times per month/year, not to mention different versions. Even the data on Distrowatch is just for fun: http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity But then again, it is good to take a look and get some estimate data :) Oh, our Google+ page has more viewers than some other flavours but yes, that means nothing accurate, just a figure to give an estimate idea of how active/popular that channel is :) Sent from ProtonMail https://protonmail.ch, encrypted email based in Switzerland. -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome -- Best Regards, [Ali/amjjawad](https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad) Remember: All of us are smarter than any one of us. [Ubuntu GNOME OneStopPage](https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/OneStopPage) http://torios.org - http://amjjawad.net [](https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/GetUbuntuGNOME) -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome
Re: Contribution
Without being on a mailinglist it is going to be hard, right? I don't think people will be going out of their way to ensure you will have a way to contribute that coincides completely with your wishes, when it is outside of the regular workflow of the people here. Pardon my language, it is not exactly what I mean. And I'm also just a bystander. Don't be dissuaded, but I just wanted to voice that using a mailinglist might make your life easier and not using it might make your life harder but also for the people you are aiming to work with. ISO testing is a thing that is pretty much a disorganized or decentralized process, I believe. All the rest might require more cooperation. But do consider working with the regular workflow that people are used to. Regards, Bart. Quoting Philippe Loctaux loctauxphili...@gmail.com: Hello! I'd like to contribute to Ubuntu Gnome. I can do some packaging, I can do some tests for the ISO, I can maintain/update the website and the wiki, and I can manage social media. How can I get it touch with someone to start somewhere? Since I'm not a huge fan of mailing lists, you can contact me on Twitter: @ploctaux or send me an email at loctauxphili...@gmail.com Have a nice day! -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome
Re: Contribution
I'm sorry I said those things. But I told you not to get dissuaded. Being on a mailinglist is a great help even if you don't want to deal with it all the time. It makes you aware of the stuff that goes on without having to talk to people all the time. Check out this link: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds/92409/testcases And also this one: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds That might get you started on ISO testing. And my apologies again. I'm not an insider here. Get your hopes up, you might want to get it going anyway. Don't be dissuaded by the small things. Quoting Philippe Loctaux loctauxphili...@gmail.com: OK I see. Thanks for your help! Since I'm in an exam period, I'll see later for contributions Thanks anyway for your help! Best regards, Philippe Le dim. 3 mai 2015 13:43, Bart Schouten mailing-l...@bart.ahum.nl a écrit : Without being on a mailinglist it is going to be hard, right? I don't think people will be going out of their way to ensure you will have a way to contribute that coincides completely with your wishes, when it is outside of the regular workflow of the people here. Pardon my language, it is not exactly what I mean. And I'm also just a bystander. Don't be dissuaded, but I just wanted to voice that using a mailinglist might make your life easier and not using it might make your life harder but also for the people you are aiming to work with. ISO testing is a thing that is pretty much a disorganized or decentralized process, I believe. All the rest might require more cooperation. But do consider working with the regular workflow that people are used to. Regards, Bart. Quoting Philippe Loctaux loctauxphili...@gmail.com: Hello! I'd like to contribute to Ubuntu Gnome. I can do some packaging, I can do some tests for the ISO, I can maintain/update the website and the wiki, and I can manage social media. How can I get it touch with someone to start somewhere? Since I'm not a huge fan of mailing lists, you can contact me on Twitter: @ploctaux or send me an email at loctauxphili...@gmail.com Have a nice day! -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome
Re: improve the sound of gnome terminal
Well I am happy you are at least partial to the idea ;-). As to the other person: Just the fact that you change it instantly might mean it is not a good default. Defaults still matter especially if it is the presentation of your software, which it always is. Regards, Bart. Quoting Alfredo Hernández aldomann.desi...@gmail.com: That's just the way it is in stock GNOME. I don't know if it would be worth to patch the sound every time the respective GNOME components are updated. Having said that, the default bell sound is kinda annoying in some situations. I guess we have to wait to the technical team to tell if it is feasible to make such a change in the system without bringing too many headaches. Cheers, Alfredo. On 10 April 2015 at 10:32, Bart Schouten mailing-l...@bart.ahum.nl wrote: Hi, The little 'blip' in gnome Terminal that is configured by default as the bell is not a great choice. It *is* very pleasant that there is a default sound configured. That is better than Kubuntu, which does not have sounds configured, only visual notifications for background (unfocused) terminals. Personally, I feel the old beep that PC speakers had was better than this now. I am not in the position to select something else though (for you). I just want to say that it is up for improvement. And perhaps a nice thing to do. (Make a Doodle poll! :P). Regards, Bart Schouten. -- Ubuntu-GNOME mailing list Ubuntu-GNOME@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-gnome
