Re: patches to wesnoth, or rather general issue with substvar handling

[Emilio Pozuelo Monfort]

Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> Hi!
> 
>  First of all, thanks for the fast response, clearly appreciated.
> Sometimes I wish some of my upstreams would be as responsive as this
> "downstream". ;)
> 
> * Emilio Pozuelo Monfort <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-23 19:12:49 CEST]:
>> At one point in the past, libsdl-*1.2-dev packages didn't depend on the
>> libsdl1.2-dev package, causing a FTBFS. If you look at the changelog,
>> you will see:
>>
>> - Added libsdl1.2-dev to Build-deps (fix FTBFS)
>>
>>  -- Emilio Pozuelo Monfort <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:10:08 
>> +0100
>>
>> That was in Feisty, and it's fixed now, so we can remove it.
> 
>  Though, hmm, such a FTBFS never happend in Debian, was that a libsdl
> problem in ubuntu only? This is just a curious question, not meant as a
> finger pointing or anything else.

I don't know if it was in other places, but at least in Ubuntu it was present...

> 
>> But why would you remove it? You shouldn't rely on dependencies of
>> your build-dependencies, since in the future they can change, causing
>> a FTBFS.
> 
>  In general you are right. In this case it in fact clearly is a bug that
> happened in the libsdl packaging at some point, so adding it explicitly
> is a workaround for that breakage. It still makes me wonder a bit... but
> given that it doesn't really hurt appart from some few bytes in the
> source package I guess I could live with having it explicitly there
> instead of implicitly.
> 
>> If you have a dependency on a package, shouldn't you put it,
>> regardless of the other build-dependencies?
> 
>  You are right, just checked, src/video.hpp does #include "SDL.h"
> directly. I always thought it's just used indirectly, that's what I
> originally thought.
> 
>>>  The other thing which is pretty nasty and can give you headaches in
>>> cases you would need to do binary-only rebuilds without source
>>> changes is a false usage of substvars: Any package, especially Arch:
>>> all packages ... that has a versioned dependency on an Arch: any
>>> package ... will have to use the ${binary:Version} instead of the
>>> ${source:Version} to not create troubles for such uploads.
>> We don't do binary-only rebuilds AFAIK, but that isn't a excuse not to fix 
>> it ;)
> 
>  Thanks. ;)
> 
>> I mailed (more than once) to Isaac Clerencia, who is the Debian Maintainer, 
>> and
>> he told me he was going to add it. Maybe he forgot about it...
> 
>  Ah. For such cases, and given that more and more packages are team
> maintained these days, or even just in the case of a handover of
> packages, I would encourage to use the Debian BTS to send patches along.
> That way it is visible for everyone interested in the package, even if
> they are not listed in the package responsible section (like,
> Uploaders), and not get stuck and hidden in someone's private mailbox.  :)

Sure, I'll do that in the future. Sorry for not having (always) done it in the 
past.

> 
>> Isaac Clerencia wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 5 May 2007, Emilio Pozuelo Monfort wrote:
> 
>  Ah, may - that was a bit before the time I sort-of "hijacked" the
> package from Isaac noticing he was more than busy with other stuff and
> helped out bringing the 1.2.5 into the pool finally. Especially the kind
> of situation that could had been avoided with sending the patches with
> explenations to the Debian BTS.  ;)
> 
>> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9284696/wesnoth_1.2.6-1ubuntu%5B1%2C2%5D.debdiff
>> https://launchpad.net/bugs/113361
> 
>  This exact patch is one that is a broken approach to a not generated
> locale on the user's system. It enables that locale for wesnoth only,
> but if the user really wants to use that language they definitely should
> be guided to generate the system's locale for that language and not been
> worked around that by the --enable-dummy-locale switch.

For example in my case I use English in the system, but I sometimes want to run
wesnoth under another Spanish... should I really create a locale just for that?

> If that is used
> they most propably will file the exactly same bugreports against every
> other application that offers localization too.
> 
>  Another clean approach might be wesnoth check what system locales are
> available and just display those languages in the chooser that can be
> properly supported. I think I'll try to ask upstream about what they
> think about this approach.
> 
>> I'll remember to CC you next time I change wesnoth in Ubuntu!
> 
>  Please just send it to the BTS and not let it pile up in another's
> person personal mailbox. ;)

Sure, I'll do.

Take care,
Emilio

> 
>  So long,
> Rhonda
> 




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mythtv-theme-mythbuntu_0.20071015_source.changes is NEW

[Ubuntu Installer]

NEW: mythtv-theme-mythbuntu_0.20071015.tar.gz
NEW: mythtv-theme-mythbuntu_0.20071015.dsc

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list-management of ubuntu-mentors

[Stefan Potyra]

Hi,

currently the list admins of ubuntu-mentors are the MC members (who also 
moderate ubuntu-motu and motu-council). Though there are only a few 
moderation requests for -mentors, I guess it might make sense to have the 
mentors front desk moderate this list. What do you think?

Cheers,
   Stefan.


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Re: Joining the team

[Nicolas Valcarcel]

On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 16:43 -0700, Beth Aviv wrote:
> Hey,

Hello!
 
> I guess I fall into the "I know nothing about programming, but would
> like to help." I've been running with Ubuntu since April... a couple
> days after Feisty was released and have had a blast running it. I've
> been running Gutsy from tribe 4 and even though I've had issues, I
> always found it fun to work them out and learn from it. I've always
> learned something everything something went amiss.

Nice!  It's always nice to learn something. And there are lot of people
helping and knowing nothing about programming, you can Triage Bugs or do
some translations.

> I know there are problems, bugs, etc... and I would like to help out
> anyway I can. I try to be active on the forums when I'm able to help.
> It feels nice to know that you can help people fix their problems,
> too.

Yes they are, and they need our time. :D

> I am learning a bit about the CLI and programming... I've even picked
> up a Python book to read when I'm bored at work. Let me know where I
> can start =)

Well i think i have.

> Thanks,
> Beth Goldhammer
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Yo uso Software Libre y tu?


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Re: Joining the team

[Emmet Hikory]

Beth Aviv wrote:
> I know there are problems, bugs, etc... and I would like to help out anyway
> I can. I try to be active on the forums when I'm able to help. It feels nice
> to know that you can help people fix their problems, too.
>
> I am learning a bit about the CLI and programming... I've even picked up a
> Python book to read when I'm bored at work. Let me know where I can start =)

There are a couple wiki pages with lots of suggestions on
contributing (1,2).  Given your statement that you're interested in
helping with problems and bugs, I'd suggest that the bug squad would
be a good place to start (3).  If you adopt a couple python packages,
you'll likely become familiar with the sorts of issues that occur, and
find it easy to use your upcoming python skills to prepare a few
patches.

I'd also strongly recommend joining our IRC channels (4), as they
provide a good way to keep in touch for collaboration and
coordination, and are also a good place to ask questions if you are
unsure.  #ubuntu-bugs is the bug management coordination channel, to
discuss specific problems, appropriate bug handling, test cases, etc.
#ubuntu-motu is the universe development channel, to discuss packaging
arrangements, specific patches, and generally see what the universe
developers are doing.  If you've time for extra tasks, and have caught
up on your reading, the participants in #ubuntu-motu are usually happy
to suggest other things that you might try.

1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
3: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/GettingInvolved
4: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat

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Re: patches to wesnoth, or rather general issue with substvar handling

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Sarah Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-24 14:12:39 CEST]:
> Sheesh.  Was just a suggestion.  It wasn't a "You must do this, or
> else".  No need to start getting antagonistic at me.

 Sheesh, sorry for have you hit on your wrong foot. It wasn't a "I deny
to do so", so no need to get pouting at me. It was mere pointing out
that this approach is having its troubles and that I would like to get a
rethinking about this approach.

> You know, mails like this remind me of why some people do *not* send
> things back to Debian - even though they're aware of how it could be
> benefiting both distributions, and less work for them in the long run -
> they're aware of how the maintainer may well bite their head off after
> offering a suggestion.

 I am sorry if you felt like having your head bitten off, and I were
further away from that than you might think, really wonder how you get
that impression.

 But I won't turn this into a "you did wrong" "no, you" thread because
it's not helpful at all, neither to you nor me nor Ubuntu nor Debian
nor the relationship between us, and turning to personal accusings just
don't get it any further.

 So long, and thanks for jumping.
Rhonda

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Re: patches to wesnoth, or rather general issue with substvar handling

[Siegfried-Angel]

2007/10/24, Gerfried Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> And do you know about that from my part having to go look there
> for every single package every once in a while to see if there is
> something new is a quite broken approach

Long term in my opinion this looks indeed broken to me, but not the
fact that you have to check if there are patches, but that Debian's
systems don't make this easier. Perhaps it would be good if they would
send a message to the maintainer when there's a new patch, or have a
"general overview" page where, amongst other information, all patches
are displayed.

Well, just my 5 cent, but I understand that this isn't that easy to
change, so in fact at the moment informing the maintainer like you ask
for is probably the best option.

-- 
Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT)
Linux User #438657. Ubuntu User #11680.

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Re: patches to wesnoth, or rather general issue with substvar handling

[Sarah Hobbs]

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Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
>  Yes. And do you know about that from my part having to go look there
> for every single package every once in a while to see if there is
> something new is a quite broken approach, when having some amount of
> packages, especially since these patches often don't really apply to
> Debian like in the case of spl: 
> 
>  The person who does the changes in Ubuntu should propably pretty well
> know if something would be helpful to Debian as well and push it back
> to Debian in the sense of not having to put any further effort into
> maintaining the patch, which is a win-win situation for all involved
> parties.
> 
>> Of course, it's better if it gets forwarded to your bugtracker as well -
>> but where it doesn't, it's always worthwhile checking the patches
>> section for ubuntu patches.
> 
>  My perception on "always worthwhile" is most of the time either wasted
> time just to find nothing or something, like in the above mentioned
> case, that doesn't apply to Debian, which makes it a quite huge effort
> for little gain, where a simply notification from the person who changed
> something is a little effort for a big gain.
> 
>  So long,
> Rhonda
> 
Sheesh.  Was just a suggestion.  It wasn't a "You must do this, or
else".  No need to start getting antagonistic at me.

You know, mails like this remind me of why some people do *not* send
things back to Debian - even though they're aware of how it could be
benefiting both distributions, and less work for them in the long run -
they're aware of how the maintainer may well bite their head off after
offering a suggestion.

Just my 2c

Hobbsee
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Re: patches to wesnoth, or rather general issue with substvar handling

[Gerfried Fuchs]

* Sarah Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-24 13:46:27 CEST]:
> >  This thing propably won't need to get fixed for wesnoth because I plan
> > to introduce the wesnoth-all package in Debian too, suggested by
> > upstream (never heard anything about it from any MOTU that this patch is
> > hanging in there, though, which I would have expected out of courtsey
> > and getting changes pushed back upstream), but I thought I'd make you
> > aware of the issue in case this wrong approach is used in other MOTU
> > patches, too.
> 
> Just checking, but you do know about
> http://packages.qa.debian.org/w/wesnoth.html - the section that says
> Patches?  The "Patch from ubuntu for version 1.2.6-1ubuntu2" URL might
> be of particular interest?

 Yes. And do you know about that from my part having to go look there
for every single package every once in a while to see if there is
something new is a quite broken approach, when having some amount of
packages, especially since these patches often don't really apply to
Debian like in the case of spl: 

 The person who does the changes in Ubuntu should propably pretty well
know if something would be helpful to Debian as well and push it back
to Debian in the sense of not having to put any further effort into
maintaining the patch, which is a win-win situation for all involved
parties.

> Of course, it's better if it gets forwarded to your bugtracker as well -
> but where it doesn't, it's always worthwhile checking the patches
> section for ubuntu patches.

 My perception on "always worthwhile" is most of the time either wasted
time just to find nothing or something, like in the above mentioned
case, that doesn't apply to Debian, which makes it a quite huge effort
for little gain, where a simply notification from the person who changed
something is a little effort for a big gain.

 So long,
Rhonda

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Re: patches to wesnoth, or rather general issue with substvar handling

[Sarah Hobbs]

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>  This thing propably won't need to get fixed for wesnoth because I plan
> to introduce the wesnoth-all package in Debian too, suggested by
> upstream (never heard anything about it from any MOTU that this patch is
> hanging in there, though, which I would have expected out of courtsey
> and getting changes pushed back upstream), but I thought I'd make you
> aware of the issue in case this wrong approach is used in other MOTU
> patches, too.

Just checking, but you do know about
http://packages.qa.debian.org/w/wesnoth.html - the section that says
Patches?  The "Patch from ubuntu for version 1.2.6-1ubuntu2" URL might
be of particular interest?

Of course, it's better if it gets forwarded to your bugtracker as well -
but where it doesn't, it's always worthwhile checking the patches
section for ubuntu patches.

Hobbsee
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Re: StableReleaseUpdates: gnumed-client (0.2.6.3-1ubuntu0.1) available for testing

[Sarah Hobbs]

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Michael, apologies for the overly harsh mail.

I think I forgot about my Australian culture, and underestimated how my
shock would show through the mail. :)

Having spoken to various people on irc in #ubuntu-motu, I've seen some
things come out.

1.  Our documentation about SRU's needs fixing up.  I see a thread
already on the mailing list about this.  I thought that it was a
requirement to test packages yourself, before uploading it.

2.  The question of "how do we expect our users to test this stuff, when
we don't feel it's necessary to test it ourselves?" is still a valid
one.  If some of the more high-profile apps in universe got released
with buggy -proposed updates, most people would scream at us, and then
turn off -proposed repository - and then we'd have a lot more trouble
getting testing.

3.  In turn, i'll make sure that *I* read the SRU documentation too,
instead of going on the knowledge of it that i had from a few months ago.

4.  I never suggested that Michael should be thrown out for this - I
said that if a person keeps making these kind of uploads, then perhaps
we should look at removing their upload rights, if they've been educated
on what they're doing wrong, and then commit more offenses regardless.

Again, apologies for the harsh mail.

Hobbsee

Michael Bienia wrote:
> On 2007-10-23 15:20:55 +1000, Sarah Hobbs wrote:
>> Michael, what in hell were you thinking?
> 
> I was contacted by GNUmed upstream about that problem with the
> gnumed-client package in gutsy. I wanted to help them get the package
> working again.
> 
> But I see now that the way I did it was wrong and apologize for doing
> it. I should have uploaded the package to my PPA instead of -proposed.
> I won't do any SRU anymore where I'm not absolutely confident that all
> the testing I can do was done.
> 
> Please accept my apology.
> 
> Michael
> 
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Loïc Minier is a MOTU

[Daniel Holbach]

Hello everybody,

after lots of contributions and fantastic work on the Ubuntu Desktop
Team, Loïc joined the MOTU team today!

Please give him a warm welcome!

Have a nice day,
 Daniel



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Re: patches to wesnoth, or rather general issue with substvar handling

[Gerfried Fuchs]

Hi!

 First of all, thanks for the fast response, clearly appreciated.
Sometimes I wish some of my upstreams would be as responsive as this
"downstream". ;)

* Emilio Pozuelo Monfort <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-23 19:12:49 CEST]:
> At one point in the past, libsdl-*1.2-dev packages didn't depend on the
> libsdl1.2-dev package, causing a FTBFS. If you look at the changelog,
> you will see:
> 
> - Added libsdl1.2-dev to Build-deps (fix FTBFS)
> 
>  -- Emilio Pozuelo Monfort <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:10:08 
> +0100
> 
> That was in Feisty, and it's fixed now, so we can remove it.

 Though, hmm, such a FTBFS never happend in Debian, was that a libsdl
problem in ubuntu only? This is just a curious question, not meant as a
finger pointing or anything else.

> But why would you remove it? You shouldn't rely on dependencies of
> your build-dependencies, since in the future they can change, causing
> a FTBFS.

 In general you are right. In this case it in fact clearly is a bug that
happened in the libsdl packaging at some point, so adding it explicitly
is a workaround for that breakage. It still makes me wonder a bit... but
given that it doesn't really hurt appart from some few bytes in the
source package I guess I could live with having it explicitly there
instead of implicitly.

> If you have a dependency on a package, shouldn't you put it,
> regardless of the other build-dependencies?

 You are right, just checked, src/video.hpp does #include "SDL.h"
directly. I always thought it's just used indirectly, that's what I
originally thought.

> >  The other thing which is pretty nasty and can give you headaches in
> > cases you would need to do binary-only rebuilds without source
> > changes is a false usage of substvars: Any package, especially Arch:
> > all packages ... that has a versioned dependency on an Arch: any
> > package ... will have to use the ${binary:Version} instead of the
> > ${source:Version} to not create troubles for such uploads.
> 
> We don't do binary-only rebuilds AFAIK, but that isn't a excuse not to fix it 
> ;)

 Thanks. ;)

> I mailed (more than once) to Isaac Clerencia, who is the Debian Maintainer, 
> and
> he told me he was going to add it. Maybe he forgot about it...

 Ah. For such cases, and given that more and more packages are team
maintained these days, or even just in the case of a handover of
packages, I would encourage to use the Debian BTS to send patches along.
That way it is visible for everyone interested in the package, even if
they are not listed in the package responsible section (like,
Uploaders), and not get stuck and hidden in someone's private mailbox.  :)

> Isaac Clerencia wrote:
> > On Saturday, 5 May 2007, Emilio Pozuelo Monfort wrote:

 Ah, may - that was a bit before the time I sort-of "hijacked" the
package from Isaac noticing he was more than busy with other stuff and
helped out bringing the 1.2.5 into the pool finally. Especially the kind
of situation that could had been avoided with sending the patches with
explenations to the Debian BTS.  ;)

> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9284696/wesnoth_1.2.6-1ubuntu%5B1%2C2%5D.debdiff
> https://launchpad.net/bugs/113361

 This exact patch is one that is a broken approach to a not generated
locale on the user's system. It enables that locale for wesnoth only,
but if the user really wants to use that language they definitely should
be guided to generate the system's locale for that language and not been
worked around that by the --enable-dummy-locale switch. If that is used
they most propably will file the exactly same bugreports against every
other application that offers localization too.

 Another clean approach might be wesnoth check what system locales are
available and just display those languages in the chooser that can be
properly supported. I think I'll try to ask upstream about what they
think about this approach.

> I'll remember to CC you next time I change wesnoth in Ubuntu!

 Please just send it to the BTS and not let it pile up in another's
person personal mailbox. ;)

 So long,
Rhonda

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Joining the team

[Beth Aviv]

Hey,

I guess I fall into the "I know nothing about programming, but would like to
help." I've been running with Ubuntu since April... a couple days after
Feisty was released and have had a blast running it. I've been running Gutsy
from tribe 4 and even though I've had issues, I always found it fun to work
them out and learn from it. I've always learned something everything
something went amiss.

I know there are problems, bugs, etc... and I would like to help out anyway
I can. I try to be active on the forums when I'm able to help. It feels nice
to know that you can help people fix their problems, too.

I am learning a bit about the CLI and programming... I've even picked up a
Python book to read when I'm bored at work. Let me know where I can start =)

Thanks,
Beth Goldhammer
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Bugs in util-vserver in ubuntu

[Klaus Trainer]

Hello!

the tools installed with the Ubuntu-package util-vserver-0.30.212-1
mainly do not work at all. So I want to suggest adding Debian's
util-vserver-0.30.212-1 package to the universe repository. The
Debian-package works perfectly.


Here you can see that I'm not the first one to make that suggestion:

source:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-vserver/+bug/88595

fmyhr  wrote on 2007-07-05:

> I know this package is in "universe" which is unsupported.
> But this bug has been open for several months now with no > resolution, and 
> has caused me (and I know others) wasted hours.
> Can't someone simply put debian's util-vserver into the ubuntu
> universe repository until the problem with gcc 4.1 can be worked out?



Thank you in advance!


Greets
Klaus

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