Re: backintime: Where are the sources from?
Hey there, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote: >Am 27.08.2022 18:04 schrieb Little Girl: >> Launchpad is used by Ubuntu for managing projects, which can >> include storing the packages >I think that is the key information for me. It wasn't clear for me >that Launchpad is "official Ubuntu". Yep. It's owned by Canonical Ltd., which is the company that produces Ubuntu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launchpad_(website) -- Little Girl There is no spoon. -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: backintime: Where are the sources from?
Dear "Little Girl", thank you for your reply. Am 27.08.2022 18:04 schrieb Little Girl: Launchpad is used by Ubuntu for managing projects, which can include storing the packages I think that is the key information for me. It wasn't clear for me that Launchpad is "official Ubuntu". -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: backintime: Where are the sources from?
Hey there, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote: >What I want to know is how can I be sure where the ubuntu package >got its sources from. I assume it isn't upstream everytime! The commands and link that I had originally given you often provide links to the source locations. Also, the version number of a package may correspond with or be similar to an upstream version, which may provide a clue. But as Athos pointed out, there's no way to know whether that source will remain available or whether the developers have changed the source file after Ubuntu grabbed a copy of it or will change it at any time. It may sometimes be necessary to contact the maintainer for more information. >For example backintime: Upstream is at GitHub. But there are also >sources on Launchpad. That is what confuses me. GitHub is one of a number of places where upstream developers put the code that they work on. Launchpad is used by Ubuntu for managing projects, which can include storing the packages (sometimes fetched from GitHub and then packaged by Ubuntu) used in its releases. -- Little Girl There is no spoon. -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: backintime: Where are the sources from?
Hey there, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote: >Why does Ubuntu use Launchpad in that case? Why this step between? >Why not using the sources directly from ubstream? I believe that the packages are often taken from upstream, but Launchpad contains copies of the packages at the versions and in the approved state that they were in at the time of that Ubuntu release rather than their current upstream version or state. It's basically a snapshot of all of the approved and usable packages at a specific moment in time. This provides a solid reference, a reliable resource, helps with troubleshooting, and helps with decision-making for potential changes after release. There are probably other advantages that I missed. >And one sidequestion: Why does debian build its own package for >backintime? It is in Debian? Why not use the Debian package? Isn't >Ubuntu "based on Debian"? Every package in Ubuntu must meet the Ubuntu Packaging Guide standards and the current system of packaging or repackaging them ensures that they all do: https://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/ There are teams that do that sort of thing, but it can also be done by any individuals and then approved by folks from those Ubuntu teams, so this page might also be useful: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages -- Little Girl There is no spoon. -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: backintime: Where are the sources from?
On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 05:52:43AM +, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote: Dear Athos, thanks for explaining. Why does Ubuntu use Launchpad in that case? Why this step between? Why not using the sources directly from ubstream? While I am not in a position to give you a final answer to your question, given I was not, and am not involved in launchpad development, distributing software usually involves being able to reproduce builds, or rebuild a component with fixes or with fixed dependencies. It is also important to be able to trace components for security reasons. If you'd just fetch the source code for a given package from an external source and build a binary from it without caching these sources somehow, you would need to fetch the same sources again in case you need to patch or rebuild that software component. At this point, you would be trusting that this external source will always be available, and that it will never change. And one sidequestion: Why does debian build its own package for backintime? It is in Debian? Why not use the Debian package? Isn't Ubuntu "based on Debian"? Please, read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment; https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/ForDebianDevelopers; and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/ForUbuntuDevelopers -- Athos Ribeiro -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: backintime: Where are the sources from?
Dear Athos, thanks for explaining. Why does Ubuntu use Launchpad in that case? Why this step between? Why not using the sources directly from ubstream? And one sidequestion: Why does debian build its own package for backintime? It is in Debian? Why not use the Debian package? Isn't Ubuntu "based on Debian"? -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: backintime: Where are the sources from?
On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 07:28:32PM +, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote: Dear "Little Girl", thank you for your reply. But sorry, my question wasn't clear enough. I wasn't looking for upstream maintainers or the upstream repo. What I want to know is how can I be sure where the ubuntu package got its sources from. I assume it isn't upstream everytime! For example backintime: Upstream is at GitHub. But there are also sources on Launchpad. That is what confuses me. So I want to know on which sources the ubuntu package is based on. launchpad builders will build the package with the sources that were uploaded to (or pulled into) launchpad itself. If you want to fetch the sources used to build a package in the archive, you can use the pull-lp-source tool from ubuntu-dev-tools, which will fetch those sources from launchpad for you. If, instead, you want to know where the source that was pushed to launchpad came from, then you need to verify if this is a package (same package) available in Debian. If it is, e.g., the deb version of the package is > 0, for instance, foobar-2 or foobar-2ubuntu1, then the pristine sources (orig tarballs) should be the same as the ones in Debian. If otherwise, the package is only in Ubuntu, then you should use "Little Girl"s answer. You could also verify the source package for hints, such as debian/watch, debian/control, or debian/*.source, or even check if the package in question is a native one. In your example, backintime is currently sync'd in kinetic (1.3.2-0.1). The sources were pulled into launchpad from Debian. If you want to understand where the Debian maintainer for that package got the sources from, I suggest going through the hints above and Little Girl's reply. regards, -- Athos Ribeiro -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: backintime: Where are the sources from?
Dear "Little Girl", thank you for your reply. But sorry, my question wasn't clear enough. I wasn't looking for upstream maintainers or the upstream repo. What I want to know is how can I be sure where the ubuntu package got its sources from. I assume it isn't upstream everytime! For example backintime: Upstream is at GitHub. But there are also sources on Launchpad. That is what confuses me. So I want to know on which sources the ubuntu package is based on. -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
Re: backintime: Where are the sources from?
Hey there, c.bu...@posteo.jp wrote: >Let's take the universe package "backintime". Where do you get the >sources? Or better asked: How can I know myself? That will have to happen on a case-by-case basis. If it's installed, you can use the dpkg status option to get all sorts of information about the specified package: dpkg -s backintime You'll probably be most interested in the "Homepage" URL and the "Maintainer" or "Original-Maintainer" contact information, so you could search for those specifically with this command, which will turn up either of the maintainer entries: dpkg -s backintime | grep Maintainer Or this command to get the URL: dpkg -s backintime | grep Homepage Installed programs also often put a link to their website in the man page. The backintime program has such a link in its man page, which you can get to with this command: man backintime Or in the Ubuntu online man-page collection: https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/jammy/man1/backintime.1.html If the program you're interested in is not installed, you can use apt to show detailed information on all of the packages that start with the specified name: apt show -a backintime* Since you'll probably be most interested in the URL and the maintainer's contact information, so you could search for those specifically with this command to get either of the maintainer entries: apt show -a backintime* | grep Maintainer Or this command to get the URL: apt show -a backintime* | grep Homepage If you're still not finding the information you need, then it's time to do some additional research. You can look for the specified program on Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/backintime You'll see links on that page to the "Home page" and to "External downloads" which should lead you to the source or to a page that will take you to the source. There will also be links to "Maintainer" and "Top contributors" and "More contributors" on the same page in case you need to follow up with a human. Note that their contact information will only be provided when you log in.. If all of that fails (like for programs that aren't in the Ubuntu repositories), you can try Googling with the program's name to see if that gives you its website and/or one or more of its communities and/or some more information on where its source files are. Last, but not least, you can use Ubuntu's IRC client to log in and get live and relatively immediate (but not always) help in the #ubuntu channel. -- Little Girl There is no spoon. -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
backintime: Where are the sources from?
Hello, as a (becoming) upstream maintainer try to better understand the logic behind packaging in Ubuntu. I learned that distros like Debian, Manjar, Arch, etc taking the source for a package directly from upstream. Let's take the universe package "backintime". Where do you get the sources? Or better asked: How can I know myself? Do you take them from ubstream (the github repo itself) or do you take the source package from the Debian archive? Or I also found deb-files on launchpad. Maybe the latter is just für 3rd-party PPA and official/community Ubuntu? So I am a bit confused here. Thanks in advance Christian Buhtz -- Ubuntu-motu mailing list Ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
