Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[nick luigi eusebio]

Is it possible to still have click once the phones/tablets switch to snaps?I 
think this would be better in the early days because I doubt many developers in 
the Ubuntu Click store will immediately port their apps to snap especially 
those that are abandoned but still quite useful.

  From: Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com>
 To: mark <j.m.hol...@me.com> 
Cc: Ubuntu Phone <ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net>
 Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2017 10:25 PM
 Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets
   


On 1 January 2017 at 14:39, mark <j.m.hol...@me.com> wrote:

  Hi Jo-Erlend,
  Am I right in thinking that the Unity8 session for the Desktop is basically 
the promised Core and Snap of the upcoming Ubuntu Personal?

Mir, Unity 8 and the snap system is the same in phones and desktop. In 16.10, 
however, Mir and Unity 8 is provided as traditional debs rather than snaps. It 
would be very nice if they could provide them as snaps for the desktop in time 
for 17.04 and that we have the option to keep it rolling from that point. But I 
don't know anything about their specific plans. 

 And is Canonical's attention focused on the Desktop - presumably Unity8 - at 
the moment in preparation for 17.04? 

That's probably a big part of it, but it also makes sense to do little with the 
system that's being replaced and rather focus on the future system. Or rather; 
focusing the user-visible stuff on the user-visible system while focus on the 
new phone system is focused on the lower-level stuff such as porting hardware 
support and snapping software.

What's still needed to mesh Unity8 Desktop OS with Ubuntuphone? It really must 
be nearly there...? 


These are two different questions. For phones, we need to get at least the core 
apps ported to snap. Other apps should be ported too, or you would lose 
functionality in your phone. And the phones hardware support must be upgraded 
to a new kernel. Desktops have more requirements, such as good support for 
legacy software, which isn't very relevant on phones. Desktop might also 
require more features from the snap system. 

I don't know all the details, but from my limited understanding, we should be 
nearly there. Nearly is a relative term though. :)

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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

On 1 January 2017 at 15:40, nick luigi eusebio  wrote:

> Is it possible to still have click once the phones/tablets switch to snaps?
> I think this would be better in the early days because I doubt many
> developers in the Ubuntu Click store will immediately port their apps to
> snap especially those that are abandoned but still quite useful.
>
>
I can't imagine that the new system will support Click, but it's customary
in Ubuntu to support the old release for a while after a new version is
released. And since users most likely will have to flash their devices in
order to get the new version, an overlap is pretty much a requirement. In
other words, I think we can get the new system fairly soon, but that not
all users will be able to upgrade immediately, because not all apps will
have been ported yet. That will of course also be an incentive for app
developers to port their apps.

I think it's a good idea to have a gradual transition anyway, since there
are good chances for regressions when making changes such as these.
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

On 1 January 2017 at 14:39, mark  wrote:

> Hi Jo-Erlend,
>
> Am I right in thinking that the Unity8 session for the Desktop is
> basically the promised Core and Snap of the upcoming Ubuntu Personal?
>
Mir, Unity 8 and the snap system is the same in phones and desktop. In
16.10, however, Mir and Unity 8 is provided as traditional debs rather than
snaps. It would be very nice if they could provide them as snaps for the
desktop in time for 17.04 and that we have the option to keep it rolling
from that point. But I don't know anything about their specific plans.

> And is Canonical's attention focused on the Desktop - presumably Unity8 -
> at the moment in preparation for 17.04?
>
That's probably a big part of it, but it also makes sense to do little with
the system that's being replaced and rather focus on the future system. Or
rather; focusing the user-visible stuff on the user-visible system while
focus on the new phone system is focused on the lower-level stuff such as
porting hardware support and snapping software.

> What's still needed to mesh Unity8 Desktop OS with Ubuntuphone? It really
> must be nearly there...?
>

These are two different questions. For phones, we need to get at least the
core apps ported to snap. Other apps should be ported too, or you would
lose functionality in your phone. And the phones hardware support must be
upgraded to a new kernel. Desktops have more requirements, such as good
support for legacy software, which isn't very relevant on phones. Desktop
might also require more features from the snap system.

I don't know all the details, but from my limited understanding, we should
be nearly there. Nearly is a relative term though. :)
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[mark]

Hi Jo-Erlend,

Am I right in thinking that the Unity8 session for the Desktop is 
basically the promised Core and Snap of the upcoming Ubuntu Personal?


And is Canonical's attention focused on the Desktop - presumably Unity8 
- at the moment in preparation for 17.04?


What's still needed to mesh Unity8 Desktop OS with Ubuntuphone? It 
really must be nearly there...?


Cheers,



m




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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

But aren't you missing the point? Ubuntu Touch is about to be replaced and
the replacement cannot automatically support previews models. That support
has to be manually added to the new system. I think it is reasonable to
expect and even demand, that Canonical makes sure that the devices that
were sold with Ubuntu, are supported by the new system. From Canonical's
perspective, it would be really bad marketing not to do this, so I think
they will.

They shouldn't add support for new devices in the old system, knowing that
this will become obsolete a few months from now. That would be nonsensical.
What they should do, in my opinion, is to get the current devices ported
and make it as easy as possible for users to flash those devices to the new
system. Then they should allow current users to use the new system on their
devices for a while to confirm that everything is really working as they
should. After all, with massive changes, you always get the potential for
regressions. When things have been tested by actual users, then they should
add support for new devices to the new system.

Nobody has argued that there should be no new models, only that there
shouldn't be any new models right now.
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[miguel pires]

Thats correct. I think bq can make a image for any of is phones. Like a
image for M5 or M5.5...

Em 31/12/2016 16:30, "Marcin Xc" <gtride...@yahoo.com> escreveu:

> Wrong. Some phones like e4.5 are already unavailable even with Android. If
> things go this way, we will not be able to buy a phone where You can
> install Ubuntu. I think Nexus 4 is also a good example: You hardly find a
> new device and if You do, it will not be an official source. There should
> be an official set of compatible brand new phones that You can reinstall
> with a new system. I can't imagine You'd buy today as old phone as a new
> Nexus 4 for 400 euro (official sources), would You?
>
> Cheers
>
> Marcin
>
>
> --
> *From:* Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com>
> *To:* Matthias Apitz <g...@unixarea.de>; "ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net"
> <ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:06 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets
>
>
> Hi Jo-Erlend,
>
> Can you point, please, to one or two stores selling Ubuntu phones. Thanks
>
>
>
> A laptop becomes an Ubuntu laptop once Ubuntu is installed on it. A phone
> becomes an Ubuntu phone once Ubuntu is installed on it. The phones that
> were sold with Ubuntu pre-installed are still sold. Yes, you need to
> download and install Ubuntu, but that's no different than people installing
> Ubuntu on their desktops and laptops, which is what nearly everyone is
> doing and always have. The only significant difference is that the phone is
> officially supported, which your laptop probably isn't.
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Dominik Wnęk]

It's so true what Marcin says it hurts :-(

W sobota, 31 grudnia 2016 17:17:08 CET, Marcin Xc <gtride...@yahoo.com> 
napisałeś:
"One major part of the plan is to replace Click with Snap, 
which is necessary in order to achieve convergence."
I wrote about it many times here and I'm gonna write it again: 
there are still critical bugs in a system base and You talk 
about convergence: a car has 4 square wheels, but hey! Let's 
develop air conditioning! :-)
An example? A small and unimportant one? Bluetooth? Make 
bluetooth work then talk about convergence.


Cheers

Marcin

  From: Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com>
 To: Marcos Alonso <corro...@gmail.com> 
Cc: ubuntu-phone <ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net>

 Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets
   
Sure there is lack of information. That's not a problem; that's 
just software development. You rarely know exactly how long 
something is going to take, because you rarely know what you 
have to do or how quickly you can expect to know what you have 
to do. This is particularly true when you're talking about lots 
of different people working on lots of different projects. A big 
part of software development is simply investigating issues and 
learning. 

One major part of the plan is to replace Click with Snap, which 
is necessary in order to achieve convergence. One big milestone 
would then have to be that all core-apps have been converted to 
snap. That hasn't happened yet, but if you look at the code 
branches, you'll see that work is being done. If you read the 
snapcraft mailinglist, you'll see that people are working on 
solving issues. 

People just need to be allowed to do their jobs and if 
everything has to be explained in detail to the public, then 
that's work not being done. Time is time. 








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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Marcin Xc]

Wrong. Some phones like e4.5 are already unavailable even with Android. If 
things go this way, we will not be able to buy a phone where You can install 
Ubuntu. I think Nexus 4 is also a good example: You hardly find a new device 
and if You do, it will not be an official source. There should be an official 
set of compatible brand new phones that You can reinstall with a new system. I 
can't imagine You'd buy today as old phone as a new Nexus 4 for 400 euro 
(official sources), would You?

Cheers

Marcin

  From: Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com>
 To: Matthias Apitz <g...@unixarea.de>; "ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net" 
<ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net> 
 Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:06 AM
 Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets
   


Hi Jo-Erlend,

Can you point, please, to one or two stores selling Ubuntu phones. Thanks



A laptop becomes an Ubuntu laptop once Ubuntu is installed on it. A phone 
becomes an Ubuntu phone once Ubuntu is installed on it. The phones that were 
sold with Ubuntu pre-installed are still sold. Yes, you need to download and 
install Ubuntu, but that's no different than people installing Ubuntu on their 
desktops and laptops, which is what nearly everyone is doing and always have. 
The only significant difference is that the phone is officially supported, 
which your laptop probably isn't. 

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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Marcin Xc]

"One major part of the plan is to replace Click with Snap, which is necessary 
in order to achieve convergence."
I wrote about it many times here and I'm gonna write it again: there are still 
critical bugs in a system base and You talk about convergence: a car has 4 
square wheels, but hey! Let's develop air conditioning! :-)
An example? A small and unimportant one? Bluetooth? Make bluetooth work then 
talk about convergence.

Cheers

Marcin

  From: Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com>
 To: Marcos Alonso <corro...@gmail.com> 
Cc: ubuntu-phone <ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net>
 Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets
   
Sure there is lack of information. That's not a problem; that's just software 
development. You rarely know exactly how long something is going to take, 
because you rarely know what you have to do or how quickly you can expect to 
know what you have to do. This is particularly true when you're talking about 
lots of different people working on lots of different projects. A big part of 
software development is simply investigating issues and learning. 

One major part of the plan is to replace Click with Snap, which is necessary in 
order to achieve convergence. One big milestone would then have to be that all 
core-apps have been converted to snap. That hasn't happened yet, but if you 
look at the code branches, you'll see that work is being done. If you read the 
snapcraft mailinglist, you'll see that people are working on solving issues. 

People just need to be allowed to do their jobs and if everything has to be 
explained in detail to the public, then that's work not being done. Time is 
time. 



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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Krzysztof T]

Another thing that, approximately year ago, there was some UT news every
week (at websites like http://news.softpedia.com/cat/Linux or
omgubuntu.co.uk ), and now - Big silence.

2016-12-29 20:06 GMT+01:00 advocatux :

> El 29/12/16 a las 16:05, Fabio Colella escribió:
>
>> Hello,
>> I think you can find many answers here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/
>> 101489925843882654647/posts/1CzgkHJwURm
>>
>> Cheers, Fabio
>>
>>
> Hi Fabio, thank you for posting that link.
>
> That's exactly the kind of discussion I expect in this list, funny enough
> it happens in Google+
>
> Regards
>
>
> --
>
> advocatux
>
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[advocatux]

El 29/12/16 a las 16:05, Fabio Colella escribió:

Hello,
I think you can find many answers here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/
101489925843882654647/posts/1CzgkHJwURm

Cheers, Fabio



Hi Fabio, thank you for posting that link.

That's exactly the kind of discussion I expect in this list, funny 
enough it happens in Google+


Regards

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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[advocatux]

El 29/12/16 a las 14:00, gareth.fra...@cliftonts.co.uk escribió:
Ok, I think the problem here is that we have ticked along for at least 
the last year with regular updates on what is landing. Although I 
often don't take it in it is nice to see this regular reminder that 
things are happening. Ever since I first got my handset there has been 
a very clear statement about when the next OTA is due and what will be 
in it. On the launchpad page there has been and OTAxx tag with bugs 
marked against it to track this. Now there are no daily updates and 
this tag is not present at the moment.


So I can understand the confusion, it isn't that people expect 
constant updates so much as the fact that this familiar pattern of 
updates has broken down with no warning or explaination. I have to 
confess I was wondering too what is happening with the next OTA.


I have no doubt this is the Christmas season and probably people 
working on some very big changes so I'm not worried. I do think 
sarcastic posts like that which started this discussion are a bit 
distructive though sowing bad sentiment.


One gripe I do have is that this group seems to have all but ground to 
a halt recently. Where is the Ubuntu touch buzz now? Where is the 
discussion taking place? Any suggestions?




Yesterday was the equivalent to April, 1st here in Spain so I decided to 
write a little tongue in cheek post.


Whoever that clicked on the second link I provided could discover that 
quickly enough, because goo.gl/Ibruc2 resolves to 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools'_Day#Comparable_prank_days


The format of the message was a prank but the heart of the message is 
serious enough as this thread proves.


In an open source project, communication, and treating the community 
with care is essential. And you can see in this threat the community 
feels lost.


I'm personally just asking for some info, and some timeline.

Thank you everybody for your great work and Happy New Year!

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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[gareth . france]

Ok, I think the problem here is that we have ticked along for at least 
the last year with regular updates on what is landing. Although I often 
don't take it in it is nice to see this regular reminder that things are 
happening. Ever since I first got my handset there has been a very clear 
statement about when the next OTA is due and what will be in it. On the 
launchpad page there has been and OTAxx tag with bugs marked against it 
to track this. Now there are no daily updates and this tag is not 
present at the moment.


So I can understand the confusion, it isn't that people expect constant 
updates so much as the fact that this familiar pattern of updates has 
broken down with no warning or explaination. I have to confess I was 
wondering too what is happening with the next OTA.


I have no doubt this is the Christmas season and probably people working 
on some very big changes so I'm not worried. I do think sarcastic posts 
like that which started this discussion are a bit distructive though 
sowing bad sentiment.


One gripe I do have is that this group seems to have all but ground to a 
halt recently. Where is the Ubuntu touch buzz now? Where is the 
discussion taking place? Any suggestions?


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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

On 29 December 2016 at 11:29, Matthias Apitz  wrote:

> Just as background to let you know that I'm not some stupid newbie: I do
> run FreeBSD on my latops, even on a Chromebook, all compiled from svn
> rep, from the kernel up to KDE. I.e. I have certain idea about
> computers after 30 years of UNIX since PDP-11.
>

I would never refer to newbies as stupid just because they're newbies. In
fact, that would be a breach of the Code of Conduct.


> Re/ Ubuntu on phone, you cant just 'install Ubuntu' on every phone. Today
> this needs some binary container with Android kernel and device drivers
> in it, and all packed together in some image one must flash into the
> device.
>
>
Right. You also can't install Android on every phone. Is the point that
there are too few models officially supported or that there are too few
Ubuntu-branded phones in stores? Because these are very different things.


> There are on a very few devices supported at the moment, I
> think. That's why you need some OEM vendor putting this together for you,
> as BQ.com
> did in the past.
>

The goal was to get a few phones out there in order to make it easy for
people who were excited about Ubuntu on phones to contribute to the
project. We needed a couple of mid-range phones and a couple of high-end
phones. The idea is that today's mid-range will be tomorrow's low-end and
Ubuntu should work well on those devices. On the other hand, today's
high-end devices will be tomorrow's mid-range devices and Ubuntu should be
capable of making use of the fascinating things that kind of hardware can
provide.

The supported devices are not just random models; they each serve a
specific purpose. Our high-end phones are still high-end. Yes, there are
more powerful devices on the market, but they don't really allow us to do
anything new, so we don't need more high-end models to play with yet. Do
we? If so, why? Ubuntu for phones is in progress, not in mainstream. Most
people should not want an Ubuntu phone at this point in time. The product
is not at all ready for them. Developers and testers should, but if they
don't already have one, they have pretty good access to one.


> And no, you can not buy any new BQ devices any more,
> only perhaps a few in eBay or Anazon, or second hand devices.
>
>
 I wasn't aware of that. Obviously, if Bq doesn't sell the hardware at all
anymore, that's not an Ubuntu issue. It might be an argument for adding
support for new models of similar technical capabilities. The question is
whether or not it's worth it. If the goal is to give an Ubuntu phone as a
gift to a grandparent, I don't think it is. If developers are getting a
hard time coming across hardware, then it might be.

In any case, I would recommend waiting until the big changes are in place.
Existing phones must have their OS bumped to Ubuntu 16-series and have
their Click replaced with Snap, etc. That's a really big job and in my view
comparable to the pre-flip/post-flip phase.

Until all existing models have been successfully through this difficult
upgrade, I don't think it makes sense to add more models that must then go
through the same upgrade later. It's better to fix the software issues
before adding more complexity to deal with.

The great thing about convergence is that it means the software for phones
is less volatile than if it was a pure phone-OS. UT is an expense because
it's a separate system, but once convergence is achieved and it's in line
with the rest of Ubuntu, those expenses mostly goes away. That makes Ubuntu
for phones about as safe a bet as Ubuntu on desktops. And, you know; people
are still working in offices, using stationary computing equipment. That's
not going to change, so we would like them to have a nice OS running on
nice ARM hardware that just happens to run on the same hardware as phones.

It's ok to be impatient. I think we all are. But there's no reason to
worry. Things are going to be slow for phone users for a while, because
there is a million things that must be done before we can get the big
changes. But those things are being done and the big changes are coming.
Why would they not? Ubuntu for phones is a high-benefit, low-cost project
compared to anything remotely similar.

People on the internet has been writing about the demise of Ubuntu for more
than a decade. They were wrong then and they're wrong now.
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Walter Garcia-Fontes]

* Matthias Apitz, g...@unixarea.de [29/12/16 11:31]:
> think. That's why you need some OEM vendor putting this together for you, as 
> BQ.com
> did in the past. And no, you can not buy any new BQ devices any more,
> only perhaps a few in eBay or Anazon, or second hand devices.
> 
> It makes no sense saying, just download Ubuntu and install it. Sorry.

This is a fundamental feature of the arm architecture, you need an
image for each device. Just as when you go to the cyanogenmod page,
different images for every and other vendor and model of phones, and
of course nothing near to complete, there are a lot of devices which
don't have an image to flash.

For me, it is a miracle there are several devices with officially
supported images of ubuntu-touch.

-- 
Walter Garcia-Fontes


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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Thursday, December 29, 2016 a las 11:06:40AM +0100, Jo-Erlend Schinstad 
escribió:

> > Hi Jo-Erlend,
> >
> > Can you point, please, to one or two stores selling Ubuntu phones. Thanks
> >
> >
> A laptop becomes an Ubuntu laptop once Ubuntu is installed on it. A phone
> becomes an Ubuntu phone once Ubuntu is installed on it. The phones that
> were sold with Ubuntu pre-installed are still sold. Yes, you need to
> download and install Ubuntu, but that's no different than people installing
> Ubuntu on their desktops and laptops, which is what nearly everyone is
> doing and always have. The only significant difference is that the phone is
> officially supported, which your laptop probably isn't.

Just as background to let you know that I'm not some stupid newbie: I do
run FreeBSD on my latops, even on a Chromebook, all compiled from svn
rep, from the kernel up to KDE. I.e. I have certain idea about
computers after 30 years of UNIX since PDP-11.

Re/ Ubuntu on phone, you cant just 'install Ubuntu' on every phone. Today
this needs some binary container with Android kernel and device drivers
in it, and all packed together in some image one must flash into the
device. There are on a very few devices supported at the moment, I
think. That's why you need some OEM vendor putting this together for you, as 
BQ.com
did in the past. And no, you can not buy any new BQ devices any more,
only perhaps a few in eBay or Anazon, or second hand devices.

It makes no sense saying, just download Ubuntu and install it. Sorry.

matthias

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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[miguel pires]

Hi Jo-Erlend,
Is not the same thing. I can install ubuntu in almost any hardware, and it
works, but Ubuntu Phone i can't do that!!! Only on that specific phones!
Don't get me wrong, I was one of many that put my money in the Edge
crowdfundig, and I by the first Ubuntu phone to. I'm expecting, like
everyone I think info about this, because I wana by a Ubuntu Phone. Lets
say that for 2017 is going to be out a new phone way I'm going to by a
Pro5? But if is not going to append a new phone, ok I will by a Pro5 and
put Ubuntu on it. That is what i wana know, because, like time is money,
money is "finito" to, so or I keep my money for a better product investment
in 2017, or I will by an "old" phone to invest my time help you and the
others developers make Ubuntu Phone better.


2016-12-29 10:06 GMT+00:00 Jo-Erlend Schinstad <
joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com>:

>
> Hi Jo-Erlend,
>>
>> Can you point, please, to one or two stores selling Ubuntu phones. Thanks
>>
>>
> A laptop becomes an Ubuntu laptop once Ubuntu is installed on it. A phone
> becomes an Ubuntu phone once Ubuntu is installed on it. The phones that
> were sold with Ubuntu pre-installed are still sold. Yes, you need to
> download and install Ubuntu, but that's no different than people installing
> Ubuntu on their desktops and laptops, which is what nearly everyone is
> doing and always have. The only significant difference is that the phone is
> officially supported, which your laptop probably isn't.
>
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Stephen]

You can still buy a new Meizu Pro 5 (Flyme), and install Ubuntu.

I think that is the best option.


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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Walter Garcia-Fontes]

* Matthias Apitz, g...@unixarea.de [29/12/16 07:06]:
> Can you point, please, to one or two stores selling Ubuntu phones. Thanks

Just at this moment there is one BQ 4.5 second hand and 2 BQ M10
tablets second hand on offer in Amazon Spain:

https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91=search-alias%3Daps=BQ+Ubuntu

Also, right now it is reported that the best option to have an Ubuntu
Phone is to buy a Meizu Pro 5 and flash Ubuntu on it. 

I bought a BQ E5 with Ubuntu, new in Amazon Spain two months ago.

-- 
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Thursday, December 29, 2016 a las 01:37:47AM +0100, Jo-Erlend Schinstad 
escribió:

> The phones are still officially supported and in stores. You mention a few
> bugs that you think are important. ...

Hi Jo-Erlend,

Can you point, please, to one or two stores selling Ubuntu phones. Thanks

matthias

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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

The phones are still officially supported and in stores. You mention a few
bugs that you think are important. I'm not saying they're not important,
but there are many important bugs that must be fixed. Recording 4K video is
nice, but definitely nowhere near my top-ten list of bugs.

We know Ubuntu for phones needs to be ported to Snap and that's going to
take a lot of time, but you should expect many issues to be fixed in the
process. You mention mail notifications, for instance. If that's something
that should be supported on desktops as well, don't you think this might
best be fixed using a snap interface? Well, in that case, how should it be
fixed on phones before phones support snap? Should they make that software
now and just discard it a few months from now? That would be a horrible use
of time.

Foundations are important.
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

Sure there is lack of information. That's not a problem; that's just
software development. You rarely know exactly how long something is going
to take, because you rarely know what you have to do or how quickly you can
expect to know what you have to do. This is particularly true when you're
talking about lots of different people working on lots of different
projects. A big part of software development is simply investigating issues
and learning.

One major part of the plan is to replace Click with Snap, which is
necessary in order to achieve convergence. One big milestone would then
have to be that all core-apps have been converted to snap. That hasn't
happened yet, but if you look at the code branches, you'll see that work is
being done. If you read the snapcraft mailinglist, you'll see that people
are working on solving issues.

People just need to be allowed to do their jobs and if everything has to be
explained in detail to the public, then that's work not being done. Time is
time.
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Marcos Alonso]

Hi Jo-Erlend.

The assumption I was referring to: 'If there are no important changes and
everything is going according to plan, then why would you expect an
official statement?'

Everybody knows of convergence purpose but, which are the plan milestones
and its dates to know that everything is on plan?

To me, there is the lack of information.

Regards
Marcos

El miércoles, 28 de diciembre de 2016, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <
joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com> escribió:
> If you can specify what assumption you would like confirmed, I'll try to
dig it up. I can't know what you know and what you don't know.
>
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Krzysztof T]

Hi Jo-Erlend,

2016-12-28 16:47 GMT+01:00 Jo-Erlend Schinstad <
joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com>:

> But you shouldn't need an Ubuntu Edition model. You know it works, so you
> can just get the phone and install Ubuntu on it. But this would be a very
> bad time to sell Ubuntu phones, considering there are large and difficult
> changes coming. This is not the time to attract newbies to Ubuntu on phones
> as it's still perfectly possible that people will have to flash their
> devices at some point.
>
> I do wonder what kind of answers people are looking for. Surely, everyone
> on this list knows that the goal is to create a converged OS. That means we
> don't want an OS for phones, but an OS for computers. A phone is just
> another computer in that model. But this also means focus will be shifted
> back and forth between different parts of the system.
>
> For phones, focus should be on moving to 16.04LTS, replacing Click with
> Snap and things like that. But it is also important to get desktops to
> Unity 8 and that seems to be the primary focus now. That makes sense to me,
> because the people working on foundations aren't necessarily the same
> people who are working on UX and you might not want to work on foundations
> and UX at the same time. And, of course, the majority of the Ubuntu
> community uses desktops and they're eager to get a new version of their
> desktop as well. That is also a good thing for the phone and tablet
> community, because more users mean bugs come out more easily.
>
> If there are no important changes and everything is going according to
> plan, then why would you expect an official statement?
>

I just want to know if there will be some new phone release ( want to buy
some). I want to know when bugs like [1] (because someone cheated us) or
[2] (marked as critical, 'bug' has almost year and it's really important to
get fix for it; with lack of this feature, developing some kind of apps is
almost impossible) or [3] and [4] ('bug' for almost 2 yearsREALLY
important) will be fixed.

[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1471666
[2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-application-lifecycle/+bug/1532221
[3] https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1494225
[4] https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bug/1421923



>
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

If you can specify what assumption you would like confirmed, I'll try to
dig it up. I can't know what you know and what you don't know.
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Marcos Alonso]

Hi Jo-Erlend.

Does anybody from Ubuntu confirmed your assumption?

I have never read it (tough I have not read everything) and this is why we
expect some information from Ubuntu.

We have "sacrified" some of our phone functionalities to happily  support
UT. We just want some message!

Regards.

El miércoles, 28 de diciembre de 2016, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <
joerlend.schins...@ubuntu.com> escribió:
> But you shouldn't need an Ubuntu Edition model. You know it works, so you
can just get the phone and install Ubuntu on it. But this would be a very
bad time to sell Ubuntu phones, considering there are large and difficult
changes coming. This is not the time to attract newbies to Ubuntu on phones
as it's still perfectly possible that people will have to flash their
devices at some point.
>
> I do wonder what kind of answers people are looking for. Surely, everyone
on this list knows that the goal is to create a converged OS. That means we
don't want an OS for phones, but an OS for computers. A phone is just
another computer in that model. But this also means focus will be shifted
back and forth between different parts of the system.
>
> For phones, focus should be on moving to 16.04LTS, replacing Click with
Snap and things like that. But it is also important to get desktops to
Unity 8 and that seems to be the primary focus now. That makes sense to me,
because the people working on foundations aren't necessarily the same
people who are working on UX and you might not want to work on foundations
and UX at the same time. And, of course, the majority of the Ubuntu
community uses desktops and they're eager to get a new version of their
desktop as well. That is also a good thing for the phone and tablet
community, because more users mean bugs come out more easily.
>
> If there are no important changes and everything is going according to
plan, then why would you expect an official statement?
>
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad]

But you shouldn't need an Ubuntu Edition model. You know it works, so you
can just get the phone and install Ubuntu on it. But this would be a very
bad time to sell Ubuntu phones, considering there are large and difficult
changes coming. This is not the time to attract newbies to Ubuntu on phones
as it's still perfectly possible that people will have to flash their
devices at some point.

I do wonder what kind of answers people are looking for. Surely, everyone
on this list knows that the goal is to create a converged OS. That means we
don't want an OS for phones, but an OS for computers. A phone is just
another computer in that model. But this also means focus will be shifted
back and forth between different parts of the system.

For phones, focus should be on moving to 16.04LTS, replacing Click with
Snap and things like that. But it is also important to get desktops to
Unity 8 and that seems to be the primary focus now. That makes sense to me,
because the people working on foundations aren't necessarily the same
people who are working on UX and you might not want to work on foundations
and UX at the same time. And, of course, the majority of the Ubuntu
community uses desktops and they're eager to get a new version of their
desktop as well. That is also a good thing for the phone and tablet
community, because more users mean bugs come out more easily.

If there are no important changes and everything is going according to
plan, then why would you expect an official statement?
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Wednesday, December 28, 2016 a las 08:36:57PM +0800, 葉磊 escribió:

> Although I'm as eager as you are about ubuntu phone, BQ's website still
> sells ubuntu devices.
> https://www.bq.com/en/aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition

Sorry, I was not precise enough. I was talking about phones, like the
E4.5.

With the M10 (which I own too) you can't make normal phone calls, only
SIP calls.

matthias


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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[advocatux]

El 28/12/16 a las 13:36, 葉磊 escribió:

Although I'm as eager as you are about ubuntu phone, BQ's website still
sells ubuntu devices.
https://www.bq.com/en/aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition



No, it doesn't. As you can see in 
https://store.bq.com/en/ubuntu-edition-aquaris-m10 both Aquaris M10 FHD, 
and HD, Ubuntu Edition models are "out of stock".


Regards


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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[葉磊]

Although I'm as eager as you are about ubuntu phone, BQ's website still
sells ubuntu devices.
https://www.bq.com/en/aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition

2016-12-28 19:40 GMT+08:00 Matthias Apitz :

> El día Wednesday, December 28, 2016 a las 12:23:29PM +0100, Krzysztof T
> escribió:
>
> > Nice! :)
> > Sad Sad is that the Ubuntu Community takes a huge part in the development
> > of the Ubuntu OS, and in return Canonical gives us terribly small piece
> of
> > information and no official statements regarding UT.
>
> (Btw: I have not opened the posted URLs because I never do so if someone
> who I do not know post such stuff.)
>
> What makes me as well (or even more) worry, is BQ.com. They do not sell
> devices with Ubuntu anymore and do not say anything about future plans.
> And they could sell, because I know folks asking for and it took me 4
> weeks to get one here in Germany as a substitute for a broken device.
>
> matthias
>
> --
> Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎
> +49-176-38902045
> No to the €! Out of this imperialistic EU! Out of the imperialistic NATO
> war alliance!
> ¡No al €! ¡Fuera de esta UE imperialista! ¡Fuera de esta OTAN imperialista!
> N€IN zum €! Raus aus dieser imperialistischen EU! Raus aus dieser
> imperialistischen NATO!
>
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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Wednesday, December 28, 2016 a las 12:23:29PM +0100, Krzysztof T 
escribió:

> Nice! :)
> Sad Sad is that the Ubuntu Community takes a huge part in the development
> of the Ubuntu OS, and in return Canonical gives us terribly small piece of
> information and no official statements regarding UT.

(Btw: I have not opened the posted URLs because I never do so if someone
who I do not know post such stuff.)

What makes me as well (or even more) worry, is BQ.com. They do not sell
devices with Ubuntu anymore and do not say anything about future plans.
And they could sell, because I know folks asking for and it took me 4
weeks to get one here in Germany as a substitute for a broken device.

matthias

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Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Introducing Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets

[Krzysztof T]

Nice! :)
Sad Sad is that the Ubuntu Community takes a huge part in the development
of the Ubuntu OS, and in return Canonical gives us terribly small piece of
information and no official statements regarding UT.

Best regards,
Krzysztof T.

2016-12-28 0:09 GMT+01:00 advocatux :

> When you ask about Ubuntu Phone's future or about the timeline for OTA-15,
> are you tired of the Sound of Silence (tm) for an answer?
>
> Suffer no more because here and now we're introducing Canonical's Ubuntu
> Crickets to you.
>
> Our smart algorithm always gives you a suitable answer:
>
> * Hey what's the plan for Ubuntu Phone's future?
>
>  ***crickets***
>
> * Can someone tell me the timeline for OTA-15?
>
>  ***crickets***
>
> * Are going to be new Ubuntu Phone models?
>
>  ***crickets***
>
>
> Wonderful, isn't it?
>
> Here you have a brief tutorial to master the art of crickets [0].
>
> But if you don't want to do it yourself, don't wait any more and install
> our shiny Canonical's Ubuntu Crickets app. It's FREE! [1].
>
> Brought to you by Vow of Silence Developers Brotherhood.
>
> Best Wishes.
>
> The Brotherhood President.
>
> Mark Cricketworth
>
> December, 28th, 2016
>
>
> [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htSYVnHKq_Q
> [1] goo.gl/Ibruc2
>
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