Re: Policy: filing bugs against Ubuntu packages instead of upstream projects

[Phill Whiteside]

Hi Charles,

we have similar with ubuntu-quality and ubuntu-bugs. Just as I saw with
ubuntu-release back to ubuntu-quality and the link back to lubuntu-qa team.
How much is too much information.

Kindest regards,

Phill.


On 30 November 2013 16:26, cprofitt  wrote:

> On Sat, 2013-11-30 at 10:46 -0500, cprofitt wrote:
> > I just want to make sure that I understand the summary of what is being
> > discussed with Michal.
> >
> > The Unity8 team currently is not getting notification on bugs, nor do
> > they have the rights to triage, etc. bug related to Unity.
> >
> > Is that accurate?
> >
> > If that is accurate then I would think we need to do as Steve suggested
> > and get them on-boarded to the bug squad team. Do we have some people
> > that can work with them to get them trained up?
> >
> > Nicholas:
> >
> > Can you facilitate that?
> >
> > Charles
>
> I forgot to add that we may also need to get members of the Unity8 team
> on Ubuntu Bug Control as well if they want to have full control of being
> able to set bugs to triage, etc.
>
> I often link the two teams, but they are to distinct teams.
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> --
> Ubuntu-quality mailing list
> Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
>



-- 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
-- 
Ubuntu-quality mailing list
Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality

Re: Have good luck ♣

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

El 26/11/13 17:43, Randall Ross wrote:

On 13-11-24 05:18 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:
Please have a look at the *search traffic* for ubuntu.com in Alexa 
 and you'll notice, since 
this traffic has increased about a 50% for the last couple of months 
compared to any previous epoch, the world is now paying more 
attention to Ubuntu than ever.


There's another important fact, that is *experience* shows good 
software usually takes ten years 
; and the 
development release we have now will be launched in the tenth 
anniversary of this community.


So all this aspects suggests me we're now in the *turning point*, so 
take a deep breath and good do ♣ 






Alberto,

That is an excellent find! We are on the cusp of "the next big thing" 
for sure, and thank you very much for sharing the good news.


We need to get the word out in a very loud way... Let's come up with a 
strategy to do that.


Cheers,
Randall.




*What users really appreciate*

For a long time I have suspected that one *key aspect* for Ubuntu to be 
successful as computing platform is to make simple how to handle *bugs*, 
and to explicit *values* of this community and make look more human.


But this was suppositions only, so I decided to ask *Debian* users 
directly why they prefer their operating system and community; in order 
us to leak this same hits into Ubuntu and spread them into the world. 
The answers from the survey 
 
can be summarized as this:


   WHY DEBIAN USERS PREFER DEBIAN OVER UBUNTU (12 USERS)

   - Because being more protected from power abuse (9)
   - Because being technically more generic (9)
   - Because being rock solid (8)

   - Because applications interoperate well in any combination (5)

   - Because of not using aubergine in the color scheme (2)
   - Because support of been of higher quality (1)
   - Because what you learn can be used many time latter (1)

   Conclusion: because is perceived to be more robust, simple and trustable


*
What will make success*

So what this suggests me *what's important* now is:

 * To briefly but clearly communicate why *decisions* are made (what is
   not the same as entering a discussion about them).
 * Not to judge *behaviours* of developers outside Ubuntu, but rather
   to let them explain themselves by just asking them questions. We
   will better by recognizing the freedom of making horrible decisions
   (and also behaving bad), because this is the shortest path for them
   to realize their own problems. When noise stops melody sounds.
 * To show off in video why *members* of Ubuntu like to be part of this
   community.
 * Till we have a reliable 14.04 release, according to the error
   tracker , to empower community and
   processes around *bug management*.


*
The drawing room is the first noticed in the doctor*

Because of this points I have already written a plan 
, 
with the help and comments from the Papercuts Ninjas 
, to make the "One Hundred 
Papercuts " project to act 
according to them. This plan basically takes this *steps*:


1. Making bug *triaging *simple for everyone, by optimizing
   documentation and work flux for the average users
   .
2. Making a *video* with 5 seconds shorts of Ubuntu members saying why
   they like Ubuntu.
3. *Spreading* the project around the globe as one intended for human
   being of all conditions comitted to:

 * Making *Ubuntu* shine.
 * Reducing papercuts
    to
   make the *user experience* a pleasure.
 * *Learning* about one of the most pioneering projects in the world.
 * Making *others* achieve these goals.


If done cleanly, I expect all of this to be of *interest* for many 
people from universities; and also those who care of a libre culture, 
Internet, software and society. Or just those that are joyful with 
computing, as me ☺




*A small but differentiating action*

Luckily the hardest action for me to accomplish is also the easiest for 
anyone else as group: if you just can *mention* into the contacts 
 
a person, team, company or media that will be perhaps interested; it 
will make a tremendous d

Re: Policy: filing bugs against Ubuntu packages instead of upstream projects

[cprofitt]

On Sat, 2013-11-30 at 10:46 -0500, cprofitt wrote:
> I just want to make sure that I understand the summary of what is being
> discussed with Michal.
> 
> The Unity8 team currently is not getting notification on bugs, nor do
> they have the rights to triage, etc. bug related to Unity.
> 
> Is that accurate?
> 
> If that is accurate then I would think we need to do as Steve suggested
> and get them on-boarded to the bug squad team. Do we have some people
> that can work with them to get them trained up?
> 
> Nicholas:
> 
> Can you facilitate that?
> 
> Charles

I forgot to add that we may also need to get members of the Unity8 team
on Ubuntu Bug Control as well if they want to have full control of being
able to set bugs to triage, etc.

I often link the two teams, but they are to distinct teams.

Charles



-- 
Ubuntu-quality mailing list
Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality

Re: Policy: filing bugs against Ubuntu packages instead of upstream projects

[cprofitt]

On Sat, 2013-11-30 at 00:06 -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Hi Michał,
> Well, you say it's not ideal; but we are all working together toward a
> common goal of producing a coherent OS, and there are benefits to having
> consistent policies for bug tracking across the various components of that
> OS.  I think the members of your team (and other upstream teams) should
> easily be able to meet the requirements for the bugsquad team, and
> participate in bug triage for your packages on an equal footing with the
> rest of the community.
> 

I just want to make sure that I understand the summary of what is being
discussed with Michal.

The Unity8 team currently is not getting notification on bugs, nor do
they have the rights to triage, etc. bug related to Unity.

Is that accurate?

If that is accurate then I would think we need to do as Steve suggested
and get them on-boarded to the bug squad team. Do we have some people
that can work with them to get them trained up?

Nicholas:

Can you facilitate that?

Charles


-- 
Ubuntu-quality mailing list
Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality

Re: Policy: filing bugs against Ubuntu packages instead of upstream projects

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

If you want to help by triaging bugs and setting its importance, 
alternative you can do for the "One Hundred Papercuts 
" project by joining the open 
"Papercuts Ninjas " team. 
Since this project list easy to manage bugs 
 we are now 
testing what will happen if anyone can do triaging for them.


Regards ☕


El 29/11/13 22:17, Thomas Ward escribió:

Forgive me for my comments, but let me backtrack a little on the email
chain a little and make a comment here...

I see that Ursula said there's a policy to get teams added to the
bugsquad team if they're upstream teams.  That's not exactly correct,
you probably meant "bugcontrol" based on the sentence previous to
that.

Let me make a distinction here, ignoring the fact that bugsquad is
being merged into QA:  As the permissions layout currently stands for
Ubuntu bugs, Bug Squad (identified as "bugsquad" by your messages) has
no additional permissions beyond a standard user who is not directly
or indirectly a member of Bug Control.  Bug Control (i.e.
"bugcontrol") has the additional permissions.  Bug Squad is a group of
people who are volunteer triagers, and they try and get bugs to
"Triaged" state, but they actually ask Bug Control members to set
Triaged and the importance.

The distinction you need to make there, Michal and Ursula, is that
"bugsquad" is NOT "bugcontrol", as they are separate entities, and
that you would need "bugcontrol" access to set "triaged" or an
importance.  I apologize if it seems that I'm nitpicking your
terminology, however the distinction between the two groups as
mentioned in your emails needs to be made, and I don't want to confuse
the two teams when you discuss them.

--

As for the issue where you can't set "Triaged" or an importance on
ubuntu package bugs... I may not be "involved" on the Ubuntu Phone
project, but I am a member of Bug Control, and a member of Bug Squad.
One of the things I try and do is to help set "Triaged" and a bug's
importance where needed for anyone who needs that help (and where they
can justify the change in status and importance).  If you would like
me to assist you, at least in the interim until there is some other
solution, I can try and help by setting "Triaged" where necessary for
the bugs, so long as they are: (1) against a package in the
Repositories (i.e. "unity8 (ubuntu)" or similar as shown on
Launchpad), and (2) not already set as "In Progress" with someone
assigned to the bug (which indicates that person is already working on
fixing the bug, according to typical bug triage guidelines and
workflows).

I tend to lurk #ubuntu-bugs and #ubuntu-quality on IRC (and most
recently, #ubuntu-touch but that's usually hiding under the many other
channels i'm joined to) if you need to reach me (nickserv account is
"teward", my current username is "TheLordOfTime" though), but email
works too.  At least, until, you solve the issue of one or a handful
of people working on the project getting the access to do so.

(As well, other bugcontrollers are in #ubuntu-bugs and are willing to
set statuses and importance where needed, under the same condition
that you should be able to support the change in status an importance.
  If you ask in #ubuntu-bugs and probably a few other channels, someone
will probably eventually help you set "Triaged" and the bug's
importance.)

--
Thomas
LP: ~teward

(this message was sent to ubuntu-quality, ubuntu-phone, and
ubuntu-devel, however it will need approval to be posted to -phone and
-devel.  this message should automatically appear on -quality)

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:11 AM, Michał Sawicz
 wrote:

On 27.11.2013 19:06, Ursula Junque wrote:


On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Michał Sawicz
mailto:michal.saw...@canonical.com>> wrote:



 I just tried to file a bug against Ubuntu (unity8)¹, unfortunately I
 can't set the status to 'Triaged', or decide the importance. So,
 well... I can't triage Ubuntu (unity8) bugs.
According to ogra this can be solved by adding your team to the
bugcontrol team. There's a policy in place that allows teams to be added
to the bugsquad one, if they're upstreams. Ogra, please enlighten us. :)


Right, I'm just not really comfortable with using a bucket approach, where
suddenly all of us are bugsquad members. Thought membership in that team had
some purpose, which it would, more or less, lose this way.



 AFAICT, we also don't get notified about new Ubuntu (unity8) bugs,
 even though I added a subscription for my team².
I'm the only person subscribed to the ~touch-packages team and I get ALL
EMAILS (it's a lot!). Maybe check the unity8 team email's settings to
see if you are set to receive emails or if that's disabled for you
(AFAIK being subscribed != receiving emails).


I even successfully sent (and received) a test e-mail via "contact this
team". Not sure what else I can try, bu

Re: Policy: filing bugs against Ubuntu packages instead of upstream projects

[Phill Whiteside]

Hi,

whilst I'm still keeping my head down; I've forwarded this to Nicholas as
there has been conversation of merging QA and bug team and I think he
should be aware of the conversation.

Kindest regards,

Phill.


On 30 November 2013 06:06, Steve Langasek  wrote:

> Hi Michał,
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:33:00AM +0100, Michał Sawicz wrote:
> > On 26.11.2013 02:44, Ursula Junque wrote:
> > >If upstreams don't oppose to that, bugs should only be filed against
> > >Ubuntu packages, discouraging the direct upstream reporting. Once we
> > >have an agreement, we need to document this to prevent all the confusion
> > >to happen again, and then discuss what to do with the previously
> > >reported bugs. Oliver (ogra) said there was an email some time ago to
> > >direct people to file bugs only against Ubuntu packages but no one seems
> > >to find it, feel free to point that out if you think that's relevant.
>
> > I just tried to file a bug against Ubuntu (unity8)¹, unfortunately I
> > can't set the status to 'Triaged', or decide the importance. So,
> > well... I can't triage Ubuntu (unity8) bugs.
>
> > AFAICT, we also don't get notified about new Ubuntu (unity8) bugs,
> > even though I added a subscription for my team².
>
> > Not exactly sure why that is, but the project has Maintainer: Ubuntu
> > Developers³, which actually doesn't exist...⁴
>
> > All in all, if all of us need to get added to some global Ubuntu
> > team to be able to triage Ubuntu (*) bugs for their projects, that's
> > not ideal... Current state doesn't work for us either...
>
> Well, you say it's not ideal; but we are all working together toward a
> common goal of producing a coherent OS, and there are benefits to having
> consistent policies for bug tracking across the various components of that
> OS.  I think the members of your team (and other upstream teams) should
> easily be able to meet the requirements for the bugsquad team, and
> participate in bug triage for your packages on an equal footing with the
> rest of the community.
>
> --
> Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
> Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
> Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
> slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org
>
> --
> Ubuntu-quality mailing list
> Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
>
>


-- 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
-- 
Ubuntu-quality mailing list
Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality