Re: FinalFreeze - implications on Universe?
Hi Robbie (2011.08.15_19:20:26_+0200) > Speaking for myself, the problem is that without the date, an upstream > can't communicate to their users what to expect to see in a given > Ubuntu release versus what they'll need to use a daily-build/upstream > snapshot for...because they don't know when the freeze occurs relative > to their own development timeline. I don't see anything wrong with advertising the main final freeze date to upstreams. All bug fixes done in universe after that are best-effort, and most would be suitable for SRU if this window wasn't available. For most upstreams, the practical freeze date is probably somewhere in-between DIF and FF. Someone working on Ubuntu needs to care about their code for it to receive any updates after FF. SR -- Stefano Rivera http://tumbleweed.org.za/ H: +27 21 465 6908 C: +27 72 419 8559 UCT: x3127 -- Ubuntu-release mailing list Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
Re: FinalFreeze - implications on Universe?
Robbie Williamson wrote: >On 08/15/2011 11:56 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote: >> >> >> Kate Stewart wrote: >> >>> >>> Dear release team members, >>> >>> Based on some discussions we've been having on the other Freezes, >would >>> like to see if there is consensus to make FinalFreeze[1], apply to >>> Universe as well as main. >>> >>> Right now the process states: >>> >>> "For packages in universe that aren't seeded in any of the Ubuntu >>> flavors, this final freeze is nominal; packages must be manually >>> accepted by the archive admins, but no additional approval is >>> required." >>> >>> There's no timing on this, but historically we've not been >accepting >>> into the archive after a certain point. >>> >>> What is "seeded" is also a bit ambiguous these days as well. >>> >>> So... >>> >>> 1) does it make sense to declare FinalFreeze to be freeze on all the >>> archive? >>> >>> or >>> >>> 2) do we want a separate explicit universe Freeze (and be clearer >what >>> is ok to upload in the period between FinalFinal freeze, and this >date) >>> >>> or >>> >>> 3)... >>> >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> Thanks, Kate >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze >> >> What problem are you trying to solve? We get a lot of good fixes in >during this period, so it's not clear to me why we would want to change >it. >> >> Scott K >> >For me, I would just be happy with a dateif it's adjusted each >release and/or 2 days before release...again, I'm fine. Speaking for >myself, the problem is that without the date, an upstream can't >communicate to their users what to expect to see in a given Ubuntu >release versus what they'll need to use a daily-build/upstream snapshot >for...because they don't know when the freeze occurs relative to their >own development timeline. The pre-release endgame is generally about mining existing fixes in Debian, upstreams, other distros, etc. If you need a date to give upstream developers, then I'd use the final freeze date we use for Main/seeded. I wouldn't want them to target that last few days. Scott K -- Ubuntu-release mailing list Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
Re: FinalFreeze - implications on Universe?
On 08/15/2011 11:56 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > Kate Stewart wrote: > >> >> Dear release team members, >> >> Based on some discussions we've been having on the other Freezes, would >> like to see if there is consensus to make FinalFreeze[1], apply to >> Universe as well as main. >> >> Right now the process states: >> >> "For packages in universe that aren't seeded in any of the Ubuntu >> flavors, this final freeze is nominal; packages must be manually >> accepted by the archive admins, but no additional approval is >> required." >> >> There's no timing on this, but historically we've not been accepting >> into the archive after a certain point. >> >> What is "seeded" is also a bit ambiguous these days as well. >> >> So... >> >> 1) does it make sense to declare FinalFreeze to be freeze on all the >> archive? >> >> or >> >> 2) do we want a separate explicit universe Freeze (and be clearer what >> is ok to upload in the period between FinalFinal freeze, and this date) >> >> or >> >> 3)... >> >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Thanks, Kate >> >> >> >> >> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze > > What problem are you trying to solve? We get a lot of good fixes in during > this period, so it's not clear to me why we would want to change it. > > Scott K > For me, I would just be happy with a dateif it's adjusted each release and/or 2 days before release...again, I'm fine. Speaking for myself, the problem is that without the date, an upstream can't communicate to their users what to expect to see in a given Ubuntu release versus what they'll need to use a daily-build/upstream snapshot for...because they don't know when the freeze occurs relative to their own development timeline. -- Robbie Williamson robbiew[irc.freenode.net] "You can't be lucky all the time, but you can be smart everyday" -Mos Def "Arrogance is thinking you are better than everyone else, while Confidence is knowing no one else is better than you." -Me ;) -- Ubuntu-release mailing list Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
Re: FinalFreeze - implications on Universe?
Kate Stewart wrote: > >Dear release team members, > >Based on some discussions we've been having on the other Freezes, would >like to see if there is consensus to make FinalFreeze[1], apply to >Universe as well as main. > > Right now the process states: > >"For packages in universe that aren't seeded in any of the Ubuntu >flavors, this final freeze is nominal; packages must be manually >accepted by the archive admins, but no additional approval is >required." > >There's no timing on this, but historically we've not been accepting >into the archive after a certain point. > >What is "seeded" is also a bit ambiguous these days as well. > >So... > >1) does it make sense to declare FinalFreeze to be freeze on all the >archive? > >or > >2) do we want a separate explicit universe Freeze (and be clearer what >is ok to upload in the period between FinalFinal freeze, and this date) > >or > >3)... > > >Thoughts? > >Thanks, Kate > > > > >[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze What problem are you trying to solve? We get a lot of good fixes in during this period, so it's not clear to me why we would want to change it. Scott K -- Ubuntu-release mailing list Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
Re: FinalFreeze - implications on Universe?
Hiya, On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 11:12:32AM -0500, Kate Stewart wrote: > > Dear release team members, > > Based on some discussions we've been having on the other Freezes, would > like to see if there is consensus to make FinalFreeze[1], apply to > Universe as well as main. > >Right now the process states: > > "For packages in universe that aren't seeded in any of the Ubuntu > flavors, this final freeze is nominal; packages must be manually > accepted by the archive admins, but no additional approval is required." > > There's no timing on this, but historically we've not been accepting > into the archive after a certain point. > > What is "seeded" is also a bit ambiguous these days as well. > > So... > > 1) does it make sense to declare FinalFreeze to be freeze on all the > archive? On balance, I think Universe/unseeded/not-on-image probably benefits from having the extra time to fix bugs, as its packages don't have such an impact on the releasing process and often have lingering bugs that get fixed pretty easily once attention is drawn to them. We've had Final Freeze for unseeded *verse packages as about a week later than the main one. After this point, uploads to these packages must be to fix RC bugs (in Ubuntu or Debian where appropriate). Historically we've had a bit of a run on the rcbugs page in this period, with a friendly archive administrator on hand to press buttons and release team member to approve requests (as all need to be approved after the final freeze). Some number (48?) hours before release we stop completely and start updating via SRU instead. > or > > 2) do we want a separate explicit universe Freeze (and be clearer what > is ok to upload in the period between FinalFinal freeze, and this date) > > or > > 3)... I think being more relaxed for non-image packages is worthwhile. Splitting it into something else or updating the documentation might make things clearer, so is probably welcome. Cheers, -- Iain Lane [ i...@orangesquash.org.uk ] Debian Developer [ la...@debian.org ] Ubuntu Developer [ la...@ubuntu.com ] PhD student [ i...@cs.nott.ac.uk ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-release mailing list Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
FinalFreeze - implications on Universe?
Dear release team members, Based on some discussions we've been having on the other Freezes, would like to see if there is consensus to make FinalFreeze[1], apply to Universe as well as main. Right now the process states: "For packages in universe that aren't seeded in any of the Ubuntu flavors, this final freeze is nominal; packages must be manually accepted by the archive admins, but no additional approval is required." There's no timing on this, but historically we've not been accepting into the archive after a certain point. What is "seeded" is also a bit ambiguous these days as well. So... 1) does it make sense to declare FinalFreeze to be freeze on all the archive? or 2) do we want a separate explicit universe Freeze (and be clearer what is ok to upload in the period between FinalFinal freeze, and this date) or 3)... Thoughts? Thanks, Kate [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinalFreeze -- Ubuntu-release mailing list Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
