Re: Beta 1

[Scott Kitterman]

Phil (phillw),

I was offline most of today due to the holiday in the US, so I had no idea what 
your mail was about when it appeared on the -release list.  I just went back 
and reviewed the #ubuntu-release backlog for today to try and figure it out.

It seems like every milestone you want assurance that everything is perfect 
before asking people to test so they won't waste time on anything other than 
the final.  It's really not a very productive attitude.  You've been told this 
repeatedly, but it doesn't seem to stick.

You were repeatedly abusive and disrespectful in the channel of things that 
were minor issues, not the release team's issue to work, etc.  Now that I've 
read the channel logs, my question isn't do you owe Laney an apology, but who 
else?

Simmer down and listen more.  Currently I think much of your attempts to help 
are (unintientionally, I'm sure) counterproductive.

Scott K

On Tuesday, September 03, 2013 00:08:14 Phill Whiteside wrote:
> If you wish to be pedantic, read through the "rules" of handing over.
> Whilst everyone (even me) is entitled to a "life", mile stone releases are
> of such significance that if the original OP has time constraints, there
> should be, as per the CoC a seamless hand over of responsibilities.
> 
> I do not, therefore think that any apology is needed from all the *buntu
> teams who have had no leadership for failed builds etc. Only now am I
> sending out an email to let their testers know that the ISO's are there. To
> further this, it has been suggested that the beta 1 *may* be delayed until
> Friday.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Phill.
> 
> On 2 September 2013 23:38, Micah Gersten  wrote:
> >  On 09/02/2013 05:12 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> >  I'd like to register that while my self and Laney have not seen eye tio
> > 
> > eye, his attempt of building the Beta 1's for our community teams has been
> > a complete and utter disaster.
> > 
> > 
> >  The release team are trying to pick up the pieces and manually spin
> > 
> > ISO's. The cut off date is Thursday, we are now on Tuesday with NO stable
> > ISO. For heavens sake, out of all the community who wanted a beta 1...
> > lubuntu was the only one there and told it would be re-spun.
> > 
> >  This is a disgraceful way to treat testers. Yes, those people who
> > 
> > actually check systems work.
> > 
> >  I can be a royal PITA for shouting up what testers let me know, but not
> > 
> > having  a beta 1 - with no idea when it will arrive and the final; insult
> > of the person "Laney" to vanish from the discussion explains one simple
> > thing... He's not up to the job of being pro-active for issues that occur.
> > Instead the -release team gathered together to do what they could.
> > 
> >  Laney, in charge?!!! Where was he?
> >  
> >  
> > 
> >  To quote the original mail [1]:
> > "Also let us know when you would like automatic image builds stopped,
> > otherwise the assumption is Monday evening UK time."
> > 
> > The window from Thursday to today was meant to stabilize ISOs after the
> > freeze.  I see no evidence on this list that you wanted Beta ISOs any
> > sooner than the rest of the flavors.
> > 
> > Release candidates for Betas are usually available sometime on Tuesday of
> > release week as are the alphas.  The main difference with beta is there
> > are
> > a few days to stabilize ISOs without a lot of churn in the archive.
> > AFAIK, this has not changed in years.
> > 
> > Laney stopped the dailies and spun up ISOs as he said he would, warned
> > that he wouldn't be around later, and said that people can respin if
> > needed. [2]
> > 
> > Chastising someone for stepping away when it's late evening for them [2]
> > (close to 8PM in this case when the interaction occured, though, really,
> > it's not ok at any time).  There are polite ways to address disagreements
> > and this certainly isn't one of them.
> > 
> > To quote the CoC [3]:
> >- Be respectful
> >
> >Disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. We work together to
> >resolve conflict, assume good intentions and do our best to act in an
> >empathic fashion. We don't allow frustration to turn into a personal
> >attack. A community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is
> >not a
> >productive one.
> > 
> > I think that a public apology is in order here.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Micah Gersten
> > Ubuntu Core Dev and Ubuntu Membership Board member
> > 
> > [1]
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2013-August/002499.html
> > [2] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/09/02/%23ubuntu-release.html#t17:00and
> > continues of and on until about 19:00 [3]
> > http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct
> > 
> > --
> > Ubuntu-release mailing list
> > Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
> > 
> > --
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
> > 

-- 

Saucy Beta 1 release notes - templates ready for team input

[Kate Stewart]

For the teams participating in Beta 1 this week,   the link to each team's
release notes page is now available from:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1.

Bugs common to all flavors will be tracked in:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1/CommonInfrastructure and have
been set up to automatically import into the templates.

Please check that the links are accurate and add your content before
Thursday  :-).

Thanks, Kate
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Re: Beta 1

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Sep 02, 2013 at 11:12:11PM +0100, Phill Whiteside wrote:
> Hi,

> I'd like to register that while my self and Laney have not seen eye tio
> eye, his attempt of building the Beta 1's for our community teams has been
> a complete and utter disaster.
> 
>  The release team are trying to pick up the pieces and manually spin ISO's.
> The cut off date is Thursday, we are now on Tuesday with NO stable ISO. For
> heavens sake, out of all the community who wanted a beta 1... lubuntu was
> the only one there and told it would be re-spun.

This is factually inaccurate.  With the exception of the Lubuntu alternate
images that were respun for a specific package update that I discussed with
you on IRC while I was doing it, all of the beta1 *candidate* images were
spun by Laney who kicked them off at 8pm his time.  The kubuntu image build
had to be tried a second time despite Laney having kicked it off, due to
suboptimal lockfile handling in the mirror script.

Furthermore, Iain is a member of the release team, which is why he's on
point for the beta milestone in the first place.  So it makes no sense to
suggest that "Laney bad, release team good", and when other members of the
release team are helping with such builds when it's after-hours for Iain,
it's because that's exactly how the system is designed to work.

I agree with Micah that an apology to Iain is in order.

> This is a disgraceful way to treat testers. Yes, those people who actually
> check systems work.

> I can be a royal PITA for shouting up what testers let me know, but not
> having  a beta 1 - with no idea when it will arrive and the final; insult
> of the person "Laney" to vanish from the discussion explains one simple
> thing... He's not up to the job of being pro-active for issues that occur.
> Instead the -release team gathered together to do what they could.

The task that Laney is signed up for on beta-1 is "image engineering" on
nusakan.  This means he's responsible for driving those parts of the
milestone that require shell access to the Canonical-only nusakan host. 
Since the beginning of this cycle, the *only* bit that requires access to
nusakan for a milestone is turning on/off the cron job.  For everything
else, the flavors are meant to be entirely self-service through the
iso.qa.ubuntu.com website, triggering whatever candidate builds they need
whenever they need them.  This feature has been implemented on the website
precisely because Canonical staff should *not* be responsible for driving
candidate images for milestones that Ubuntu is not participating in:
flavors should be responsible to themselves for making these milestones
happen.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: Beta 1

[Micah Gersten]

On 09/02/2013 06:08 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote:

On 2 September 2013 23:38, Micah Gersten mailto:mic...@ubuntu.com>> wrote:

On 09/02/2013 05:12 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote:

Hi,

I'd like to register that while my self and Laney have not seen
eye tio eye, his attempt of building the Beta 1's for our
community teams has been a complete and utter disaster.

 The release team are trying to pick up the pieces and manually
spin ISO's. The cut off date is Thursday, we are now on Tuesday
with NO stable ISO. For heavens sake, out of all the community who
wanted a beta 1... lubuntu was the only one there and told it
would be re-spun.

This is a disgraceful way to treat testers. Yes, those people who
actually check systems work.

I can be a royal PITA for shouting up what testers let me know,
but not having  a beta 1 - with no idea when it will arrive and
the final; insult of the person "Laney" to vanish from the
discussion explains one simple thing... He's not up to the job of
being pro-active for issues that occur. Instead the -release team
gathered together to do what they could.

Laney, in charge?!!! Where was he?





To quote the original mail [1]:
"Also let us know when you would like automatic image builds
stopped, otherwise the assumption is Monday evening UK time."

The window from Thursday to today was meant to stabilize ISOs after
the freeze.  I see no evidence on this list that you wanted Beta
ISOs any sooner than the rest of the flavors.

Release candidates for Betas are usually available sometime on
Tuesday of release week as are the alphas.  The main difference with
beta is there are a few days to stabilize ISOs without a lot of
churn in the archive.   AFAIK, this has not changed in years.

Laney stopped the dailies and spun up ISOs as he said he would,
warned that he wouldn't be around later, and said that people can
respin if needed. [2]

Chastising someone for stepping away when it's late evening for them
[2] (close to 8PM in this case when the interaction occured, though,
really, it's not ok at any time).  There are polite ways to address
disagreements and this certainly isn't one of them.

To quote the CoC [3]:

  *


Be respectful

Disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. We work together to
resolve conflict, assume good intentions and do our best to act
in an empathic fashion. We don't allow frustration to turn into
a personal attack. A community where people feel uncomfortable
or threatened is not a productive one.


I think that a public apology is in order here.

Thanks,
Micah Gersten
Ubuntu Core Dev and Ubuntu Membership Board member

[1]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2013-August/002499.html
[2]
http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/09/02/%23ubuntu-release.html#t17:00
and continues of and on until about 19:00
[3] http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct



> If you wish to be pedantic, read through the "rules" of handing over.
> Whilst everyone (even me) is entitled to a "life", mile stone releases
> are of such significance that if the original OP has time constraints,
> there should be, as per the CoC a seamless hand over of responsibilities.
>
> I do not, therefore think that any apology is needed from all the *buntu
> teams who have had no leadership for failed builds etc. Only now am I
> sending out an email to let their testers know that the ISO's are there.
> To further this, it has been suggested that the beta 1 *may* be delayed
> until Friday.
>
> Regards,
>
> Phill.

As I said in my original mail, as far as I'm concerned, Iain met his 
commitments as the person in charge of Image Engineering for Beta 1. 
This does not mean he has to be the only one to spin up images or needs 
to be at everyone's beck and call 24 hours a day during the Beta image 
period.  It generally means that he'll spin up the first round and 
during his day time take care of any necessary respins as well as 
keeping and eye on things that might require respins.
The only type of handoff I can find in the CoC is the following which I 
don't believe applies:


"Step down considerately

When somebody leaves or disengages from the project, we ask that they do 
so in a way that minimises disruption to the project. They should tell 
people they are leaving and take the proper steps to ensure that

others can pick up where they left off."

There are plenty of other people available to push buttons as needed as 
well as answer any questions you might have.  One of the benefits of 
being a global project is that we have people in different time zones 
that can take care of things.


I don't believe any volunteer should be treated this way.  If 
discussions need to happen due to someone not handling their role 
properly, there are ways of doing th

Re: Beta 1

[Phill Whiteside]

If you wish to be pedantic, read through the "rules" of handing over.
Whilst everyone (even me) is entitled to a "life", mile stone releases are
of such significance that if the original OP has time constraints, there
should be, as per the CoC a seamless hand over of responsibilities.

I do not, therefore think that any apology is needed from all the *buntu
teams who have had no leadership for failed builds etc. Only now am I
sending out an email to let their testers know that the ISO's are there. To
further this, it has been suggested that the beta 1 *may* be delayed until
Friday.

Regards,

Phill.


On 2 September 2013 23:38, Micah Gersten  wrote:

>  On 09/02/2013 05:12 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>  I'd like to register that while my self and Laney have not seen eye tio
> eye, his attempt of building the Beta 1's for our community teams has been
> a complete and utter disaster.
> 
>  The release team are trying to pick up the pieces and manually spin
> ISO's. The cut off date is Thursday, we are now on Tuesday with NO stable
> ISO. For heavens sake, out of all the community who wanted a beta 1...
> lubuntu was the only one there and told it would be re-spun.
>
>  This is a disgraceful way to treat testers. Yes, those people who
> actually check systems work.
>
>  I can be a royal PITA for shouting up what testers let me know, but not
> having  a beta 1 - with no idea when it will arrive and the final; insult
> of the person "Laney" to vanish from the discussion explains one simple
> thing... He's not up to the job of being pro-active for issues that occur.
> Instead the -release team gathered together to do what they could.
>
>  Laney, in charge?!!! Where was he?
>
>  
>
>
>  To quote the original mail [1]:
> "Also let us know when you would like automatic image builds stopped,
> otherwise the assumption is Monday evening UK time."
>
> The window from Thursday to today was meant to stabilize ISOs after the
> freeze.  I see no evidence on this list that you wanted Beta ISOs any
> sooner than the rest of the flavors.
>
> Release candidates for Betas are usually available sometime on Tuesday of
> release week as are the alphas.  The main difference with beta is there are
> a few days to stabilize ISOs without a lot of churn in the archive.
> AFAIK, this has not changed in years.
>
> Laney stopped the dailies and spun up ISOs as he said he would, warned
> that he wouldn't be around later, and said that people can respin if
> needed. [2]
>
> Chastising someone for stepping away when it's late evening for them [2]
> (close to 8PM in this case when the interaction occured, though, really,
> it's not ok at any time).  There are polite ways to address disagreements
> and this certainly isn't one of them.
>
> To quote the CoC [3]:
>
>- Be respectful
>
>Disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. We work together to
>resolve conflict, assume good intentions and do our best to act in an
>empathic fashion. We don't allow frustration to turn into a personal
>attack. A community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a
>productive one.
>
>
> I think that a public apology is in order here.
>
> Thanks,
> Micah Gersten
> Ubuntu Core Dev and Ubuntu Membership Board member
>
> [1]
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2013-August/002499.html
> [2] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/09/02/%23ubuntu-release.html#t17:00and 
> continues of and on until about 19:00
> [3] http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct
>
> --
> Ubuntu-release mailing list
> Ubuntu-release@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
>
> --
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
> 
>
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Re: Beta 1

[Micah Gersten]

On 09/02/2013 05:12 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote:

Hi,

I'd like to register that while my self and Laney have not seen eye 
tio eye, his attempt of building the Beta 1's for our community teams 
has been a complete and utter disaster.


 The release team are trying to pick up the pieces and manually spin 
ISO's. The cut off date is Thursday, we are now on Tuesday with NO 
stable ISO. For heavens sake, out of all the community who wanted a 
beta 1... lubuntu was the only one there and told it would be re-spun.


This is a disgraceful way to treat testers. Yes, those people who 
actually check systems work.


I can be a royal PITA for shouting up what testers let me know, but 
not having  a beta 1 - with no idea when it will arrive and the final; 
insult of the person "Laney" to vanish from the discussion explains 
one simple thing... He's not up to the job of being pro-active for 
issues that occur. Instead the -release team gathered together to do 
what they could.


Laney, in charge?!!! Where was he?





To quote the original mail [1]:
"Also let us know when you would like automatic image builds stopped, 
otherwise the assumption is Monday evening UK time."


The window from Thursday to today was meant to stabilize ISOs after the 
freeze.  I see no evidence on this list that you wanted Beta ISOs any 
sooner than the rest of the flavors.


Release candidates for Betas are usually available sometime on Tuesday 
of release week as are the alphas.  The main difference with beta is 
there are a few days to stabilize ISOs without a lot of churn in the 
archive.   AFAIK, this has not changed in years.


Laney stopped the dailies and spun up ISOs as he said he would, warned 
that he wouldn't be around later, and said that people can respin if 
needed. [2]


Chastising someone for stepping away when it's late evening for them [2] 
(close to 8PM in this case when the interaction occured, though, really, 
it's not ok at any time).  There are polite ways to address 
disagreements and this certainly isn't one of them.


To quote the CoC [3]:

 *


   Be respectful

   Disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. We work together to
   resolve conflict, assume good intentions and do our best to act in
   an empathic fashion. We don't allow frustration to turn into a
   personal attack. A community where people feel uncomfortable or
   threatened is not a productive one.


I think that a public apology is in order here.

Thanks,
Micah Gersten
Ubuntu Core Dev and Ubuntu Membership Board member

[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2013-August/002499.html
[2] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/09/02/%23ubuntu-release.html#t17:00 
and continues of and on until about 19:00

[3] http://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct
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Beta 1

[Phill Whiteside]

Hi,

I'd like to register that while my self and Laney have not seen eye tio
eye, his attempt of building the Beta 1's for our community teams has been
a complete and utter disaster.

 The release team are trying to pick up the pieces and manually spin ISO's.
The cut off date is Thursday, we are now on Tuesday with NO stable ISO. For
heavens sake, out of all the community who wanted a beta 1... lubuntu was
the only one there and told it would be re-spun.

This is a disgraceful way to treat testers. Yes, those people who actually
check systems work.

I can be a royal PITA for shouting up what testers let me know, but not
having  a beta 1 - with no idea when it will arrive and the final; insult
of the person "Laney" to vanish from the discussion explains one simple
thing... He's not up to the job of being pro-active for issues that occur.
Instead the -release team gathered together to do what they could.

Laney, in charge?!!! Where was he?






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Re: libimobiledevice breakage

[Martin Pitt]

Loïc Minier [2013-09-02 17:21 +0200]:
> >   gvfs
> 
> Martin has uploaded latest upstream release which has a fix; this might
> be worth hinting?

FTR, autopkgtest is happy (which exercises automount, USB, CD-ROM,
gphoto, MTP, archive, smb, etc.), I manually tested USB and MTP on
current saucy, and Loic tested the iPod parts (which we don't cover in
automatic tests). Also, there have only really been bug fixes:

  http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/gvfs/1.17/gvfs-1.17.3.news
  http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/gvfs/1.17/gvfs-1.17.90.news

Martin
-- 
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Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com)  | Debian Developer  (www.debian.org)

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Re: libimobiledevice breakage

[Loïc Minier]

On Mon, Sep 02, 2013, Loïc Minier wrote:
>   nautilus-ideviceinfo
>   libgpod

Uploaded fixed packages; nautilus-ideviceinfo doesn't need hinting
(unseeded).

>   ideviceinstaller

Already patched to cope with libimobiledevice 1.1.5; no "incompatible
pointer type" warning in latest log.

>   ipheth-utils
>   upower

Don't seem to be affected (no "incompatible pointer type" warning, not
using service ports interface).

>   gvfs

Martin has uploaded latest upstream release which has a fix; this might
be worth hinting?

Cheers,
-- 
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