Fwd: [Bug 307582] Re: SRU: Bridging documentation in the JeOS VMBuilder documentation is wrong

[Jonathan Jesse]

Copying Matthew East of the Doc team onto this.

Matt I know you have done a lot of SRUs for the ubuntu-docs package.  We
have a pretty large problem with the server guide as it relates to the JeOS
VMBuilder documentation.  How do we go about making sure it gets updated and
added into the server updates?

Thanks for your help,

Jonathan

-- Forwarded message --
From: Adam Sommer 
Date: Dec 15, 2008 9:56 PM
Subject: [Bug 307582] Re: SRU: Bridging documentation in the JeOS VMBuilder
documentation is wrong
To: jje...@gmail.com

I think we can do SRUs for the server guide, but I can't remember ever
actually doing one :-).  Anyway, following the SRU wiki page:

1) The impact of the bug is that the instructions in the Server Guide
won't work, causing confusion and wasted time for the user.

2) A fix has been committed to revision 132 of the lp:ubuntu-doc branch.

3) A patch for the ubuntu-serverguide package is attached.

4) To reproduce the bug follow the current instructions, and your VM
won't be able to connect to the network using a bridge interface.
Change the XML in VMBuilder/plugins/libvirt/templates/libvirtxml.tmpl
and the VM should connect fine.

5) There should be no regression potential, and since the fix is an XML
configuration file there should be no need to re-translate the package.
At least as I understand what is and what is not translated.

I don't think I can upload a fixed package to release-proposed, or at
least I have never done so.  If someone else can help with the step 4 of
the SRU process it would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Adam

** Attachment added: "virtualization.xml debdiff"
  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20458241/ubuntu-docs-8.10.3.debdiff

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SRU: Bridging documentation in the JeOS VMBuilder documentation is wrong
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/307582
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Re: Server Team 20081125 meeting minutes

[Jonathan Jesse]

>
>  Beers for Ubuntu Server members 
>
> Rick Clark (dendrobates - Technical Lead of the Ubuntu Server Team)
> announced that he would buy any server team member a beer if they found
> him at UDS.  soren and kirkland made note of that while Koon started to
> cry. dholbach plugged his sponsoring work[1] on server related packages
> and wondered if that made him a server team member. mathiaz reminded
> that subscribing to the ubuntu-server mailing list was enough to become
> a member of the ubuntu-server team in LP. dendrobates added that he got
> to choose the beer. There was some discussion about american beers and
> got to the point where kirkland suggested to rename the team to
> #beer-server team.
>
> [1]: 
> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
>
> Can the free beer exchanged to something that I can drink?  If not, please
find me a gluten free beer.
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Re: Hostname in 8.04

[Jonathan Jesse]

Is the answer to this is normal or is the answer to just edit the name in
/etc/hostname?

On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Soren Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 12:00:13PM +0100, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> > Is this normal behaviour, and is the recommendation to have the
> > /etc/hostname set to just the server name (without the domain)?
>
> Yes.
>
> --
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> Canonical Ltd. | http://www.ubuntu.com/
>
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landscape client?

[Jonathan Jesse]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but what benifit do I get of having
the landscape client installed on my server if I'm not using Landscape?

Jonathan
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Re: InfoWeek article

[Jonathan Jesse]

Had not seen it thanks for the link... just a full except of the server
chapter from the book

On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 5:53 AM, Dustin Kirkland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> I was curious if anyone else saw this published last week:
>
>  *
> http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=209903275
>
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>
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Re: Ubuntu Server Book Needed?

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:00 AM, Sander van Vugt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> Thank you so much for your input! I will definitely consider all of it
> when going through the second draft of the virtualization chapter in a
> week or two.
>
> If you could give me your contact details by private mail, I'll make
> sure you get a free copy of the beginning and advanced books once they
> are out later this year.
>
> Thanks again!
> Sander
>
>
> Mike Lane schreef:
>  > I realized that I sent my reply to Sander only so I have copied it
> below:
> >
> > 
> >
> > Hi Sander,
> >
> > I will likely work through the KVM section again soon as I have been
> > trying different Virtualization platforms to try and see which one I
> > like best.
> >
> > I like the idea of running KVM on Ubuntu server a lot and remember
> > getting some error messages trying to create virtual machines
> > following your KVM section. I don't remember what they were as this
> > was a few months ago when I first started using Ubuntu (so it could
> > well have been user error). Since then I have also been looking at
> > VirtualBox as I had read that it too had the ability to run in
> > headless mode.
> >
> > I am not sure if you should discuss KVM more in the book as compared
> > to Xen for example? I say this as KVM is what Ubuntu officially
> > supports now I think, right?
> >
> > What would I like to see more of? Well here is a wish list off the top
> > of my head:
> >
> > * discussion of growable vs fully expanded virtual hard drives for
> > performance. If the virtual hard drive is fully expanded is it created
> > as a contiguous file even if it is several Gb in size? If virtual hard
> > drives are growable does this mean that they will become fragmented?
> > * how to monitor virtual machine performance remotely if possible and
> > also discussion of remote desktop or similar to both headless and GUI
> > virtual machines. Remote management tools - what are they and how to
> > install and use them.
> > * Ubuntu JeOS - the benefits of using this operating system for
> > virtual machines. Are VMWare Tools necessary to run JeOS in KVM? If so
> > how to install VMWare Tools. Discussion of the benefits of VMWare
> > tools on Ubuntu JeOS.
> > * What are the specific optimizations that JeOS offers other than a
> > small hard drive footprint and low memory use (without VMWare Tools)
> > on KVM?
> > * Any methods to reduce disk I/O operations on virtual machines to
> > improve performance further?
> > * What features are proposed for future releases of KVM?
> > * More detailed explanation of the qemu commands i.e. parameter by
> > parameter so that the reader knows what the switches are for etc
> > * Virtual machine management in general - scripts to start up a
> > particular virtual machine on boot for example, or shut down all
> > virtual machines one by one. Scripts to back up virtual machines to
> > remote stoarge and then boot them once this is done.
> > * How to "import" VMWare virtual machines to KVM - if this can be
> > done? There are plenty of VMWare appliances that I would like to run -
> > can this easily be done on KVM and what steps would need to be taken
> > for example? Is there any performance penalty in importing a VMWare
> > virtual machines as opposed to creating it in KVM?
> > * Is there a GUI tool to create KVM virtual machines on the desktop
> > before moving them to the server (which is how I might prefer to work).
> > * Can I do snapshots in KVM? So discussion of the full feature set vs
> > the competition (VMWare) for example.
> > * does a kernel update affect my KVM installation?
> > * can I do some kind of VDI with KVM?
> >
> > Basically I would like a full and detailed account of the limitations
> > and features of KVM and how to administer the server through the
> > command line and remotely with GUI tools if that applies also.
> >
> > With virtualbox I had a hard time getting the bridged networking to
> > work and I did not get that far with KVM so I can't comment there.
> >
> > I realize that this is much more than would ever be in a beginner
> > book. Even so I would have liked to see more page space devoted to
> > Virtualization so that more ground could be covered.
> >
> > I guess that this is why I said that I would happily buy a good book
> > just on Virtualization.
> >
> > I think I ended up feeling that the explanations of technologies was
> > fine (pages 329 to 331) but that the walkthrough of creating virtual
> > machines for KVM (332 to 335) did not explain the syntax or the
> > process fully enough for me. Does the Qemu window that you see when
> > installing XP run when XP is running on the server for example, or is
> > it just to monitor the install? I guess if I had got that far maybe it
> > would become clearer :-)
> >
> > So I am not sure how much this helps you as it is far more information
> > that would be included in a single chapter on Virtualization ... but I
> 

Re: Ubuntu server GUI

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Oliver Brakmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, 2008-06-27 15:08, JAWUD wrote...
> > There are several options for a GUI.
> > [...]
> > The last option is to make a remote GUI system.
>
> I like that.
>
> > All the interfaces are just different front ends. So I think ubuntu needs
> a
> > configuration abstraction layer. Something like Augeas. Augeas can become
> the
> > back end and then it's easier to build different GUIs. Augeas intend to
> cover
> > all commonly used configuration files and it is still possible to edit
> the
> > config files manual.
>
> I'm a bit concerned that there is only talk about editing configuration
> files in all these discussions.  There's more to system administration
> than that.
>
> I'm also surprised that noone has mentioned 'func' yet, even though it
> was prominently featured on LWN's front page an issue or two ago:
> . I believe it could be a good
> supplement to augeas.
>
> Oliver
>
>
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>

I agree, server administration is not just getting a configuration file in
place.  System administration is also about deploying software and updates
in a repeatable fashion over and over again.  Alos it is about determinng
the current status of my hardware and more importantly being able to report
on it.

Not being a full time server administration, but someone who works in the
system management space doing the above is a large hole that Ubuntu has, not
only on the server side, but also on the client side.  How can I prove all
of my servers have the latest software patch deployed on all 250 of my
servers.  Or when budget time, how many of these machines do I need to
upgrade any machines hardware to meet hte coming projects?

A combination of editing configuration files, deploying software and updates
and reporting that what I wanted to do in a very repeatable maner is done.

Jonathan
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Re: RFC: Centrilized managment console

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Jonathan Jesse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Dan Shearer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
>> > I have been working on the blueprint of a centralized managment console
>>   :
>> >
>> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-centralized-services-administrator
>>
>> I'm not sure how best to contribute, so I'll start with a few comments
>> here first.
>>
>> Rationale
>> -
>>
>> I wonder if the Rationale section is maybe looking at the right things
>> from the wrong starting point.  To me the deeper analysis is:
>>
>>Ubuntu Server has no awareness of itself as a product.
>>
>> Yast, webmin and the rest don't address this either.  Personally I'd be
>> delighted to stick with existing Ubuntu Server tools for managing
>> services (thanks, Debian, upstreams!) and just overlay a higher order of
>> understanding and control. Which, at our later option, we can make as
>> GUI as we like, or as is required.
>>
>> There's a subtle point here that was only hinted at before, I can't
>> remember who made it. The good thing a lot of us see in the Microsoft
>> admin tools is that they have this higher order of understanding to some
>> degree. Not so much just that there is a GUI. And that is where I think
>> some of the debate on this list has been like ships passing in the
>> night, people not realising that the others are talking about different
>> things. I despite a mandatory GUI as much as the next Unix person. But I
>> recognise value in a network-centric management view, such as delivered
>> nicely by some GUI tools.
>>
>> Outline Sketch Implementation
>> -
>>
>> Following is a sketch of a commandline tool ubuntu-server-admin.py that,
>> if it existed, would give me confidence that a useful admin tool could
>> be built on top of it. My tool would be interacting with existing Linux
>> and Debian management facilities, and would use a database. I have a
>> clear idea for how the database would work but that's detail.
>>
>> u-s-admin --report --overview returns an XML summary file that says:
>>   name = X, otherwise known as Z
>>   services I'm running that matter to users are A,B,C
>>   the locations of my vital data are D, E, F
>>   the network services I depend on are G, H I
>>   the network servers I depend on are J, K, L
>>   the machines to which I log messages are M and N
>>   the machines monitoring me are O and P
>>
>> (where I say 'machine' above it is likely 'CNAME' in reality to avoid
>> hard coding)
>>
>> u-s-admin --report --depend-network-services would return:
>>   DNS server details, and their current status
>>   KDC server details and status
>>:
>>
>> u-s-admin --report --depend-network-servers would return:
>>   Server J: rsync for backup, on port X; and current status
>>   Server K: SQL server for webapp we're running; and current status
>>   Server L: web proxy for accellerator for Apache we're running; and
>> current status
>>
>> Given this level of awareness, next we need to configure these things.
>> The fact of this configuration would not be kept in the database, the
>> database would only be for the higher-level understanding. This would be
>> making calls to debconf or apachectl or whatever makes sense, and these
>> tools just manage state the same way they always did.
>>
>> --
>> Dan Shearer
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> --
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>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
>> More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
>>
>
> Dan,
>
> I agree that I don't want to see a nice GUI environment, but I do want to
> be able policies against a group of computers that will report information
> back to me.
>
> So what happens after I do a u-s-admin -report?  How does the data get
> displayed?  How can i report against u-s-admin?  I would like a list of
> computers that are my DNS servers in my environment or a list of my SQL
> servers in the environment?
>
> XML is great that once you define that information it can be
> transmitted/delt with however you want to.
>
> Let me think more on this
>

Replying to my own post:

I think we should mandate a GUI environment.  Something that can be schedued
to run over and over again
Nicolas,
Just wonder if this is something that should be targeted to Intrepid +1?
That way we can run it and test it for intrepid and move forward as we work
towards the next ZLTS
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Re: RFC: Centrilized managment console

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 7:24 AM, Dan Shearer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 03, 2008 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Nicolas Valcarcel wrote:
> > I have been working on the blueprint of a centralized managment console
>   :
> >
> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-centralized-services-administrator
>
> I'm not sure how best to contribute, so I'll start with a few comments
> here first.
>
> Rationale
> -
>
> I wonder if the Rationale section is maybe looking at the right things
> from the wrong starting point.  To me the deeper analysis is:
>
>Ubuntu Server has no awareness of itself as a product.
>
> Yast, webmin and the rest don't address this either.  Personally I'd be
> delighted to stick with existing Ubuntu Server tools for managing
> services (thanks, Debian, upstreams!) and just overlay a higher order of
> understanding and control. Which, at our later option, we can make as
> GUI as we like, or as is required.
>
> There's a subtle point here that was only hinted at before, I can't
> remember who made it. The good thing a lot of us see in the Microsoft
> admin tools is that they have this higher order of understanding to some
> degree. Not so much just that there is a GUI. And that is where I think
> some of the debate on this list has been like ships passing in the
> night, people not realising that the others are talking about different
> things. I despite a mandatory GUI as much as the next Unix person. But I
> recognise value in a network-centric management view, such as delivered
> nicely by some GUI tools.
>
> Outline Sketch Implementation
> -
>
> Following is a sketch of a commandline tool ubuntu-server-admin.py that,
> if it existed, would give me confidence that a useful admin tool could
> be built on top of it. My tool would be interacting with existing Linux
> and Debian management facilities, and would use a database. I have a
> clear idea for how the database would work but that's detail.
>
> u-s-admin --report --overview returns an XML summary file that says:
>   name = X, otherwise known as Z
>   services I'm running that matter to users are A,B,C
>   the locations of my vital data are D, E, F
>   the network services I depend on are G, H I
>   the network servers I depend on are J, K, L
>   the machines to which I log messages are M and N
>   the machines monitoring me are O and P
>
> (where I say 'machine' above it is likely 'CNAME' in reality to avoid
> hard coding)
>
> u-s-admin --report --depend-network-services would return:
>   DNS server details, and their current status
>   KDC server details and status
>:
>
> u-s-admin --report --depend-network-servers would return:
>   Server J: rsync for backup, on port X; and current status
>   Server K: SQL server for webapp we're running; and current status
>   Server L: web proxy for accellerator for Apache we're running; and
> current status
>
> Given this level of awareness, next we need to configure these things.
> The fact of this configuration would not be kept in the database, the
> database would only be for the higher-level understanding. This would be
> making calls to debconf or apachectl or whatever makes sense, and these
> tools just manage state the same way they always did.
>
> --
> Dan Shearer
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
>

Dan,

I agree that I don't want to see a nice GUI environment, but I do want to be
able policies against a group of computers that will report information back
to me.

So what happens after I do a u-s-admin -report?  How does the data get
displayed?  How can i report against u-s-admin?  I would like a list of
computers that are my DNS servers in my environment or a list of my SQL
servers in the environment?

XML is great that once you define that information it can be
transmitted/delt with however you want to.

Let me think more on this
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Re: RFC: Centrilized managment console

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Nicolas Valcarcel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I have been working on the blueprint of a centralized managment console
> [1] using some of the ideas that some people gave me at UDS, i'm a little
> stuck (and still fighting with the timezone changes) on some technical
> details (i.e. how need meta data be defined) i will really apreciate if you
> can give a look at the specification and mail me with your opinions and
> ideas.
>
> Nick: you talk me about some interesting ideas i'm missing, can you please
> take a review on this.
>
> 1.
> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-centralized-services-administrator
>
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>

Nicholas,

I am very excited to see a project like this get started.  I think we need
to come up with a way of summarizng the different emails that have come
through Ubuntu Server (see the GUI on a Server) plus the most recent thread
as well.  Let me know how I can help.

Jonathan
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Re: New meeting time proposal - Tuesday 15:00 UTC

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Luke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From CDT (5 hours back):
>
> That will put America between 8am-11am. IRC isn't a HUGE problem, I don't
> think. I use Mibbit.com because I can't install local software on company
> computers. Does mibbit run on port 80, or standard IRC ports?
>
> Basically, the current time works for me, but I don't THINK the new time
> would hurt me. that said, I am not a formal Ubuntu member or developer.
>
>   On 6/3/08, Mathias Gug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> As discussed during last meeting, here is a proposal for a new meeting
>> schedule for the Ubuntu Server Team meeting:
>>
>> Every Tuesday at 15:00 UTC.
>>
>> Let me know what you think about it.
>>
>> --
>> Mathias Gug
>> Ubuntu Developer  http://www.ubuntu.com
>>
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>>
>
>
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>

15:00 UTC will 99% of the time exclude me... not a big deal as I haven't
contributed much.  Most of my clients do not allow me to bring my laptop on
thier network
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RE: Bug 0 review pls

[Jonathan Jesse]

Sorry for the top posting... My phone messes up bottom posting Anyways .ore 
to coem later.   Check out the conversation in regards to gui on the server we 
had previously  on thos list

-Original Message-
From: Dan Shearer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 6:05 PM
To: Matt Darcy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: Bug 0 review pls

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 04:59:10PM +0100, Matt Darcy wrote:
> Dan Shearer wrote:
> > I have put some text for Bug 0 up at 
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Bug0
  :
> The aim of the text in the wiki page appears to (in my opinion) be aimed 
> at small/medium intergration targets, which is of course a viable 
> market, hence the focus on things like "gui tools".

That's interesting (and quite possibly valid) but when I wrote it entire focus
of my interest was on medium/large integration targets. It needs to be
understood that in these sorts of corporate markets -- large banks, telcos,
mil/aero, etc -- GUI tools are a precondition to even having a discussion. It
is true that Microsoft is now working hard on producing commandline tools, but
that's an extra. 

Ah, reading further down, you're referring to GUI tools as pretty sugar. Yes,
that would be a poor goal.  We need things that have the concept of repeating
operations on groups of servers, tools like webmine don't even know multiple
servers exist let alone how they might be related! Imagine something with the
topographical understanding of a well-configured nagios and the detailed
operation ability of webmin/$BETTER, and with authentication and fine-grained
ACL control everywhere you browse/manage via LDAP/AD integration, and that's
what I have in mind. I strongly dislike Microsoft Systems Management Server,
but out of the box it is better than anything I can get from OSS with less than
weeks of fiddling. To me GUI tools should build on underlying infrastructure
for provisioning and configuration management, as well as status reporting and
hands-on management for entire networks.

As to the rest of your message, I thought there were really good points there
and I'll reply in another thread about strategy for release cycle and
maintenance. As a detail, you focussed on real hardware installs
whereas very many server installs happen on virtual hardware these days. 

> There is also a lack of enterprise focus for me in Ubuntu server 
> currenty, tools such as

[The entire original message is not included]

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Re: Ubuntu Server graphical interface?

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Serge van Ginderachter <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > The "GUI" should be web based. And the framework needs to store
>
> It should at least not be some X app. As fart as I'm concerned, it could
> even be some curses console app.
> Or such a curses app could be one of the front ends.
>
> > information in an open database, that is a databse that can be
> > accessed, plugged into and added to
>
> It very much depends on which kind of data you are referring to.
> A lot of the configuration data already is stored somewhere (/etc).
> Some databases already are readily available (ldap?)
>
> My point, be carefull not tu build the n-th new database backend.
>
> At first sight, I would be inclined to have a look at what can be stored
> in the Samba 4 ldap backend.
>
> Tools just would need to
> - interface with that ldap backend, for easy maintenance
> - services connect to that ldap backend to implement the settings (think
> something like landscape client?)
>
>
>
>
>Serge
>
>  Serge van Ginderachter  http://www.vanginderachter.be/
>
>  Kreeg u een "odt" bestand en kan u deze niet openen? Zie
> http://ginsys.be/odf
>
>
>
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>

If we are going to continue to build around Samaba v4, can we get the data
out easily?  That's the point of the database.  Reporting across one or more
computers/servers
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Re: Ubuntu Server graphical interface?

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Serge van Ginderachter <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Hi folks,
>
>
> My 2 cents along the line.
>
>
> I'm picking into this discussion, and spit out some different thought on
> the matter, to broaden the subject.
> Some of these thought might be off-topic for this thread, but I'm pretty
> confident they are very on topic on this list.
>
> I'm looking at this, as a former 100% MS shop engineer, having worked for
> different small businesses, and with the needs to quickly setup an
> environment for small workgroups. And with 'small' I mean lots of workgroups
> strating from a coouple of users up to somewhere between 15 or 30 users. The
> needs are comparable to what one needs for say 75 users, but the budget is
> very different. That's where a product like Microsoft Small Business Server
> rules most networks. Technically, it sucks, but for basic stuff, it hgets
> the job done.
>
>
> - "Martin Hess" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Serge has pointed out what should probably be a 5th requirement.
> > * Easy to use
> > No point in having a GUI that is difficult to use. Windows is full of
> > examples of such GUIs and gave GUIs a bad name. Additionally, if the
> > tool makes it possible to manage a set of machines at the expense of
> > managing 1 machine easily then it has failed the ease of use test.
>
> When I'm making an assessment of what is needed, I distinct two big
> things:
>
> 1. some gui for *basic* day to day configuration, the kind of stuff a
> power user @customer needs to manage himself
>  - first en foremost, user management, including central and single
> authentication, and ideally linked to other things that are important to a
> user:
>* email address and mailbox management
>* managing access to network resources, and managing the desktop
> environment so the user easily connects to them (eg. shared network drives)
>  - managing updates
>  - managing ip addresses, dns, dhcp, ...
>  - managing shared printers
> 2. easy setup and management for all hosts belonging to a network
>  I can't hold myself to compare to the Microsoft "domain" model, where
> lots of basic stuff is easily centrally managed
>
> > Here is the requirements list so far:
> >
> > 1) Optional - must not be required for Ubuntu Server
> > 2) Secure - must not have known security issues, must have good known
> > security architecture
> > 3) Scalable - must be able to administer sets of machines
> > 4) Open Source
> > 5) Easy to use - for 1 or more machines
> >
> > Are there any packages that can meet such requirements?
>
> Not AFAIK.
>
>  - ebox is a starter, but only manages a local pc, not a network domain
>  - landscape does some basic stuff, also, but is way to basic imho. and it
> doesnt handle central authentication. and it's not free software
>read up on
> http://www.vanginderachter.be/2008/canonical-landscape-for-ubuntu/ for
> more of my thoughts on this;
>
> Some other thoughts:
>
> * What we really need is a framework for this. Make a good framework, and
> GUI stuff will follow. Making some GUIS to solve all problems without being
> able to operate by CLI is not the way to go.
> * one of the lead projects to take into acount, imho, is Samba 4, which
> would be the Active Directory tool on open SOurce. Samba is becoming more
> and more the de facto standard for a lot of stuff, and might be the project
> to pick to further standardize on.
> * eg. LDAP is a standard, but there is no standard address book scheme,
> which all mail clients adhere to.
> * there ain't something as a standard Samba implementation
>
> As Martin noted, it's about ease of use. All of this stuff already exists.
> But there just isn't a standardized way to implement it. It's pretty stupid
> for having to reinvent the wheel for each small customer.
>
> I'm looking forward on other people's thoughts on all of this and more.
>
>
>
>Serge
>
>  Serge van Ginderachter  http://www.vanginderachter.be/
>
>  Kreeg u een "odt" bestand en kan u deze niet openen? Zie
> http://ginsys.be/odf
>
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>

The "GUI" should be web based. And the framework needs to store information
in an open database, that is a databse that can be accessed, plugged into
and added to
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Re: Server Team needs (i.e. Roles)

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Feb 8, 2008 12:22 AM, Scott Kitterman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  On Thursday 07 February 2008 17:50, Michael Behrens wrote:
> > Heya Folks,
> >
> > Just a quick question to the group, what would we identify as being
> needed
> > most right
> > now in the team.  By this I mean, do we have a greater need for bug
> > triagers,
> > documentation, specialists (i.e. mysql, apache, ldap), etc.. etc..
> >
> > If we had to prioritize the types/roles we were looking for, what would
> > they be?
> >
> I think what we most need is to define people to take the lead in
> different
> interest areas within server.  Mostly I do mail servers and that's where
> my
> interest is.  I'm quite willing to help out with maintaining packages, bug
> triaging, and user support in this area.  Don't ask me about PHP though.
>
> I think people in the team need to have some idea of which direction to
> go/point people if they have a question in a specific area.  I think in
> different areas, the answers would be different.
>
> In the mail server area I think triaging is up to date and the individual
> packages are in good shape.  What's needed is better integration and
> documentation to make it easier on the end user.
>
> Scott K
>
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>

I think we started defining some of these roles w/ Adam taking over the role
as lead for the Doc part of things.  Correct me if wrong?
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Re: docs for dapper upgrade?

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Feb 3, 2008 1:08 AM, Dan Trevino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> We need to document how people will be expected to upgrade server
> installation, IMO.  I tried this evening and udev blew up.  I can probably
> work around it, but I think we should have this in the server guide (and
> other places).
>
> I did try googling around the wiki and h.u.c, but found only references to
> using update-manager, which comes with a ton of gui dependencies, and so I
> assume is oriented to the desktop, so if there is documentation, it should
> be more prominent.
>
> tia,
> dan
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>
I wonder if this is currently covered in the server guide?  I think it
should be
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Re: Server issues

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Wednesday 21 November 2007 13:47:13 David L. Willson wrote:
> I'll bet Soren is rather more in touch with the corporate direction for
> Ubuntu Server than either of us.  Let's speak only on our own part.
>
> Here's my opinion:  I'll be sad to see "Ubuntu Server" become jeOS.  I
> liked the fact that Ubuntu had both poles, the best (most featureful)
> Linux Desktop, and the best (smallest group of core components) Linux
> Server.  Now, jeOS will be the best Linux Server by my definition, and
> Ubuntu Server will really be Ubuntu Server for Beginners.
>


>From the discussion at UDS-Boston JeOS was not going to replace Ubuntu Server. 
> 
In fact the server team has a lot of cool things on its plate.  In fact as 
far as I can tell jeOS or however it is correctly spelled is nothing more 
then a version of Ubuntu to help you setup and run Virtual Machines with a 
more stripped down kernel.

Please correct me if I am wrong as well.

Thanks,

Jonathan


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Re: Upcoming Ubuntu Server Meeting - Tuesday, 20th of November - 15:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Monday 19 November 2007 10:48:35 Mathias Gug wrote:
> The next Ubuntu Server Meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, November 20th,
> 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.
>
> If there are any discussion points or items for decision that you would
> like to add to the agenda, please update
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting with your agenda item, and
> begin preparations to present a short introduction to the topic on
> #ubuntu-meeting during the scheduled session.
>
> As usual, anyone interested in the development of Ubuntu Server is
> welcome to attend.
>
> --
> Mathias

Would love to join and have added it to my calendar.  I am currently in 
training for work and don't know if I'll be able to get someplace w/ an 
internet connection.

Jonathan

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Re: Call to current maintainer of the server guide

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Tuesday 06 November 2007 13:40:14 Matthew East wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 06/11/2007, Jonathan Jesse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Let me explain my two thoughts on this:
> >
> > 1.  If you want to start contributing to the server guide how do you do
> > you start?  Where do you find the server guide?  The goal is to ease
> > contribution to the server guide instaed of having to checkout the entire
> > ubuntu-hardy branch and just work on the serverguide-hardy branch
>
> Personally I think the advantages of having the material in the ubuntu
> branch outweigh this - as per my last email it's very easy to find and
> a lightweight checkout of the branch is very quick.
>
> > 2.  The server team wants to ship the serverguide as part of the build.
> > Wouldn't it be easier to ship the serverguide and that is it, instead of
> > having to ship the entire ubuntu-docs packavge?
>
> I don't think you've investigated properly how this is currently done
> - the serverguide is already shipped in a separate package. It is in
> the ubuntu-serverguide package which is totally separate from the
> ubuntu-docs binary package (although the ubuntu-docs binary package
> also uses the same sever material for the desktop help). Both packages
> build out of the ubuntu-docs source package. As far as I know the
> ubuntu-serverguide package is included in a standard ubuntu server
> installation - if not then it is trivial to add it.


I was under the impression the server guide was both not updated for the 
release and also not a part of the server release.  Can someone correct me if 
wrong on both things?

I'm just trying to ease this the ability to update and continue to release a 
great guide based on some discussion from UDS

Please correct me if I'm wrong

Jonathan

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Re: Call to current maintainer of the server guide

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Tuesday 06 November 2007 03:10:50 Matthew East wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 06/11/2007, Jonathan Jesse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Who is the current maintainer of the server guide that is currently in
> > bzr? As discussed at UDS-Boston, I would like to move it from the current
> > location in ubuntu/generic/serverguide to serverguide-hardy to match what
> > is currently being used in kubuntu-hardy, ubuntu-hardy, etc.
>
> I'd like to hear more about the justification for this - the
> ubuntu-serverguide package currently builds nicely from the
> ubuntu-docs source package and we are using the material in the
> desktop documentation for ubuntu-docs as well. It's pretty helpful to
> have it in the same branch I think.
>
> If we start creating new branches for each generic document that might
> be used by other derivatives, things are going to get super confusing.
> Currently we are making a distinction between our branches for
> derivatives, and the serverguide is not (only) documentation for a
> specific derivative, it's documentation that is used in Ubuntu (and
> possibly xubuntu too?).
>
> > The goal of the discussion was this would ease the entry for those that
> > are willing to contribute wouldn't have to dig around through
> > ubuntu/generic/serverguide to contribute?
>
> To be honest, I don't think this is much of a barrier. It's pretty
> simply to state where to find the document at
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects

Matt,

Let me explain my two thoughts on this:

1.  If you want to start contributing to the server guide how do you do you 
start?  Where do you find the server guide?  The goal is to ease contribution 
to the server guide instaed of having to checkout the entire ubuntu-hardy 
branch and just work on the serverguide-hardy branch

2.  The server team wants to ship the serverguide as part of the build.  
Wouldn't it be easier to ship the serverguide and that is it, instead of 
having to ship the entire ubuntu-docs packavge?

I think both of these are good enough reasons to split off to a seperate 
branch.  I don't think there are any more branches we need to worry about 
splitting off.

Jonathan

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Re: Server Documentation Roadmap

[Jonathan Jesse]

On Monday 05 November 2007 23:05:23 Bhuvaneswaran A wrote:
> On 11/2/07, Jonathan Jesse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Good evening Doc Writers and Server Team,
> >
> > At UDS-Boston in the server meeting area we discussed the spec "Improve
> > Ubuntu Server Documentation", found at this link:
> > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-documentation.
> >
> > We had several ideas that I would like to share with the group and would
> > like feedback:
> >
> > 1.  Update the server guide for each release (specifically focus on 8.04
> > as it is a long term release)
> > a.  Make sure it is posted on help.ubuntu.com in html and
> > available for download in PDF
> > b.  Ship it in raw text so that it can be read on the server
> > without a GUI 2.  keep help.ubuntu.com/Community full of How-To's that
> > have been vetted by someone from the Server Team
>
> We are updating server guide as much as possible for every release.
> During last release, Adam have contributed several patches in these
> lines. We should continue this effort for every release.
>
> > I've copied the server team so they can add to the discussion as well and
> > also if there is someone from the Server Team who is willing to be a
> > point to help increase the communication between the server team and the
> > documentation team.
>
> If we are going to get help or feedback from the server team, that
> would definitely help us to improve the quality of this guide. They
> may have more idea of what applications go in with server and we can
> tune the guide accordingly.
>
> Do we have point in contact for server team who can provide us
> feedback on server guide?

I posted a request for the point person and am willing to take the lead in 
communicating with the server guys.  Unless Adam, or yourself or someone else 
will take the roll.

Jonathan

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Wiki Related Specs

[Jonathan Jesse]

The doc team has an interesting discussion in regards to several specs they 
have on launchpad... 
Feel free to join the discussion
https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/improve-website-structure
https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+spec/help-wiki-quality-assurance

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Call to current maintainer of the server guide

[Jonathan Jesse]

Who is the current maintainer of the server guide that is currently in bzr?  
As discussed at UDS-Boston, I would like to move it from the current location 
in ubuntu/generic/serverguide to serverguide-hardy to match what is currently 
being used in kubuntu-hardy, ubuntu-hardy, etc.

The goal of the discussion was this would ease the entry for those that are 
willing to contribute wouldn't have to dig around through 
ubuntu/generic/serverguide to contribute?

Thanks,

Jonathan

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bzr buddy?

[Jonathan Jesse]

At UDS someone from the server team mentioned something about bzr buddy or 
something where a buddy commits and then someone has to verify or something.  
Can that person refresh my memory and also someone I could talk to in regards 
to maybe adding some verification/quality ot the documentation team?

Thanks,

Jonathan

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Server Documentation Roadmap

[Jonathan Jesse]

Good evening Doc Writers and Server Team,

At UDS-Boston in the server meeting area we discussed the spec "Improve Ubuntu 
Server Documentation", found at this link: 
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-documentation.

We had several ideas that I would like to share with the group and would like 
feedback:

1.  Update the server guide for each release (specifically focus on 8.04 as it 
is a long term release)
a.  Make sure it is posted on help.ubuntu.com in html and available for 
download in PDF
b.  Ship it in raw text so that it can be read on the server without a 
GUI
2.  keep help.ubuntu.com/Community full of How-To's that have been vetted by 
someone from the Server Team

One of things we also discussed is increasing communications between the 
Server Team and the Documentation Team to make sure the guides on both 
help.ubuntu.com/Community and the ServerGuide are both accurate and up to 
date.
I've copied the server team so they can add to the discussion as well and also 
if there is someone from the Server Team who is willing to be a point to help 
increase the communication between the server team and the documentation 
team.

Please feel to respond with comments and suggestions.

Thanks,

Jontahan

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