Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
Which George are you referring to? George Harrison, George Weasley, or Curious George? :D (sorry, can't stop myself) Rgds, On 2011-04-03, Clint Byrum wrote: > Excerpts from Dustin Kirkland's message of Sat Apr 02 08:14:48 -0700 2011: >> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: >> > I took your statement of "we'll have almost everything we need." to >> > mean, we'll have almost everything we need to make it the default >> > terminal shell. >> >> Hey Clint, one important clarification here. Just need to update the >> vocabulary here... >> >> This isn't about byobu as a "default shell". Byobu/screen is not a >> shell itself, but rather a "command line window manager". It's a >> program that runs within a shell, and allows you to launch and manage >> dozens (40, by default) of shells within a single user process. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing) > > "A shell is a piece of software that provides an interface for users of > an operating system which provides access to the services of a kernel." > > We can call it a shell, a command line window manager, or George. What > is being proposed is that it become the default user interface for the > CLI of Ubuntu. > > -- > ubuntu-server mailing list > ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server > More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam > -- -- Pandu E Poluan - IT Optimizer My website: http://pandu.poluan.info/ -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
Well, I do use Byobu, but I would vote against its default on server... You see, I use both Windows and Ubuntu to manage my Ubuntu servers (and I guess I am not the only one), and on Windows, I have to use a few different terminal emulators to SSH my way into the servers, such as Putty and SecureCRT... but Byobu simply wont work on them (most likely due to a escape code missing or to many, it will fill up the screen on byobu updates rolling up, instead of keeping to the bottom) Therefore, I use byobu only whe I am already at a Ubuntu machine (or other linux, for that matter) 2011/4/2 Dustin Kirkland > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: > > I took your statement of "we'll have almost everything we need." to > > mean, we'll have almost everything we need to make it the default > > terminal shell. > > Hey Clint, one important clarification here. Just need to update the > vocabulary here... > > This isn't about byobu as a "default shell". Byobu/screen is not a > shell itself, but rather a "command line window manager". It's a > program that runs within a shell, and allows you to launch and manage > dozens (40, by default) of shells within a single user process. > > Your default shell is bash, or dash, ash, csh, tsh, ksh, etc. etc. > etc. All of those do (or at least should -- file bugs if not) work > just fine under Linux. Ubuntu chooses a default user shell of bash > for you. There's no intention to change that. > > The way "byobu at login" currently works is by adding a line to the > very end of your ~/.profile: > case "$-" in *i*) byobu-launcher && exit 0; esac; > > This says "if the shell being launched is interactive, then run byobu > and exit when byobu is done". There is always room for improvement > there, and that's part of what a blueprint would design and fix. > > Anyway, this is an interesting point in the thread. I'm going to put > together a blog post that actually walks through all of what happens > when you login into an Ubuntu command line shell, from a low-level > technical perspective ;-) > > -- > :-Dustin > > Dustin Kirkland > Ubuntu Core Developer > > -- > ubuntu-server mailing list > ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server > More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam > -- Fábio Leitão ..-. .- -... .. --- .-.. . .. - .- --- ...-.- -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
Excerpts from Dustin Kirkland's message of Sat Apr 02 08:14:48 -0700 2011: > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: > > I took your statement of "we'll have almost everything we need." to > > mean, we'll have almost everything we need to make it the default > > terminal shell. > > Hey Clint, one important clarification here. Just need to update the > vocabulary here... > > This isn't about byobu as a "default shell". Byobu/screen is not a > shell itself, but rather a "command line window manager". It's a > program that runs within a shell, and allows you to launch and manage > dozens (40, by default) of shells within a single user process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing) "A shell is a piece of software that provides an interface for users of an operating system which provides access to the services of a kernel." We can call it a shell, a command line window manager, or George. What is being proposed is that it become the default user interface for the CLI of Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: > I took your statement of "we'll have almost everything we need." to > mean, we'll have almost everything we need to make it the default > terminal shell. Hey Clint, one important clarification here. Just need to update the vocabulary here... This isn't about byobu as a "default shell". Byobu/screen is not a shell itself, but rather a "command line window manager". It's a program that runs within a shell, and allows you to launch and manage dozens (40, by default) of shells within a single user process. Your default shell is bash, or dash, ash, csh, tsh, ksh, etc. etc. etc. All of those do (or at least should -- file bugs if not) work just fine under Linux. Ubuntu chooses a default user shell of bash for you. There's no intention to change that. The way "byobu at login" currently works is by adding a line to the very end of your ~/.profile: case "$-" in *i*) byobu-launcher && exit 0; esac; This says "if the shell being launched is interactive, then run byobu and exit when byobu is done". There is always room for improvement there, and that's part of what a blueprint would design and fix. Anyway, this is an interesting point in the thread. I'm going to put together a blog post that actually walks through all of what happens when you login into an Ubuntu command line shell, from a low-level technical perspective ;-) -- :-Dustin Dustin Kirkland Ubuntu Core Developer -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: > Presumably this would only be enabled in the /etc/skel default bashrc, > and so, existing users would not suddenly see byobu on their next login. There are several different ways to handle it, but I was thinking about using the debconf/preseed element that's been in byobu since Lucid, byobu/launch-by-default, which is currently defaulted to "false". I think we could handle the upgrade situation cleanly with logic in the config and postinst parts of the debconf handling. -- :-Dustin Dustin Kirkland Ubuntu Core Developer -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: > I opened a bug to get some feedback: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/byobu/+bug/747649 Perfect, thanks! > I think its well documented and works fine. My main concern is that it > interrupts the normal flow to have to logout and back in to disable the > nesting. Good point. I have a few ideas about that too, and some prototype code that would allow you to detach from byobu/screen, but still be in a shell (rather than the current default detach && exit). BTW, you can modify the behavior of byobu, as to whether it detaches and exits, or just detaches (and leaves you at a shell). Simply use: $ byobu-launcher-install --no-logout See for details: * http://manpages.ubuntu.com/byobu-launcher-install > Thats sort of the opposite of all those who haven't started using byobu > yet, whom we're suggesting may be opted in to it soon. Great point. I need you and others point out those sorts of things to me and other 2nd-nature byobu users. > This one isn't a total deal killer. I am concerned that going forward w/o > some plan for how to handle nested sessions smoothly would be a missed > opportunity to give a lot of users a really great first impression > of byobu. Ack. 100% agree. > Count me in for a session about byobu development. \o/ -- :-Dustin Dustin Kirkland Ubuntu Core Developer -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
Excerpts from Scott Kitterman's message of Fri Apr 01 12:16:28 -0700 2011: > On Friday, April 01, 2011 03:12:56 PM Clint Byrum wrote: > > I took your statement of "we'll have almost everything we need." to > > mean, we'll have almost everything we need to make it the default > > terminal shell. > > If you go down this route, please on new installs only. If a system is being > upgraded it's presumably set up the way the admin wants it. Presumably this would only be enabled in the /etc/skel default bashrc, and so, existing users would not suddenly see byobu on their next login. -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
On Friday, April 01, 2011 03:12:56 PM Clint Byrum wrote: > I took your statement of "we'll have almost everything we need." to > mean, we'll have almost everything we need to make it the default > terminal shell. If you go down this route, please on new installs only. If a system is being upgraded it's presumably set up the way the admin wants it. Scott K -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
Excerpts from Dustin Kirkland's message of Fri Apr 01 10:43:02 -0700 2011: > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Clint Byrum wrote: > > Excerpts from Dustin Kirkland's message of Fri Apr 01 07:08:31 -0700 2011: > >> 2011/4/1 Raphaël Pinson : > >> > Also, a few years back, I had begun to work on making screen ACLs > >> > easier in byobu, but had not found the time to finish that part. Since > >> > Ubuntu encourages the use of user accounts vs root, this is a feature > >> > that could be very useful on Ubuntu servers I think. > >> > >> That's a great idea, Raphael. Actually, I was talking with Dave > >> Walker about this recently. Basically, I'm just going to move the > >> screen configuration magic from screenbin into byobu, and I think > >> we'll have almost everything we need. > >> > > > > Maybe I'm missing something here.. but this seems to happen to me > > whenever I enable "byobu by default" (last time I did this in earnest > > was for a week around 10.10 beta1, but I simluated it again just now on > > natty beta1 to confirm its still this way): > > Clint, > > We're talking about two different things. What you're talking about > is the behavior of one system user on the system, logging in multiple > times, from multiple different places. > > We're talking about GNU screen's built in ACL feature, where one user > can share a session (optionally with read/write, or read/only) to a > different system user. So user 'kirkland' could share his session > with user 'Spamaps', or 'guest'. > I took your statement of "we'll have almost everything we need." to mean, we'll have almost everything we need to make it the default terminal shell. > > [ from inside byobu ] > > clint@laptop:~$ sshlucid-box-that-has-byobu-on > > > > I know that had it been a later release it would ask me about the nested > > session. I am not sure that is all that great as well, how about just > > making the default answer N and not even asking? I know sometimes you > > do want a nested session... but I'd bet guess thats a special case and > > usually not what users want, and is handled very well by running 'byobu' > > Even a simple echo 'You have an active byobu session..' would be better > > than stopping to ask me a question. > > Interesting. Sure, we can make that configurable, at the very least. > And we should absolutely discuss the most sensible default behavior. > That's absolutely a valid point, and something that should definitely > be reconsidered. > I opened a bug to get some feedback: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/byobu/+bug/747649 > > Anyway, since this is a lucid remote box, now I have *4* lines of byobu > > hotness at the bottom. Also I hit F2 to go to the next window. OOPS, > > my ssh session disappeared because I'm only controlling the local > > byobu. I want to scroll back on the remote machine to see what I did > > 5 minutes ago. Oops, the scrollback capabilities are gone because my > > local terminal has been told its got a window now. Ctrl-A-A-ESC will > > get me into the screen backscroll/copy/paste mode, but by this time, > > honestly.. I'm very, very annoyed and just want my bash back. > > You can *always* get around byobu launching by default by running: > > $ ssh -t remotehost bash > > I use this frequently when ssh'ing elsewhere from within Byobu, if I > don't want a nested session. This probably needs to be documented > better. > I think its well documented and works fine. My main concern is that it interrupts the normal flow to have to logout and back in to disable the nesting. > > Until the mechanics flow between terminals and ssh sessions in a way > > that makes sense to me, I'll find it very hard to be a +1. > > Fair enough. It's really just a matter of knowing where you are, and > how to drive. It's second nature to me, at this point. > Thats sort of the opposite of all those who haven't started using byobu yet, whom we're suggesting may be opted in to it soon. This one isn't a total deal killer. I am concerned that going forward w/o some plan for how to handle nested sessions smoothly would be a missed opportunity to give a lot of users a really great first impression of byobu. > > Has there been any thought given to focusing on making byobu work in > > a more client/server way where a remote byobu knows it is talking to > > a byobu terminal, and so can integrate well into it (so add its status > > to the local byobu rather than adding another status line.. and letting > > f-keys be split between local / remote). > > > > THAT would make it smooth, and would probably turn me into a fan. > > To be honest, no I haven't given much thought specifically about it, > though that sounds like a great topic for Oneiric byobu development. > > The code that currently handles this (in case you want to toy with it > yourself) is in /usr/bin/byobu-launcher. See the: > case "$TERM" in *screen*) #handle nesting ... > section of that shell script. This is where we could do
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Clint Byrum wrote: > Excerpts from Dustin Kirkland's message of Fri Apr 01 07:08:31 -0700 2011: >> 2011/4/1 Raphaël Pinson : >> > Also, a few years back, I had begun to work on making screen ACLs >> > easier in byobu, but had not found the time to finish that part. Since >> > Ubuntu encourages the use of user accounts vs root, this is a feature >> > that could be very useful on Ubuntu servers I think. >> >> That's a great idea, Raphael. Actually, I was talking with Dave >> Walker about this recently. Basically, I'm just going to move the >> screen configuration magic from screenbin into byobu, and I think >> we'll have almost everything we need. >> > > Maybe I'm missing something here.. but this seems to happen to me > whenever I enable "byobu by default" (last time I did this in earnest > was for a week around 10.10 beta1, but I simluated it again just now on > natty beta1 to confirm its still this way): Clint, We're talking about two different things. What you're talking about is the behavior of one system user on the system, logging in multiple times, from multiple different places. We're talking about GNU screen's built in ACL feature, where one user can share a session (optionally with read/write, or read/only) to a different system user. So user 'kirkland' could share his session with user 'Spamaps', or 'guest'. > [ from inside byobu ] > clint@laptop:~$ sshlucid-box-that-has-byobu-on > > I know that had it been a later release it would ask me about the nested > session. I am not sure that is all that great as well, how about just > making the default answer N and not even asking? I know sometimes you > do want a nested session... but I'd bet guess thats a special case and > usually not what users want, and is handled very well by running 'byobu' > Even a simple echo 'You have an active byobu session..' would be better > than stopping to ask me a question. Interesting. Sure, we can make that configurable, at the very least. And we should absolutely discuss the most sensible default behavior. That's absolutely a valid point, and something that should definitely be reconsidered. > Anyway, since this is a lucid remote box, now I have *4* lines of byobu > hotness at the bottom. Also I hit F2 to go to the next window. OOPS, > my ssh session disappeared because I'm only controlling the local > byobu. I want to scroll back on the remote machine to see what I did > 5 minutes ago. Oops, the scrollback capabilities are gone because my > local terminal has been told its got a window now. Ctrl-A-A-ESC will > get me into the screen backscroll/copy/paste mode, but by this time, > honestly.. I'm very, very annoyed and just want my bash back. You can *always* get around byobu launching by default by running: $ ssh -t remotehost bash I use this frequently when ssh'ing elsewhere from within Byobu, if I don't want a nested session. This probably needs to be documented better. > Until the mechanics flow between terminals and ssh sessions in a way > that makes sense to me, I'll find it very hard to be a +1. Fair enough. It's really just a matter of knowing where you are, and how to drive. It's second nature to me, at this point. > Has there been any thought given to focusing on making byobu work in > a more client/server way where a remote byobu knows it is talking to > a byobu terminal, and so can integrate well into it (so add its status > to the local byobu rather than adding another status line.. and letting > f-keys be split between local / remote). > > THAT would make it smooth, and would probably turn me into a fan. To be honest, no I haven't given much thought specifically about it, though that sounds like a great topic for Oneiric byobu development. The code that currently handles this (in case you want to toy with it yourself) is in /usr/bin/byobu-launcher. See the: case "$TERM" in *screen*) #handle nesting ... section of that shell script. This is where we could do something smarter. Thanks for the feedback, Clint! -- :-Dustin Dustin Kirkland Ubuntu Core Developer -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
Excerpts from Dustin Kirkland's message of Fri Apr 01 07:08:31 -0700 2011: > 2011/4/1 Raphaël Pinson : > > Also, a few years back, I had begun to work on making screen ACLs > > easier in byobu, but had not found the time to finish that part. Since > > Ubuntu encourages the use of user accounts vs root, this is a feature > > that could be very useful on Ubuntu servers I think. > > That's a great idea, Raphael. Actually, I was talking with Dave > Walker about this recently. Basically, I'm just going to move the > screen configuration magic from screenbin into byobu, and I think > we'll have almost everything we need. > Maybe I'm missing something here.. but this seems to happen to me whenever I enable "byobu by default" (last time I did this in earnest was for a week around 10.10 beta1, but I simluated it again just now on natty beta1 to confirm its still this way): [ from inside byobu ] clint@laptop:~$ sshlucid-box-that-has-byobu-on I know that had it been a later release it would ask me about the nested session. I am not sure that is all that great as well, how about just making the default answer N and not even asking? I know sometimes you do want a nested session... but I'd bet guess thats a special case and usually not what users want, and is handled very well by running 'byobu' Even a simple echo 'You have an active byobu session..' would be better than stopping to ask me a question. Anyway, since this is a lucid remote box, now I have *4* lines of byobu hotness at the bottom. Also I hit F2 to go to the next window. OOPS, my ssh session disappeared because I'm only controlling the local byobu. I want to scroll back on the remote machine to see what I did 5 minutes ago. Oops, the scrollback capabilities are gone because my local terminal has been told its got a window now. Ctrl-A-A-ESC will get me into the screen backscroll/copy/paste mode, but by this time, honestly.. I'm very, very annoyed and just want my bash back. Until the mechanics flow between terminals and ssh sessions in a way that makes sense to me, I'll find it very hard to be a +1. Has there been any thought given to focusing on making byobu work in a more client/server way where a remote byobu knows it is talking to a byobu terminal, and so can integrate well into it (so add its status to the local byobu rather than adding another status line.. and letting f-keys be split between local / remote). THAT would make it smooth, and would probably turn me into a fan. -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
> I have a prototype (based on an old version of byobu) on [0], which Missing the link, sorry: https://code.launchpad.net/~raphink/byobu/acl Raphaël -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Dustin Kirkland wrote: > On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Serge E. Hallyn > wrote: >> Quoting Dustin Kirkland (kirkl...@ubuntu.com): >>> 2011/4/1 Raphaël Pinson : >>> > Also, a few years back, I had begun to work on making screen ACLs >>> > easier in byobu, but had not found the time to finish that part. Since >>> > Ubuntu encourages the use of user accounts vs root, this is a feature >>> > that could be very useful on Ubuntu servers I think. >>> >>> That's a great idea, Raphael. Actually, I was talking with Dave >>> Walker about this recently. Basically, I'm just going to move the >>> screen configuration magic from screenbin into byobu, and I think >>> we'll have almost everything we need. >> >> Use of acls requires a setuid-root screen binary, though, right? That's >> a huge change. > > Correctly I identified, Serge! You have dug into the "almost" in the > "we'll have almost everything we need" statement above :-) > > So here's what I'm thinking ... > > 1) Byobu would ship a profile in /usr/share/byobu/profiles/sharing > that has the relevant configuration bits. Top of my head, that's > mostly this (where the guest user is called "guest"). I'll need to do > some work to make this configurable. > > aclumask guest+r guest-w guest-x > aclchg guest +r-w-x '#?' > aclchg guest +x 'prev,next,select,detach' > multiuser on > That's a good idea for basic needs. > 2) Byobu would add a dialog to the F9:Menu that allows you to choose > the user you want to share the screen with, and select read-only or > read-write. It would also run something like > '/usr/bin/byobu-verify-sharing' and check the exit code and stderr > text. I have a prototype (based on an old version of byobu) on [0], which allows to choose the users you want to add and which rights you want to grant. I gave up developing it a year ago because I was stuck with screen ACLs parsing. To be clear, screen lets you set ACLs, but not see the ACLs you set, so my code worked fine as long as you only used byobu for ACLs, but it was a big mess if you began using screen directly since byobu was unaware of the changes. > 3) /usr/bin/byobu-verify-sharing would check the permissions on > /usr/bin/screen. If the permissions are incorrect, it would print > some text to the screen that your system administrator would need to > run in order to use screen sharing. Again, top of my head it might > look something like this: > > $ byobu-verify-sharing > ERROR: byobu screen sharing is not enabled > INFO: (1-2 lines here about setuid binaries, and why screen is not > setuid by default) > INFO: To enable byobu screen sharing, a system administrator must run: > sudo dpkg-statoverride --add root utmp 6755 /usr/bin/screen > sudo chmod 755 /var/run/screen > $ echo $? > 1 My current code does this kind of check already. > > 4) We could also add a "low" debconf question to the screen (or > byobu) package that asks this question at dpkg-reconfigure time (do > you want to enable screen sharing, setuid bits, on /usr/bin/screen). > That was my thought too (adding a debconf question). That, or using policykit in byobu to let users run the dpkg-statoverride without interacting with debconf. Is that possible? Raphaël -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Serge E. Hallyn wrote: > Quoting Dustin Kirkland (kirkl...@ubuntu.com): >> 2011/4/1 Raphaël Pinson : >> > Also, a few years back, I had begun to work on making screen ACLs >> > easier in byobu, but had not found the time to finish that part. Since >> > Ubuntu encourages the use of user accounts vs root, this is a feature >> > that could be very useful on Ubuntu servers I think. >> >> That's a great idea, Raphael. Actually, I was talking with Dave >> Walker about this recently. Basically, I'm just going to move the >> screen configuration magic from screenbin into byobu, and I think >> we'll have almost everything we need. > > Use of acls requires a setuid-root screen binary, though, right? That's > a huge change. Correctly I identified, Serge! You have dug into the "almost" in the "we'll have almost everything we need" statement above :-) So here's what I'm thinking ... 1) Byobu would ship a profile in /usr/share/byobu/profiles/sharing that has the relevant configuration bits. Top of my head, that's mostly this (where the guest user is called "guest"). I'll need to do some work to make this configurable. aclumask guest+r guest-w guest-x aclchg guest +r-w-x '#?' aclchg guest +x 'prev,next,select,detach' multiuser on 2) Byobu would add a dialog to the F9:Menu that allows you to choose the user you want to share the screen with, and select read-only or read-write. It would also run something like '/usr/bin/byobu-verify-sharing' and check the exit code and stderr text. 3) /usr/bin/byobu-verify-sharing would check the permissions on /usr/bin/screen. If the permissions are incorrect, it would print some text to the screen that your system administrator would need to run in order to use screen sharing. Again, top of my head it might look something like this: $ byobu-verify-sharing ERROR: byobu screen sharing is not enabled INFO: (1-2 lines here about setuid binaries, and why screen is not setuid by default) INFO: To enable byobu screen sharing, a system administrator must run: sudo dpkg-statoverride --add root utmp 6755 /usr/bin/screen sudo chmod 755 /var/run/screen $ echo $? 1 4) We could also add a "low" debconf question to the screen (or byobu) package that asks this question at dpkg-reconfigure time (do you want to enable screen sharing, setuid bits, on /usr/bin/screen). Anyway, that's what I'm thinking. Any other ideas? -- :-Dustin Dustin Kirkland Ubuntu Core Developer -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
Quoting Dustin Kirkland (kirkl...@ubuntu.com): > 2011/4/1 Raphaël Pinson : > > Also, a few years back, I had begun to work on making screen ACLs > > easier in byobu, but had not found the time to finish that part. Since > > Ubuntu encourages the use of user accounts vs root, this is a feature > > that could be very useful on Ubuntu servers I think. > > That's a great idea, Raphael. Actually, I was talking with Dave > Walker about this recently. Basically, I'm just going to move the > screen configuration magic from screenbin into byobu, and I think > we'll have almost everything we need. Use of acls requires a setuid-root screen binary, though, right? That's a huge change. -serge signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
2011/4/1 Raphaël Pinson : > Also, a few years back, I had begun to work on making screen ACLs > easier in byobu, but had not found the time to finish that part. Since > Ubuntu encourages the use of user accounts vs root, this is a feature > that could be very useful on Ubuntu servers I think. That's a great idea, Raphael. Actually, I was talking with Dave Walker about this recently. Basically, I'm just going to move the screen configuration magic from screenbin into byobu, and I think we'll have almost everything we need. -- :-Dustin Dustin Kirkland Ubuntu Core Developer -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
I'm all for it! Also, a few years back, I had begun to work on making screen ACLs easier in byobu, but had not found the time to finish that part. Since Ubuntu encourages the use of user accounts vs root, this is a feature that could be very useful on Ubuntu servers I think. Raphaël On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:54 PM, D'nalkrik Nit-sud wrote: > I'd like to raise the (biannual) proposition that we consider > launching Byobu by default on Ubuntu Server installs for at least part > of the Oneiric cycle. As an LTS-1 release, this provides an ideal > opportunity (Alpha1-3?) to innovate and differentiate, while still > allowing for recalibration and reconsideration ahead of the subsequent > stability-focused LTS cycle. > > Byobu has come a long way in the last 2.5 years, having addressed many > of the early concerns about functionality, stability, and usability. > New features, such as horizontal and vertical splitting, and > traditional ones such as convenient keybindings and dozens of > real-time monitors provide a rich, unique command line experience for > many Ubuntu users. Byobu has won the praise of numerous users, > bloggers, and magazines, with many people swearing by its utility. > > That praise is not unanimous, of course (though what is unanimous in > Ubuntu these days?). So such a change would be easily overridden by > the following preseed parameter (and could even be a single question > in the installer): > byobu byobu/launch-by-default boolean false > > At login, the user would be clearly informed that this is brand new > behavior which can be trivially and permanently reverted with the > command: > $ byobu-disable > > Furthermore, derivative distributions should be able to cleanly and > easily opt in or out of this change. > > At the very least, I suggest that we consider enabling Byobu by > default for our cloud images that necessarily run detached and > "elsewhere" -- which is really where Byobu shines! Byobu provides > some distinct advantages over numerous indistinguishable cloud images > on the market. Shall we take a risk and innovate a bit here? At > least for a couple of non-LTS Alpha releases? Or perhaps localized to > our cloud images? > > -- > D'nalkrik Nit-sud > Registered Byobu user #0001 > > Okay, okay ... it's really Dustin Kirkland, of course. > > -- > ubuntu-server mailing list > ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server > More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam > -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
+1 for byobu by default. > From: "D'nalkrik Nit-sud" > To: Ubuntu Server Team > Date: 30/03/2011 19:55 > Subject: [Oneiric-Topic] Byobu > Sent by: ubuntu-server-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com > > I'd like to raise the (biannual) proposition that we consider > launching Byobu by default on Ubuntu Server installs for at least part > of the Oneiric cycle. As an LTS-1 release, this provides an ideal > opportunity (Alpha1-3?) to innovate and differentiate, while still > allowing for recalibration and reconsideration ahead of the subsequent > stability-focused LTS cycle. > > Byobu has come a long way in the last 2.5 years, having addressed many > of the early concerns about functionality, stability, and usability. > New features, such as horizontal and vertical splitting, and > traditional ones such as convenient keybindings and dozens of > real-time monitors provide a rich, unique command line experience for > many Ubuntu users. Byobu has won the praise of numerous users, > bloggers, and magazines, with many people swearing by its utility. > > That praise is not unanimous, of course (though what is unanimous in > Ubuntu these days?). So such a change would be easily overridden by > the following preseed parameter (and could even be a single question > in the installer): > byobu byobu/launch-by-default boolean false > > At login, the user would be clearly informed that this is brand new > behavior which can be trivially and permanently reverted with the > command: > $ byobu-disable > > Furthermore, derivative distributions should be able to cleanly and > easily opt in or out of this change. > > At the very least, I suggest that we consider enabling Byobu by > default for our cloud images that necessarily run detached and > "elsewhere" -- which is really where Byobu shines! Byobu provides > some distinct advantages over numerous indistinguishable cloud images > on the market. Shall we take a risk and innovate a bit here? At > least for a couple of non-LTS Alpha releases? Or perhaps localized to > our cloud images? > > -- > D'nalkrik Nit-sud > Registered Byobu user #0001 > > Okay, okay ... it's really Dustin Kirkland, of course. > > -- > ubuntu-server mailing list > ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server > More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
[Oneiric-Topic] Byobu
I'd like to raise the (biannual) proposition that we consider launching Byobu by default on Ubuntu Server installs for at least part of the Oneiric cycle. As an LTS-1 release, this provides an ideal opportunity (Alpha1-3?) to innovate and differentiate, while still allowing for recalibration and reconsideration ahead of the subsequent stability-focused LTS cycle. Byobu has come a long way in the last 2.5 years, having addressed many of the early concerns about functionality, stability, and usability. New features, such as horizontal and vertical splitting, and traditional ones such as convenient keybindings and dozens of real-time monitors provide a rich, unique command line experience for many Ubuntu users. Byobu has won the praise of numerous users, bloggers, and magazines, with many people swearing by its utility. That praise is not unanimous, of course (though what is unanimous in Ubuntu these days?). So such a change would be easily overridden by the following preseed parameter (and could even be a single question in the installer): byobu byobu/launch-by-default boolean false At login, the user would be clearly informed that this is brand new behavior which can be trivially and permanently reverted with the command: $ byobu-disable Furthermore, derivative distributions should be able to cleanly and easily opt in or out of this change. At the very least, I suggest that we consider enabling Byobu by default for our cloud images that necessarily run detached and "elsewhere" -- which is really where Byobu shines! Byobu provides some distinct advantages over numerous indistinguishable cloud images on the market. Shall we take a risk and innovate a bit here? At least for a couple of non-LTS Alpha releases? Or perhaps localized to our cloud images? -- D'nalkrik Nit-sud Registered Byobu user #0001 Okay, okay ... it's really Dustin Kirkland, of course. -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
