Re: [debian-mysql] [Maria-discuss] MySQL's future in Debian and Ubuntu
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Bjoern Boschman wrote: > More features even though they only apply to niche user are in general > nothing bad. Many DBAs tend to be very conservative and like a less is more approach, but personally I agree with you. I wish there was fork with everything: all the features from MariaDB *and* MySQL 5.5. And Percona, they still have some unique stuff beyond those two, like Galera. > But I don't really get the point of MariaDB grants 5 year GA support > vs. Percona grants only 2 years. I'd guess that for > 90% of all > available packages within the Debian project no assured support exists > at all? Clearly I was unclear in my previous email. The 2 year support is not true for any of the alternatives. MySQL gives 5 years (and more for customers that pay), Percona trails MySQL so they also end up doing 5 years (and more for paying customers). MariaDB also does 5, apparently. So the original statement of 2 years was just not correct. Why this is important is a good question, however it seems the origin of this discussion comes from the fact that Ubuntu indeed wants to support their product, coupled with a feeling that the relationship with Oracle MySQL makes that goal hard to achieve. henrik -- henrik.i...@avoinelama.fi +358-40-8211286 skype: henrik.ingo irc: hingo www.openlife.cc My LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=9522559 -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [debian-mysql] [Maria-discuss] MySQL's future in Debian and Ubuntu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 16.02.2012 08:40, Henrik Ingo wrote: > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Bjoern Boschman > wrote: >> On 16.02.2012 00:57, Henrik Ingo wrote: >>> Percona Server is like MariaDB in that both of them are >>> compatible with MySQL and you could do a plug-and-play >>> replacement. Percona Server is much closer to MySQL (which many >>> think is great), shall I say more focused. MariaDB has more >>> deviation in the code base and also adds more stuff like >>> additional storage engines (which many think is great, >>> especially when you want to play with new features). >> >> The additional storage engine also applies to percona :-) > > > Ok, fair point, but MariaDB really goes out of its way to have lots > of them: PBXT, OQGraph engine, Sphinx, Aria... You won't find > these (unless you contract Percona to provide them for you) in > Percona Server. These are not that commonly used but more niche. > But they are the reason I commonly label MariaDB as "has more > stuff". More features even though they only apply to niche user are in general nothing bad. Some features like microsecond datetime is really something I'm gonna have a look at :-) But I don't really get the point of MariaDB grants 5 year GA support vs. Percona grants only 2 years. I'd guess that for > 90% of all available packages within the Debian project no assured support exists at all? B -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk88xF8ACgkQABMWRpwdNunURACgoQOic29AFWc8DgGWnrXiVswa 6oEAnA+iF1Y617+Zup+UUbpFLiPqXIj3 =ddTc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [debian-mysql] [Maria-discuss] MySQL's future in Debian and Ubuntu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 16.02.2012 00:57, Henrik Ingo wrote: > Percona Server is like MariaDB in that both of them are compatible > with MySQL and you could do a plug-and-play replacement. Percona > Server is much closer to MySQL (which many think is great), shall > I say more focused. MariaDB has more deviation in the code base and > also adds more stuff like additional storage engines (which many > think is great, especially when you want to play with new > features). The additional storage engine also applies to percona :-) B -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk88sV4ACgkQABMWRpwdNuk9vgCeJmJ/+/yxT7umuAviAQq8zObH GbMAoK6zWodhzZf/y0rBkR4zDbJh42uX =/R3L -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [debian-mysql] [Maria-discuss] MySQL's future in Debian and Ubuntu
I have been following this thead with interest and as it happens I have been seeking to get more involved in Debian mysql. I emailed Norbert Tretkowski though I did not get a reply. However I am not seeing my view represented here. First of all it may well be that MariaDB is better and has a more secure future in the open source world than MySQL, and that therefore it should be available in Debian. But there are a number of reasons why I think MySQL should not be dropped. 1.) MySQL has brand recognition. 2.) Dropping MySQL would create fear and confusion in users of Debian and users of downstream distributions. 3.) MariaDB will from time to time fall behind MySQL. 4.) MySQL will continue to be around for the forseeable future and its core at least will be available on terms that technically are packageable for Debian. Furthermore I suggest that the cost and effort of one team maintaining MySQL and MariaDB is a lot less than two separate teams maintaining both since MariaDB could often be mined as a source of patches. On 16/02/12 07:40, Henrik Ingo wrote: > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Bjoern Boschman wrote: >> On 16.02.2012 00:57, Henrik Ingo wrote: >>> Percona Server is like MariaDB in that both of them are compatible >>> with MySQL and you could do a plug-and-play replacement. Percona >>> Server is much closer to MySQL (which many think is great), shall >>> I say more focused. MariaDB has more deviation in the code base and >>> also adds more stuff like additional storage engines (which many >>> think is great, especially when you want to play with new >>> features). >> >> The additional storage engine also applies to percona :-) > > > Ok, fair point, but MariaDB really goes out of its way to have lots of > them: PBXT, OQGraph engine, Sphinx, Aria... You won't find these > (unless you contract Percona to provide them for you) in Percona > Server. These are not that commonly used but more niche. But they are > the reason I commonly label MariaDB as "has more stuff". > > > henrik > -- Nicholas Bamber | http://www.periapt.co.uk/ PGP key 3BFFE73C from pgp.mit.edu -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [debian-mysql] [Maria-discuss] MySQL's future in Debian and Ubuntu
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Bjoern Boschman wrote: > On 16.02.2012 00:57, Henrik Ingo wrote: >> Percona Server is like MariaDB in that both of them are compatible >> with MySQL and you could do a plug-and-play replacement. Percona >> Server is much closer to MySQL (which many think is great), shall >> I say more focused. MariaDB has more deviation in the code base and >> also adds more stuff like additional storage engines (which many >> think is great, especially when you want to play with new >> features). > > The additional storage engine also applies to percona :-) Ok, fair point, but MariaDB really goes out of its way to have lots of them: PBXT, OQGraph engine, Sphinx, Aria... You won't find these (unless you contract Percona to provide them for you) in Percona Server. These are not that commonly used but more niche. But they are the reason I commonly label MariaDB as "has more stuff". henrik -- henrik.i...@avoinelama.fi +358-40-8211286 skype: henrik.ingo irc: hingo www.openlife.cc My LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=9522559 -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [debian-mysql] [Maria-discuss] MySQL's future in Debian and Ubuntu
I agree 100%. Even though I'm a huge fan of PostgreSQL*,* if the standard database has been MySQL, then the next release must stay MySQL or something that's a drop-in replacement of (e.g. MariaDB). After all, those using PostgreSQL are skillful enough to know how to install PostgreSQL when they need it ;-) Rgds, On Feb 17, 2012 1:44 AM, "Fabio T. Leitao" wrote: > Great stuff, > > What ever the choice, even if it is to keep MySQL alone, lets remember > MySQL will not be dropped ! Any one would still be able to install the > Oracle GA if they wanted to (from some repository, probably partner, or > even main) > > If indeed there is a replacement, I can only talk about what I have > experienced firsthand... it mus have ALL THE SAME COMMANDS AND PARAMETERS > AND DB ENGINES so that every init.d, upstart and shell scripts must work > unware of the change, even the DBA might not be aware of the change unless > he types a $ mysql --version > > MariaDB has met those criteria for me. > > Other DB engines are welcome frosting in the cake. :) > > Yet, at the same time, it MUST BE VERY CLEARLY DOCUMENTED the change > itself, the underlying reazon to do so, the possible good and bad impact > (such as know issues)... it could even explain the alternatives, between > other DBs in the MySQL environment, including the "official" Oracle MySQL > or even PG. > > And I am sorry to all PG users, I know its an excelent DB, but no one but > who is not already a PostgreSQL user even consider it as an alternative. > > Apple has changed its embended DB from MySQL to PG in the MacOSX Server > when Oracle has purchased SUN. Anyone could still choose to manually > install MySQL (or any other), but it has a caused major issues in their > user base and crippled several programs that were already pretty stable in > the previous release. Not the change of flavors (to PG) but the buggy > implementation of the change and the fact that it was so poorly documented. > > Lets try not to repeat their mistakes here. > > > 2012/2/16 Colin Charles > >> Hi! >> >> On 16 Feb 2012, at 17:24, Henrik Ingo wrote: >> >> > Clearly I was unclear in my previous email. The 2 year support is not >> > true for any of the alternatives. MySQL gives 5 years (and more for >> > customers that pay), Percona trails MySQL so they also end up doing 5 >> > years (and more for paying customers). MariaDB also does 5, >> > apparently. >> >> Oracle supports MySQL for 5 years from date of release commercially. >> There is supposedly only two GA releases supported at any one given time >> (in active support for community use). Of course we have no idea if this is >> true yet or not since 5.1 and 5.5 are still supported. We will know >> "firmly" what their plans are when 5.6 is released. Will it then be that >> 5.1 will drop from active GA support? I have no idea (as I don't work for >> Oracle). Only time can/will tell >> >> -- >> Colin Charles, http://bytebot.net/blog/ | twitter: @bytebot | skype: >> colincharles >> MariaDB: Community developed. Feature enhanced. Backward compatible. >> Download it at: http://www.mariadb.org/ >> Open MariaDB/MySQL documentation at the Knowledgebase: >> http://kb.askmonty.org/ >> >> > > > -- > Fábio Leitão > ..-. .- -... .. --- .-.. . .. - .- --- ...-.- > > > -- > ubuntu-server mailing list > ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server > More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam > -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [debian-mysql] [Maria-discuss] MySQL's future in Debian and Ubuntu
Great stuff, What ever the choice, even if it is to keep MySQL alone, lets remember MySQL will not be dropped ! Any one would still be able to install the Oracle GA if they wanted to (from some repository, probably partner, or even main) If indeed there is a replacement, I can only talk about what I have experienced firsthand... it mus have ALL THE SAME COMMANDS AND PARAMETERS AND DB ENGINES so that every init.d, upstart and shell scripts must work unware of the change, even the DBA might not be aware of the change unless he types a $ mysql --version MariaDB has met those criteria for me. Other DB engines are welcome frosting in the cake. :) Yet, at the same time, it MUST BE VERY CLEARLY DOCUMENTED the change itself, the underlying reazon to do so, the possible good and bad impact (such as know issues)... it could even explain the alternatives, between other DBs in the MySQL environment, including the "official" Oracle MySQL or even PG. And I am sorry to all PG users, I know its an excelent DB, but no one but who is not already a PostgreSQL user even consider it as an alternative. Apple has changed its embended DB from MySQL to PG in the MacOSX Server when Oracle has purchased SUN. Anyone could still choose to manually install MySQL (or any other), but it has a caused major issues in their user base and crippled several programs that were already pretty stable in the previous release. Not the change of flavors (to PG) but the buggy implementation of the change and the fact that it was so poorly documented. Lets try not to repeat their mistakes here. 2012/2/16 Colin Charles > Hi! > > On 16 Feb 2012, at 17:24, Henrik Ingo wrote: > > > Clearly I was unclear in my previous email. The 2 year support is not > > true for any of the alternatives. MySQL gives 5 years (and more for > > customers that pay), Percona trails MySQL so they also end up doing 5 > > years (and more for paying customers). MariaDB also does 5, > > apparently. > > Oracle supports MySQL for 5 years from date of release commercially. There > is supposedly only two GA releases supported at any one given time (in > active support for community use). Of course we have no idea if this is > true yet or not since 5.1 and 5.5 are still supported. We will know > "firmly" what their plans are when 5.6 is released. Will it then be that > 5.1 will drop from active GA support? I have no idea (as I don't work for > Oracle). Only time can/will tell > > -- > Colin Charles, http://bytebot.net/blog/ | twitter: @bytebot | skype: > colincharles > MariaDB: Community developed. Feature enhanced. Backward compatible. > Download it at: http://www.mariadb.org/ > Open MariaDB/MySQL documentation at the Knowledgebase: > http://kb.askmonty.org/ > > -- Fábio Leitão ..-. .- -... .. --- .-.. . .. - .- --- ...-.- -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
Re: [debian-mysql] [Maria-discuss] MySQL's future in Debian and Ubuntu
Hi! On 16 Feb 2012, at 17:24, Henrik Ingo wrote: > Clearly I was unclear in my previous email. The 2 year support is not > true for any of the alternatives. MySQL gives 5 years (and more for > customers that pay), Percona trails MySQL so they also end up doing 5 > years (and more for paying customers). MariaDB also does 5, > apparently. Oracle supports MySQL for 5 years from date of release commercially. There is supposedly only two GA releases supported at any one given time (in active support for community use). Of course we have no idea if this is true yet or not since 5.1 and 5.5 are still supported. We will know "firmly" what their plans are when 5.6 is released. Will it then be that 5.1 will drop from active GA support? I have no idea (as I don't work for Oracle). Only time can/will tell -- Colin Charles, http://bytebot.net/blog/ | twitter: @bytebot | skype: colincharles MariaDB: Community developed. Feature enhanced. Backward compatible. Download it at: http://www.mariadb.org/ Open MariaDB/MySQL documentation at the Knowledgebase: http://kb.askmonty.org/ -- ubuntu-server mailing list ubuntu-server@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server More info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam
