[Bug 1257186] Re: memory leakage messages (no talloc stackframe)

2015-01-17 Thread Heiko
I also can't understand why it is not fixed already. Because on 14.10
the fix is already released ...so it exists one! :-(

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Title:
  memory leakage messages (no talloc stackframe)

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[Bug 495394] Re: autostart almost always fails on boot time host

2011-05-24 Thread Heiko Harders
I changed my upstart script to ensure both the bridge and the md0 device
(on which the LVM volume is located) are started before libvirt is
started. In my situation this makes sure all my virtual machines can be
started. However, different virtual machines can have different
dependencies on (possibly slow) hardware being available or not. Perhaps
it is a good idea to create separate upstart scripts for each virtual
machine? This way it could be ensured that the hardware a specific
virtual machine is relying on is brought up.

I fixed my problems with the following `start on' line in /etc/init
/libvirt-bin.conf:

start on runlevel [2345] and net-device-added INTERFACE="br0" and block-
device-added DEVNAME="/dev/md0"

br0 is the bridge I am using
md0 is the raid volume on which the LVM2 volumes are located, it seems 
(although I'm not 100% sure) that the block-device-added event is always fired 
after all LVM volumes on the block device are up

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[Bug 495394] Re: autostart almost always fails on boot time host

2011-05-16 Thread Heiko Harders
It seems there is another problem with my configuration that causes
libvirt to have problems with autostarting virtual machines. I am using
software RAID 1 with mdadm and my virtual machines are running on an
LVM2 partition on md0. It seems the LVM2 volume is not yet available at
the point where libvirt tries to start my virtual machines:

libvirtd: 20:42:16.345: 1389: error : qemuAutostartDomain:275 : Failed to 
autostart VM 'ns': unable to set user and group to '114:
125' on '/dev/mapper/storage-st0': No such file or directory
libvirtd: 20:42:16.346: 1389: error : virSecurityDACSetOwnership:125 : unable 
to set user and group to '114:125' on '/dev/mapper/s
torage-st1': No such file or directory

So it seems at this point it is not the bridge that is causing problems,
but it is mdadm in combination with LVM2. According to my
/var/log/boot.log the mdadm monitoring daemon is started after libvirt.
But I'm not sure if the monitoring application has anything to do with
it.

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Title:
  autostart almost always fails on boot time host

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[Bug 495394] Re: autostart almost always fails on boot time host

2011-05-12 Thread Heiko Harders
I can reproduce this on a fresh Ubuntu 11.04 using two 11.04 virtual
machines (I had better luck with my previous 10.10 install that did work
properly for me).

The patch provided by Mika does not seem to work for me, libvirt does
not seem to be started properly with it (my domains are not shown in
virsh with a `list --all' for example). My boot.log shows two lines with
`Stopping Check if bridged network is up. OK' though.

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[Bug 40189] Re: autofs needs to be restarted to pick up some shares

2010-01-28 Thread Heiko Harders
I have this problem as well: Ubuntu 9.10 and reading mount points from
an ldap server. The ldap server is running on a guest virtual machine,
while the host itself needs autofs. Tried moving autofs from S19 in the
init scripts to S30 (after libnss-ldap and after qemu-kvm and libvirt-
bin), but that didn't help. I also tried Sebastian Veldhuisen his
suggestion, but that didn't work either.

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[Bug 495394] Re: autostart almost always fails on boot time host

2010-01-14 Thread Heiko Harders
Is there anything we can do to help somebody looking into this? I'm
happy to provide more information if necessary. Should we look into
other related packages that might cause the problem and file bug reports
for those? For me this bug is pretty much a show stopper, autostarting
domains is something I really need working.

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[Bug 495394] Re: autostart almost always fails on boot time host

2010-01-10 Thread Heiko Harders
I tried setting bridge_maxwait=0, I only booted two times thereafter to
see what happened. In both occasions some of the VM's with autostart
booted, but not all of them (first time 2/5, second time 4/5). So, at
best this might have helped a bit, but it is not a solution for the
problem.

The filesystem check, that only takes a couple of seconds, is still a
good solution. When I setup my system so that it checks the filesystem
(on which my host OS is installed, not the filesystem on which the VM's
are installed), all VM's start consistently.

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[Bug 495394] Re: autostart almost always fails on boot time host

2009-12-14 Thread Heiko Harders
I've been able to start up all domains consistently on each boot of the
host OS, by changing the parameters of the partition the host OS is
installed on. I've forced a check of this filesystem on each system
boot, and all domains are running consistently after the host is booted.
The filesystem check only takes a couple of seconds, I still don't know
whether it is just the extra delay during boot time gives libvirt the
necessary time to get the domains up, or whether something else is going
on.

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[Bug 495394] Re: autostart almost always fails on boot time host

2009-12-11 Thread Heiko Harders
Just rebooted the host, which started checking the file system.
Thereafter all domains seemed to be up. Unsure whether this was
coincidence (can't remember seeing all domains up after a reboot
before), or whether the extra boot time somehow caused the domains to
come up as expected.

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[Bug 495394] [NEW] autostart almost always fails on boot time host

2009-12-11 Thread Heiko Harders
Public bug reported:

host OS:
lsb_release -rd:
1. Release of Ubuntu:
Description:Ubuntu 9.10
Release:9.10
Linux 2.6.31-16-generic #53-Ubuntu SMP Tue Dec 8 04:02:15 UTC 2009 x86_64 
GNU/Linux

2. Version of package:
apt-cache policy libvirt-bin
libvirt-bin:
  Installed: 0.7.0-1ubuntu13.1
  Candidate: 0.7.0-1ubuntu13.1
  Version table:
 *** 0.7.0-1ubuntu13.1 0
500 http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com karmic-updates/main Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
 0.7.0-1ubuntu13 0
500 http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com karmic/main Packages

3. What I expected to happen:
Domains that are marked `autostart' should be running after the host was booted.

4. What happened instead:
- auto starting domains mostly fails when booting the host OS (Ubuntu 9.10)
- auto starting the same domains does work when using Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS or 
Ubuntu 9.04 as host OS
- auto starting the same domains does work when invoking 
`/etc/init.d/libvirt-bin restart'

Libvirtd is running.
There are symlinks in /etc/libvirt/qemu/autostart.

Mostly none of my domains are running, however sometimes a domain
succeeds and is booted (say 1 in 10 attempts a domain succeeds to boot
during the host boot process). When, after booting the host, I run
`/etc/init.d/libvirt-bin restart' all of my domains are coming up as
expected.  Autostart works for all domains while using Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS
or Ubuntu 9.04 as host OS.

I'm using Ubuntu 9.04 and 9.10 guest OS'es. Some of them were created
under Ubuntu 9.04 and some of them were created on Ubuntu 9.10. Most of
the domains are installed on a LVM, but I also tried creating a file
based virtual machine that is located on the boot device of the host OS.
There is no difference between these domains, all of them are booted
only very sporadicly while booting the host OS.

All domains are using a bridge device that I specified myself, and using
static IP addresses. I removed the default network created by libvirt,
because I don't use it (however: before I deleted that, autostart didn't
work either). The bridge device works properly, I can log in my virtual
machines via ssh and I use the bridge as well to talk to the internal
network.

I tried setting the bug logging level in `/etc/libvirt/libvirt.conf' to
1, but I don't see anything in the files in `/var/log' that explains why
my domains are not auto-starting during boot time of the host OS (or at
least, nothing that I recognize).

If there is anything else I could try, or any other information I should
provide, please let me know.

** Affects: libvirt (Ubuntu)
 Importance: Undecided
 Status: New

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[Bug 315314] Re: Tomcat BasicDataSourceFactory class not found due to incompatible location in libcommons-dbcp-java

2009-01-31 Thread Heiko Ettelbrück
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 283852 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283852

** This bug has been marked a duplicate of bug 283852
   tomcat6 does not include tomcat-dbcp.jar

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[Bug 313240] [NEW] Directory /var/log/samba missing, no logs written

2009-01-02 Thread Heiko Ettelbrück
Public bug reported:

Hi,

first of all: I'm not sure whether "samba" is really the responsible
package or whether a related one should take care of this. Please
reassign this as required.

Having a running samba (2:3.2.3-1ubuntu3.3) server on Ubuntu 8.10
Server, I wondered why there were no logs written by its daemons.
According to the smb.conf (which I didn't modify regarding this
parameter), the logs should be written to /var/log/samba, but that
directory did not exist. Having created it and having restarted Samba
through /etc/init.d/samba restart, I found a couple of log files there
as I expected to find them.

--> In some way I would expect that log directory to be created
automatically (probably by the package installation). Is it intended to
let the system admin create it manually? If yes, why? If not, could you
please adjust the installation accordingly?

Thanks and best regards
Heiko

** Affects: samba (Ubuntu)
 Importance: Undecided
 Status: New

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[Bug 271254] Re: [ffe] drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-10-10 Thread Heiko
So, I can now confirm that all is running fine with uptodate Intrepid drbd and 
amd64-server-kernel packages.
Thank you all.

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[Bug 271254] Re: drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-10-04 Thread Heiko
Ok, that seems to look good:

With Kernel 2.6.27-5-server and your  drbd8-utils_8.2.6-2_amd64 package
I get in /proc/drbd:

version: 8.2.6 (api:88/proto:86-88)
GIT-hash: 3e69822d3bb4920a8c1bfdf7d647169eba7d2eb4 build by [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
2008-05-30 12:59:17
 0: cs:WFConnection st:Secondary/Unknown ds:Inconsistent/DUnknown C r---
ns:0 nr:0 dw:0 dr:0 al:0 bm:0 lo:0 pe:0 ua:0 ap:0 oos:15728124

And in /var/log/messages:
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.034552] drbd: initialised. Version: 8.2.6 
(api:88/proto:86-88)
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.034564] drbd: GIT-hash: 
3e69822d3bb4920a8c1bfdf7d647169eba7d2eb4 build by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re, 2008-05-30 12:59:17
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.034566] drbd: registered as block device 
major 147
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.034567] drbd: minor_table @ 
0x880423486600
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.043390] drbd0: disk( Diskless -> 
Attaching ) 
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.043406] drbd0: Starting worker thread 
(from cqueue [325])
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.045234] drbd0: No usable activity log 
found.
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.045244] drbd0: Backing device's 
merge_bvec_fn() = a0059c80
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.045246] drbd0: max_segment_size ( = BIO 
size ) = 4096
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.045253] drbd0: drbd_bm_resize called with 
capacity == 31456248
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.045464] drbd0: resync bitmap: 
bits=3932031 words=61438
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.045470] drbd0: size = 15 GB (15728124 KB)
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.045475] drbd0: Writing the whole bitmap, 
size changed
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.046340] drbd0: writing of bitmap took 0 
jiffies
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.046347] drbd0: 15 GB (3932031 bits) 
marked out-of-sync by on disk bit-map.
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.047134] drbd0: reading of bitmap took 0 
jiffies
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.047522] drbd0: recounting of set bits took
 additional 0 jiffies
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.047525] drbd0: 15 GB (3932031 bits) 
marked out-of-sync by on disk bit-map.
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.047531] drbd0: disk( Attaching -> 
Inconsistent ) 
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.047543] drbd0: Writing meta data super 
block now.
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.047548] drbd0: Barriers not supported on 
meta data device - disabling
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.050432] drbd0: conn( StandAlone -> 
Unconnected ) 
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.050458] drbd0: Starting receiver thread 
(from drbd0_worker [8676])
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.050488] drbd0: receiver (re)started
Oct  4 13:19:28 corvus kernel: [ 1537.050499] drbd0: conn( Unconnected -> 
WFConnection ) 

This looks as it should.

At the moment I've no time to do further tests. I have first to reinstall the 
second drbd-machine.
I think for the moment that the issue is solved with this packages.

Thanks @all

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[Bug 271254] Re: drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-10-01 Thread Heiko
amd64 packages are fine.

It seems to not solve the issue: Only the timeout seems to be at a
higher value?!

I get also the "no response from drbd driver" message.

Here the output from the different Commands:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# cat /proc/drbd
version: 8.2.7~rc1 (api:88/proto:86-88)
GIT-hash: b00832ffcf713b24f7547423c3d55e1f192d01d3 build by [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
2008-09-29 20:28:51


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# drbdadm attach r0
No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?
Bad: fgets returned NULL while waiting for data: Interrupted system call


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# /etc/init.d/drbd start
Starting DRBD resources:[ d(r0) No response from the DRBD driver! Is the 
module loaded?
s(r0) No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?
n(r0) No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?
].
..
***
 DRBD's startup script waits for the peer node(s) to appear.
 - In case this node was already a degraded cluster before the
   reboot the timeout is 120 seconds. [degr-wfc-timeout]
 - If the peer was available before the reboot the timeout will
   expire after 0 seconds. [wfc-timeout]
   (These values are for resource 'r0'; 0 sec -> wait forever)
 To abort waiting enter 'yes' [ 119]:No response from the DRBD driver! Is the 
module loaded?
yes   [ 679]:


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~#


And in /var/log/messages:
Oct  1 12:20:07 corvus kernel: [ 4283.482632] drbd: module cleanup done.
Oct  1 12:21:51 corvus kernel: [ 4386.640204] drbd: initialised. Version: 
8.2.7~rc1 (api:88/proto:86-88)
Oct  1 12:21:51 corvus kernel: [ 4386.640212] drbd: GIT-hash: 
b00832ffcf713b24f7547423c3d55e1f192d01d3 build by [EMAIL PROTECTED], 2008-09-29 
20:28:51
Oct  1 12:21:51 corvus kernel: [ 4386.640214] drbd: registered as block device 
major 147
Oct  1 12:21:51 corvus kernel: [ 4386.640217] drbd: minor_table @ 
0x8808238f2500

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[Bug 271254] Re: drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-09-23 Thread Heiko
The drbd8-utils in Chucks ppa are at Version 8.2.6. ->
https://launchpad.net/~zulcss/+archive

But even Version ppa2 has the same behavior here as the Versions before.

With Kernel 2.6.27-3-server and  2.6.27-4-server and 
drbd8-utils_8.2.6-0ubuntu1~ppa2_amd64.deb
I get also the message "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?"
lsmod shows that the module is loaded and and in /var/log/messages I can see 
Sep 24 08:29:14 corvus kernel: [  327.655157] drbd: initialised. Version: 8.2.6 
(api:88/proto:86-88)
Sep 24 08:29:14 corvus kernel: [  327.655169] drbd: GIT-hash: 
3e69822d3bb4920a8c1bfdf7d647169eba7d2eb4 build by [EMAIL PROTECTED], 2008-05-30 
12:59:17
Sep 24 08:29:14 corvus kernel: [  327.655171] drbd: registered as block device 
major 147
Sep 24 08:29:14 corvus kernel: [  327.655173] drbd: minor_table @ 
0x880422d62a00

...only I got no segfault at this time (as I described in the post from
2008-09-19)

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[Bug 271254] Re: drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-09-22 Thread Heiko
Hi!
there are no compiled packages for ppa2 Version? Is something wrong with the 
build process? 
regards,
Heiko

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[Bug 271254] Re: drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-09-22 Thread Heiko
On the drbd mailing list I got a hint to a bug report for OpenSuSE 11:
http://lists.linbit.com/pipermail/drbd-user/2008-September/010298.html
May be it is the same problem.

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[Bug 271254] Re: drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-09-18 Thread Heiko
In addition:
In /var/log/messages I noticed a segfault from drbdadm:
Sep 19 08:13:09 corvus kernel: [  450.353857] drbd: initialised. Version: 8.2.6 
(api:88/proto:86-88)
Sep 19 08:13:09 corvus kernel: [  450.353866] drbd: GIT-hash: 
3e69822d3bb4920a8c1bfdf7d647169eba7d2eb4 build by [EMAIL PROTECTED], 2008-05-30 
12:59:17
Sep 19 08:13:09 corvus kernel: [  450.353868] drbd: registered as block device 
major 147
Sep 19 08:13:09 corvus kernel: [  450.353872] drbd: minor_table @ 
0x881023527100
Sep 19 08:23:07 corvus kernel: [ 1048.432302] drbdadm[8658]: segfault at 30 ip 
004067f2 sp 7fffee806ef0 error 4 in drbdadm[40+16000]

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[Bug 271254] Re: drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-09-18 Thread Heiko
Ok, I tested your package "drbd8-utils_8.2.6-0ubuntu1~ppa1_amd64.deb", but the 
behavior is the same. I get the same error messages as previous.
In addition:
cat /proc/drbd
version: 8.2.6 (api:88/proto:86-88)
GIT-hash: 3e69822d3bb4920a8c1bfdf7d647169eba7d2eb4 build by [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
2008-05-30 12:59:17

Is there an incompatibility between drbd and Kernel 2.6.27?

On the Machine where I test intrepid is Kernel  2.6.27-3-server running. It is 
an amd64 Machine with 16 Cores (4 Quad-Opterons) and 64GB RAM.
Does drbd run on i386? I do not have the possibility to test that.

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drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" 
but module is loaded
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/271254
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[Bug 271254] Re: drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-09-18 Thread Heiko
Yes, I will try it tomorrow.
Thank you.

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drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" 
but module is loaded
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/271254
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[Bug 271254] Re: drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-09-17 Thread Heiko
Hello Chuck!
I attached the configuration. On Hardy I used an similar configuration with no 
problem.

Thanks.

** Attachment added: "drbd.conf"
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17693130/drbd.conf

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drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" 
but module is loaded
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/271254
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[Bug 271254] [NEW] drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded

2008-09-17 Thread Heiko
Public bug reported:

If I try to start drbd I get the following error:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# /etc/init.d/drbd restart 
 * Restarting all DRBD resources
No response from the DRBD 
driver! Is the module loaded?
Command '/sbin/drbdsetup /dev/drbd0 down' terminated with exit code 20
drbdsetup exited with code 20
No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?
Command '/sbin/drbdsetup /dev/drbd0 disk /dev/mapper/vol_grp1-ldap1 
/dev/mapper/vol_grp1-ldap1 internal --set-defaults --create-device 
--on-io-error=detach' terminated with exit code 20


 dmesg|tail says:
[ 2124.572783] drbd: module cleanup done.
[ 2124.594175] drbd: initialised. Version: 8.2.6 (api:88/proto:86-88)
[ 2124.594188] drbd: GIT-hash: 3e69822d3bb4920a8c1bfdf7d647169eba7d2eb4 build 
by [EMAIL PROTECTED], 2008-05-30 12:59:17
[ 2124.594190] drbd: registered as block device major 147
[ 2124.594192] drbd: minor_table @ 0x880c23cac700


and lsmod|grep drbd
drbd  243624  0 
cn 17068  2 drbd,uvesafb

on manual drbdadm attach ressource-name:
No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?
Command 'drbdsetup /dev/drbd0 disk /dev/mapper/vol_grp1-ldap1 
/dev/mapper/vol_grp1-ldap1 internal --set-defaults --create-device 
--on-io-error=detach' terminated with exit code 20

I think there is somewhere a bug in the drbd driver?
On hardy there was no problem to start drbd

** Affects: drbd8 (Ubuntu)
 Importance: Undecided
 Status: New

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drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" 
but module is loaded
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/271254
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[Bug 240353] Re: Can not add user/macine accounts to Samba PDC if the "ldap idmap alloc" backend is used

2008-06-19 Thread Heiko
I attached the smb.conf. It is the simplest smb.conf to reproduce the issue. 
With the same smb.conf samba 3.0.30 is running fine.

** Attachment added: "smb.conf"
   http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15442511/smb.conf

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Can not add user/macine accounts to Samba PDC if the "ldap idmap alloc" backend 
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[Bug 240353] Re: Can not add user/macine accounts to Samba PDC if the "ldap idmap alloc" backend is used

2008-06-17 Thread Heiko
You mean "https://launchpad.net/~zulcss/+archive"; ?

I tried it with your version (3.0.28a-1ubuntu4.2~ppa) but it doesn't solve the 
issue.
I get there also the "NT_STATUS_INVALID_PRIMARY_GROUP" error.

Sorry I've found no reference to the fix in the samba bugzilla. May be I
used the wrong search terms?!

May be we can ask the Samba Developers, they should know more about the
issue?!

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Can not add user/macine accounts to Samba PDC if the "ldap idmap alloc" backend 
is used
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[Bug 240353] [NEW] Can not add user/macine accounts to Samba PDC if the "ldap idmap alloc" backend is used

2008-06-16 Thread Heiko
Public bug reported:

Binary package hint: winbind

The winbind Package (3.0.28a) that Ubuntu 8.04 uses has a Bug,
so the LDAP idmap alloc Backend (ldapsam:trusted = yes, ldapsam:editposix = 
yes) is unusable.
I configured Samba as it is described on
http://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Ldapsam_Editposix
With 3.0.28a you get the Error "NT_STATUS_INVALID_PRIMARY_GROUP" if you try to 
add an User or Machine Account.
In the winbind log files you can see, that winbind fails to get the UID or GID 
of a SID. With the same configuration and Samba 3.0.30 all is fine
(I tried it with the Debian Lenny Packages). Karolin Seeger from Sernet GmbH 
confirmed that this was a Bug in 3.0.28a.

I think that should be fixed in Ubuntu 8.04 especially that this Version is a 
LTS-Version.
With this Bug it is only possible to set up a PDC when the old smbldap-tools 
method is used.

** Affects: samba (Ubuntu)
 Importance: Undecided
 Status: New

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Can not add user/macine accounts to Samba PDC if the "ldap idmap alloc" backend 
is used
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/240353
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