Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[David Henningsson]

On 2010-10-04 16:27, Alessio Igor Bogani wrote:
> Hi,

Hi Alessio,
great that you want to manage these kernels!

> If you would want help in kernel stuff for Ubuntu Studio please reply
> to these questions:
>
> Which are kernels on you are interested in? The -rt, -lowlatency or -realtime?

I'm mostly curious about -lowlatency, but unfortunately I haven't got 
around to test it. I think -preempt is a server kernel? Could you also 
say that -lowlatency is the desktop version of -preempt?

Is there a difference between -rt and -realtime, except that your 
-realtime seems more updated than -rt? Do you think we should replace 
the official linux-rt, with your linux-realtime?

(I read your post on 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-March/009323.html but 
couldn't find the answer to those two questions there.)

> Which kernels you use on per day basis (so you can provide at least
> test and feedback)?

Currently I use the generic kernel.

> How do you would want help (test, packaging, upstream relation, Ubuntu
> relation, Studio relation and so on)?

First I think I need to educate myself and get some hands-on experience 
of the lowlatency kernel. I need to understand when you should use one 
kernel or another.

I've been working with audio issues, and since two months back I'm a 
part of the Ubuntu/Canonical kernel team. (I e quirking HDA hardware ;-) )
I'm a little new in this land, and haven't followed kernel development 
closely until now, so I'd also like to ask you - do you feel you have 
the support you need from the kernel-team's side for maintaining these 
kernels?

> Which Ubuntu releases do you would want see well supported for
> that/those kernels? Every releases or only LTS?

I think we need to have it for every release, to get the best possible 
testing and quality of these kernels. If that's possible?

> Please reply only if you want help.

Just to clarify, did you mean "if you need help" (you help me) or "if 
you want to help" (I help you) ?

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Re: Putting the cart before the horse.

[Takashi Sakamoto]

Hi Scott,

In this kind of work, the screenshot is more powerful to give our
opinion than some comments.

https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/Mocchi?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=0.scott_grid_analyze.png

I think this mocup has much information in a first browser screen and a
bit difficult to get the informations to need.

Then I re-align some components which you made and put some shots from
current ubuntustudio.com.

https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/Mocchi?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=1.takashi_modified.png

I change the logo to Cory K.'s Ideas because I want to put the COF
circle's color as key color.

This is the Grid-Analyzxe.

https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/Mocchi?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=2.takashi_grid_analyze.png

I put some basic and most needed information in the top. And I put much
text information to bottom. This layout will be good for several kind of
users, both newcomer and elder.

What I mean is not pushing my design but I prefer your mocup to current
ubuntustudio.com design. It's simple and easy to wathch. But there is
not so many information...

If you need my help and work, I have some time to help you till this
weekend. I can uunderstand and use the W3C's specification for (X)HTML,
CSS 2.0, JavaScript(ECMA Script), PHP 4 and 5. I'm willing to help you
with drupal if we share the basic source like MySQL data or theme
templates and so on. It'S a pretty sad that I usually use the other engines.


Cheers!

# I'm sorry if this post is duplicated because previous one has an
attached file and the mailserver reject instant post...

Takashi Sakamoto
o-taka...@sakamocchi.jp


(2010年10月04日 07:07), Scott Lavender wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Benjamin Turner
> > mailto:passionsplaydes...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > I would second not throwing out any concepts right off the bat.  I
> > think though that perhaps we should redirect where this thread is
> > going.  Before we get down to eliminating or zeroing in on any
> > 'theme' we should really take a hard look as to how we want this
> > website to function for the Ubuntu Studio community.
> >
> > I'd like to try and summarize some things:
> >
> > The current site at ubuntustudio.org  is a
> > brochure site - it is very simple, and establishes a sort of
> > creative vibe- all the while smacking you in the face with DOWNLOAD
> > -- 1 2 3! This is exactly what we (traditionally) want the visitor
> > to do - try THIS distro.
> >
> > I took some time to whip up sitemap for the existing site, and also
> > one for the eventual 'revamped' one, using the elements that we have
> > going on the wiki.  In addition, I worked a wireframe over a
> > screenshot of the original site.
> >
> > What becomes apparent to me while looking over these site maps is
> > that people are brainstorming for a much more dynamic (and
> > complicated) website, one that begins to blur the lines between the
> > wiki, the forums, and the website, perhaps taking on aspects of a
> > social networking site (I'm thinking specifically about the
> > submissions, polls, and other things that would require someone to
> > create a profile).
> >
> >
> > But do we have the energy/time/skill?
> >
> > I think that many of these things sound cool.  I would ask ourselves
> > if we (and future users/contributors) will have the energy to create
> > and maintain one MORE online persona.  Maybe, maybe not.  Perhaps
> > this 'social connection' role could be filled by other existing
> > sites?  I'm thinking about the deviantART and Flikr user groups for
> > inkscape.  Are there other sites out there that could facilitate the
> > creation of Music Creation Communities?  To put it another way, do
> > we have people here wanting to code and maintain that sort of
> > community in relation to the Ubuntu Studio Website?
> >
> >
> > Where are we going?
> >
> > In the end I feel we should more clearly describe where Ubuntu
> > Studio is moving, and how we envision using it, and by extension,
> > how we will use the website.
> >
> > For me I first came to Ubuntu Studio because it was built on the
> > back of Ubuntu's Gnome install, but with an eye to a more
> > specialized and 'professional' grade of computer user.  This being
> > said, there are still a few other applications I install that are
> > not included in the base installation (Who doesn't?)  I can see the
> > Ubuntu Studio project becoming a nexus of creative energy.  Taking
> > the best things out there, and making them work well together, all
> > the while documenting the processes, and making it easy for new
> > users (both to Linux, AND to art creation)  to create high quality
> > digital art creations.
> >
> > Let me know if this resonates with anyone.  Where do others see our
> > goals being?
> >
> > -- Benjamin

Re: Putting the cart before the horse. (was: Final Notes on the Ubuntu Studio Website)

[Chris Jones]

> 
> However, in that fashion I have been working on this mock-up for the
> past two weeks while exploring audience and purpose:
> http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-3.png
> 
> I trust that most people will find this mock-up far superior to my
> last one ;)
> 
> Comments are encouraged and welcomed (even ones that say it sucks).
> 

It's too busy Scott. I look at that and genuinely feel overwhelmed. And
any potential Ubuntu Studio users will feel the same.
There is simply too much information and too much text.
Heck, I don't even like the layout!
It has to be made and kept simple and only the basics and necessary of
information be made available on the front page.

Also of note, obviously this is your decision, but does Ubuntu Studio
really have to go down the whole Facebook/Twitter icon thing?
And if you do, I'd recommend those kind of icons be kept smaller than
what you have displayed here and moved down to the bottom somewhere.

Cheers


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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Tim Cook]

Hi Alessio,

On Mon, 2010-10-04 at 16:27 +0200, Alessio Igor Bogani wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> If you would want help in kernel stuff for Ubuntu Studio please reply
> to these questions:
> 
> Which are kernels on you are interested in? The -rt, -lowlatency or -realtime?

-rt

> Which kernels you use on per day basis (so you can provide at least
> test and feedback)?

-rt

> How do you would want help (test, packaging, upstream relation, Ubuntu
> relation, Studio relation and so on)?

1) Testing
2) Relationships with relative communities.  I have a history of open
source project management of more than 10 years.  Most of it fulltime.
(see my LinkedIn profile below.)

> Which Ubuntu releases do you would want see well supported for
> that/those kernels? Every releases or only LTS?

With a small community I think that LTS is the sensible approach.

Cheers,
Tim 




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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Erik Rasmussen]

>
> Alessio,
>
> *Which are kernels on you are interested in?  *-*rt *
> *Which kernels you use on per day basis (so you can provide at least test
> and feedback)?  -rt*
> I use the *-rt kernel on a daily basis* for both multimedia work and
> non-multimedia work, on my laptop, and it is very reliable for me and I
> never get xruns in Ardour with it.
>
> I (and probably many others on this list) do not have a good grasp of who
> is doing what in regards to Ubuntu Studio, but I'd like to understand more.
>
> I'd like to learn more about what is involved with getting an -rt kernel
> available for Ubuntu Studio and I'd be willing to help.
>
> *How do you want to help (test, packaging, upstream relation, Ubuntu
> relation, Studio relation and so on)?  Test*
> Not sure what the *relation items mean, but if pointed to some educational
> materials, perhaps I can help with other things as well.
>
> *Which Ubuntu releases do you would want see well supported for that/those
> kernels? Every releases or only LTS?  Preferably every release.*
>
> Alessio, what you wrote at
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/RealTimeKernel
> is very helpful information.  Do you have any advice on where I can learn
> more so that I can more effectively help?
> *
> *-Erik
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 09:27, Alessio Igor Bogani wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If you would want help in kernel stuff for Ubuntu Studio please reply
>> to these questions:
>>
>> Which are kernels on you are interested in? The -rt, -lowlatency or
>> -realtime?
>> Which kernels you use on per day basis (so you can provide at least
>> test and feedback)?
>> How do you would want help (test, packaging, upstream relation, Ubuntu
>> relation, Studio relation and so on)?
>> Which Ubuntu releases do you would want see well supported for
>> that/those kernels? Every releases or only LTS?
>>
>> Please reply only if you want help.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Alessio
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: Putting the cart before the horse. (was: Final Notes on the Ubuntu Studio Website)

[Brian David]

On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Scott Lavender wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Benjamin Turner <
> passionsplaydes...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I hope to address some of the questions in this email later this week.
>
> Properly identifying the audience and the purpose of the website is
> critical in order to make the website useful.  I have given it quite a bit
> of thought but haven't really devoted time to fleshing it out and writing it
> down.
>
> However, in that fashion I have been working on this mock-up for the past
> two weeks while exploring audience and purpose:
> http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/website-mockup-3.png
>
> I trust that most people will find this mock-up far superior to my last one
> ;)
>
> Comments are encouraged and welcomed (even ones that say it sucks).
>
> ScottL
>
>
I'm liking the general direction this is headed.  I would say that it looks
a little busy.  Also, I think using "Linux for Creative Humans" is better
than "Set Your Creativity Free".  I also don't care for the "Experience. .
." added to the Ubuntu Logo.  Those are the initial thoughts that come to
mind.

Also, were you thinking there would be a gateway page, or would this be the
page people see immediately upon going to ubuntustudio.com?

Would you be able to send a link for the .svg?  I'd like to try combining
some of your ideas with the things I've been working on, and see what that
might look like.

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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Brian David]

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Alessio Igor Bogani wrote:

>
> It is really hard pinpoint on something useful if you don't explain me
> what do you would want learn.
> Kernel programming? Test on latency and jitter corner case? Tips &
> Tricks? What is the final objective do you want achieve?
> Without that specification I couldn't suggest something.
>
>
I would like to have reference for all of these things.  I want to know
about the whole process that you need to do to get an -rt kernel prepared.
That is the goal:  to make a good -rt kernel.  That may sound broad, and
that's because I don't even know were to start.  I have know idea what
particular issues I'd be interested in, and which ones I can best help on,
because I don't know anything about the process.



> > Since you asked about bugs in the -realtime kernel, I would like to say
> that
> > my desktop's ATI card has never worked with the -realtime kernel.  It's a
> > somewhat older card (Radeon 5000 series) that is not supported by the
> open
> > drivers, and so I need to use fglrx.
>
> I'll take care only of the bugs reported by active people(*) . Do you
> want one of these? :)
>
>
To clarify, are you asking if I want to report a bug? Or be an active
member?  I would like to be both.  If you are asking if I want to report a
bug, do you mean via Launchpad?

See, this what I mean.  I'm starting from an extreme point of ignorance
here.  Don't assume any prior knowledge.  This is often a problem on lists
like this.  People  will come in with earnest desires to help, and when they
ask how they can start, they can get obtuse answers like 'start reporting
bugs'.  Reporting bugs where?  And how?  What's the most effective way to
report bugs?  Have you ever seen the posts on a Launchpad bug?  They're
confusing!  What are those people doing? (yes, I am being a little goofy
here)

This is not meant to offend anyone, I just think that a lot of the more
experienced users on the list, especially the ones who are asking for more
support, don't genuinely know how they come across to beginners.  I've been
on this list for a while, and I have seen several people stop participating
because they get what seems like rude behavior from people who are asking
for their help (I do not mean that you are being rude, Alessio, because you
are not.  It's an overall observation.)  Sometimes the rudeness is not
intentional, it's just people giving an answer that they feel is adequate,
when it is not.

This a tough environment for beginners, and that's a problem when we are
trying to recruit people. The best thing we can do to get more people on
board is to figure out how to get them the information they need -- and be
VERY detailed and nice about it.

Sorry, that ended up being more long-winded than I expected.
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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Alessio Igor Bogani]

Brian,

2010/10/4 Brian David :
[...]
> I would also ask that Alessio or anyone else who knows send links for how to
> learn this stuff.  I'll spend some time today researching, but it would make
> things a little easier if people who know could just point us in the right
> direction.

It is really hard pinpoint on something useful if you don't explain me
what do you would want learn.
Kernel programming? Test on latency and jitter corner case? Tips &
Tricks? What is the final objective do you want achieve?
Without that specification I couldn't suggest something.

> Since you asked about bugs in the -realtime kernel, I would like to say that
> my desktop's ATI card has never worked with the -realtime kernel.  It's a
> somewhat older card (Radeon 5000 series) that is not supported by the open
> drivers, and so I need to use fglrx.

I'll take care only of the bugs reported by active people(*) . Do you
want one of these? :)

Ciao,
Alessio

(*)
Sorry but it seems to me the only way to guarantee future on this
project (aka realtime kernel on Studio).

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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[ailo]

 I'm on Ubuntu Maverick 64 bit, nvidia 7025 integrated graphics.

From Alessio's ppa, the -realtime kernel does not start gdm, even 
without nvidia drivers installed.




On 10/04/2010 07:04 PM, ailo wrote:

I suppose I would be most interested in the -rt kernel.
I can help with testing, but I am willing to learn more.
At least one new release each year, I think. LTS seems too far apart.

It would be great if people from different audio distros could 
collaborate on this particular problem, but maybe the 1/2 year dev 
cycle is not good for everyone?
I know that the guys at puredyne were building their own rt-kernel, 
but decided to use the one from Ubuntu's repo for their 9.10 release.
Perhaps if the development cycle was once a year instead of twice a 
year, it would be easier to get more people involved?

Just an idea.



On 10/04/2010 06:13 PM, Mike Holstein wrote:

Alessio,

i would like to help in any way i can... testing is something i can 
handle with my current skill level... anything else i can learn to 
do, i am willing.. i use your -realtime kernel in lucid right now, 
but i'll help where ever i can...


thanks...

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Alessio Igor Bogani 
mailto:abog...@ubuntu.com>> wrote:


Hi,

If you would want help in kernel stuff for Ubuntu Studio please reply
to these questions:

Which are kernels on you are interested in? The -rt, -lowlatency
or -realtime?
Which kernels you use on per day basis (so you can provide at least
test and feedback)?
How do you would want help (test, packaging, upstream relation,
Ubuntu
relation, Studio relation and so on)?
Which Ubuntu releases do you would want see well supported for
that/those kernels? Every releases or only LTS?

Please reply only if you want help.

Thanks

Ciao,
Alessio

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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Alessio Igor Bogani]

Ailo,

2010/10/4 ailo :
[...]
> It would be great if people from different audio distros could collaborate
> on this particular problem, but maybe the 1/2 year dev cycle is not good for
> everyone?

As you know well there are a lot of distributions use Ubuntu Studio as
their base but I never see any type of help (bug reporting or fix,
suggestion on configuration and so on) came from they. So this
proposal don't be sure turned to me.

>From that list I must exclude KXStudio.

> Perhaps if the development cycle was once a year instead of twice a year, it
> would be easier to get more people involved?

Upstream isn't interested in it at all.

Ciao,
Alessio

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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Brian David]

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Alessio Igor Bogani wrote:

> 2010/10/4 Alessio Igor Bogani :
> > Do you know of some sort of bugs on that kernel? Are you using some
> > closed video drivers (nvidia, fglrx, virtualbox, lirc, drbd, asterisk,
> > bcmwl, r5u87xa and so on)? Do you plan to migrate to Maverick soon or
> > remain stick on Lucid? Which arch are you using (i386 known as "32
> > bit" or amd64 known as
>
> 64 bit systems.
>
> Damn Italian keyboard!
>
> Ciao,
> Alessio ~ passed to "topo chico"
>
>
I would also ask that Alessio or anyone else who knows send links for how to
learn this stuff.  I'll spend some time today researching, but it would make
things a little easier if people who know could just point us in the right
direction.

Since you asked about bugs in the -realtime kernel, I would like to say that
my desktop's ATI card has never worked with the -realtime kernel.  It's a
somewhat older card (Radeon 5000 series) that is not supported by the open
drivers, and so I need to use fglrx.
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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Mike Holstein]

i am using your PPA on a 64 bit install of lucid, and i dont plan on
migrating to maverick... i ran into all kinds of trouble at first trying to
use the proprietary driver and the -rt kernel from the normal repo... i had
a test 32bit install going on that same box, and messed around with it,
never got to the desktop with -rt and proprietary nvidia driver... i
re-installed a 64bit version, and just went with the default driver, and all
is good... no 3d support though, but thats fine for my needs on that box.. i
have another 32bit install on a laptop where the wireless does not work with
the -realtime kernel... i dont need/use wireless when booting the -realtime
kernel on that machine, but i can look into that more if you want...

i can install maverick on my 64bit desktop box using a test hard drive, so
im good for testing whatever combination of ubuntu version and kernel that
is necessary...



On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Alessio Igor Bogani wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> 2010/10/4 Mike Holstein :
> [...]
> > willing.. i use your -realtime kernel in lucid right now, but i'll help
>
> Good. So I suppose that you have grabbed it from my PPA.
>
> Do you know of some sort of bugs on that kernel? Are you using some
> closed video drivers (nvidia, fglrx, virtualbox, lirc, drbd, asterisk,
> bcmwl, r5u87xa and so on)? Do you plan to migrate to Maverick soon or
> remain stick on Lucid? Which arch are you using (i386 known as "32
> bit" or amd64 known as
>
> Ciao,
> Alessio ~ listing "smock signals" from Mike's MySpace.
>
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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Alessio Igor Bogani]

2010/10/4 Alessio Igor Bogani :
> Do you know of some sort of bugs on that kernel? Are you using some
> closed video drivers (nvidia, fglrx, virtualbox, lirc, drbd, asterisk,
> bcmwl, r5u87xa and so on)? Do you plan to migrate to Maverick soon or
> remain stick on Lucid? Which arch are you using (i386 known as "32
> bit" or amd64 known as

64 bit systems.

Damn Italian keyboard!

Ciao,
Alessio ~ passed to "topo chico"

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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Alessio Igor Bogani]

Hi Mike,

2010/10/4 Mike Holstein :
[...]
> willing.. i use your -realtime kernel in lucid right now, but i'll help

Good. So I suppose that you have grabbed it from my PPA.

Do you know of some sort of bugs on that kernel? Are you using some
closed video drivers (nvidia, fglrx, virtualbox, lirc, drbd, asterisk,
bcmwl, r5u87xa and so on)? Do you plan to migrate to Maverick soon or
remain stick on Lucid? Which arch are you using (i386 known as "32
bit" or amd64 known as

Ciao,
Alessio ~ listing "smock signals" from Mike's MySpace.

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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[ailo]

 I suppose I would be most interested in the -rt kernel.
I can help with testing, but I am willing to learn more.
At least one new release each year, I think. LTS seems too far apart.

It would be great if people from different audio distros could 
collaborate on this particular problem, but maybe the 1/2 year dev cycle 
is not good for everyone?
I know that the guys at puredyne were building their own rt-kernel, but 
decided to use the one from Ubuntu's repo for their 9.10 release.
Perhaps if the development cycle was once a year instead of twice a 
year, it would be easier to get more people involved?

Just an idea.



On 10/04/2010 06:13 PM, Mike Holstein wrote:

Alessio,

i would like to help in any way i can... testing is something i can 
handle with my current skill level... anything else i can learn to do, 
i am willing.. i use your -realtime kernel in lucid right now, but 
i'll help where ever i can...


thanks...

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Alessio Igor Bogani 
mailto:abog...@ubuntu.com>> wrote:


Hi,

If you would want help in kernel stuff for Ubuntu Studio please reply
to these questions:

Which are kernels on you are interested in? The -rt, -lowlatency
or -realtime?
Which kernels you use on per day basis (so you can provide at least
test and feedback)?
How do you would want help (test, packaging, upstream relation, Ubuntu
relation, Studio relation and so on)?
Which Ubuntu releases do you would want see well supported for
that/those kernels? Every releases or only LTS?

Please reply only if you want help.

Thanks

Ciao,
Alessio

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http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/


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Re: Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Mike Holstein]

Alessio,

i would like to help in any way i can... testing is something i can handle
with my current skill level... anything else i can learn to do, i am
willing.. i use your -realtime kernel in lucid right now, but i'll help
where ever i can...

thanks...

On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Alessio Igor Bogani wrote:

> Hi,
>
> If you would want help in kernel stuff for Ubuntu Studio please reply
> to these questions:
>
> Which are kernels on you are interested in? The -rt, -lowlatency or
> -realtime?
> Which kernels you use on per day basis (so you can provide at least
> test and feedback)?
> How do you would want help (test, packaging, upstream relation, Ubuntu
> relation, Studio relation and so on)?
> Which Ubuntu releases do you would want see well supported for
> that/those kernels? Every releases or only LTS?
>
> Please reply only if you want help.
>
> Thanks
>
> Ciao,
> Alessio
>
> --
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
>



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Last call (was "Natty and RT Kernel)

[Alessio Igor Bogani]

Hi,

If you would want help in kernel stuff for Ubuntu Studio please reply
to these questions:

Which are kernels on you are interested in? The -rt, -lowlatency or -realtime?
Which kernels you use on per day basis (so you can provide at least
test and feedback)?
How do you would want help (test, packaging, upstream relation, Ubuntu
relation, Studio relation and so on)?
Which Ubuntu releases do you would want see well supported for
that/those kernels? Every releases or only LTS?

Please reply only if you want help.

Thanks

Ciao,
Alessio

-- 
Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel