Re: Linux Tools for Serious Photographers
On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 11:14 +0300, Stuart McQuade wrote: You're right. There's aren't any specific prices for the Sony Pro range on their website, but there are plenty of Sony resellers who offer prices. You can get a rough idea of the prices from this site: creativevideo.co.uk. So Camcorders - Broadcast Professional HD Professional Shoulder Mount today are around 1 Britische Pfund = 12578 Euro some with, others without lens. IIRC the old analog and later the old digital Betacam from Sony was more expensive, but e.g. the first analog Betacam already was as good as the Bosch studio cams from that time, the early 80s. IIRC the Bosch I know had Schneider lenses. However, it seems to be that the averaged private citizen can pay to get a relative professional audio studio, but video still seems to be unattainable. For audio we can buy some professional gear and use it with some semi-pro and consumer gear, just for fun. For video some might be able to do a similar mix for video gear, but at least I suspect that those people must work semi-pro or they simply must be rich. However, quality seems to increase and prices seem to decrease. Interesting, but also frustrating, since I have got no hope to get a home video studio ever in my life, even not with mch lower quality. Thank you for the link, Ralf -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Linux Tools for Serious Photographers
On Tue, August 7, 2012 8:14 am, Ralf Mardorf wrote: I remember similar prices for the Sony Betacam, 15DM. Betamax already was pro in the beginning 80s, but only Umatic high-band was pro too. I started my carrier in the 80s, at the video studio of the University Essen in the age of 17/18 (I thought I was 16/17, but I was mistaken). At that time the first Sony Betacam was introduced. Ya the betacam was there, the government channel (CBC) had them. We ran hitachi cameras and a sony bvu200 if I remember correctly. The whole price was about 40k I think, a lot less than the betacam. I attache photos from that time. I'm the one at the Bosch camera, I wonder about my short hair, usually I had and I have long hair. Our RCA studio cameras were a bit bigger, but the peds and controls were similar. Control room layout was much the same too. stream in the building) Video streams don't have to be synced and timed any more, frame store can fix that. Audio was a whole separate chain. No sync for video does work? At home I don't have sync for my RME audio card and an ADAT device, when syncing by ADAT only. I still don't have a wordclock thingy for my RME card. The ADAT device has got an additional wordclock connector. I try to avoid to have un-synced devices when ever possible. Video is not like audio. It is not always true, but most often only one video source is used at a time except for the relatively short time of switching between sources. At the video switch the video has to be in sync at least so as the vertical and horizontal sync lines up, but that is the same from a frame from a minute ago or a year ago. In our studio, all the local cameras, telecine and tape machines where hard synced and delayed to match up using a studio wide master clock and delay lines (often long loops of video cable), But we also used satellite input of uncertain timing. For that we had a frame store device that recorded a full frame (two subframes) and fed the output out synced to our master clock so we could switch to it without a picture roll. This would even work for a fade, but would probably not be enough storage for long chromakey stuff unless frames could get dropped at some point. I was in engineering not operations BTW. (No I am not a papered engineer :) Anyway, for that kind of switching between two sources, frame store technology could work with unsynced sources. You would have one fader and could add as many outboard hard switchs as wanted so long as you didn't try to fade too soon after switching the inputs... One frame wait may be needed. (1/30th sec or so) For a computer this would mean at least two video inputs. I think there are 4 input cards out there though. USB video in would probably be a problem as you would likely already be using those for extra monitors (three monitors total with one of them having controls and small preview windows and one full size preview and one full size output monitor.) Another USB would get used up for input from a control surface IF (think MIDI controller). So your video ins would need to be PCIe or something. Starting to get quite specialized, but when you consider the cost of some of the RME stuff, not outrageous for a serious amateur. (actually it would take a group of amateurs so you would have camera men sound people etc.) I don't know how the cost would vary from purpose built HW either. Still for most people (pro or not) computer video means capture on one or more cameras and editing and mixing after the video file has been transfered to the computer. Much the way most electronic news gathering is done. (and has been done for ages... microwave links are not cheap, even just from a licensing point of view only the rich networks do it and only for special stories) -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
OT: Linux Tools for Serious Photographers
On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 14:13 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: Our RCA studio cameras were a bit bigger, but the peds and controls were similar. Control room layout was much the same too. At that time bigger usually caused a better quality. The funny thing is, that zooming and sharpness was operated directly mechanically for those oldish Bosch cameras. White balance was done via intercom, between the camera man and a technician sitting in front of an oscilloscope. I puzzled over the thingy that was above the monitors of each VTR (looks like we used 1). I can't remember, but I suspect it were the SMPTE interfaces. I remember that it was very loud in this room with all the VTRs, a patchbay (with real cables) and many fans. I like old control rooms, more wood than plastic and knobs. stream in the building) Video streams don't have to be synced and timed any more, frame store can fix that. Audio was a whole separate chain. No sync for video does work? At home I don't have sync for my RME audio card and an ADAT device, when syncing by ADAT only. I still don't have a wordclock thingy for my RME card. The ADAT device has got an additional wordclock connector. I try to avoid to have un-synced devices when ever possible. Video is not like audio. It is not always true, but most often only one video source is used at a time except for the relatively short time of switching between sources. [snip] I didn't think about this. You're right. I like your explanation. actually it would take a group of amateurs so you would have camera men sound people etc. Blood and thunder. I never heard of such projects that didn't come to a bad end. I worked as audio and video engineer for such projects, but they payed me, I wasn't a member of those groups. Btw. they didn't pay me directly, promotion of culture, broo etc. payed me. Regards, Ralf PS: You wrote: (No I am not a papered engineer :) Hahaha, (nearly) nobody gifted is a papered engineer. I know some gifted engineers who join Tonmeister VDT (audio engineer of the association of German audio engineers). You need two bailsmen to join the club and than you have to pay each year for being a member. To be fair, all Tonmeister VDT I know are gifted, I anyway join no clubs, so I rejected becoming a Tonmeister VDT. I don't like audio and video engineering as a job anymore. When ever I can, I try to work for childcare, also without having a paper. Perhaps we should completely keep it off-list at some point, for the moment I only add an OT to the subject. I like to read such OTs. I learned by reading yours and I leaned a lot reading experiences of other engineers, my favorite is Gene, an Virginian audio and video engineer who was an engineer, before the transistor was invented. IIRC I know him from LAD. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: OT: Linux Tools for Serious Photographers
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 00:08 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Perhaps we should completely keep it off-list at some point, for the moment I only add an OT to the subject. I like to read such OTs. I learned by reading yours and I leaned a lot reading experiences of other engineers, my favorite is Gene, an Virginian audio and video engineer who was an engineer, before the transistor was invented. IIRC I know him from LAD. PPS: This guy still is an engineer! -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: live video switching (was: Linux Tools for Serious Photographers)
On Tue, August 7, 2012 7:13 am, Emmet Hikory wrote: Len Ovens wrote: I don't find SW to handle 3 or more input streams and do on the fly switching. (I think we used closer to 7 or 8 streams... though our switchers had more.. they had access to every stream in the building) Assuming one is either willing to play with *lots* of gstreamer pipelines, or can pre-cache streams in one way or another, freemix can handle this sort of thing: I've stood behind someone using it to select video at a club, and they had multiple streams/previews running locally, switching which was on the main screen regularly. Took a while to find any docs for it... in the doc directory of the src package. freemix is designed to do live showing switching of videos stored as file on the computer like a VJ. I don't know if it can connect to a gstream opened by another app or not. But it is not designed for it. It is only available as a src package right now. However, I tried looking up VJ in synaptic and that spit out LiVES, already in the repos. In it's features page it says Support for live firewire cameras and TV cards. I don't know that we should ship it by default, but extra sw yes. Comments? -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: live video switching (was: Linux Tools for Serious Photographers)
On Tue, 2012-08-07 at 15:13 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: Comments? Since Linux suffers of no or no serious NLE video cut, there shouldn't be too much video packages included to an install media. Regarding to soundtracks, resp. audio productions for videos, I would welcome http://rg42.org/wiki/a3vtl as a package. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: live video switching (was: Linux Tools for Serious Photographers)
Regarding to a German post Lives seems not to run with 12.04 and there are packages for Packages are available for the following releases: Ubuntu 10.04: 1.4.6-1~getdeb1 Ubuntu 10.10: 1.4.2-1~getdeb1 Ubuntu 9.04: 1.1.5-1~getdeb1 Ubuntu 9.10: 1.2.1-1~getdeb1 Ubuntu 11.04: 1.4.6-1~getdeb1 at http://www.getdeb.net/app/lives I suspect Cinelerra is uninteresting regarding to IIRC no live streams and of course license issues? -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: live video switching (was: Linux Tools for Serious Photographers)
Len Ovens wrote: Took a while to find any docs for it... in the doc directory of the src package. freemix is designed to do live showing switching of videos stored as file on the computer like a VJ. I don't know if it can connect to a gstream opened by another app or not. But it is not designed for it. It is only available as a src package right now. Ah, indeed: the demo I saw must have either used named pipes or been a derivative of the sources currently on launchpad (engine.py would need extension to directly access non-file sources, although it's all gstreamer). Packaging this source is fairly trivial, if it's considered particularly useful: it's a clean setup.py and fairly sensibly licensed. However, I tried looking up VJ in synaptic and that spit out LiVES, already in the repos. In it's features page it says Support for live firewire cameras and TV cards. I don't know that we should ship it by default, but extra sw yes. Unless someone can document a sensible video processing workflow (VJ, broadcasting, etc.) which is known to be well-done with it, I'm not sure it ought get any more or less attention than any of the other audio/video tools in the archive that aren't part of known workflows: while there's *lots* of software in the archive, and all of it is presumably useful and used by some folk, the more that we attempt to call supported (even as extra sw), the less I would expect we could refine the experience to be ideal for accomplishing real tasks. -- Emmet HIKORY -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
