Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Video conferencing - was... something else
One other thing you should check before committing to any kind of video conferencing is that all intended participants have the bandwidth for it, as those without landlines might not. On 7/10/2016 at 4:57 PM, "Len Ovens" wrote: > >On Sun, 10 Jul 2016, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: > >> Yes, Google has issues-but if that led to ad networks using >Ubuntustudio >> instead of Windows >> to make their ads, or to the NSA using UbuntuStudio to make >their >> presentations to politicans >> I don't see how that would harm the project. > >:) I like that. > >Google hangouts doesn't bother me... no video anyway. I am still >not sure >what a video conference does that email/irc does not. Being able >to to see >the "whites of their eyes" is a boss thing, not generally someone >who >actually does some work... in my experience. But maybe I am being >grumpy. > >-- >Len Ovens >www.ovenwerks.net > > >-- >ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Video conferencing - was... something else
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: Yes, Google has issues-but if that led to ad networks using Ubuntustudio instead of Windows to make their ads, or to the NSA using UbuntuStudio to make their presentations to politicans I don't see how that would harm the project. :) I like that. Google hangouts doesn't bother me... no video anyway. I am still not sure what a video conference does that email/irc does not. Being able to to see the "whites of their eyes" is a boss thing, not generally someone who actually does some work... in my experience. But maybe I am being grumpy. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
There is one limitation to "If the community prefers to use Google Hangouts, it would be highly counterproductive if you did not, particularly if you are a involved in the work being discussed." That is that some people do not have Google accounts and in fact some people cannot make them due to the "real names" policy and the Google policy of asking for SMS verification in cases where they don't like the browser, the IP address, or think the personal information isn't someone's real name. That may not apply if all those who would be actually participating in the discussion already have Google accounts, but would apply to a discussion including one or more persons who do not have or want Google accounts for other reasons, or simply cannot make them. That's not a matter of whether or not to oppose non-free services, but rather a matter of picking a communications method that is physically usable by all participants. This is not about me, as most of my work these days is on MATE plus testing kdenlive git. Don't worry about me not being on Google. Instead my advice is to figure out if all the folks who would be using the "hangout" already have accounts or not and go forward from there. Yes, Google has issues-but if that led to ad networks using Ubuntustudio instead of Windows to make their ads, or to the NSA using UbuntuStudio to make their presentations to politicans I don't see how that would harm the project. On 7/10/2016 at 6:42 AM, "Kaj Ailomaa" wrote: > >On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote: >> On 2016-07-10 11:48, Kaj Ailomaa wrote: >> > It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who >is not >> > ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of >the team. >> >> I'm affraid it is not up to you to decide. And i find it >ironcial that >> you of all past project leads invoke flexibility. >> >> But sure, set up a vote: Who is the villain that should be >fired? Good >> Ubuntu Studio spirit my friend. > >Not sure what you are talking about here. So, I will not comment on >this. > >Also, though I can agree that I'm overly harsh with my words (as I >so >often am), I would still rather focus on the issue at hand. Which >is >about Google Hangouts. > >So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we >should or should not use Google Hangouts. > >1. Ubuntu Studio does not have a policy for/against Google >services. >Historically we have used them plenty. So, historically it is >something >we use. This means, though it is not in writing we actually do >have a >policy for using Google services. >2. It is your personal opinion that we should not use Google >Hangouts. >If you prefer not to use them, start a discussion about it, and >see who >is for/against. Since, in fact, it is no one who chooses that but >the >community. >3. If the community prefers to use Google Hangouts, it would be >highly >counterproductive if you did not, particularly if you are a >involved in >the work being discussed. And, you already knew coming to Ubuntu >Studio >that we are not a political movement against non-free services >(where >Google Hangouts can hardly be deemed as a threat against free and >open >communication, rather the opposite). So, logic dictates that you >should >use the services if the community wishes it. > >Jimmy knew this, out of experience. So, naturally, he would suggest >using something like Google Hangouts for live communication. > >-- >ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list >ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 01:14 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote: > On 2016-07-10 12:42, Kaj Ailomaa wrote: > > > > > So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we > > should or should not use Google Hangouts. > > > > This has _nothing_ to do with google hangouts. This is about an inactive > member, spreading confusion to a 3rd part, insulting a fellow > team-member for the 3rd and last time, and as you can read bellow, using > team resources to push a freelance IT-consultation agenda for free as in > beer. > I truly hope no one takes any at all influence from these ludicrous claims. And, I would encourage others to share their opinions about this subject - if not on list, then at least directly to Set, because this has really gotten way out of hand and I don't feel like I have anything constructive to add to this "subject" myself. Though I'm sure I'm partly guilty to it, the wording in some posts here are not suitable for this list (much of it is in direct violation of Ubuntu mail list policy, in fact), so we should really think about where we want to go from here as far as team communication goes. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 06:39:37 -0400, Jimmy Sjölund wrote: >I will now unsubscribe from the mailing list as well and keep out of >any further discussions. Hi, please allow me to toss in another topic. IOW it's _not_ related to the team member discussion, but IMO important related to the community attitude. The Ubuntu Studio users mailing list [1] needs more experienced users, with knowledge about default Ubuntu Studio installs. Since team members have much work with maintaining the flavour, they are not always fast with providing well founded help, to requests sent to the users list. I'm an experienced Linux user, but my installs are tailored Arch and Ubuntu installs, so I can't help much in terms of Ubuntu Studio default installs. By happenstance there is such a request at the moment. I'm sure that somebody familiar with a default Ubuntu Studio install could help [2]. Now a modest opinion that is related to your discussion, but also related to the topic regarding the users list. The OP of the thread "Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?" chose the devel list for good reasons. However, after the clarification about Ubuntu Studio and Cannonical, moving the thread to the users mailing list, would have been a good step to guard against misunderstandings and additionally there would be more traffic at the not that active users mailing list. Too funny, by accident I send a request first to Ubuntu devel instead of Ubuntu Studio devel and then I accidentally sent it to Ubuntu Studio users, instead of Ubuntun Studio devel. Fortunately it fits better to Ubuntu Studio users, than to the devel list. Regards, Ralf [1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users [2] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-users/2016-July/010803.html -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
On 2016-07-10 12:42, Kaj Ailomaa wrote: > > So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we > should or should not use Google Hangouts. > This has _nothing_ to do with google hangouts. This is about an inactive member, spreading confusion to a 3rd part, insulting a fellow team-member for the 3rd and last time, and as you can read bellow, using team resources to push a freelance IT-consultation agenda for free as in beer. On 2016-07-10 12:39, Jimmy Sjölund wrote: > The plan was to offer an opportunity for the OP to talk with someone with: > > * 22 years experience of digital audio in corporate and educational > environments > * 16 years experience of Linux and open source environments > * 10 years experience of Ubuntu Studio > * 5 years experience of open source community work > * large scale implementation projects rolling out open source environments > * small and large scale implementation projects of replacing Windows > with open source alternatives > > From there, figure out what their goals were, what problems to solve, > the current environment and alternate solutions. This is what I do for a > living and have been doing since the 90s so I figured I might have some > insights to share, for free. The solution wouldn't necessarily be Ubuntu > Studio, without knowing what the needs are it's too early to propose > solutions. All issues are not connected to Canonical, Ubuntu or even > open source. > > I won't bother commenting on other parts in earlier emails. I recommend > reading Jono Bacon's book "The Art of Community" and Jim Whitehurst's > "The Open Organization". > > I will now unsubscribe from the mailing list as well and keep out of any > further discussions. > > /Jimmy > > Thank you for your suggestion and for revealing your intentions publicly. I knew you wouldn't just drop your subscription before making sure you had succeeder in generating a little drama, so i can only blame myself: i really should have just ignored you, since as far as i can remember, you tend to "hit and run" the team as you eloquently put yourself, whenever there is controversy or polemic around. Yes, you've made this into a personal issue, i am sorry about it, but i am human too, with all the weakness that implies. Peace yo! -- Set Sakrecoer -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote: > On 2016-07-10 11:48, Kaj Ailomaa wrote: > > It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who is not > > ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of the team. > > I'm affraid it is not up to you to decide. And i find it ironcial that > you of all past project leads invoke flexibility. > > But sure, set up a vote: Who is the villain that should be fired? Good > Ubuntu Studio spirit my friend. Not sure what you are talking about here. So, I will not comment on this. Also, though I can agree that I'm overly harsh with my words (as I so often am), I would still rather focus on the issue at hand. Which is about Google Hangouts. So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we should or should not use Google Hangouts. 1. Ubuntu Studio does not have a policy for/against Google services. Historically we have used them plenty. So, historically it is something we use. This means, though it is not in writing we actually do have a policy for using Google services. 2. It is your personal opinion that we should not use Google Hangouts. If you prefer not to use them, start a discussion about it, and see who is for/against. Since, in fact, it is no one who chooses that but the community. 3. If the community prefers to use Google Hangouts, it would be highly counterproductive if you did not, particularly if you are a involved in the work being discussed. And, you already knew coming to Ubuntu Studio that we are not a political movement against non-free services (where Google Hangouts can hardly be deemed as a threat against free and open communication, rather the opposite). So, logic dictates that you should use the services if the community wishes it. Jimmy knew this, out of experience. So, naturally, he would suggest using something like Google Hangouts for live communication. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
Original Message Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory? Local Time: July 10, 2016 12:13 PM UTC Time: July 10, 2016 10:13 AM From: s...@ubuntustudio.org To: ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com What was the good plan? Video conference with an inactive memeber? To talk about issues only canonical can resolve... please... The plan was to offer an opportunity for the OP to talk with someone with: * 22 years experience of digital audio in corporate and educational environments * 16 years experience of Linux and open source environments * 10 years experience of Ubuntu Studio * 5 years experience of open source community work * large scale implementation projects rolling out open source environments * small and large scale implementation projects of replacing Windows with open source alternatives From there, figure out what their goals were, what problems to solve, the current environment and alternate solutions. This is what I do for a living and have been doing since the 90s so I figured I might have some insights to share, for free. The solution wouldn't necessarily be Ubuntu Studio, without knowing what the needs are it's too early to propose solutions. All issues are not connected to Canonical, Ubuntu or even open source. I won't bother commenting on other parts in earlier emails. I recommend reading Jono Bacon's book "The Art of Community" and Jim Whitehurst's "The Open Organization". I will now unsubscribe from the mailing list as well and keep out of any further discussions. /Jimmy-- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
On 2016-07-10 11:48, Kaj Ailomaa wrote: > On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Set Hallstrom wrote: >> On 2016-07-10 11:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote: >>> Just want to mention a couple of things. >>> >>> The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left >>> our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active >>> members of this community, currently). >>> >>> Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped >>> by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation. >> >> Ok, he took an initiative, and formulated it as an initiative on behalf >> of the group. It was a miscommunication, ok, we get that now. >> >> Why not just correct the shot instead of tacitly call a fellow team-mate >> narrowminded contraproductive. > > Perhaps your own words describe it best. Or, if I rewrite it to > "narrowmindedly counterproductive". > > At least, it is clear that you are very stubborn and not ready to back > one inch from your original position - which in itself is not the Ubuntu > Studio position, but your own personal position. You don't actually > promote discussion. Just that you are prepared to fire more words at it, > if someone is ready to listen to them - since you clearly are not ready > to reevaluate your role in this project and what the project is actually > about. Sure, flaming someone up publicly like you do now is a good way to make someone back down. FTR, i've expressed countless of times that i came to understand that jimmy did NOT talk on behalf of a group. The only one who took things personaly in this case is Jimmy. However, since you now make this your own personal issue publicly: if anyone has a record in bad conflict-management enabling them to be judgemental about this kind of attitude, i don't think it is you, zequence. > >> >>> >>> Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu >>> Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a >>> very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools >>> would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the >>> solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so. >> >> No, it was jimmy's initiative. If HE wants to help with video HE should >> set up a sollution for video conference. Using hangouts or skype would >> exclude major part of the team from taking part. > > It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who is not > ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of the team. I'm affraid it is not up to you to decide. And i find it ironcial that you of all past project leads invoke flexibility. But sure, set up a vote: Who is the villain that should be fired? Good Ubuntu Studio spirit my friend. > >> >> And like i said MANY times, i don't care what jimmy does in his >> freetime. However, being a member of the team, if jimmy writes "we" to a >> 3rd part in the context of this list then he has to assume to be read as >> taking an initiative on behlaf of the group. This is basic >> communciation. Had that mail of his been sent off-list directly to Devin >> nothing of this would have been necessary. There was already clear signs >> of confusion in the discussion regarding what the team could do for NEC >> or not, i felt Jimmy's freelance shot had the potential to build uppon >> that confusion and corrected that. >> >> Believe it or not, i have regards concerning Jimmy. I do enjoy him as a >> person. But this drama number has severely affected me personaly and the >> way i perceive him. Trying to look back i wonder what he has done, but i >> sure know it is the 3rd time he calls me out for being a conservative >> freesoftware extremist. And Last time someone slammed the door on me >> over a simple disagreement, i was a teenager. >> >>> >>> Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free >>> software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination >>> with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free >>> software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway >>> already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free >>> solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or >>> the developer. It's just an impossibility. >>> That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu >>> Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in >>> order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also >>> the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will >>> just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order >>> for people to discover the free software world. >>> >>> We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such >>> services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are >>> *for* free software. It's a big difference. >> >> Exactly, we are FOR free software
[ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
Hi, I don't want to chime in. Please, consider to continue your discussion by this new thread or another new thread, instead of continuing this discussion within the thread "Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?". There are good reasons to continue this discussion within this mailing list or off-list, but it's not good to continue within the original thread. 2 Cents, Ralf -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Set Hallstrom wrote: > On 2016-07-10 11:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote: > > Just want to mention a couple of things. > > > > The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left > > our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active > > members of this community, currently). > > > > Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped > > by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation. > > Ok, he took an initiative, and formulated it as an initiative on behalf > of the group. It was a miscommunication, ok, we get that now. > > Why not just correct the shot instead of tacitly call a fellow team-mate > narrowminded contraproductive. Perhaps your own words describe it best. Or, if I rewrite it to "narrowmindedly counterproductive". At least, it is clear that you are very stubborn and not ready to back one inch from your original position - which in itself is not the Ubuntu Studio position, but your own personal position. You don't actually promote discussion. Just that you are prepared to fire more words at it, if someone is ready to listen to them - since you clearly are not ready to reevaluate your role in this project and what the project is actually about. > > > > > Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu > > Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a > > very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools > > would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the > > solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so. > > No, it was jimmy's initiative. If HE wants to help with video HE should > set up a sollution for video conference. Using hangouts or skype would > exclude major part of the team from taking part. It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who is not ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of the team. > > And like i said MANY times, i don't care what jimmy does in his > freetime. However, being a member of the team, if jimmy writes "we" to a > 3rd part in the context of this list then he has to assume to be read as > taking an initiative on behlaf of the group. This is basic > communciation. Had that mail of his been sent off-list directly to Devin > nothing of this would have been necessary. There was already clear signs > of confusion in the discussion regarding what the team could do for NEC > or not, i felt Jimmy's freelance shot had the potential to build uppon > that confusion and corrected that. > > Believe it or not, i have regards concerning Jimmy. I do enjoy him as a > person. But this drama number has severely affected me personaly and the > way i perceive him. Trying to look back i wonder what he has done, but i > sure know it is the 3rd time he calls me out for being a conservative > freesoftware extremist. And Last time someone slammed the door on me > over a simple disagreement, i was a teenager. > > > > > Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free > > software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination > > with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free > > software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway > > already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free > > solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or > > the developer. It's just an impossibility. > > That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu > > Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in > > order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also > > the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will > > just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order > > for people to discover the free software world. > > > > We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such > > services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are > > *for* free software. It's a big difference. > > Exactly, we are FOR free software. That means we should first look for > freesoftware alternatives. If you come with a plan, than make it happen. > There was already a good plan. But, there was only one person in the team who was against it, and it was you. > Now i understand Jimmy did NOT speak on behalf of the group. Why is > that? Maybe he hasn't felt like a member for a long time? I don't know, > i can just speculate. His departue sure is a loss, and i wish things > would have worked out differently. But they didn't. I understand you > stand up for your buddy, but reviving this discussion is not going to > sort anything out. > > If anyone has a problem with with my attitude in this discussion and > think there is something i should learn, i welcome them to bring it up > with either me or jimmy off-list. > > Than
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
On 2016-07-10 11:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote: > Just want to mention a couple of things. > > The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left > our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active > members of this community, currently). > > Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped > by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation. Ok, he took an initiative, and formulated it as an initiative on behalf of the group. It was a miscommunication, ok, we get that now. Why not just correct the shot instead of tacitly call a fellow team-mate narrowminded contraproductive. > > Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu > Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a > very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools > would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the > solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so. No, it was jimmy's initiative. If HE wants to help with video HE should set up a sollution for video conference. Using hangouts or skype would exclude major part of the team from taking part. And like i said MANY times, i don't care what jimmy does in his freetime. However, being a member of the team, if jimmy writes "we" to a 3rd part in the context of this list then he has to assume to be read as taking an initiative on behlaf of the group. This is basic communciation. Had that mail of his been sent off-list directly to Devin nothing of this would have been necessary. There was already clear signs of confusion in the discussion regarding what the team could do for NEC or not, i felt Jimmy's freelance shot had the potential to build uppon that confusion and corrected that. Believe it or not, i have regards concerning Jimmy. I do enjoy him as a person. But this drama number has severely affected me personaly and the way i perceive him. Trying to look back i wonder what he has done, but i sure know it is the 3rd time he calls me out for being a conservative freesoftware extremist. And Last time someone slammed the door on me over a simple disagreement, i was a teenager. > > Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free > software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination > with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free > software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway > already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free > solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or > the developer. It's just an impossibility. > That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu > Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in > order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also > the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will > just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order > for people to discover the free software world. > > We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such > services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are > *for* free software. It's a big difference. Exactly, we are FOR free software. That means we should first look for freesoftware alternatives. If you come with a plan, than make it happen. Now i understand Jimmy did NOT speak on behalf of the group. Why is that? Maybe he hasn't felt like a member for a long time? I don't know, i can just speculate. His departue sure is a loss, and i wish things would have worked out differently. But they didn't. I understand you stand up for your buddy, but reviving this discussion is not going to sort anything out. If anyone has a problem with with my attitude in this discussion and think there is something i should learn, i welcome them to bring it up with either me or jimmy off-list. Thank you. -- Set Hallstrom aka sakrecoer signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 11:10 AM, Kaj Ailomaa wrote: > Just want to mention a couple of things. > > The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left > our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active > members of this community, currently). > ..though I'm sure Jimmy has probably pondered about quitting before (I can't really speak for Jimmy), and I should not put the entire blame on this discussion. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?
Just want to mention a couple of things. The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active members of this community, currently). Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation. Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so. Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or the developer. It's just an impossibility. That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order for people to discover the free software world. We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are *for* free software. It's a big difference. -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Leaving the community
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016, at 04:56 PM, Jimmy Sjölund wrote: > Hi, > > as most of you already know I've been having a hard time to put in much > time in the project. It's more or less some hit'n'run the last years. In > that aspect and others which I will not dwell upon I've decided to leave > the community. It's been fun and educational. I've met great people both > in real life and online! > > Other than that, take care! And you know where to find me if you want to > stay in touch. > > Cheers > Jimmy It's been great to have you, Jimmy! You've always been a positive force for this project! See you around :) /Kaj -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel