Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Full ISO and some proposals

[Ross Gammon]

Hi Stewart,

You could try installing the Debian multimedia-musiciantools
metapackage. This pulls in Musescore, Lilypond and other tools.

The list is of packages is here:
https://blends.debian.org/multimedia/tasks/musiciantools

There is a bug which I need to fix though, because it does not pull in
the latest musescore package.

Cheers,

Ross

On 9/30/21 7:55 PM, Dr. Stewart Thompson wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
>  
> 
> I usually keep out of discussions but as a music publisher I felt this
> hits my area of work.
> 
>  
> 
> It sounds odd but I broadly support this, even as someone who has used
> Ubuntu Studio as a publishing tool. First and foremost is that even with
> the availability of MusicXML Sibelius, Finale and Dorico still dominate
> the publishing profession, Encore in the US and Capella in Europe also
> still have users. They then tend to move to Adobe in the publishing
> process. I use a mixture of this or MuseScore/Scribus etc to produce our
> materials but also produce in-house so don’t need to have too much issue
> with needing to interact. If it’s a big job or cross firm we boot up
> Windows and use what we need.
> 
>  
> 
> Realistically I’d rather have the audio set up and out of the box then
> add in publishing materials as I need. It’s generally a fairly small set
> of programmes so if you are pinching for space it makes sense.   
> 
>  
> 
> *Dr. Stewart Thompson BA(Hons) MA(Mus)(Open) D.Ed. CT,FVCM FCV SFFLM
> FGMS FMCM FIGOC FSCO FFSC FCollT FFSC HonFTCSM ACIEA*
> 
> | Qualifications Director | Victoria College Examinations | 71 Queen
> Victoria Street, London, EC4V 4AY | Telephone 020 7405 6483| Freefone
> from UK 08 0800 EXAMS | _www.vcmexams.com _*
> Encouraging performers since 1890 *
> 
>  
> 
> This email and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named. If you
> are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or
> redistribution of this information is not permitted. If you have
> received this in error please notify the sender and delete it (including
> attachments) from your computer. Neither the sender nor Victoria College
> of Music and Drama, London accept any liability whatsoever for any
> defects of any nature in, or loss or damage arising from, this
> transmission. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure all
> materials are virus free. Any views or opinions expressed may be
> personal to the sender and not necessarily reflect those of Victoria
> College of Music and Drama, London.
> 
> *ü** */Please print this e-mail only if absolutely necessary - consider
> the environment!/
> 
>  
> 
> *From: *Erich Eickmeyer 
> *Sent: *30 September 2021 18:19
> *To: *ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> 
> *Subject: *[ubuntu-studio-devel] Full ISO and some proposals
> 
>  
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>  
> 
> We hit a limit. Apparently, between Sunday the 26th and Monday the 27th,
> the
> 
> squashfs hit the technical limit of 4.0GB on our ISO image. Per ISO
> 9660, this
> 
> is a hard limit as the file system is incapable of having a single file
> more
> 
> than 4GB in size (the squashfs acts as a single file on the root of the
> ISO).
> 
> Unfortunately, this means we need to take a hard look at what we
> preinstall by
> 
> default and start eliminating some items.
> 
>  
> 
> As an emergency, I went ahead and removed a few duplicate items and one
> fairly
> 
> large item, but it opened my eyes to a bigger picture issue. More on that
> 
> later.
> 
>  
> 
> In terms of deduplicating functionality, I removed jackd (not jackd2) since
> 
> you can only have one anyhow. Also, I removed lmms which, in mine and Len's
> 
> opinion, is an application that is stuck in the past using the older ladpsa
> 
> (LV1) plugins and refuses to get any update. This is in favor of Ardour
> as our
> 
> DAW of choice.
> 
>  
> 
> Other items:
> 
>  
> 
> * Switched from ksysguard to the new plasma-systemmonitor for the desktop
> 
> * Removed raysession in favor of agordejo and new-session-manager combined,
> 
> which provides the same functionality with more backend support.
> 
> * Removed simple-scan in favor of skanlite (a KDE scanner app)
> 
>  
> 
> However, this is just a bandaid.
> 
>  
> 
> My proposal is that we drop publishing as a category of apps that we
> install
> 
> beginning with 22.04. My reasoning is that we're not very well-known for
> being
> 
> a desktop publishing platform, and it blurs the line between "studio" and
> 
> general-purpose. Moreover, people doing desktop publishing aren't exactly
> 
> looking at Ubuntu Studio as we rarely see any questions about it. In fact,
> 
> when people are reviewing Studio, they're a little surprised and
> perplexed to
> 
> see such tools.
> 
>  
> 
> Len pointed out that while we could remove the publishing items, he feared
> 
> that items in the graphics category would 

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Full ISO and some proposals

[Erich Eickmeyer]

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 10:38:27 AM PDT Ross Gammon wrote:
> Sounds like a good plan to me!
>
> [snip]
>
> This change will probably mean matching changes in the installer graphics 
and project website.

To be fair, that's relatively trivial. :) The designers of our new website 
theme made that almost a no-brainer, and removing the graphics from calamares 
is pretty simple as well. We've got time, this wouldn't take effect until 22.04 
anyhow.

-- 
Erich Eickmeyer
Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio
Member - Ubuntu Community Council

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Full ISO and some proposals

[Dr. Stewart Thompson]

Hi All,

I usually keep out of discussions but as a music publisher I felt this hits my 
area of work.

It sounds odd but I broadly support this, even as someone who has used Ubuntu 
Studio as a publishing tool. First and foremost is that even with the 
availability of MusicXML Sibelius, Finale and Dorico still dominate the 
publishing profession, Encore in the US and Capella in Europe also still have 
users. They then tend to move to Adobe in the publishing process. I use a 
mixture of this or MuseScore/Scribus etc to produce our materials but also 
produce in-house so don’t need to have too much issue with needing to interact. 
If it’s a big job or cross firm we boot up Windows and use what we need.

Realistically I’d rather have the audio set up and out of the box then add in 
publishing materials as I need. It’s generally a fairly small set of programmes 
so if you are pinching for space it makes sense.   

Dr. Stewart Thompson BA(Hons) MA(Mus)(Open) D.Ed. CT,FVCM FCV SFFLM FGMS FMCM 
FIGOC FSCO FFSC FCollT FFSC HonFTCSM ACIEA
| Qualifications Director | Victoria College Examinations | 71 Queen Victoria 
Street, London, EC4V 4AY | Telephone 020 7405 6483| Freefone from UK 08 0800 
EXAMS | www.vcmexams.com
Encouraging performers since 1890 

This email and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named. If you are not 
the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or redistribution of this 
information is not permitted. If you have received this in error please notify 
the sender and delete it (including attachments) from your computer. Neither 
the sender nor Victoria College of Music and Drama, London accept any liability 
whatsoever for any defects of any nature in, or loss or damage arising from, 
this transmission. It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure all 
materials are virus free. Any views or opinions expressed may be personal to 
the sender and not necessarily reflect those of Victoria College of Music and 
Drama, London.
 Please print this e-mail only if absolutely necessary - consider the 
environment!

From: Erich Eickmeyer
Sent: 30 September 2021 18:19
To: ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Full ISO and some proposals

Hi all,

We hit a limit. Apparently, between Sunday the 26th and Monday the 27th, the 
squashfs hit the technical limit of 4.0GB on our ISO image. Per ISO 9660, this 
is a hard limit as the file system is incapable of having a single file more 
than 4GB in size (the squashfs acts as a single file on the root of the ISO). 
Unfortunately, this means we need to take a hard look at what we preinstall by 
default and start eliminating some items.

As an emergency, I went ahead and removed a few duplicate items and one fairly 
large item, but it opened my eyes to a bigger picture issue. More on that 
later.

In terms of deduplicating functionality, I removed jackd (not jackd2) since 
you can only have one anyhow. Also, I removed lmms which, in mine and Len's 
opinion, is an application that is stuck in the past using the older ladpsa 
(LV1) plugins and refuses to get any update. This is in favor of Ardour as our 
DAW of choice.

Other items:

 * Switched from ksysguard to the new plasma-systemmonitor for the desktop
 * Removed raysession in favor of agordejo and new-session-manager combined, 
which provides the same functionality with more backend support.
 * Removed simple-scan in favor of skanlite (a KDE scanner app)

However, this is just a bandaid.

My proposal is that we drop publishing as a category of apps that we install 
beginning with 22.04. My reasoning is that we're not very well-known for being 
a desktop publishing platform, and it blurs the line between "studio" and 
general-purpose. Moreover, people doing desktop publishing aren't exactly 
looking at Ubuntu Studio as we rarely see any questions about it. In fact, 
when people are reviewing Studio, they're a little surprised and perplexed to 
see such tools.

Len pointed out that while we could remove the publishing items, he feared 
that items in the graphics category would get removed. I assured him  that 
this is not the case; that while there's some overlap, removing the publishing 
meta would not remove any graphics items since the graphics meta still pullse 
those items in.

Removing the publishing meta would remove the following from the ISO:

 * scribus
 * calibre
 * pdfshuffler
 * plume-creator

I know this doesn't sound like much, but I think it would be good to save some 
space and no longer support desktop publishing as a category of items we 
install by default.

Let me know what you think.
Erich

-- 
Erich Eickmeyer
Project Leader - Ubuntu Studio
Member - Ubuntu Community Council

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Full ISO and some proposals

[Ross Gammon]

Sounds like a good plan to me!

I remember having a hard time getting lmms updated in Debian, mainly due
to the old copy of calf-plugins being split out into a separate package.
But it is really meant to be a complete, integrated audio solution with
no need to install anything else. Which is really what our seeds are
trying to achieve anyway.

Way back, we were trying to get some "workflows" documented in the wiki
for the different seeds. We did not get much input on publishing. This
change will probably mean matching changes in the installer graphics and
project website.

On 9/30/21 7:19 PM, Erich Eickmeyer wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> We hit a limit. Apparently, between Sunday the 26th and Monday the 27th, the 
> squashfs hit the technical limit of 4.0GB on our ISO image. Per ISO 9660, 
> this 
> is a hard limit as the file system is incapable of having a single file more 
> than 4GB in size (the squashfs acts as a single file on the root of the ISO). 
> Unfortunately, this means we need to take a hard look at what we preinstall 
> by 
> default and start eliminating some items.
> 
> As an emergency, I went ahead and removed a few duplicate items and one 
> fairly 
> large item, but it opened my eyes to a bigger picture issue. More on that 
> later.
> 
> In terms of deduplicating functionality, I removed jackd (not jackd2) since 
> you can only have one anyhow. Also, I removed lmms which, in mine and Len's 
> opinion, is an application that is stuck in the past using the older ladpsa 
> (LV1) plugins and refuses to get any update. This is in favor of Ardour as 
> our 
> DAW of choice.
> 
> Other items:
> 
>  * Switched from ksysguard to the new plasma-systemmonitor for the desktop
>  * Removed raysession in favor of agordejo and new-session-manager combined, 
> which provides the same functionality with more backend support.
>  * Removed simple-scan in favor of skanlite (a KDE scanner app)
> 
> However, this is just a bandaid.
> 
> My proposal is that we drop publishing as a category of apps that we install 
> beginning with 22.04. My reasoning is that we're not very well-known for 
> being 
> a desktop publishing platform, and it blurs the line between "studio" and 
> general-purpose. Moreover, people doing desktop publishing aren't exactly 
> looking at Ubuntu Studio as we rarely see any questions about it. In fact, 
> when people are reviewing Studio, they're a little surprised and perplexed to 
> see such tools.
> 
> Len pointed out that while we could remove the publishing items, he feared 
> that items in the graphics category would get removed. I assured him  that 
> this is not the case; that while there's some overlap, removing the 
> publishing 
> meta would not remove any graphics items since the graphics meta still pullse 
> those items in.
> 
> Removing the publishing meta would remove the following from the ISO:
> 
>  * scribus
>  * calibre
>  * pdfshuffler
>  * plume-creator
> 
> I know this doesn't sound like much, but I think it would be good to save 
> some 
> space and no longer support desktop publishing as a category of items we 
> install by default.
> 
> Let me know what you think.
> Erich
> 
> 


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