Re: Plymouth text version

[Len Ovens]

On Thu, November 15, 2012 6:48 am, Scott Lavender wrote:

>> The general response seems to be it should be the same (way) as vanilla.
>> Vanilla has the graphic theme with no version and the text theme with
>> version.
>>
>> We will do the same for now.

> for the record, i would prefer not to make the plymouth theme start
> earlier. i think we have other things to work with higher priority.

That would be my guess/thoughts too. Same as vanilla.
>
> if we feel that versioning IS important, i would suggest putting it in the
> lightdm background. this has a lower threshold for effecting and
> maintenance IMO.

So you would like to leave both themes version-less, with the version
being added to lightdm. Certainly lightdm is the one place the user is
expected to actually look at the screen. I would think there are a number
of people who start their computer and walk away or pay attention to other
things while it boots. At the lightdm screen they have to be there to log
in Unless they have set autologin.

Perhaps we should add the version to the main menu. Right now we have an
item called "Ubuntu Studio Information", maybe we should call it "Ubuntu
Studio 13.04 Information". While this would require maintenance, it should
be obvious to anyone testing a release that this needs to be changed. This
is also a plus for putting a version in lightdm and a minus for putting it
in plymouth as in plymouth anyone tester will only see one or the other
theme and which ever they don't see... an old version number would not be
noticed.

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Re: Plymouth text version

[Scott Lavender]

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Len Ovens  wrote:

>
> On Mon, November 12, 2012 9:48 am, Len Ovens wrote:
> > Well, this has turned into a mess. It started with a simple question.
> > Should our text version of plymouth be versioned.
>
> The general response seems to be it should be the same (way) as vanilla.
> Vanilla has the graphic theme with no version and the text theme with
> version.
>
> We will do the same for now.
>
> --
> Len Ovens
> www.OvenWerks.net
>
>
> --
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>


for the record, i would prefer not to make the plymouth theme start
earlier. i think we have other things to work with higher priority.

if we feel that versioning IS important, i would suggest putting it in the
lightdm background. this has a lower threshold for effecting and
maintenance IMO.
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Len Ovens]

On Mon, November 12, 2012 9:48 am, Len Ovens wrote:
> Well, this has turned into a mess. It started with a simple question.
> Should our text version of plymouth be versioned.

The general response seems to be it should be the same (way) as vanilla.
Vanilla has the graphic theme with no version and the text theme with
version.

We will do the same for now.

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Re: Plymouth text version

[Emmet Hikory]

Len Ovens wrote:
> On Mon, November 12, 2012 10:28 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> Interesting. I was not aware plymouth started so late on installs. I was
> under the assumption it still started in initramfs.
> >
> > In short, there are two cases where plymouth actually works right: live
> > installers and machines with cryptsetup installed, with or without any
> > encrypted partitions.
> 
> I don't know if we want to install cryptsetup by default just to get
> plymouth to work. -settings may be able to set this up though... or maybe
> -look should  do that?

Although it will look better (and in cases where the user needs to
interact prior to x-display-manager launching will work better), choosing
to force plymouth on in cases where no interaction is expected will slow
the boot process, although not by terribly much.  In some extreme cases,
it may also enlarge the initramfs larger than can be stored properly, but
none of our users installing from images should encounter this issue.

In the case this is desired, the solution is to ship the appropriate
configuration in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/conf-hooks.d/, but given the
nature of initramfs generation and regeneration, it would be better to
either set this or not, rather than have some configuration option: there
are too many other packages that could conceivably have a requirement for
early-user-interaction that could turn it on for user-visible settings to
respond as expected to changes by the user.

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Re: Plymouth text version

[Len Ovens]

On Mon, November 12, 2012 3:18 pm, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> One thing about installing cryptsetup by default as a means of starting
> plymouth early: it does not require any changes from a "vanilla" install
> of Ubuntu, as an early start to plymouth is then the normal behavior in
> Ubuntu. Nothing to maintain but the theme, the rest is upstream Ubuntu,
> cryptsetup, and plymouth mantainance. In fact, live disks also have
> cryptsetup installed, so as to permit them to read encrypted volumes. That
> also is probably why plymouth starts early on a live disk, though I can't
> verify that having never made a live installer from an installed
> filesystem.
>
> As such, it is possible to start plymouth at kernel modeswitch simply by
> installing cryptsetup, and not have to implement nor maintain anything not
> part of vanilla Ubuntu.

Interesting, we already ship the cryptlibs. I'm trying it anyway adds 318k
to the install... already on the ISO

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Re: Plymouth text version

[lukefromdc]

One thing about installing cryptsetup by default as a means of starting 
plymouth early: it does not require any changes from a "vanilla" install of 
Ubuntu, as an early start to plymouth is then the normal behavior in Ubuntu. 
Nothing to maintain but the theme, the rest is upstream Ubuntu, cryptsetup, and 
plymouth mantainance. In fact, live disks also have cryptsetup installed, so as 
to permit them to read encrypted volumes. That also is probably why plymouth 
starts early on a live disk, though I can't verify that having never made a 
live installer from an installed  filesystem.

As such, it is possible to start plymouth at kernel modeswitch simply by 
installing cryptsetup, and not have to implement nor maintain anything not part 
of vanilla Ubuntu.

On 11/12/2012 at 4:28 PM, "Antoine Thomas"  wrote:
>
>Both. For me Ubuntu Studio should behave the same way than Vanilla 
>with our
>artwork. I don't see why we should do something different. And I 
>guess that
>most of end users don't care, if it works well.
>
>If it can save time too for other more important stuff then it is 
>good too.
>Le 12 nov. 2012 22:02, "Len Ovens"  a écrit :
>
>>
>> On Mon, November 12, 2012 12:45 pm, ttoine wrote:
>> > I think that we should (if possible) let plymouth like in 
>Vanilla Ubuntu.
>> > And only changing lighdm.
>>
>> Just to be clear, You are talking about how and when plymouth is 
>started
>> rather than the "artwork" for plymouth?
>>
>> > 2012/11/12 Len Ovens 
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, November 12, 2012 10:45 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com 
>wrote:
>> >> > There are other ways to make plymouth start quickly than 
>installing
>> >> > cryptsetup, but that's the easiest way for an end user and 
>least
>> >> likely
>> >> to
>> >> > get reverted by some update.
>> >>
>> >> The first question for studio is do we want to fix this? 
>Should Ubuntu
>> >> Studio set plymouth to start earlier than vanilla to avoid a 
>long blank
>> >> screen during boot?
>> >>
>> >> Comments please!
>> >>
>> >> I think we need to decide this before we decide the 
>versioning issue.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Len Ovens
>> >> www.OvenWerks.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
>> >> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>> >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
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>> www.OvenWerks.net
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Antoine Thomas]

Both. For me Ubuntu Studio should behave the same way than Vanilla with our
artwork. I don't see why we should do something different. And I guess that
most of end users don't care, if it works well.

If it can save time too for other more important stuff then it is good too.
Le 12 nov. 2012 22:02, "Len Ovens"  a écrit :

>
> On Mon, November 12, 2012 12:45 pm, ttoine wrote:
> > I think that we should (if possible) let plymouth like in Vanilla Ubuntu.
> > And only changing lighdm.
>
> Just to be clear, You are talking about how and when plymouth is started
> rather than the "artwork" for plymouth?
>
> > 2012/11/12 Len Ovens 
> >
> >>
> >> On Mon, November 12, 2012 10:45 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> >> > There are other ways to make plymouth start quickly than installing
> >> > cryptsetup, but that's the easiest way for an end user and least
> >> likely
> >> to
> >> > get reverted by some update.
> >>
> >> The first question for studio is do we want to fix this? Should Ubuntu
> >> Studio set plymouth to start earlier than vanilla to avoid a long blank
> >> screen during boot?
> >>
> >> Comments please!
> >>
> >> I think we need to decide this before we decide the versioning issue.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Len Ovens
> >> www.OvenWerks.net
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
> >> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
> >>
> >
>
>
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>
>
> --
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Len Ovens]

On Mon, November 12, 2012 12:45 pm, ttoine wrote:
> I think that we should (if possible) let plymouth like in Vanilla Ubuntu.
> And only changing lighdm.

Just to be clear, You are talking about how and when plymouth is started
rather than the "artwork" for plymouth?

> 2012/11/12 Len Ovens 
>
>>
>> On Mon, November 12, 2012 10:45 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
>> > There are other ways to make plymouth start quickly than installing
>> > cryptsetup, but that's the easiest way for an end user and least
>> likely
>> to
>> > get reverted by some update.
>>
>> The first question for studio is do we want to fix this? Should Ubuntu
>> Studio set plymouth to start earlier than vanilla to avoid a long blank
>> screen during boot?
>>
>> Comments please!
>>
>> I think we need to decide this before we decide the versioning issue.
>>
>> --
>> Len Ovens
>> www.OvenWerks.net
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
>> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
>>
>


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Re: Plymouth text version

[ttoine]

I think that we should (if possible) let plymouth like in Vanilla Ubuntu.
And only changing lighdm.


Antoine THOMAS
Tél: 0663137906



2012/11/12 Len Ovens 

>
> On Mon, November 12, 2012 10:45 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> > There are other ways to make plymouth start quickly than installing
> > cryptsetup, but that's the easiest way for an end user and least likely
> to
> > get reverted by some update.
>
> The first question for studio is do we want to fix this? Should Ubuntu
> Studio set plymouth to start earlier than vanilla to avoid a long blank
> screen during boot?
>
> Comments please!
>
> I think we need to decide this before we decide the versioning issue.
>
> --
> Len Ovens
> www.OvenWerks.net
>
>
> --
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Len Ovens]

On Mon, November 12, 2012 10:45 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> There are other ways to make plymouth start quickly than installing
> cryptsetup, but that's the easiest way for an end user and least likely to
> get reverted by some update.

The first question for studio is do we want to fix this? Should Ubuntu
Studio set plymouth to start earlier than vanilla to avoid a long blank
screen during boot?

Comments please!

I think we need to decide this before we decide the versioning issue.

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Re: Plymouth text version

[lukefromdc]

There are other ways to make plymouth start quickly than installing cryptsetup, 
but that's the easiest way for an end user and least likely to get reverted by 
some update.

On 11/12/2012 at 1:41 PM, "Len Ovens"  wrote:
>
>On Mon, November 12, 2012 10:28 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
>> The long blank screen is because of plymouth not loading when the
>> initramfs loads. This was an intentional decision by Ubuntu to 
>avoid
>> slowing down the boot process by including the necessary video 
>modules, a
>> font , etc in the initramfs. This is for actual installs, not 
>for the
>> installer itself, which loads plymouth early. The simplest way to
>> duplicate this in an installed system is to install cryptsetup. 
>This
>> forces "framebuffer=y" on the initramfs and forces the necessary 
>changes
>> to run plymouth as soon as the kernel switches video modes. All 
>that is to
>> pretty up the password entry interface for users of encrypted 
>systems,
>> like all of mine.
>
>Interesting. I was not aware plymouth started so late on installs. 
>I was
>under the assumption it still started in initramfs.
>>
>> In short, there are two cases where plymouth actually works 
>right: live
>> installers and machines with cryptsetup installed, with or 
>without any
>> encrypted partitions.
>
>I don't know if we want to install cryptsetup by default just to 
>get
>plymouth to work. -settings may be able to set this up though... 
>or maybe
>-look should  do that?
>>
>> I remember reading that Ubuntu had planned to get default 
>installs
>> beginning with 12.04 to boot without using an initramfs at all, 
>but people
>> stopped talking about that and I do not know how or if that ever 
>panned
>> out, given all my installs are encrypted and thus this would not 
>be
>> tested.
>
>They are still there. Someone has probably found out why they were 
>put
>there in the first place  :)
>
>-- 
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>www.OvenWerks.net
>
>
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Len Ovens]

On Mon, November 12, 2012 10:28 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> The long blank screen is because of plymouth not loading when the
> initramfs loads. This was an intentional decision by Ubuntu to avoid
> slowing down the boot process by including the necessary video modules, a
> font , etc in the initramfs. This is for actual installs, not for the
> installer itself, which loads plymouth early. The simplest way to
> duplicate this in an installed system is to install cryptsetup. This
> forces "framebuffer=y" on the initramfs and forces the necessary changes
> to run plymouth as soon as the kernel switches video modes. All that is to
> pretty up the password entry interface for users of encrypted systems,
> like all of mine.

Interesting. I was not aware plymouth started so late on installs. I was
under the assumption it still started in initramfs.
>
> In short, there are two cases where plymouth actually works right: live
> installers and machines with cryptsetup installed, with or without any
> encrypted partitions.

I don't know if we want to install cryptsetup by default just to get
plymouth to work. -settings may be able to set this up though... or maybe
-look should  do that?
>
> I remember reading that Ubuntu had planned to get default installs
> beginning with 12.04 to boot without using an initramfs at all, but people
> stopped talking about that and I do not know how or if that ever panned
> out, given all my installs are encrypted and thus this would not be
> tested.

They are still there. Someone has probably found out why they were put
there in the first place  :)

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Re: Plymouth text version

[lukefromdc]

The long blank screen is because of plymouth not loading when the initramfs 
loads. This was an intentional decision by Ubuntu to avoid slowing down the 
boot process by including the necessary video modules, a font , etc in the 
initramfs. This is for actual installs, not for the installer itself, which 
loads plymouth early. The simplest way to duplicate this in an installed system 
is to install cryptsetup. This forces "framebuffer=y" on the initramfs and 
forces the necessary changes to run plymouth as soon as the kernel switches 
video modes. All that is to pretty up the password entry interface for users of 
encrypted systems, like all of mine.

In short, there are two cases where plymouth actually works right: live 
installers and machines with cryptsetup installed, with or without any 
encrypted partitions. 

I remember reading that Ubuntu had planned to get default installs beginning 
with 12.04 to boot without using an initramfs at all, but people stopped 
talking about that and I do not know how or if that ever panned out, given all 
my installs are encrypted and thus this would not be tested.


On 11/12/2012 at 12:48 PM, "Len Ovens"  wrote:
>
>Well, this has turned into a mess. It started with a simple 
>question.
>Should our text version of plymouth be versioned.
>
>The answers have been everywhere from get rid of plymouth, use 
>vanilla,
>versioned, not. All of this for a screen that does nothing but 
>look good
>for a very short time. Certainly there has been no consensus.
>
>I think there have been three people who have suggested the graphic
>version and the text version should offer the same information. 
>That is,
>if one says Ubuntu Studio, the other should too. If one is 
>versioned the
>other should be as well. In the end the maintenance for the graphic
>version is much higher than for the text version.
>
>Personally I have noticed that while the presentation of plymouth 
>on the
>live ISO is very nice and serves a good purpose by letting people 
>know
>something is happening, after install it almost looks broken. I 
>have a
>slower machine than most and yet even still plymouth just barely 
>has
>enough time to start before it stops. the wheel effect lasts for 
>about 1/4
>turn and then stops then lightdm shows up. Most of my boot time 
>wise has a
>blank screen before plymouth starts. So the ISO and installed 
>cases are
>not the same. Also testing and installed are not the same use.
>
>In the end, Ubuntu is about user experience, not tester 
>convenience.
>
>As such, I do not think the vanilla text version is good enough  
>:) It
>looks out of place to me. Something that has not been taken care 
>of. There
>are going to be cycles where there are very few people working on 
>Studio
>as with last cycle, so easy maintenance is important. The graphic 
>version
>does not have a version and because of the maintenance required 
>there may
>not be someone in any given cycle who feels confident to put a 
>version in
>there. These are the reasons I originally suggested removing the 
>version
>from the text version of plymouth.
>
>So for these reasons I think both versions of plymouth should be 
>unversioned.
>
>I am not sure what to do about the long blank screen before that, 
>but
>there are things we could do as another poster has pointed out.
>
>There are other issues with plymouth BTW. Let me relate my 
>experience:
>
> - 12.04LTS - The ISO live gives me the text version of plymouth
> - 12.04LTS - after install at the point where plymouth would 
>start, video
>goes off... my monitor reports no video signal till lightdm comes 
>up.
> - 12.10 - The Live ISO gives me the graphic version but at lower 
>colour
>depth. the colours are correct in the center but the outer regions 
>of the
>screen look like colour noise.
> - 12.10 - after install at the point where plymouth would start, 
>video
>goes off... my monitor reports no video signal till lightdm comes 
>up.
>
>So, X works fine with 24bit colour, but the driver that plymouth 
>uses does
>not (for this system). The ISO boot must use something different 
>that what
>we install. I am not sure what the solution is for this. I would 
>guess
>this is an installer problem of some sort. I should try a vanilla 
>install.
>
>What we may wish to do is to make sure even the graphic version is 
>16bit
>ready.
>
>-- 
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>www.OvenWerks.net
>
>
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Len Ovens]

Well, this has turned into a mess. It started with a simple question.
Should our text version of plymouth be versioned.

The answers have been everywhere from get rid of plymouth, use vanilla,
versioned, not. All of this for a screen that does nothing but look good
for a very short time. Certainly there has been no consensus.

I think there have been three people who have suggested the graphic
version and the text version should offer the same information. That is,
if one says Ubuntu Studio, the other should too. If one is versioned the
other should be as well. In the end the maintenance for the graphic
version is much higher than for the text version.

Personally I have noticed that while the presentation of plymouth on the
live ISO is very nice and serves a good purpose by letting people know
something is happening, after install it almost looks broken. I have a
slower machine than most and yet even still plymouth just barely has
enough time to start before it stops. the wheel effect lasts for about 1/4
turn and then stops then lightdm shows up. Most of my boot time wise has a
blank screen before plymouth starts. So the ISO and installed cases are
not the same. Also testing and installed are not the same use.

In the end, Ubuntu is about user experience, not tester convenience.

As such, I do not think the vanilla text version is good enough  :) It
looks out of place to me. Something that has not been taken care of. There
are going to be cycles where there are very few people working on Studio
as with last cycle, so easy maintenance is important. The graphic version
does not have a version and because of the maintenance required there may
not be someone in any given cycle who feels confident to put a version in
there. These are the reasons I originally suggested removing the version
from the text version of plymouth.

So for these reasons I think both versions of plymouth should be unversioned.

I am not sure what to do about the long blank screen before that, but
there are things we could do as another poster has pointed out.

There are other issues with plymouth BTW. Let me relate my experience:

 - 12.04LTS - The ISO live gives me the text version of plymouth
 - 12.04LTS - after install at the point where plymouth would start, video
goes off... my monitor reports no video signal till lightdm comes up.
 - 12.10 - The Live ISO gives me the graphic version but at lower colour
depth. the colours are correct in the center but the outer regions of the
screen look like colour noise.
 - 12.10 - after install at the point where plymouth would start, video
goes off... my monitor reports no video signal till lightdm comes up.

So, X works fine with 24bit colour, but the driver that plymouth uses does
not (for this system). The ISO boot must use something different that what
we install. I am not sure what the solution is for this. I would guess
this is an installer problem of some sort. I should try a vanilla install.

What we may wish to do is to make sure even the graphic version is 16bit
ready.

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Re: Plymouth text version

[Ho Wan Chan]

Hmm wait a minute, Ububtu Desktop's own Plymouth theme has version numbers
too. Then it means we have to resync every release. That is not better than
just changing the version number.
On 2012-11-12 下午9:09, "Scott Lavender"  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Emmet Hikory  wrote:
>
>> Ho Wan Chan wrote:
>> > no no no I mean to abolish the text theme ONLY. The graphical one should
>> > remain.
>>
>> This means that we have no output multiplexor when booting on devices
>> that are in VGA fallback mode: as it turns out, in addition to some
>> virtual
>> environments, this is also true for lots of actual hardware (albeit
>> low-end).
>> While we don't really expect anyone to run a full DAW in such
>> environments,
>> there may be plenty of folk who have relatively underpowered machines they
>> use as effects boxes of one sort or another in an analog mixer chain.
>>
>> That said, if there's no interest in maintaining a special Ubuntu
>> Studio
>> text theme, we could just fall back to the text theme used for the Desktop
>> and Server products: there are few enough affected users that we're
>> unlikely
>> to receive too many complaints.
>>
>> --
>> Emmet HIKORY
>>
>> --
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>>
>
> i would like to keep this as low maintenance as possible.
>
> if we can fall back to the text theme used for Desktop, that would present
> a solution with very little overhead or maintenance. so +1 here.
>
> i am not opposed to including the version numbers (i like the idea
> actually), however we would need to make the original .svg (or whatever
> filetype) available (perhaps included with source) so this is low threshold
> as possible to update. that would have also get a +1 then.
>
> scottl
>
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Scott Lavender]

On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Emmet Hikory  wrote:

> Ho Wan Chan wrote:
> > no no no I mean to abolish the text theme ONLY. The graphical one should
> > remain.
>
> This means that we have no output multiplexor when booting on devices
> that are in VGA fallback mode: as it turns out, in addition to some virtual
> environments, this is also true for lots of actual hardware (albeit
> low-end).
> While we don't really expect anyone to run a full DAW in such environments,
> there may be plenty of folk who have relatively underpowered machines they
> use as effects boxes of one sort or another in an analog mixer chain.
>
> That said, if there's no interest in maintaining a special Ubuntu
> Studio
> text theme, we could just fall back to the text theme used for the Desktop
> and Server products: there are few enough affected users that we're
> unlikely
> to receive too many complaints.
>
> --
> Emmet HIKORY
>
> --
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
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>

i would like to keep this as low maintenance as possible.

if we can fall back to the text theme used for Desktop, that would present
a solution with very little overhead or maintenance. so +1 here.

i am not opposed to including the version numbers (i like the idea
actually), however we would need to make the original .svg (or whatever
filetype) available (perhaps included with source) so this is low threshold
as possible to update. that would have also get a +1 then.

scottl
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Emmet Hikory]

Ho Wan Chan wrote:
> no no no I mean to abolish the text theme ONLY. The graphical one should
> remain.

This means that we have no output multiplexor when booting on devices
that are in VGA fallback mode: as it turns out, in addition to some virtual
environments, this is also true for lots of actual hardware (albeit low-end).
While we don't really expect anyone to run a full DAW in such environments,
there may be plenty of folk who have relatively underpowered machines they
use as effects boxes of one sort or another in an analog mixer chain.

That said, if there's no interest in maintaining a special Ubuntu Studio
text theme, we could just fall back to the text theme used for the Desktop
and Server products: there are few enough affected users that we're unlikely
to receive too many complaints.

-- 
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Re: Plymouth text version

[lukefromdc]

Version numbers on installer Plymouth help people know which version they are 
using. This is especially handy for a live image on a flash drive, which unlike 
a CD does not have space to write on and may be frequently rewritten. I think 
they should be used.

On 11/11/2012 at 10:05 AM, "Len Ovens"  wrote:
>
>As we are starting a new cycle, The text version of plymouth needs 
>to be
>updated. There was some discussion and it was noted that the 
>graphics
>version of plymouth has no version displayed. We are wondering if 
>we
>should just drop the versioning on the text version as well or 
>not. The
>text version shows up if the ISO is being tested on/in a vbox and 
>may be
>helpful to remind the tester what version they are working on... 
>if that
>person does a lot of testing of different versions :)
>
>For those who don't know, plymouth is what displays the 
>ubuntustudio
>symbol with the wheel effect around it in the graphics version and 
>the
>words Ubuntu Studio XX.XX with the moving dots under in the text 
>version.
>
>Quite aside from that however, I would suggest that the backdrop 
>for
>lightdm should have the version number somewhere... And I would 
>suggest
>using numbers rather than the "code name". Some of the code names 
>good,
>some are not... (precise was good, but raring?). Even if the 
>session
>backdrop had the version added to a corner that would be fine.
>
>Anyway, vote here. when we get tired of waiting for votes we will 
>run with
>it.
>
>
>-- 
>Len Ovens
>www.OvenWerks.net
>
>
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Re: Plymouth text version/graphics version ideas

[lukefromdc]

Plymouth isn't that hard to customize, though it can take a day or so of work 
to debug a new or radically modified theme from scratch. Since Jan 2011 I have 
used the same image for the desktop, plymouth, and grub, so that the desktop 
background comes up as soon as GRUB starts. My own work with this has gotten 
buggy a few times(now needing a particular version of GRUB 2, for instance), 
mostly because of limitations in the documentation of Plymouth and GRUB that 
keep me from getting a full understanding of all the features-and all the 
changes.

I think for an installer/default install, using the default desktop image as a 
background in Plymouth, would have a lot going for it. Same for a GRUB theme if 
anyone can maintain it. With open source drivers and a single monitor, that 
means the machine posts, loads the desktop image, flickers once at KMS start, 
then keeps it up all the way to the display manager(or the full desktop on a 
live disk or autologin), at which point any other Plymouth animations or logos 
disappear. This assumes that lightdm and the desktop are using the same 
background, of course.  The ultimate would be some tool that would on selecting 
a desktop image offer the option to automatically load it into the lightdm, 
plymouth, and GRUB themes as well. Absent that, some documentation on how to 
get the image into those themes would let people do it themselves.


On 11/11/2012 at 10:10 AM, "Kaj Ailomaa"  wrote:
>
>On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:05:08 +0100, Len Ovens  
>wrote:
>
>> As we are starting a new cycle, The text version of plymouth 
>needs to be
>> updated. There was some discussion and it was noted that the 
>graphics
>> version of plymouth has no version displayed. We are wondering 
>if we
>> should just drop the versioning on the text version as well or 
>not. The
>> text version shows up if the ISO is being tested on/in a vbox 
>and may be
>> helpful to remind the tester what version they are working on... 
>if that
>> person does a lot of testing of different versions :)
>>
>> For those who don't know, plymouth is what displays the 
>ubuntustudio
>> symbol with the wheel effect around it in the graphics version 
>and the
>> words Ubuntu Studio XX.XX with the moving dots under in the text 
>version.
>>
>> Quite aside from that however, I would suggest that the backdrop 
>for
>> lightdm should have the version number somewhere... And I would 
>suggest
>> using numbers rather than the "code name". Some of the code 
>names good,
>> some are not... (precise was good, but raring?). Even if the 
>session
>> backdrop had the version added to a corner that would be fine.
>>
>> Anyway, vote here. when we get tired of waiting for votes we 
>will run  
>> with
>> it.
>>
>>
>
>Since we hardly have time to see it (which is a shame cause it's 
>very nice  
>looking), I barely see the point in having it in the first place.
>I don't think we need to display the version number.
>
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Antoine Thomas]

I am for having the version number in loging screen, even if it is only in
a corner. Because when logged, users will note know clearly wich version
they are using.
Le 11 nov. 2012 16:44, "Len Ovens"  a écrit :

>
> On Sun, November 11, 2012 7:41 am, Len Ovens wrote:
> > The boot image maybe able to be made
> > persistent. That is it may be possible to get grub to leave some
> > background up
>
> Just some thoughts on this... it would mean customizing grub and the
> maintenance that goes with that. I don't know how well that would work
> with Ubuntu's solution to the whole secure boot thing.
>
> --
> Len Ovens
> www.OvenWerks.net
>
>
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Ho Wan Chan]

no no no I mean to abolish the text theme ONLY. The graphical one should
remain.

smartboyhw
On 2012-11-11 下午11:41, "Len Ovens"  wrote:

>
> On Sun, November 11, 2012 7:13 am, Ho Wan Chan wrote:
> > Maybe then we should just completely abolish the themeBut is that
> > possible?
>
> > 2012/11/11 Kaj Ailomaa 
> >
>
> >> Since we hardly have time to see it (which is a shame cause it's very
> >> nice
> >> looking), I barely see the point in having it in the first place.
> >> I don't think we need to display the version number.
>
> Yes it is possible to not install plymouth. The machine can be set up to
> show logging or not in that case. The boot image maybe able to be made
> persistent. That is it may be possible to get grub to leave some
> background up but as soon as the video card does anything that would
> be lost (like when the kernel loads the driver) The one time plymouth does
> run for a while is when booting from the ISO in the case of the live boot.
> It does let the user know something is happening.
>
> --
> Len Ovens
> www.OvenWerks.net
>
>
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Len Ovens]

On Sun, November 11, 2012 7:41 am, Len Ovens wrote:
> The boot image maybe able to be made
> persistent. That is it may be possible to get grub to leave some
> background up

Just some thoughts on this... it would mean customizing grub and the
maintenance that goes with that. I don't know how well that would work
with Ubuntu's solution to the whole secure boot thing.

-- 
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www.OvenWerks.net


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Re: Plymouth text version

[Len Ovens]

On Sun, November 11, 2012 7:13 am, Ho Wan Chan wrote:
> Maybe then we should just completely abolish the themeBut is that
> possible?

> 2012/11/11 Kaj Ailomaa 
>

>> Since we hardly have time to see it (which is a shame cause it's very
>> nice
>> looking), I barely see the point in having it in the first place.
>> I don't think we need to display the version number.

Yes it is possible to not install plymouth. The machine can be set up to
show logging or not in that case. The boot image maybe able to be made
persistent. That is it may be possible to get grub to leave some
background up but as soon as the video card does anything that would
be lost (like when the kernel loads the driver) The one time plymouth does
run for a while is when booting from the ISO in the case of the live boot.
It does let the user know something is happening.

-- 
Len Ovens
www.OvenWerks.net


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Re: Plymouth text version

[Ho Wan Chan]

Maybe then we should just completely abolish the themeBut is that
possible?


2012/11/11 Kaj Ailomaa 

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:05:08 +0100, Len Ovens  wrote:
>
>  As we are starting a new cycle, The text version of plymouth needs to be
>> updated. There was some discussion and it was noted that the graphics
>> version of plymouth has no version displayed. We are wondering if we
>> should just drop the versioning on the text version as well or not. The
>> text version shows up if the ISO is being tested on/in a vbox and may be
>> helpful to remind the tester what version they are working on... if that
>> person does a lot of testing of different versions :)
>>
>> For those who don't know, plymouth is what displays the ubuntustudio
>> symbol with the wheel effect around it in the graphics version and the
>> words Ubuntu Studio XX.XX with the moving dots under in the text version.
>>
>> Quite aside from that however, I would suggest that the backdrop for
>> lightdm should have the version number somewhere... And I would suggest
>> using numbers rather than the "code name". Some of the code names good,
>> some are not... (precise was good, but raring?). Even if the session
>> backdrop had the version added to a corner that would be fine.
>>
>> Anyway, vote here. when we get tired of waiting for votes we will run with
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
> Since we hardly have time to see it (which is a shame cause it's very nice
> looking), I barely see the point in having it in the first place.
> I don't think we need to display the version number.
>
>
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Re: Plymouth text version

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:05:08 +0100, Len Ovens  wrote:


As we are starting a new cycle, The text version of plymouth needs to be
updated. There was some discussion and it was noted that the graphics
version of plymouth has no version displayed. We are wondering if we
should just drop the versioning on the text version as well or not. The
text version shows up if the ISO is being tested on/in a vbox and may be
helpful to remind the tester what version they are working on... if that
person does a lot of testing of different versions :)

For those who don't know, plymouth is what displays the ubuntustudio
symbol with the wheel effect around it in the graphics version and the
words Ubuntu Studio XX.XX with the moving dots under in the text version.

Quite aside from that however, I would suggest that the backdrop for
lightdm should have the version number somewhere... And I would suggest
using numbers rather than the "code name". Some of the code names good,
some are not... (precise was good, but raring?). Even if the session
backdrop had the version added to a corner that would be fine.

Anyway, vote here. when we get tired of waiting for votes we will run  
with

it.




Since we hardly have time to see it (which is a shame cause it's very nice  
looking), I barely see the point in having it in the first place.

I don't think we need to display the version number.

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Re: Plymouth text version

[Ho Wan Chan]

>
> As we are starting a new cycle, The text version of plymouth needs to be
> updated. There was some discussion and it was noted that the graphics
> version of plymouth has no version displayed. We are wondering if we
> should just drop the versioning on the text version as well or not. The
> text version shows up if the ISO is being tested on/in a vbox and may be
> helpful to remind the tester what version they are working on... if that
> person does a lot of testing of different versions :)
>

Hmm since I DO do a lot of testing of different versions (and a fan of
Vbox) I am going to support it. Vote: Yes

>
> For those who don't know, plymouth is what displays the ubuntustudio
> symbol with the wheel effect around it in the graphics version and the
> words Ubuntu Studio XX.XX with the moving dots under in the text version.
>
> Quite aside from that however, I would suggest that the backdrop for
> lightdm should have the version number somewhere... And I would suggest
> using numbers rather than the "code name". Some of the code names good,
> some are not... (precise was good, but raring?). Even if the session
> backdrop had the version added to a corner that would be fine.
>

Just the version number, the codenames aren't really important compared to
version numbers.

smartboyhw
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