Re: [ubuntu-studio-users] Is Libre an acceptable substitute for MS office for college student? (long; sorry.)
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Pete Wright pnwri...@gmail.com wrote: I know what the answer to that question should be, but I am old enough to know how ignorant I am (plenty), so this is a legitimate serious question, not troll-bait. My 16-year-old high school junior is in a State of Washington program (Running Start) that lets students start college early, which she is doing, carrying a full load of college courses plus a couple of high school classes. She is bright and reasonably computer literate, but she has been writing for years and when the rest of the computer environment doesn't let her work as fast as a word processor does, she gets frustrated. She also has some health issues, so just letting her sink or swim on her own is not the best option; hence my effort to help her. The most recent bump she has hit is a biology assignment to make graphs out of data; the examples (samples) are provided as txt files and the instructions are to use Excel. Our first attempts to do the job with Libre calc and/or base failed. Her instructor, via email, just says use the computers at school if you don't have Excel. We don't own MS Office and because of her health and living more than am hour away from campus, using the school's computers are not often a good option. So, should she be able to do in LIbre what she would be able to do in MS Office? (I am assuming the college does not make much use of the fanciest bells and whistles that probably differentiate the two suites.) I can and do teach kids and adults how to use Gimp and Libre Writer instead of their high-priced counterparts, but when it comes to spreadsheets and such I barely know a range from an operator, so your responses can be basic to the point of primitive without danger of insulting me. I am interested in broad general answers to the broad question in the subject line, but would like to hear finer-grained answers about the graph-generation issue, as well. I tried a few years back to organize a local organization to persuade our schools to use Open Source software instead of proprietary stuff, but the teachers were all either Apple-only or totally computer illiterate. When the others gave up, I did too, and the effort fizzled. But I remain dedicated to using and proselytizing Open Source; just not very good at it. Helplessly yours, Pete for me, the problem lies in the very assignment. if the assignment is use a microsoft product to create a document..., then, thats the assignment. we all know that ilbreoffice is a viable product, and works as advertised, but the only way to work in the above situation is to create a document that looks like it was created in a microsoft product. i think this can be challenging for some specific documents such as spread sheets. i never understood what the issue was, since the teachers, and anyone else for that matter, is provided a free copy of libreoffice. but, the teachers arent interested in learning new software, and may legitimately not have access to installing software on the machines at their disposal (or, they just dont understand how to install software). i feel like for a linux solution, googe docs may have an advantage here, since you can usually just share a link with someone, and they can open the document created in any web browser without adding, changing, or installing something. still, its not a microsoft product. -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- MH mikeholstein.info http://www.mikeholstein.info/ -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: [ubuntu-studio-users] Is Libre an acceptable substitute for MS office for college student? (long; sorry.)
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Mike Holstein mikeh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Pete Wright pnwri...@gmail.com wrote: I know what the answer to that question should be, but I am old enough to know how ignorant I am (plenty), so this is a legitimate serious question, not troll-bait. My 16-year-old high school junior is in a State of Washington program (Running Start) that lets students start college early, which she is doing, carrying a full load of college courses plus a couple of high school classes. She is bright and reasonably computer literate, but she has been writing for years and when the rest of the computer environment doesn't let her work as fast as a word processor does, she gets frustrated. She also has some health issues, so just letting her sink or swim on her own is not the best option; hence my effort to help her. The most recent bump she has hit is a biology assignment to make graphs out of data; the examples (samples) are provided as txt files and the instructions are to use Excel. Our first attempts to do the job with Libre calc and/or base failed. Her instructor, via email, just says use the computers at school if you don't have Excel. We don't own MS Office and because of her health and living more than am hour away from campus, using the school's computers are not often a good option. So, should she be able to do in LIbre what she would be able to do in MS Office? (I am assuming the college does not make much use of the fanciest bells and whistles that probably differentiate the two suites.) I can and do teach kids and adults how to use Gimp and Libre Writer instead of their high-priced counterparts, but when it comes to spreadsheets and such I barely know a range from an operator, so your responses can be basic to the point of primitive without danger of insulting me. I am interested in broad general answers to the broad question in the subject line, but would like to hear finer-grained answers about the graph-generation issue, as well. I tried a few years back to organize a local organization to persuade our schools to use Open Source software instead of proprietary stuff, but the teachers were all either Apple-only or totally computer illiterate. When the others gave up, I did too, and the effort fizzled. But I remain dedicated to using and proselytizing Open Source; just not very good at it. Helplessly yours, Pete for me, the problem lies in the very assignment. if the assignment is use a microsoft product to create a document..., then, thats the assignment. we all know that ilbreoffice is a viable product, and works as advertised, but the only way to work in the above situation is to create a document that looks like it was created in a microsoft product. i think this can be challenging for some specific documents such as spread sheets. i never understood what the issue was, since the teachers, and anyone else for that matter, is provided a free copy of libreoffice. but, the teachers arent interested in learning new software, and may legitimately not have access to installing software on the machines at their disposal (or, they just dont understand how to install software). i feel like for a linux solution, googe docs may have an advantage here, since you can usually just share a link with someone, and they can open the document created in any web browser without adding, changing, or installing something. still, its not a microsoft product. I agree, it depends on the assignment. You should be able to create the same results using Libre Office but it might look a bit different cosmetically and have to be made doing a couple of other steps in the workflow than using Excel. The University I went to was supposed to accept Open Office/Libre Office or MS Office files when turning in assignments. However, some teachers just wouldn't bother with other than MS Office and to make sure they could open the files and make it look like I wanted to I only turned in PDF files. That said, even that would make some teachers come back to me claiming they could open my strange file ... Google Docs can work but I have found that more advanced (and some basic) features are not present in Google Docs. I use it only for simple layouts and straight-forward spreadsheets. /Jimmy -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: [ubuntu-studio-users] Is Libre an acceptable substitute for MS office for college student? (long; sorry.)
I graduated in 2008 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering using nothing but Open Source software. At the time it was still Open Office, but I used it flawlessly (Writer... Calc... Impress...) And I used SciLab instead of Matlab (although there was a Linux version of Matlab, not to mention Mathematica, Maple, Pro-E... etc.) The only thing Linux didn't have was a good alternative for Minitab. But I digress... Calc can do almost everything Excel can... Almost. And for the purpose of college it most certainly can. Hell, you should see some of the garbage graphs that Minitab produces and they are the industry standard in the real world. -- ©raig ®au On Nov 6, 2013 3:23 PM, Pete Wright pnwri...@gmail.com wrote: I know what the answer to that question should be, but I am old enough to know how ignorant I am (plenty), so this is a legitimate serious question, not troll-bait. My 16-year-old high school junior is in a State of Washington program (Running Start) that lets students start college early, which she is doing, carrying a full load of college courses plus a couple of high school classes. She is bright and reasonably computer literate, but she has been writing for years and when the rest of the computer environment doesn't let her work as fast as a word processor does, she gets frustrated. She also has some health issues, so just letting her sink or swim on her own is not the best option; hence my effort to help her. The most recent bump she has hit is a biology assignment to make graphs out of data; the examples (samples) are provided as txt files and the instructions are to use Excel. Our first attempts to do the job with Libre calc and/or base failed. Her instructor, via email, just says use the computers at school if you don't have Excel. We don't own MS Office and because of her health and living more than am hour away from campus, using the school's computers are not often a good option. So, should she be able to do in LIbre what she would be able to do in MS Office? (I am assuming the college does not make much use of the fanciest bells and whistles that probably differentiate the two suites.) I can and do teach kids and adults how to use Gimp and Libre Writer instead of their high-priced counterparts, but when it comes to spreadsheets and such I barely know a range from an operator, so your responses can be basic to the point of primitive without danger of insulting me. I am interested in broad general answers to the broad question in the subject line, but would like to hear finer-grained answers about the graph-generation issue, as well. I tried a few years back to organize a local organization to persuade our schools to use Open Source software instead of proprietary stuff, but the teachers were all either Apple-only or totally computer illiterate. When the others gave up, I did too, and the effort fizzled. But I remain dedicated to using and proselytizing Open Source; just not very good at it. Helplessly yours, Pete -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: [ubuntu-studio-users] Is Libre an acceptable substitute for MS office for college student? (long; sorry.)
Thanks, Hazan, Laurent, Rob, Mike, Jimmy, and Craig, You have been tremendously helpful. Knowing that we should be able to make things work is important, immediately and longer-range. The insights into the thinking of educators are also helpful. Moreover, I am now re-energized in the quest to get more educational tools into the hands of those who need it most, including kids who don't get encouraged at home and who may not even know they have potential. So thank you for the specific assistance and for the example of people taking the time to be helpful. Warmest regards to all, Pete PS -- Imagine what might happen if people start thinking about what they would do if they had a supercomputer of their very own that fit in a pocket. Then compare the specs on modern smartphones -- the ones that will sell for fifty bucks or less a couple of years from now -- with the specs of the CRAY-1 ca2000. Hope I can stick around for a few more years to see what happens. On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:56 AM, ©raig ®au craige...@gmail.com wrote: I graduated in 2008 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering using nothing but Open Source software. At the time it was still Open Office, but I used it flawlessly (Writer... Calc... Impress...) And I used SciLab instead of Matlab (although there was a Linux version of Matlab, not to mention Mathematica, Maple, Pro-E... etc.) The only thing Linux didn't have was a good alternative for Minitab. But I digress... Calc can do almost everything Excel can... Almost. And for the purpose of college it most certainly can. Hell, you should see some of the garbage graphs that Minitab produces and they are the industry standard in the real world. -- ©raig ®au On Nov 6, 2013 3:23 PM, Pete Wright pnwri...@gmail.com wrote: I know what the answer to that question should be, but I am old enough to know how ignorant I am (plenty), so this is a legitimate serious question, not troll-bait. My 16-year-old high school junior is in a State of Washington program (Running Start) that lets students start college early, which she is doing, carrying a full load of college courses plus a couple of high school classes. She is bright and reasonably computer literate, but she has been writing for years and when the rest of the computer environment doesn't let her work as fast as a word processor does, she gets frustrated. She also has some health issues, so just letting her sink or swim on her own is not the best option; hence my effort to help her. The most recent bump she has hit is a biology assignment to make graphs out of data; the examples (samples) are provided as txt files and the instructions are to use Excel. Our first attempts to do the job with Libre calc and/or base failed. Her instructor, via email, just says use the computers at school if you don't have Excel. We don't own MS Office and because of her health and living more than am hour away from campus, using the school's computers are not often a good option. So, should she be able to do in LIbre what she would be able to do in MS Office? (I am assuming the college does not make much use of the fanciest bells and whistles that probably differentiate the two suites.) I can and do teach kids and adults how to use Gimp and Libre Writer instead of their high-priced counterparts, but when it comes to spreadsheets and such I barely know a range from an operator, so your responses can be basic to the point of primitive without danger of insulting me. I am interested in broad general answers to the broad question in the subject line, but would like to hear finer-grained answers about the graph-generation issue, as well. I tried a few years back to organize a local organization to persuade our schools to use Open Source software instead of proprietary stuff, but the teachers were all either Apple-only or totally computer illiterate. When the others gave up, I did too, and the effort fizzled. But I remain dedicated to using and proselytizing Open Source; just not very good at it. Helplessly yours, Pete -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
[ubuntu-studio-users] Is Libre an acceptable substitute for MS office for college student? (long; sorry.)
I know what the answer to that question should be, but I am old enough to know how ignorant I am (plenty), so this is a legitimate serious question, not troll-bait. My 16-year-old high school junior is in a State of Washington program (Running Start) that lets students start college early, which she is doing, carrying a full load of college courses plus a couple of high school classes. She is bright and reasonably computer literate, but she has been writing for years and when the rest of the computer environment doesn't let her work as fast as a word processor does, she gets frustrated. She also has some health issues, so just letting her sink or swim on her own is not the best option; hence my effort to help her. The most recent bump she has hit is a biology assignment to make graphs out of data; the examples (samples) are provided as txt files and the instructions are to use Excel. Our first attempts to do the job with Libre calc and/or base failed. Her instructor, via email, just says use the computers at school if you don't have Excel. We don't own MS Office and because of her health and living more than am hour away from campus, using the school's computers are not often a good option. So, should she be able to do in LIbre what she would be able to do in MS Office? (I am assuming the college does not make much use of the fanciest bells and whistles that probably differentiate the two suites.) I can and do teach kids and adults how to use Gimp and Libre Writer instead of their high-priced counterparts, but when it comes to spreadsheets and such I barely know a range from an operator, so your responses can be basic to the point of primitive without danger of insulting me. I am interested in broad general answers to the broad question in the subject line, but would like to hear finer-grained answers about the graph-generation issue, as well. I tried a few years back to organize a local organization to persuade our schools to use Open Source software instead of proprietary stuff, but the teachers were all either Apple-only or totally computer illiterate. When the others gave up, I did too, and the effort fizzled. But I remain dedicated to using and proselytizing Open Source; just not very good at it. Helplessly yours, Pete -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: [ubuntu-studio-users] Is Libre an acceptable substitute for MS office for college student? (long; sorry.)
Hi Pete, I'm a biology and geology teacher in highschool, in southwestern France. In my highschool and in many highschool now in France, we let the choice for students and for teachers to have MS office and Libre Office on the same computer. Libre Office is installed everywhere and really used. MS office is disappering slowly because the headmaster just said that the teachers who want MS Office have to pay for the lastest licence by using pedagogicals credits. For us, the main trouble is not to use free software under windows, but to use only free software by installing GNU/Linux. As teacher, we propose to student several kind of exercices which are easy to do with both suite. Hope it helps. Laurent France Le 06/11/2013 22:22, Pete Wright a écrit : I know what the answer to that question should be, but I am old enough to know how ignorant I am (plenty), so this is a legitimate serious question, not troll-bait. My 16-year-old high school junior is in a State of Washington program (Running Start) that lets students start college early, which she is doing, carrying a full load of college courses plus a couple of high school classes. She is bright and reasonably computer literate, but she has been writing for years and when the rest of the computer environment doesn't let her work as fast as a word processor does, she gets frustrated. She also has some health issues, so just letting her sink or swim on her own is not the best option; hence my effort to help her. The most recent bump she has hit is a biology assignment to make graphs out of data; the examples (samples) are provided as txt files and the instructions are to use Excel. Our first attempts to do the job with Libre calc and/or base failed. Her instructor, via email, just says use the computers at school if you don't have Excel. We don't own MS Office and because of her health and living more than am hour away from campus, using the school's computers are not often a good option. So, should she be able to do in LIbre what she would be able to do in MS Office? (I am assuming the college does not make much use of the fanciest bells and whistles that probably differentiate the two suites.) I can and do teach kids and adults how to use Gimp and Libre Writer instead of their high-priced counterparts, but when it comes to spreadsheets and such I barely know a range from an operator, so your responses can be basic to the point of primitive without danger of insulting me. I am interested in broad general answers to the broad question in the subject line, but would like to hear finer-grained answers about the graph-generation issue, as well. I tried a few years back to organize a local organization to persuade our schools to use Open Source software instead of proprietary stuff, but the teachers were all either Apple-only or totally computer illiterate. When the others gave up, I did too, and the effort fizzled. But I remain dedicated to using and proselytizing Open Source; just not very good at it. Helplessly yours, Pete -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: [ubuntu-studio-users] Is Libre an acceptable substitute for MS office for college student? (long; sorry.)
On 2013-11-06 16:22, Pete Wright wrote: So, should she be able to do in LIbre what she would be able to do in MS Office? (I am assuming the college does not make much use of the fanciest bells and whistles that probably differentiate the two suites.) The short answer is yes. Reality is more complicated due to human nature; read on. The most recent bump she has hit is a biology assignment to make graphs out of data; the examples (samples) are provided as txt files and the instructions are to use Excel. Our first attempts to do the job with Libre calc and/or base failed. Her instructor, via email, just says use the computers at school if you don't have Excel. There are quite a few people, and there are college professors among them, who believe that Excel is the only acceptable program for a particular workflow, and nothing (including evidence to the contrary) will change their belief. Graphs are a very common example of that. The differences between Excel and Open/Libreoffice charting functions have derailed many a Linux desktop migration, not because Libreoffice is less capable, but because the menus are in different places, the options are called different things, etc. Your best bet, if you're serious about using free software but want your daughter to get a passing grade out of this professor, is to take a drive to the school, once, with either a laptop with Libreoffice on it or a USB key with Libreoffice Portable. Have your daughter do the assignment on Excel while you watch and figure out how to duplicate what she's doing in Libreoffice. Save your work in an .xls or .xlsx file and bring it up in Excel to verify the chart looks right. Then she'll know how to do charts in Libreoffice that the professor will accept (unless s/he's so maniacal about Microsoft that s/he combs through the file looking for references to competing office packages, which seems farfetched, but then, you do live in Microsoft country). I've heard of professors in grad schools who've rejected papers in double-spaced Courier with no other formatting simply because something tipped them off that they weren't produced in Word, and I live almost 3,000 miles from Redmond. I'm hoping your daughter's prof is less crazy. (For what it's worth, I've never owned a license to any MS Office program, and haven't had a PC running Windows (or anything else that didn't involve a Linux kernel) in 11 years now. My clients and vendors apparently don't care as long as they can read my files.) Good luck. Rob -- ubuntu-studio-users mailing list ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
