Re: Ardour and Funding
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kiernan Holland schrieb: >> >> It's beside the point as to which e-mail client one uses, these are general >> e-mail courtesies. But if you had checked my address you'd notice gmail in >> it as well. >> >> Please quit replying to yourself. Compose your e-mail then send it. For >> live chat, go to #ubuntustudio on the irc.freenode.net and have >> discussions there. >> >> -Eric >> >> > So are you doing this for yourself or for others.. He does it for others too - as for me for instance. You reply to yourself, that is useless, in real life as well as on computers that do not much more then putting real-life stuff on a network. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqlcTIACgkQ1Aecwva1SWMF0QCfblQMJxgS+Gd7QFm54XF39lZ6 8gMAn230f0w2V59XLtxrQU3skGNIN1Hf =7mwe -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
Kiernan Holland wrote: > Whatever you decide to do, rather than expecting everyone to format > their emails to your expectations, why not update your email program to This is not his expectation, but rather the expectation of the group. Some will disagree (as you seem to), but most of us think that this is a reasonable request to facilitate communication. > categorize your emails? > I already do that. I actually use sieve to sort them into folders server side. Having said that, 23+ messages (most from one person) for Ubuntu Studio is annoying to wade through as there was not really anything pertinent. > BTW, Gmail is virtually spam free, I don't know how they do it.. > Hard work. I maintain a number of mail servers, keeping things spam free takes work. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
Kiernan Holland wrote: > Sorry, I use Gmail which automatically threads the emails in batches.. I > don't have this problem anymore. It would be nice if the whole world > uses gmail, consider that you can use "https" which encrypts the > messages over untrusted lines.. But if you don't trust Google Mail, I'm > sure you could find a plugin for Thunderbird that would do the same > thing. But if you use Pine or Elm or some old terminal based email > program, I can't really help you. > > God forbid you are using outlook. But I can understand it if you are > using a crackberry. > Both my Blackberry and Thunderbird are able to connect directly to google (which only hosts one of my domains) via IMAPS (which in encrypted). No plugins or weirdness required. I only use the web GUI when I absolutely *have* to. As nice as it is when compared to other webmail front ends, I still get annoyed by it. Thunderbird is still my #1. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Re: Ardour and Funding
I didn't know Burning Man was wifi-enabled. On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 1:19 PM, wrote: > On Sep 7, 2009 3:09am, Kiernan Holland wrote: > > This listserv is Rude American free. I'm going to go remove myself, > Hasta.. > > > > > > > > You are a strange puppy, Kiernan. This is a listserv, dude, not a > revolution. Take it to the streets if you want to "SHAKE THINGS UP". > -- > Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list > Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Re: Ardour and Funding
On Sep 7, 2009 3:09am, Kiernan Holland wrote: This listserv is Rude American free. I'm going to go remove myself, Hasta.. You are a strange puppy, Kiernan. This is a listserv, dude, not a revolution. Take it to the streets if you want to "SHAKE THINGS UP". -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
This listserv is Rude American free. I'm going to go remove myself, Hasta.. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Jussi Schultink wrote: I got your message.. If you want to remove me from the listserv.. Do it.. I'm getting sick of it.. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
Are all open source listservs like this? -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
WHERE IS THE EXPRESSION in this listserv? Artists express? Who are the artists? I doubt there are any, cause there is no expression here.. It's momentary, asking help for drivers and such.. Usually about the sound side of things.. Nothing about the graphics or video.. This is why Ubuntu Studio is going to be dead.. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
When you increase the level of etiquette, the way of speaking, when a lot of emphasis in placed on correctness, people can be self-conscious, and overly concerned about perception. Perception sucks.. It just keeps people quiet, if I'm the worst one here, it will make it easier for someone who is better but self-conscious to speak up, and ask what they think are stupid questions. Break the form.. SHAKE IT UP It's the only way you can know you have something here. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
In a place where no messages pass.. It gives the assumption that the listserv is dead.. If there is not activity.. There is no life.. But if that is the way you prefer it.. I guess this project is really not ready fro the prime time. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
BTW, why don't you be a man and tell me to shut up? That's really what you are saying.. SHAKE THINGS UP You never know who may be wanting to speak here.. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Kiernan Holland wrote: > > >> >> It's beside the point as to which e-mail client one uses, these are >> general e-mail courtesies. But if you had checked my address you'd notice >> gmail in it as well. >> >> Please quit replying to yourself. Compose your e-mail then send it. For >> live chat, go to #ubuntustudio on the irc.freenode.net and have >> discussions there. >> >> -Eric >> >> > So are you doing this for yourself or for others.. I'd like to see who else > has a problem with my emails? I don't think it is beside the point. I think > the point is to make things easier and I'm suggesting a way.. If you are > unable to handle information, I suggest you get off the computer. > -- > Kiernan, I have a small issue with it. Sending a lot of mails replying to yourself is rather rude, especially when the mails are largely offtopic. Please attempt to stay on topic and follow the mailing list ettiquette - you can find it here http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists/etiquette Hope that helps explain it. And please, feel very free to visit the #ubuntustudio IRC channel. BR Jussi > Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list > Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
> > > It's beside the point as to which e-mail client one uses, these are general > e-mail courtesies. But if you had checked my address you'd notice gmail in > it as well. > > Please quit replying to yourself. Compose your e-mail then send it. For > live chat, go to #ubuntustudio on the irc.freenode.net and have > discussions there. > > -Eric > > So are you doing this for yourself or for others.. I'd like to see who else has a problem with my emails? I don't think it is beside the point. I think the point is to make things easier and I'm suggesting a way.. If you are unable to handle information, I suggest you get off the computer. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Eric Hedekar wrote: Oh you are on gmail.. Well now you know what you can do.. I don't know what you are complaining about.. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Kiernan Holland wrote: > Sorry, I use Gmail which automatically threads the emails in batches.. > > God forbid you are using outlook. But I can understand it if you are using > a crackberry. > > It's beside the point as to which e-mail client one uses, these are general e-mail courtesies. But if you had checked my address you'd notice gmail in it as well. Please quit replying to yourself. Compose your e-mail then send it. For live chat, go to #ubuntustudio on the irc.freenode.net and have discussions there. -Eric -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
You can tag emails with gmail so that messages are deleted when say they come from me.. Or you can tag emails to identify that they come from the ubuntu studio group.. I'm involved with two listservs, ubuntu studio and a local ubuntu group as well as receiving junk mail. I've got it set up such that when I get emails they are tagged with names that help me discern the message list from afar, with colors and names. Purple for Ubuntu Studio, Orange for Ubuntu Local.. Grey with the words "Crap" for junk mail that I care enough about not to delete. Also inside google email, your friends can send you quick chats to notify (using Ajax and javascript) that they are say online (on a friday) in ventrillo waiting to play Quake Wars. Also there are ways to have email receive there forwarded.. If you were unlucky enough to get Juno for a email address, for 5 dollars extra a month you can have your email forwarded (say to gmail).. Juno reserves the right to spam you by making their email filters exclude emails than only keep those people in your address book. I was on earthlink, paying 20 dollar monthly fee (with modem support) until I found out I could switch to a yearly internet only fee of about 30 dollars, and forward email from there. I'm not really sure if it is gmail or firefox that is helping me correct my spelling errors.. Whatever you decide to do, rather than expecting everyone to format their emails to your expectations, why not update your email program to categorize your emails? BTW, Gmail is virtually spam free, I don't know how they do it.. Also you can skin it, I have a "school desktop" theme. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
BTW, most email programs don't encrypt the emails, and can travel over lines in plaintext. I think they often do. You might consider using thunderbird if you aren't.I think there is plugins to encrypt the emails that are sent around. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
Sorry, I use Gmail which automatically threads the emails in batches.. I don't have this problem anymore. It would be nice if the whole world uses gmail, consider that you can use "https" which encrypts the messages over untrusted lines.. But if you don't trust Google Mail, I'm sure you could find a plugin for Thunderbird that would do the same thing. But if you use Pine or Elm or some old terminal based email program, I can't really help you. God forbid you are using outlook. But I can understand it if you are using a crackberry. > > Oh, looks like I have another e-mail from you... off I go to read. > Please don't take offense, I mean these suggestions in a very polite > manner, and I hope that you continue to keep this list full of active > conversation - just in a more orderly fashion if possible. > -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Kiernan Holland wrote: > Ton is very friendly, and I'm sure if the developer of Ardour, Paul Davis > approached Ton, Ton might be able to give some help/suggestions. > > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Kiernan Holland wrote: > >> You know something that blender really sucks at.. The mixing of sound for >> movies in it's sequence editor (which fairly close to being a complete >> non-destructive movie editor). Now if Ardour was made to work in blender, >> I'm sure Ardour could find some funding, and may even find developers to >> make cross platform compatibility possible, which would attract more funding >> (possibly attract more people to the linux platform, especially if people >> like ardour but need to fix latency problems that exist in windows). >> >> >> > Hi Kiernan, I understand your enthusiasm for Ardour and Blender but it's very frustrating to open my inbox to five new e-mails in a row from you. Would you be able to try keeping it to one reply at a time? Thanks. A couple thoughts though: - Please bottom post (where the response goes under the original message) on this mailing list, it makes it easier to follow converations. - This list probably isn't the best place to request Ardour features. The best place for that would be through the Ardour website/mailinglist/forums/etc... Oh, looks like I have another e-mail from you... off I go to read. Please don't take offense, I mean these suggestions in a very polite manner, and I hope that you continue to keep this list full of active conversation - just in a more orderly fashion if possible. Thanks. -Eric -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
I keep spelling Ton's last name wrong.. It's Ton Roosendaal . I've always had a hard time with that last name. Anyhow, Ton's one of the kindest people.. I'm sure if he doesn't respond to Paul it will be because he's too busy. But Ton was in Paul's position sort of when blender was in freeware, and Ton was asking $60K to develop blender each year. He eventually got to pursue blender as a commercial/freeware project, with about 5 million seed funding.. But that's what led to the effort to release the sources, cause NaN went bankrupt. I'm out of touch with Ton, but I'm sure he's still developing the software mostly himself because he's a bit of a perfectionist (and concerned about it's development because it's his baby). But I'm not sure how much of the development is being shared with the community. I pressured after the sources were released, that there should be more involvement with the users on what features should be in blender. But Ton pushed the point that only those who develop get the features they want in. But somewhere, maybe when I left forums, something happened, and it seems they found a way to work better with the community. I'm not suggesting Paul get involved in the same way that was done with blender, but that he may find a better way to receive support than especting direct support, like providing a product aside from the development, like pre-purchased DVD's and a name in the credits of some music work. Remember what made Jonathan Coulton popular? Song a week and puting the result into creative commons. If Paul could do that with his software, distribute the sources with a musical CD or a Video, released in creative commons and liner notes with contributors and pre-purchasers in the credits, that would probably fund Ardour's development better. He might have to change his name, or go under a nickname, because there is an American songwriter named Paul Davis who made a lot of songs in the 70s and 80s, like "I go crazy", "cool night" and "'65 love affair". But now that Paul Davis passed away (RIP), there should be less confusion, just may make releasing a commercial CD harder. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
Ton is very friendly, and I'm sure if the developer of Ardour, Paul Davis
approached Ton, Ton might be able to give some help/suggestions.
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Kiernan Holland wrote:
> You know something that blender really sucks at.. The mixing of sound for
> movies in it's sequence editor (which fairly close to being a complete
> non-destructive movie editor). Now if Ardour was made to work in blender,
> I'm sure Ardour could find some funding, and may even find developers to
> make cross platform compatibility possible, which would attract more funding
> (possibly attract more people to the linux platform, especially if people
> like ardour but need to fix latency problems that exist in windows).
>
>
>
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Re: Ardour and Funding
You know something that blender really sucks at.. The mixing of sound for movies in it's sequence editor (which fairly close to being a complete non-destructive movie editor). Now if Ardour was made to work in blender, I'm sure Ardour could find some funding, and may even find developers to make cross platform compatibility possible, which would attract more funding (possibly attract more people to the linux platform, especially if people like ardour but need to fix latency problems that exist in windows). -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
I'm guessing the Blender guys are raising 2 million for their current film.. I may be wrong, but is 200 something.. $200K ?? How they entice people to support the project is to include their names in the credits, and the donation includes a copy of the DVD when the movie comes out. But Ton's really good at media production.. When he released blender, it was about a year and he produced a 200 page manual that looked unlike anything I've ever seen of a free product. His previous company, NeoGeo made multimedia presentations for its clients, they even attempted to turn blender into something they could publish Sony Playstation games on, that's where the source of game blender originally came from. The reason they don't really develop game blender is because blender is all C code, and Game blender is written in C++. Anyhow, they use these projects like Elephant's Dream, Big Buck Bunny and Durian, to develop the software by listening to what the animators need to do the work, then any tools they make they put out into open source. Because blender was developed as an in-house tool, that's how it got developed before it ever was freeware, and later open source. They work with the animators that work on the movie and code up the tools needed, or I guess address the developers to make the tools needed. But they tend to finish their major releases before SIGGRAPH, and with that major release comes the movie. This time it didn't seem like they did that. Mainly because what they are planning for this release sounds very challenging (everything animateable [and controllable with expressions] and construction history). Note: Maya, Softimage, Houdini, 3DsMax are known for construction history features. I know Softimage has animateable construction history. Houdini is the best for it. 3DsMax uses stack based construction which blender seems to support now. But lack of plugin support doesn't make it as capable as 3DsMax. The reason blender doesn't use plugins is to encourage that everyone has the same tool to do work so that everyone can share files and learn. Plugins would make blend files incompatible, so it's more a concern of what should or shouldn't be in blender. Maya has scriptable construction history, I think this is what they are targeting for blender 2.50. If Blender has scriptable construction history then scripts could be made to do the work (with python) that would otherwise require a plugin. Note, the files in blender are forward and backward compatible, part of the reason for that is that the features that were in it from day one are mostly still in it, so all the blend file is is a binary dump of the data structures in blender. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ardour and Funding
Or maybe better yet, a contest, when you pay for entry into the contest, and
all the contributions go into creative commons, The top ten make it into the
album, but everything in the album has to be made with open source software,
such that the resulting files can be created raw simple audio tracks without
effects or with midi data using sound fonts, patches or other such things.
Or have some musicians put a CD together of some music created with Ardour
and Jack, and put the result into creative commons, if people raise enough
money, with the money going toward the developement of Ardour.
Another example would be say having a number of people submit songs, and
showing how they made the song with Ardour and other packages. Then submit
that. And sell the DVD that includes the files used to make the songs, and
the tutorials.
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Kiernan Holland wrote:
> Maybe they should do what the blender project does to make money.
> Make a album say, and release the music and the samples used to make the
> song, and jack setup, and such open source or creative commons. So that
> people can experiment with the files and learn from them.
>
>
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--{ GOOGLE THIS }---
[about me]: chann3lz bl3nder rofthorax-youtube
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[interests]: cloudcomputing electronics programming simplification
3d-animation music pc-games art
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Re: Ardour and Funding
Maybe they should do what the blender project does to make money. Make a album say, and release the music and the samples used to make the song, and jack setup, and such open source or creative commons. So that people can experiment with the files and learn from them. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Ardour and Funding
Over at the Ardour.org website, there has been some pretty good discussion concerning funding for Ardour, and for FOSS audio projects in general. The discussion has inspired me to send out another reminder (one of which comes up every now and then on this list) that Ardour is still on shaky financial grounds. Next to JACK, Ardour is the most important piece of software for my personal use within Ubuntu Studio, and this ditstro would be essentially useless to me without Ardour. Many of you probably feel the same way, and so I encourage you to become a subscriber. There are currently only 290 monthly subscribers, and this seems to me to be a shame. If you can, please subscribe, and if a monthly payment is not something you can do, then at least consider a single donation. Anything helps. Thanks! -- -Brian David -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
