Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
Without wanting to go back on the discussions that have already happened, staying on Hardy is not a good option for me - as I've been through over a period of months here, and on the forums, and on launchpad, my firewire host card does not work with the Hardy kernel. The issue is fixed as of .26, so in order to avoid several hundred dollars worth of hardware sitting idle in my studio I need a -rt that works on Intrepid. It's an expensive prospect for me, seeing as the A$500 I spent on my Focusrite is almost as much as I earn in a fortnight. Just my $0.05. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
Chris Wenn wrote: Without wanting to go back on the discussions that have already happened, staying on Hardy is not a good option for me - as I've been through over a period of months here, and on the forums, and on launchpad, my firewire host card does not work with the Hardy kernel. The issue is fixed as of .26, so in order to avoid several hundred dollars worth of hardware sitting idle in my studio I need a -rt that works on Intrepid. It's an expensive prospect for me, seeing as the A$500 I spent on my Focusrite is almost as much as I earn in a fortnight. Just my $0.05. As of now, the situation is totally up in the air, and somewhat out of our hands. We're trying to get -rt merged into .27 but things are nuts in Ubuntu land as far as the kernel goes. We don't even know yet what will happen. Best case scenario, we ship a .27-rt kernel in line with main Ubuntu or we ship -generic with a SRU to -rt later after release. That's all I know atm. You guys know what I do. -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
On Sun, 2008-09-14 at 08:51 -0400, Cory K. wrote: As of now, the situation is totally up in the air, and somewhat out of our hands. We're trying to get -rt merged into .27 but things are nuts in Ubuntu land as far as the kernel goes. We don't even know yet what will happen. Best case scenario, we ship a .27-rt kernel in line with main Ubuntu or we ship -generic with a SRU to -rt later after release. That's all I know atm. You guys know what I do. Sorry Cory - i didn't mean to sound so critical - your hard work is appreciated! Is a .26-rt kernel completely out of the question? I note that there is a .26 based linux-rt package in the archives, but attempting to install results in: Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation: The following packages have unmet dependencies: linux-restricted-modules-rt: Depends: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.26-1-rt but it is not installable E: Broken packages Chris -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 12:26 AM, psycho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree totaly ;-) -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users I think I can't talk in the behalf of all Ubuntu Studio developers when I say alex stone's reply made me trully happy. We use our free time to deliver a product that is as best as we can with our limitations, and it is so great to hear about happy users and satisfied people. There is no financial year, no secret agenda... We do Ubuntu Studio for you, to spoil you of choise :P Luis -- Luis de Bethencourt Guimerá luisbg [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: B0ED1326 -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Luis de Bethencourt schrieb: We are in a bad situation with a lot of kernel work needed and not much help. Ubuntu Studio is done by a community of volunteer developers. To be a little behind the latest greatest in kernel-development would be perfectly acceptable for me. I run Ardour 2.5 on Ubuntu 7.10 with a MSI-Laptop 12 Months old -- it works quite well. So having new apps in Intrepid and wait maybe 3-4 months for a brand new kernel should not be that big an issue. And that could free you dev-people from the pressure, to have a brand-new kernel running in time for the next Ubuntu-release. BTW: have you asked Canonical for help on this? Such as: assistance by a paid dev to make the rt-Kernel run Ubuntu Studio is geared towards audio users, as so to other digital artists. Don't forget about graphics and video. To be honest: the graphics/video inclusion is quite nice but: 1.) graphic work can be done in any Linux - you dont need a specialized distro for that. GIMP is standard, just install Inkscape, Blender, Krita and maybe Xara and your done in standard Ubuntu (Mandriva, Debian, Suse, Knoppix you name it...) as well. 2.) I do not see a pro-grade videosystem in Ubuntustudio. Cinelerra has its patent-issues (that do not apply in Europe BTW) and is quite oldish today. So video is not really covered anyway. The important reason to use Ubuntu Studio ist the rt-kernel and its integration in the Ubuntu-System - having all the same HW-support in a rt-system as you can have in a desktop-distro is unique. best regards HZN -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIvqbP1Aecwva1SWMRAnkhAJ92RdKVPB+DzjbEjO/eSyTGX7AO9ACfRuXB rNQKdEjoltaiH5FlW4Jexhg= =B1/U -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
Hartmut Noack wrote: To be a little behind the latest greatest in kernel-development would be perfectly acceptable for me. Well the situation isn't that easy. We have to have a source package in the repos that spits out our binary. So going further back than .26 isn't an option. But, .26 has *major* issues all over the place. The reason for the move to .27. The tentative plan is to ship -generic for Intrepid and *maybe* have a SRU that shifts us to -rt. In the meantime, we will encourage people to use Hardy and have a major effort to backport more apps. Not ideal, but it will still cover a significant segment of our user base. -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
On Wed, 2008-09-03 at 17:01 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: To be a little behind the latest greatest in kernel-development would be perfectly acceptable for me.[...] And that could free you dev-people from the pressure, to have a brand-new kernel running in time for the next Ubuntu-release. [...] To be honest: the graphics/video inclusion is quite nice but: 1.) graphic work can be done in any Linux [...] 2.) I do not see a pro-grade videosystem in Ubuntustudio.[...] The important reason to use Ubuntu Studio ist the rt-kernel and its integration in the Ubuntu-System - having all the same HW-support in a rt-system as you can have in a desktop-distro is unique. best regards HZN Same wave length here... Specular to my opinion. Sergio -- Sergio Bello - Software Architect Sintechno S.r.l. [www.sintechno.it] -- There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't... -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
On Wednesday 03 September 2008 06:06:26 Luis de Bethencourt wrote: I use the machine for audio, if an out of sync kernel is the requirement for rt, than, yes. That said, this is like any other product and decisions made by proprietary software companies: what is the best solution in regards to product development vs. customer satisfaction; sans profit motive of course. Also, I would not be upset. The same as the development group, the users would make decisions base on their needs. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
Ditto! Compile KernelBad Burn DVD or CD and hit the go buttonGood! I'll wait. Joe On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Cory K. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all. This is going out to a couple of lists so I can get as wide an opinion as I can. I'll correct any inaccuracies as this discussion progresses. Quick intro: I'm Cory K. Lean on Ubuntu Studio. Hi :) So here's the pickle we're in as I understand it. The way the kernels are now managed in Ubuntu has changed radically in this release. Thus causing our kernel guy *much* more work that ever before. We've had to work very hard to get upstream -rt to support the .26 kernel but, now mainline Ubuntu has moved to 2.6.27. Which upstream -rt doesn't *look* to support yet. So because of these, and other issues that don't matter to the question I have we're looking at these options: * Shipping the -generic kernel with this 8.10 release of Ubuntu Studio and let people compile their own -rt kernel. With a latter PPA release of -rt for testing as upstream support happens. * Ship a out-of-sync 2.6.26-rt kernel, hoping for a Stable Update Release in Intrepid with .27 later. Of some combination of those. Thoughts on what to do? What do users want? (please be mature) -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users -- Joe -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
On Tuesday 02 September 2008 14:37:46 joe atanacio wrote: Ditto! Ditto!! I moved to Ubuntu-Studio because it had rt and installed on my machine with ease. Why ship a product geared towards audio users without rt? Itś like shipping a muscle car with a four cylinder engine. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Cory K. schrieb: * Shipping the -generic kernel with this 8.10 release of Ubuntu Studio and let people compile their own -rt kernel. This could be done in any Distro so there would not be a real Ubuntustudio anymore. The major strength of UBuntustudio is its near-perfect integration of a audiosystem with a friendly desktop-distro. I can run VMWare and NVIDIA-Drivers easily with the UBuntu rt kernel would be a major p.i.t.a. do make stuff like that run with a self made kernel. * Ship a out-of-sync 2.6.26-rt kernel, hoping for a Stable Update Release in Intrepid with .27 later. This would be perfectly acceptable for me :-) best regs HZN BTW: what is so extremely important in .27? new hardwaresupport not achievable with .26? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIvEhQ1Aecwva1SWMRAmTKAJwMGrAGXqWQ4Xr7Zyc7MVZTA8hCWwCfVDpw CpcTXD2CTF12KV+F/1kXrxM= =gL/T -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
Marc R.J. Brevoort wrote: On Mon, 1 Sep 2008, Cory K. wrote: we're looking at these options: * Shipping the -generic kernel with this 8.10 release of Ubuntu Studio and let people compile their own -rt kernel. With a latter PPA release of -rt for testing as upstream support happens. * Ship a out-of-sync 2.6.26-rt kernel, hoping for a Stable Update Release in Intrepid with .27 later. For me, the great thing about UbuntuStudio is that things work out of the box: I don't *have* to compile a kernel to get proper realtime support. Over the years, I've closely followed the progress in Linux Audio land and have compiled lots of kernels, but am very glad that I rarely have to anymore (if ever). If the realtime kernel lags a version behind, so be it- If I really need the latest bleeding edge functionality *now*, I can always decide to compile my own anyway, but I'm more likely to simply wait until it appears and be OK with it. So from my point of view, an out-of-sync RT kernel would be fine. But as different people have different needs, let's hear what others have to say. Best, Marc One of the big things will be device support as the new kernel brings better support. Along with very much improved (or so I'm told) suspend/resume support. While this shipping an out-of-sync kernel looks like the best option, it also have it's major drawbacks. So while you might have an -rt kernel, you might have bad performance from the devices you need the kernel for. Make no mistake. This is a major issue that *could* make us skip a release. In the end, it might be the way to go rather than ship a release we're not proud of. -Cory K. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:28:34 -0400 Cory K. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... How about: shipping -generic until there is a .27-rt and provide the out-of-sync kernel as option in a ppa. It would be great if the .27-rt would be able to automagically replace the ppa version. This is an idea yes. But, a user would have to manually add the PPA after their upgrade to Intrepid. The Hardy-Intrepid upgrade would require a little more manual intervention than normal. And no matter how well the instructions were, people will complain. This is all certainly doable, we're just gonna get alot of crap. Sux when we're all volunteers. AFAIR upgrading was always problematic, same converting plain Ubuntu to Ubuntu Studio, so nothing really new here. What should IMHO be new this time are the instructions. First and foremost they should be placed prominently at the website and thus really easy to find, something that wasn't the case until now. There were some people interested in the website, it shouldn't be too hard to present the instructions for those two (three?) very common cases in an adequate manner. The other very common channel is IRC. There are people who don't see the channel topic, so it might also be time to have ChanServ (?) write a message on entry. I'm not around the forums so I don't really know what's adequate there, maybe something like a sticky topic? I know that this won't take all the crap but it should take some. I haven't tested those kernels yet, and while it is said that more and more rt-stuff goes into the generic kernel word is out that .26 is pretty bad for audio and midi. Yep. As stated by Paul D. on another list. It would be good to hear some hands-on experience from people who already test intrepid. Agreed. -Cory K. Can you tell us how usable it already is? To my knowledge there's Alpha4 right now, Alpha5 should come on September 4. My real install will likely be from the Ubuntu mini.iso but I might do an install from DVD for test purposes once it's close enough to the real thing. I hope the whole thing shapes up somehow. Best Regards, Philipp -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Ubuntu Studio 8.10, -rt and 2.6.27
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Cory K. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Make no mistake. This is a major issue that *could* make us skip a release. In the end, it might be the way to go rather than ship a release we're not proud of. My first reaction to reading this conversation is that releasing software packages with major functionality issues (no realtime audio support is a major functionality issue for a large portion of your userbase) is a big no no. I'd say for now, plan to not release, but get your workload schedules perfect for Jazzy Jackalope (9.04) - and make it worth the wait. Also, look into working on an intrepid-like metapackage update for hardy (call it ubuntustudio-8.04.2). I don't know how feasable this strategy might be, but it's what popped into my head. I think using a generic .27 kernel until a -rt version is released would only be acceptable if a guaranteed update date for the -rt could be publicized before the release of intrepid (I'm aware of how impossible this is). Once again, this is just my opinion on the matter. Using a .26 kernel scares me. My experience with UbuntuStudio Intrepid so far has been fairly brief, as it's apparent my ati graphics card doesn't like the ati drivers in Intrepid repositories (one of the first tweaks to the system I attempted was to get compiz-fusion up). I haven't had time to fix the graphics yet, so I can't say much for the audio (just yet). -Eric Hedekar -- ___ http://greyrockstudio.blogspot.com -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
