Re: translation software?

2010-08-25 Thread Oleg Koptev 
Hello, Tom

For .doc files it could be anaphraseus
- extension for OOo. It similar
to proprietary Wordfast or Trados CAT.

PDF could be converted to text and then translated in OOo with Anaphraseus
also. But I also recommend to use utility txt2po from Translate Toolkit
project . It will generate segmented
.po file from text, which could be then easily and comfortably translated in
software like above noted OmegaT, Virtaal or Gtranslator. After all you
could convert .po back to .txt with CLI utility po2txt.

If PDF have many graphics and you need to hold it as is, you could open it
in Inkscape - amazing vector editor with excellent PDF import - and
translate it directly there.

hope it helps.

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Re: Suggestion: Faster lanugage pack update after final release

2010-08-25 Thread Fran Dieguez 
Hi all,

>  how many releases, in terms of stable and LTS sould we be
> doing updates?
> 
> Right now stable updates (in the PPA) are running for Karmic and Lucid,
> which are basically the stable + old stable releases.
> 
> Do you think this is enough?
> 
I think is enough. Stable and old stable release are the most used
versions of Ubuntu and not for all translators groups is easy to
maintain more than 2 versions.

> > * How often do we want to update each release (current stable, old,
> > LTSs)?
> > Normal release: 2 weeks, 2 motnhs, 8 months after stable release
> > LTS release: 2 weeks after release and after that in time for every
> > point release
> > 
> 
> Sounds good to me, although perhaps for LTS we would want to have more
> updates during the first 6 months?

I agree with David, the first 6 months of every release are critical for
finding bugs into translations. So I think every 2 months between the
2nd and 8th month should be a translations update

> 
> Any other translators have got other suggestions?
> 
> > * How many teams would be testing the updates?
> > Slovenian team continiously tests the updates. A couple of translators
> > uses - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa/ and hence
> > always uses the newset translations, so they test the strings in
> > programs they commonly use. Testing of other programs depends on team
> > members' available time / motivation, which can vary.
> > 
> 
> That's good to know, we should probably better announce the existence of
> the PPA, as it seems not many people are aware of it.

We must do it. This PPA should be used by all the people working at
translations. But, indeed, this PPA should have the testing release
(currently Maverick) too. A lot of people working at translations
install the testing release cause is the best way to find bugs before
the beta/alfa/final release comes, and we need to update translation
packages faster than "normal" users.

> > * Where could we host a public calendar for the updates?

> Yes, I believe we could create a language pack release schedule along
> the lines of the main Ubuntu Release schedule, but it would also be
> useful to provide an iCal feed for people wanted to subscribe. I just
> need the time to find out more about calendar feeds :)
> 
Please, this is something I always I'm looking for!

Today I sent an email to the galician team with a proposed procedure for
handle bugs faster using our mail list and some scripts I wrote some
time ago. Here you can read the message (I can't find a way to paste the
url into Google translate so please translate it copying the text in
Google translate Galician->English):

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-l10n-gl/2010-August/001682.html 

Thanks for the good work.
Regards


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Re: Announcing the Next Ubuntu Bug Day! - August 26th 2010

2010-08-25 Thread David Planella 
El dl 23 de 08 de 2010 a les 12:31 -0400, en/na Kamus va escriure:
> Fellow Ubuntu Triagers!
> 
> This week's Bug Day target is *drum roll please*  Ubuntu Translations!
> 
> * 15 New bugs need a hug
> 
> * 31 Incompletes bugs need a status check
> 
> * 42 Confirmed bugs need a review
> 
> 
> 
> Bookmark it, add it to your calendars, turn over those egg-timers!
>  * Thursday 26th August 2010
>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100826
> 
> 
> Are you looking for a way to start giving some love back to your
> adorable Ubuntu Project? Did you ever wonder what Triage is? Want to
> learn about that? This is a perfect time!, Everybody can help in a Bug Day!
> 
> Open your IRC Client and go to #ubuntu-bugs (FreeNode) the BugSquad
> will be happy to help you to start contributing!
> 
> Wanna be famous? Is easy! remember to use 5-A-day so if you do a good
> work your name could be listed at the top 5-A-Day Contributors in the
> Ubuntu Hall of Fame page!
> 
> We are always looking for new tasks or ideas for the Bug Days, if you have one
> add it to the Planning page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning
> 
> 
> If you're new to all this and you want to know
> more about ubuntu?, head to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs
> 
> Have a nice day,
>  Kamus
>  [From the BugSquad]

Hi translators,

I just wanted to send a heads up on the Bug Day for Ubuntu Translations
tomorrow.

This will be a great opportunity to help triaging, testing or fixing the
current list of bugs we've got in the translations project in Launchpad:

  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations

As you see we've got quite a number of open bugs, but only a few are
considered high [1] as of now, and it would be great if we could squash
all those before release.

In any case, I want to stress that everyone can help in making a
rocking, translation bug-free Meerkat. There are plenty of areas to
contribute:

  * Join us tomorrow the whole day at #ubuntu-bugs or
#ubuntu-translators
  * Go through the list of bugs at [2]. See if there is anything you
can help with. A fix would be awesome, but sometimes just a
comment or some investigation can be equally awesome to unblock
a bug.
  * See if your translations team has any pending bugs assigned. You
can go to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~ to
check out (e.g. ubuntu-l10n-pl for the Polish team).
  * Report any bugs you see in translation. That's the only way to
fix them. You can simply go to
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+filebug and file
yours
  * Any other method you can think of to squash those annoying
translation bugs

You'll find more info at:

  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100826

See you all tomorrow!

Regards,
David.

[1] 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bugs?search=Search&field.importance=High&field.status=New&field.status=Incomplete&field.status=Confirmed&field.status=Triaged&field.status=In+Progress&field.status=Fix+Committed
[2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations

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Re: Suggestion: Faster lanugage pack update after final release

2010-08-25 Thread David Planella 
Hi Andrej,

Thanks a lot for your answers, they are really valuable feedback.

El dg 22 de 08 de 2010 a les 11:18 +0200, en/na Andrej Žnidaršič va
escriure:
> My answers to your questions are:
> 
> 
> Things to consider for a schedule:
> 
> * How many releases' translations we want to update?
> 
> 
> I would say 2-3 translation updates for normal release and 5 for LTS.
> 

Sorry, I should have perhaps formulated my question better here. I
meant, for how many releases, in terms of stable and LTS sould we be
doing updates?

Right now stable updates (in the PPA) are running for Karmic and Lucid,
which are basically the stable + old stable releases.

Do you think this is enough?

> * How often do we want to update each release (current stable, old,
> LTSs)?
> Normal release: 2 weeks, 2 motnhs, 8 months after stable release
> LTS release: 2 weeks after release and after that in time for every
> point release
> 

Sounds good to me, although perhaps for LTS we would want to have more
updates during the first 6 months?

Any other translators have got other suggestions?

> * How many teams would be testing the updates?
> Slovenian team continiously tests the updates. A couple of translators
> uses - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive/ppa/ and hence
> always uses the newset translations, so they test the strings in
> programs they commonly use. Testing of other programs depends on team
> members' available time / motivation, which can vary.
> 

That's good to know, we should probably better announce the existence of
the PPA, as it seems not many people are aware of it.

> 
> Additionally in my experience, translations tend to improve with time
> due to the nature of work. Bugs, which are fixed, almost never get
> reintroduced (very few regressions) because almost nobody goes and
> makes a translation bad again. New bugs only appear when new strings
> are translated. Translations with small number of minor bugs are in my
> opinion better then no translation. Also slovenian team is to small to
> test all the translations as they appear inside the programs and
> without that it's difficult to translate strings properly, so we just
> fixed them when we see them.
> So update in translation should be an upgrade in quality in 99%+
> cases.
> 

I agree. In any case though, and for the reasons stated on my previous
e-mail, I believe we still need testing before uploading the language
packs to the -updates repository.

> * Where could we host a public calendar for the updates?
> 
> 
> Maybe it could be written on ubuntu wiki (translation section).
> A notice 3 weeks before the string export from launchpad on the
> translators mailing list would be a useful reminder.
> 

Yes, I believe we could create a language pack release schedule along
the lines of the main Ubuntu Release schedule, but it would also be
useful to provide an iCal feed for people wanted to subscribe. I just
need the time to find out more about calendar feeds :)

Thanks again!

Regards,
David

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Re: Suggestion: Faster lanugage pack update after final release

2010-08-25 Thread David Planella 
El dj 19 de 08 de 2010 a les 21:13 +0200, en/na Ask Hjorth Larsen va
escriure:
> Hi David and Andrej
> 
[...]

Hey :), and sorry for the delay in replying

> 
> We had the same issue as Andrej - after the release, multiple errors
> were spotted in a short amount of time, a few of which were really
> annoying.  A language pack upgrade after 2-3 weeks would be ideal,

Yeah, we can do that, it's just a matter of having a calendar in place
and take care of scheduling it.

>  and
> I also think that 'automatic' (from our point of view :)) upgrades
> every so often (1-2 months) would be a good thing if possible.
> 

Ideally, I would also like to see automatic uploads of language packs,
just in the same way we do already during the development cycle. But
from a QA point of view, until there is an automated way of also testing
those translations, that is not likely to happen.

> Is there any particular reason not to provide lots of updates to
> language packs? (Can things easily go wrong?)
> 

Things can go wrong. Mistakes in translations can cause application
crashes, which are pretty severe issues from a user standpoint.

The majority of typos are caught upon input at the Launchpad level,
where error checking is performed internally using the standard gettext
tools, but there are sometimes subtle mistakes (often associated with
substitution variables in translatable strings) which for one reason or
the other cannot be caught, which can easily lead to a crash.

Ubuntu has grown to a huge user base, and they understandably expect
smooth updates with no regressions. That's why we have a strict stable
releases policy, where you can read the background in more detail:

  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates

The point that translation mistakes do not happen that often is in my
opinion a slightly flawed reason to automatically push updates, as there
is a founded risk for potential bugs.

I know that testers cannot do a 100% test coverage, but I believe it is
a good compromise to let them provide a sign off acknowledging that
they've done some minimal testing. The simple procedure outlined on the
language pack updates QA makes sure that if a language pack has been
tested, users can be sure that they can at least boot and have the
system in a state where they can at least send e-mail and report bugs: 

  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA

That gives us:

  * Some minimum testing
  * A point of contact to talk to if things go wrong

Now, we've talked about this in several UDS editions, and I can see that
the procedure needs improvement, but so far no one has had the time to
work on this. Given the current infrastructure and testing methods, I
can see two actions that might need work:

  * Creation of a language pack release schedule, taking into
account frequency of updates for stable, development and LTS
releases
  * Drafting of a procedure in which translation teams can request
occasional updates outside the regular update window

Would anyone want to help on this? Any feedback would be great.

I hope this clarifies things, looking forward to more feedback!

Regards,
David.

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Re: translation software?

2010-08-25 Thread Tony Yarusso 
My uncle uses one called OmegaT, which is in the repos.

 - Tony

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Re: Unclear string in ubiquity-debconf

2010-08-25 Thread Milo Casagrande 
2010/8/25 David Planella :
>
> I think it is a bug, and I'd also think the intention was to write what
> Geir is suggesting.
>
> Daniel, do you think you could file a bug against ubiquity and add a bug
> task (*) for the ubuntu-translations project?
>
>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+filebug

It should have been file already:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/615036

Ciao.

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Re: Unclear string in ubiquity-debconf

2010-08-25 Thread David Planella 
El dc 25 de 08 de 2010 a les 17:51 +0200, en/na Geir Hauge va escriure:
> 
> 
> 2010/8/25 Daniel Nylander 
> 
> "Please off me non-open-source software if it is needed for a
> better
> experience"
> 
> 
> At first glance I'd say it's probably supposed to be "Please offer
> me ..." 
> 

I think it is a bug, and I'd also think the intention was to write what
Geir is suggesting.

Daniel, do you think you could file a bug against ubiquity and add a bug
task (*) for the ubuntu-translations project?

  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+filebug

Thanks!

Regards,
David.

(*) You can use the "Also affects project" links and enter
'ubuntu-translations' in the text box shown in the prompt after that.


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Re: Unclear string in ubiquity-debconf

2010-08-25 Thread Geir Hauge 
2010/8/25 Daniel Nylander 
>
>
> "Please off me non-open-source software if it is needed for a better
> experience"
>

At first glance I'd say it's probably supposed to be "Please offer me ..."

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Unclear string in ubiquity-debconf

2010-08-25 Thread Daniel Nylander 

Can someone please help me understand the meaning of this string in
ubiquity-debconf? Typo or what?


"Please off me non-open-source software if it is needed for a better
experience"

https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/ubiquity/+pots/ubiquity-debconf/sv/211/+translate


Daniel


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Re: question regarding feedback of launchpad translation suggestions

2010-08-25 Thread Ask Hjorth Larsen 
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Oier Mees  wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> I know I am not the first one with this issue but I would like to know if
> anybody is working on providing some sort of feedback for people who do
> translation suggestions on Launchpad. Some sort of optional notification
> when the suggestion gets reviewed would be great because otherwise they can
> think that their suggestions are ignored and feel that they are wasting
> their time. Besides an option to inform them about what kind of mistakes
> they are making for instance would also be good, but I don't know how could
> this fit without introducing too much clutter in the UI.
> Regards,
> Oier Mees

This is also a function I have requested on a previous occasion
(hopefully people aren't too tired of listening to me - but I think
all of our translators would really like this), so I will take the
liberty of explaining exactly why I think this is so important.

In our group, when not using Launchpad, we normally translate by
sending po-files in e-mails.  A proofreader then goes through and
writes comments/corrections as appropriate, sending this back to the
translator.  The translator then makes the necessary changes and sends
the po-file to be committed.  This is straightforward and doesn't
require opening many programmes at once.

When using Launchpad, someone writes suggestions for a module and then
sends an email with a link, saying that 'this is to be reviewed'.  The
reviewer then looks through and accepts the strings, except where
something should be changed.  If something should be changed, the
reviewer will either write a new suggestion, or will simply
correct-and-accept the existing one.  In either case we need to
communicate to the translator what the *reasons* are for these
changes.  As it is impossible to annotate these suggestions/reviews in
Launchpad, we then have to write a separate e-mail and somehow link to
the strings to which the comments apply.  So you have to do a lot of
multitasking back and forth between e-mail programme and browser.

(Alternatively one could simply correct-and-accept strings without
communicating back to the translator, but we don't do that, because
then we would have no contributors.)

What we would like is a text field in which to write a message that
accompanies a string review (or a new suggestion).

(For what it's worth, I think this is slightly less important than
supporting the comment feature of gettext, which would enable comments
to individual strings.)

There's a bug about this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/25

Regards
Ask

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Re: question regarding feedback of launchpad translation suggestions

2010-08-25 Thread Tom Davies 
Ahah, i had completely misunderstood the original email in this thread.

I was under the impression that each team structured itself to suit the 
relevant 
culture and involved reviewers (or more experienced team members (experienced 
of 
working within that particular team)) offering to mentor people that contacted 
them or perhaps just to answer simple questions.  I thought it was likely that 
sometimes mentoring would be taken-on by some people while other tasks within 
the team was taken-up by other people.  In other words i think there are 
options 
but it might be worth joining the relevant team and/or asking a few members of 
the relevant team for feedback.  I guess the original email did that but asked 
the wider community at the same time.

All good, good luck and regards from
Tom :)





From: Danilo Šegan 
To: Oier Mees 
Cc: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Wed, 25 August, 2010 15:37:27
Subject: Re: question regarding feedback of launchpad translation suggestions

Hi Oier,

У уто, 24. 08 2010. у 18:09 +0200, Oier Mees пише:

> I know I am not the first one with this issue but I would like to know
> if anybody is working on providing some sort of feedback for people
> who do translation suggestions on Launchpad.

We've had such discussions in the past.  It would probably be useful to
look at the archives of this list.  I can't find the actual thread right
now, but I do remember people talking about the approaches they are
taking.

In general, people do it manually because Launchpad doesn't provide
anything else.  I.e. they copy-paste strings into emails and then
comment inline.  Launchpad has a bunch of bugs filed about making this
much easier, but not much has happened there because of lack of
development resources.

>  Some sort of optional notification when the suggestion gets reviewed
> would be great because otherwise they can think that their suggestions
> are ignored and feel that they are wasting their time. Besides an
> option to inform them about what kind of mistakes they are making for
> instance would also be good, but I don't know how could this fit
> without introducing too much clutter in the UI.

Yeah, making this all possible from within Launchpad would be best.  It
does take a lot of effort to implement properly.  Since Launchpad is
open-source, we'd also welcome any help in implementing by anyone who is
able to deal with some coding :)

Cheers,
Danilo




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Re: question regarding feedback of launchpad translation suggestions

2010-08-25 Thread Danilo Šegan 
Hi Oier,

У уто, 24. 08 2010. у 18:09 +0200, Oier Mees пише:

> I know I am not the first one with this issue but I would like to know
> if anybody is working on providing some sort of feedback for people
> who do translation suggestions on Launchpad.

We've had such discussions in the past.  It would probably be useful to
look at the archives of this list.  I can't find the actual thread right
now, but I do remember people talking about the approaches they are
taking.

In general, people do it manually because Launchpad doesn't provide
anything else.  I.e. they copy-paste strings into emails and then
comment inline.  Launchpad has a bunch of bugs filed about making this
much easier, but not much has happened there because of lack of
development resources.

>  Some sort of optional notification when the suggestion gets reviewed
> would be great because otherwise they can think that their suggestions
> are ignored and feel that they are wasting their time. Besides an
> option to inform them about what kind of mistakes they are making for
> instance would also be good, but I don't know how could this fit
> without introducing too much clutter in the UI.

Yeah, making this all possible from within Launchpad would be best.  It
does take a lot of effort to implement properly.  Since Launchpad is
open-source, we'd also welcome any help in implementing by anyone who is
able to deal with some coding :)

Cheers,
Danilo




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Re: question regarding feedback of launchpad translation suggestions

2010-08-25 Thread Danilo Šegan 
Hi Tom,

Your email doesn't sound directly related to what OP said (in my
reading, at least :), but since I am not sure what it refers to and it
sounds worrying regarding the Launchpad project, I'd respond to your
email directly.

У сре, 25. 08 2010. у 11:22 +, Tom Davies пише:

> I think this is part of a wider problem in Launchpad and one i have
> complained about to no avail on a few previous occasions.  Now that
> the Translators Team are becoming aware of the problem i have some
> hope of this getting resolved as you folks seems to be one of the more
> effective and "can do" teams.  It's really something that needs a dev
> working alongside someone who has a lot of tact and diplomacy skills 
> which are not necessarily skills vital to being a good dev.
> 
> When people write to Launchpad Answers or bug-squad it would be "good
> practice" (from a customer relations point of view) to send an
> automated response just to let the person know their
> question/bug-report has been received.

That kind-of happens.  When you file a bug, you get an email.  In
Launchpad team (so, for questions regarding Launchpad usage or Launchpad
bugs), we try very hard to keep the number of untriaged bugs at zero,
and the same thing for questions.  We do it daily (there's always
someone taking care of forwarding issues to appropriate places).

Since I am not sure where are you seeing many problems like this, if it
is indeed in Launchpad itself (i.e. launchpad.net/launchpad-project,
launchpad.net/rosetta, ...), I'd be happy to talk it over and see where
are we failing.  If it's not Launchpad-proper, then I probably can't
help much (your email kind of implies that you are talking about Ubuntu,
but wording makes me confused a bit with direct references to
Launchpad).

Also, AFAIK, Ubuntu has a bunch of triaging scripts which do many things
automatically.

> It seems that many devs hate auto-responses on principle but they are
> better equipped to deal with a total lack of response where many
> people contacting Launchpad may be completely new to OpenSource Forums
> and may just decide that Windows support is better.
> 
> Currently the only auto-response from Launchpad Janitor is a very rude
> note sent 15days later and the note says something like "We cannot be
> bothered to deal with your question.  Go away".  Which i feel is a
> little bit negative and has been written up in external, mainstrem
> press as a reason why some people try Ubuntu once and then go back to
> Windows.  I think if we have not been able to help with a question or
> bug-report then we should let that person know of other sites that
> they could try instead, such as 
> http://www.linuxquestions.org
> http://www.ubuntuforums.com

That might be a good idea.  Alternative is to switch off "answers"
application for Ubuntu and just direct people to eg. Ubuntu forums.

Do note that Ubuntu QA team is doing a great job making sure this
doesn't happen with bugs filed against Ubuntu.  But, "questions" is an
entirely different beast altogether.

Cheers,
Danilo




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Re: question regarding feedback of launchpad translation suggestions

2010-08-25 Thread Tom Davies 
Hi :)

I think this is part of a wider problem in Launchpad and one i have complained 
about to no avail on a few previous occasions.  Now that the Translators Team 
are becoming aware of the problem i have some hope of this getting resolved as 
you folks seems to be one of the more effective and "can do" teams.  It's 
really 
something that needs a dev working alongside someone who has a lot of tact and 
diplomacy skills which are not necessarily skills vital to being a good dev.

When people write to Launchpad Answers or bug-squad it would be "good practice" 
(from a customer relations point of view) to send an automated response just to 
let the person know their question/bug-report has been received.  It seems that 
many devs hate auto-responses on principle but they are better equipped to deal 
with a total lack of response where many people contacting Launchpad may be 
completely new to OpenSource Forums and may just decide that Windows support is 
better.

Currently the only auto-response from Launchpad Janitor is a very rude note 
sent 
15days later and the note says something like "We cannot be bothered to deal 
with your question.  Go away".  Which i feel is a little bit negative and has 
been written up in external, mainstrem press as a reason why some people try 
Ubuntu once and then go back to Windows.  I think if we have not been able to 
help with a question or bug-report then we should let that person know of other 
sites that they could try instead, such as 

http://www.linuxquestions.org
http://www.ubuntuforums.com

Many regards from
Tom :)







From: Oier Mees 
To: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Tue, 24 August, 2010 17:09:48
Subject: question regarding feedback of launchpad translation suggestions

Hello everybody,
I know I am not the first one with this issue but I would like to know if 
anybody is working on providing some sort of feedback for people who do 
translation suggestions on Launchpad. Some sort of optional notification when 
the suggestion gets reviewed would be great because otherwise they can think 
that their suggestions are ignored and feel that they are wasting their time. 
Besides an option to inform them about what kind of mistakes they are making 
for 
instance would also be good, but I don't know how could this fit without 
introducing too much clutter in the UI.
Regards,
Oier Mees



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translation software?

2010-08-25 Thread Tom Davies 
Hi :)

I work for a company that often needs very fast but not necessarily good 
quality 
translations.  Does anyone know of any decent translation software?  This would 
be for ".pdf" and ".doc" documents for the most part and may have pictures that 
the software would ideally be able to ignore but leave in the same position on 
the page.

Sadly it's not a company producing software so i don't know of any way it could 
be brought into Launchpad.  Also it often deals with confidential material 
where 
the less people that have access to the information the better.  Hmm, this 
sounds like the opposite of OpenSource but if you have a quick look at our 
website you might see that we are still good
http://www.cecf.co.uk/crisp.html


I am about to search through Synaptic but thought it worth throwing this 
question to the translators lists in case anyone uses something to get a good 
starting point for their own or to check or something they have used in the 
past 
but is not quite able to produce good enough quality for Ubuntu

Good luck and many regards from
Tom :)



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