Re: Translations meeting tomorrow
2009/8/12 David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com Hi translators, For tomorrow's meeting we've got two items deferred from previous ones: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2009-08-13: * Promoting and using the Ubuntu Translations project * Continued from previous meeting: * How to raise awareness of the purpose and usage of the project (to developers, bug triagers, bug reporters) * How to best integrate its usage to the bug triaging process * Disabling Hebrew CLI translations * Hebrew translators want to disable their translations (other RTL languages' translators have either said they don't want to or they haven't expressed any complaints) * We've got a preliminary list of apps at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHebrewTranslators/CLI * What options we've got for disabling them * How do we proceed Especially for the second point, will anyone from the Hebrew team be able to attend to discuss it? Can't make it at 15:00.. 13:00 or 14:00 is much better for me if it's possible. Eyal Not many people were able to make it to the last meeting, nor have been new topics added recently. Therefore, I'd like to ask you guys: would you prefer having the meetings at another time? Or less frequently (e.g. monthly)? The reason I picked up 15:00 UTC was because it was the time which worked best to have all the Launchpad Translations devs and Arne in there as well (we are all in different time zones), but if there is a better time that suits the community, I'd rather have the meetings at that time. So, let me know what you think. Would you like to have the meeting tomorrow as scheduled? Thanks! Regards, David. Note: remember you can always review the notes of the previous meetings here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings (either through the calendar or through the subpages listed underneath) -- David Planella Ubuntu Translations Coordinator david(dot)planella(at)ubuntu(dot)com www.ubuntu.com -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Degree of trust and quality for Ubuntu Localization Teams
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 15:47, Danilo Šegan dan...@canonical.com wrote: У уто, 14. 07 2009. у 11:42 +0200, David Planella пише: That said, it is easy enough to request a list to lists.ubuntu.com, lists.launchpad.net or use an existing... Just a note, we do not allow Ubuntu-related lists on launchpad.net: Ubuntu has a dedicated mailing list server, so they should all be on lists.ubuntu.com. Also, I think one important point for a translation coordinator is to be responsive, and to make sure unreviewed suggestions are kept at a minimum. Is there a way to check unreviewed suggestions for all templates and not just for a specific template? Eyal -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Status page for unreviews translations (was: Degree of trust and quality for Ubuntu Localization Teams)
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 18:06, Adi Roiban a...@roiban.ro wrote: În data de Ma, 14-07-2009 la 16:22 +0300, Adi Roiban a scris: În data de Ma, 14-07-2009 la 16:07 +0300, Eyal Levin a scris: [snip] Is there a way to check unreviewed suggestions for all templates and not just for a specific template? For the moment, no. I'm stupid :) You can check the status of all templates in Ubuntu by using this tables and look after Need review column: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+lang/ro Soon we should see global sorting feature in Launchpad tables, but meanwhile you can use the tables from here: http://l10n.ubuntu.tla.ro/jaunty-l10n-status/ Let me know if your language is not there. This is excellent! Thank you, Eyal -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Degree of trust and quality for Ubuntu Localization Teams
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 07:28, Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org wrote: On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 12:24:31AM +0300, Adi Roiban wrote: Hi, During the last UDS we have talked about various reasons why people blame Ubuntu translations. This is a long email, but I think that the raised issue is very important and it is fundamental for the way in which Ubuntu translations are perceived by users, developers and other/upstream translators. One of the cause is the due to the fact that for some languages everyone (whether he/she knows or not the language) can submit a translation and that translation will land directly in Ubuntu. They can also delete/modify translations coming from upstream projects. This can happen for Ubuntu Localization teams that use an open policy for membership, or for teams that does not check whether or not the new members are able to assure the translations quality. I would like to note that the main goal of Ubuntu Localization Teams is to assure that quality of translations. Everyone is free to suggest translations and suggesting translations for Ubuntu is not limited to member of those teams. This email was triggered by an incident occurred in the Ubuntu Slovenian Team where one of the team members was submitting approved translations for Slovenian but they were in fact Russian translations (using latin alphabet). From my point of view membership of Ubuntu localization teams should be moderated and before approve a new member, the team coordinators will have to take the requires measurement to make sure that person is aware of hes/her role in the team and the team's commitment to quality. We can also go further and follow the model used for LoCo teams and have approved and unapproved localization teams. And approves teams would be the one able to assure a minimal degree of quality. I know there are pros and cons for opening or moderating a team, but I think that all Ubuntu Localization teams should be moderated and have at least one active member willing to moderate new members, assure the translations quality, and be the spoke person for that language inside the Ubuntu community. Below is a list of team with open membership policy. I am aware that all translations are base on voluntary work and everyone is helping as best as he/she can. My intention is not to blame a person or a team, but I think that we should try not to ruin the work of other people. A bad translation could fail an application from starting, or it can confuse the user or lead to erroneous actions. The main questions: 1. What do you think? 2. Should we moderate membership for localization teams and implement some minimal quality checks or we should have open team without any quality assurance measures? I totally agree with this, we had this before in Arabic (the team was open) and we ended up with the worst Gnome translation, despite all incremental improvements upstream. We ended up (after passing team ownership to new one) with a moderated team, with only few members, and who is welling to contribute do so by suggesting translations and another team member will review and accept it. I'm all with having moderated teams by default, it doesn't make any sense to have open teams at all. From my experience, translation isn't an easy task, and well-intended but ill-informed volunteers usually get it all the way wrong, ranging from linguistic to technical mistakes. And some team owners don't even care about this, since, unlike many upstream teams, whoever applies for a team first get it without any attempt qualify him (compare with Gnome for example). Also in favour of moderated teams. In case nobody wants to be in charge of a translation team, a message on the translation team page with an invitation to step up might be in place. We should also consider brainstorming about the different approaches for accepting new translators. Perhaps a wiki page with a list of approaches and which one is accepted by which team. This could stay as suggestions or we might consider drafting a minimal requirement for all teams. Eyal -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: [Fwd: Re: Hebrew CLI translations]
2009/7/1 David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com Forwarding to the list, since it didn't seem to make it Eyal, I think at least gdebi should be removed from the list, since it is a GUI application. Ok, removed from list. Eyal -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Hebrew CLI translations
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 20:45, Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 07:18:16PM +0200, David Planella wrote: * In terms of disabling the use of CLI translations: we could consider disabling them at the package level as in Debian (removing the language code in the po/LINGUAS file for those packages which use it), or we could see if we can blacklist the imports/exports of those applications in Launchpad. I don't think that is a good idea, it should be left to translation team to decide whether or not translate such applications, there are several ways to display RTL in terminals (Acon, BiCon, Mlterm, Pterm, Konsole) for people who wont it, some one not wanting translation can easily set his locale to English (e.g. by adding 'export LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8' to his ~/.bashrc, which won't affect the GUI), but if we removed the translation completely then people who want it will not be able to get it. It is agreed that each translation team should choose it's own path regarding CLI translation process. For the Hebrew team the initial problem is that while we agreed on the desired solution, it couldn't be executed. We translated CLI templates in Launchpad into English but every new release our translations were overridden. This is why the bugs were opened in the first place. For the solution of adding 'export LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8' we concluded that it is not something we want new users to deal with in a fresh Ubuntu installation. Eyal -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Launchpad: Help for new translators
Hi, I think explanations about the HTML entities like amp; and XML tags found in translation strings are pretty important. Eyal. On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 20:31, Rubén Díaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Luckily, Launchpad has one easy interface for the accomplishment of the translations, so there is no much that to explain. So I think in this *very basic* scheme: - The obvious step: how to get an account, links to another article talking about, etc. - Information about Rosetta: not advanced but not short information. What Rosetta does? What gettext means? It's free? Can I use it? And important: the type of permissions. Next point... - Start translating: localize the project url in Launchpad, and check if the translation is being done by someone. As I mentioned before, we need to explain about permissions and check if the project allow us to provide free translation or we need something (join in a group, for example). Obviously, we need to say also that the user need to select the languages where he has knowledge. We remember him also the strings that need review are important. - Ways to stay in touch with the rest: mailing lists, IRC, etc. Okay, probably I forgot something but can be something for start the page. I hope this helps. Cheers, Rubén On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Matthew Revell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I work on the Launchpad team looking after communications. I want to add a page to the Launchpad help wiki (help.launchpad.net) that tells novice translators what they need to do in order to start translating in Launchpad. What information do you think is most important for new translators to know before they get started? I'm hoping this will make life easier both for translation teams and new translators. Cheers :) -- Matthew Revell - Launchpad.net - free software collaboration and project hosting -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- Rubén Díaz GPG id 2354DA5F http://diazr.com -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Ubuntu start page translation
Can someone tell me where is the translation interface for this page: http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/ I just saw the Hebrew translation and its awful. Also, the text is LTR when its supposed to be RTL (yet this is probably a bug issue). Thanks, Eyal -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Rosetta-Feedback - UDS Prague
I'm in agreement of all the points you have made. In Hebrew Translators Team we've also discussed some of those issues. The biggest problem as I see it is (and as you said) that there is no good translation resource for guidelines and FAQ. Also, there seems to be no way of knowing when new suggestions are submitted in Rosetta. And for two teams of suggestion and approval: we for example won't need suggestion team since we don't have much volunteers in general. Eyal On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Sebastian Heinlein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Arne, Jerome, Danilo and Ubuntu translators, at UDS Prague I had a short discussion with Arne and other translators about Rosetta and the general translation process. Here is a summary of the raised issues. 1. Policies As far as I know Canoncial wants to target a Wikipedia-like approach with Rosetta: Many people provide suggestions and correct each other with a kind of quality assurance through the translation team. This policy could be perhaps ok for translations with very few upstream translations, but it doesn't scale for the majority of the European languages. As western Ubuntu translators we only have to translate a small subset of packages, basically the ones written under the Ubuntu umbrella, and the documentation. Furthermore we have to spot for import errors and keep an eye on single missing or changed strings. What we want to avoid is a brain split between upstream and Ubuntu translations. For this task we only need a team of about 5 to 10 active translators, who are capable and interested in polishing. So the education of good translators is more important to us than getting a huge number of translated strings (of questionable quality). Furthermore it is also very time consuming to review and approve suggestions. I don't see a real speedup compared to writing them on my own. Especially since there is no way to provide feedback to the translators in Rosetta. If there is no contact outside of Rosetta I have to correct the same errors again and again. 2. Review instruments Although Rosetta provides some reviewing features there are still some issues. At first a changed and approved suggestion gets submitted under the approver's name and the original suggestion gets lost. This makes it impossible for the original submitter to see what was changed. Furthermore his or her credits get lost. I am not aware to which extend this is a bug. Furthermore high lightening the changes between suggestion and approval would make them more visible. Mostly there are wrong terms, typos or grammar issues. Secondly it would be nice to have a kind of comment field for changed suggestions. Currently I have to open up a chat window or write on a wiki page all the changes with comments to provide feedback to a new translator. This involves a lot of copy and paste work. 3. Quality assurance For the German team I would like to limit the persons who are allowed to make suggestions for out of two reasons: At first I would like to force them to get into contact us before working on the translation to help them to improve their quality, see above. Secondly most suggestions just get not approved since they have not been done systematically enough to send them to upstream. Personally I won't accept translations for non-Ubuntu projects if I don't know that the translator will cooperate with upstream. Currently many people just start to translate and in the end waste their time, since the output does not meet the standards. This is a pity. And I always have a bad feeling telling the people so. Therefor I would support splitting the team into two parts: a translator team who is allowed to only make suggestions and an approver or qa team. This issue has been discussed for ages now. I remember talking with Carlos about this on my first UDS Paris back in 2006. I don't want to enforce this structure for all teams, but I know of some teams who would welcome this more fine grained privilege system. 4. Upstream collaboration Are there any plans to support a version control system import/export like in the RedHat tool? Or to generally improve the system? What is the status on automatically importing from upstream version control system (GNOME, KDE)? 4. Import issues If you take a look at the German translations [1] you will notice a lot of packages with only one to ten changed terms in Launchpad. In many cases these are import errors, since the submitter and approver are registered automatically in Launchpad (e.g. Sascha Herres and Karl Eichwalder for the German gettext translation [1]). As far as I know the Finish team made a manual clean up of their translation. But to be honest this involves a lot of click-click work and I am not sure if I find anybody who is willing to do so for the German translation. 5. Resetting Would it be possible to reset the translations of one language? Mark proposed
Re: Templates in Terminal
On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:44 PM, Claude Paroz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Le samedi 31 mai 2008 à 20:48 +0300, Eyal Levin a écrit : On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Christian Robottom Reis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 12:52:31PM +0300, Eyal Levin wrote: Well, the problem is that we (Hebrew Translators) have Hebrew strings in the terminal, but we have decided that the contents of the terminal should remain in English since Hebrew does not display well there. Why doesn't it display well there? Isn't that more a bug of the terminal and/or font than in the translations? We have some BiDi problems, but as you said this is a bug and can be fixed. (Working fine though in mlterm [1] ). We decided to stay with English because there is no Hebrew documentation regarding the terminal, hence users who will try to look for help in forums, Google, etc, won't find anything. We also got some input from users who said that Hebrew in the terminal is the main reason why they don't use the Hebrew locale as a whole. This choice should be left to users. Those who prefer English messages in Terminal can always set this by inserting the following in their .bashrc file: export LANG=en_US or export LANG=C We discussed that also and came to the conclusion that this is an action that new users will probably not take or won't be aware of, and as a result turn to the English locale. Perhaps if you know a way we could set the Terminal default language to English in the Hebrew locale (with a new Ubuntu installation), this would probably be a better solution. Then, if someone would like Hebrew in the Terminal he could do the switch. It was also stated that currently we have more appealing applications to tunnel our translation energy towards. Eyal Remember, GNU/Linux is about choice :-) Claude -- www.2xlibre.net -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
