Re: Proposed string freeze exceptions
Whoops, forgot to copy the translators in - please reply to this email rather than my previous one. Apologies! On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Matthew East m...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi Dean, I'm copying in ubuntu-translators and Jono for their respective input on the various points below. On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Dean Sas d...@deansas.org wrote: Matthew East wrote: As usual right after string freeze our translators and other eagle-eyed bug reporters have picked up some errors in the documentation. Is there anything we can do to encourage people to look at the docs earlier? It's a good question. Here are some ideas but people should feel free to add others. 1. Since it's the translators who often pick up these items, we should encourage translators to start working on the docs well before the string freeze. The reality is that most of the work they need to do can be started earlier without the work being wasted. And as you say, the package is uploaded relatively regularly so the translations are normally up to date. Do translators think this is realistic? 2. We could set up an automatic ppa upload with a package that is always up to date. I don't know how to do this but I've seen that some other teams have done so. That would need to be coupled with invitations to testers... 3. For ubuntu-docs contributors, we should document how to set up a virtualbox with the development version so that people can test earlier. This page is ok, although a bit heavy on screenshots - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VirtualBox/FirstVM. There is a good guide here - http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/07/29/running-karmic-in-a-virtual-machine/ - but it is copyrighted. Jono, can we have your permission to take that article and put it in the help wiki under a cc-by-sa licence? 4. We could get the regular testing community involved in testing the docs so that testing documentation is a part of the regular testing regime - http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/ I think perhaps we should have made more noise on the planets a month or so ago to ask people to review the documents as it is getting close to string freeze. Agreed. Milo mentioned that he looked at the docs as part of the Global Jam. Is there a reason why the Jam is held when it is - after the archive is frozen/slushy and before the ubuntu+1 archive is open? No idea! Jono? -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Proposed string freeze exceptions
Hi, 2009/10/5 Matthew East m...@ubuntu.com: 1. Since it's the translators who often pick up these items, we should encourage translators to start working on the docs well before the string freeze. The reality is that most of the work they need to do can be started earlier without the work being wasted. And as you say, the package is uploaded relatively regularly so the translations are normally up to date. Do translators think this is realistic? Well... it depends... If we start translating something early in the process, we might do that work twice, since strings may change. In this case, if we really start translating early and we find an error in a string, file a bug+patch, we will end up re-translate again that very string, since for Launchpad it will be a new one and it won't have any suggestions (as long as things have not changed in Launchpad)... 2. We could set up an automatic ppa upload with a package that is always up to date. I don't know how to do this but I've seen that some other teams have done so. That would need to be coupled with invitations to testers... Even the HTML version of the docs could do if it's easier to set up... 4. We could get the regular testing community involved in testing the docs so that testing documentation is a part of the regular testing regime - http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/ Another (probably drastic) idea could be to have the string freeze one week earlier than it is now, and in that week do a strings review, maybe seeking help from translators too. I have to be honest, there are also other (minor) glitches in the docs that should really be taken care of, but that would mean that lot of strings will need to be changed. I'm referring to wrong use of terminology: there are a lot of press... when choose or click should be used instead. A review period would really be useful. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande m...@casagrande.name -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Proposed string freeze exceptions
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Milo Casagrande m...@casagrande.name wrote: 2009/10/5 Matthew East m...@ubuntu.com: Yes, that's true. But by way of compensation - you would have helped to find a bug and to have it fixed, and the re-translation of such strings would be necessary in any event! The majority of strings won't change, especially those which don't have bugs... Agree, but still, I think that doing it during/after string freeze is not right. I have always thought that translators are also the best reviewers around, but if we relay only on translators to do the review process, well, I think there is something wrong here. I would really be happy to help out with the review process, but not in this period. I speak for my team: we need to do review of others' translations, and it's a really time consuming activity due also to the fact that there is no really review interface in Launchpad, and translating docs is even harder than translating the UI since, at least for my language, you need to have the big picture in front of you and adapt the translation. There may be a misunderstanding here - we're not suggesting that the translators should be doing the reviewing after the string freeze. We're discussing how we can ensure that reviewing is done (whether by translators or otherwise) before the string freeze in future release cycles. The reason I picked on translators in this part of the email isn't because I want to overburden translators, it's just because we get a lot of high quality bug reports from translators immediately after string freeze, and I'd like to find a way to encourage that to happen earlier. I would say that this would be best implemented as a soft documentation freeze which we could implement on our own, without reference to the main release cycle timetable. So we could specify that major new documents or sections should be ready by UI Freeze, and then the remaining period should focus on updating existing documentation and fixing bugs. I would say for Beta Freeze, so that gives exactly 1 week for review, and this one will not be a string freeze, but more a new content freeze. Usually for beta you have almost everything in place and on beta release you will enter the real string freeze. I'm not sure that 1 week is enough for review though. I'd rather find a way to encourage translators to start working on translating the documentation quite a time (say three weeks) prior to string freeze on the basis that translators already have a lot of work to do in a short time, and if we can commit to having most documentation written earlier, subject to bug fixing, then hopefully that is enough to reassure the translators that they can save time by starting earlier. The reality is that most of our documentation doesn't change, and it is present in Launchpad very early in the release cycle. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Proposed string freeze exceptions
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Milo Casagrande m...@casagrande.name wrote: 2009/10/5 Matthew East m...@ubuntu.com: There may be a misunderstanding here - we're not suggesting that the translators should be doing the reviewing after the string freeze. No misunderstanding Matt, but looking at things now, looks like translators are doing the reviewers. And am not saying it is wrong, but that it is the wrong period. And the errors that are arising right now, the kind of errors, IMHO, should have been caught earlier Yep, I agree and that's exactly what we're trying to fix by this discussion. The reason I picked on translators in this part of the email isn't because I want to overburden translators, it's just because we get a lot of high quality bug reports from translators immediately after string freeze, and I'd like to find a way to encourage that to happen earlier. The only thing I'm thinking of, in order to have the maximum of two goals (update and correct documentation, and complete translations), is to try to enforce some kind of freeze on new content written and start a review process before entering string freeze. Yes, I think it's a good idea. I think that we basically agree! -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
