Re: Translating a rolling release
Thanks for starting this discussion! On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Redmar red...@ubuntu.com wrote: On the positive side, translation effort does not have to be condensed into a short window between UI Freeze an the TranslationsDeadline, which should give us all more time to complete translations. Also, if programs are updated more frequently, the amount of new strings in each release will also be smaller, which again makes translating easier. If updates are more frequent, this could also remove the need for langpack updates, which have been lacking of late anyway. I still think you will need a langpack, since translations should be shipped in that way. The problem is that we will need more frequent langpacks; langpacks that lately have been lacking. The main negative side is the risk of regressions in translation of programs. If the new version of a program is released before translators have had time to update all translations, users will be faced with a program that is suddenly only partly translated. Indeed, but in a rolling-release style we should, and ideally would, have more frequent langpacks and the possibility to update translations more often (also to fix typos and errors). The drawback I see is also on the perceived quality of the translations: shorter times mean less time to review and to catch errors. Translation teams might enter more a review mode with that process in place. This is a serious usability problem with the Dash and HUD, since these are text-based tools. For example, I'm currently running the Dutch beta of 13.04, and many of the search terms I use to start programs (Dash) or interact with program menus (HUD) do not work, since the translations are not completed yet. If we switch to a rolling release, each new version of a program has a chance of breaking the users workflow by removing localised terms the user relied on for the Dash or HUD. Clearly, this would not be acceptable. It is not acceptable if you consider each rolling-release to be rock-solid as a normal release, or as close to it. Personally, I do not, and if such a change will happen (also, it looks less likely), I will suggest to use LTSes, as they would be guaranteed to be the stable ones. Tools needed: There would have to be some way that translators get notified when the new version of a program is about to land. I'm guessing this is not a difficult thing to accomplish, and could be as simple as sending an automatic message to the ubuntu-translators list when a new version of a program enters the 'proposed' repository. We need to consider also documentation here: we ship documentation with the OS, and it is necessary to coordinate with the docs team as well. Luckily translations of the docs are now exported with the langpack, but that, if I'm not wrong, needs to be triggered manually (langpacks by default are not full, and should contain only application, not docs translations). We should have policies in place between devs/translators/writers, like Gnome has to request freeze breaks and such, policies that should be followed though. One of the problem I see is with upstream (Gnome, etc...) sync: how that will happen, how often? I didn't read all the rolling-discussion though, so maybe that has been addressed. Those are things that just pop out of my mind, if anything else comes out, I'll share it here. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande m...@ubuntu.com -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Translating a rolling release
Hello Translators, As some of you may be aware, there has been some talk in the community about changing ubuntu's well known six month release schedule, and switching to a rolling release model. This would mean that new versions of programs will arrive in ubuntu when they are deemed ready, rather than on a six month cycle. The LTS (Long Term Support) releases would continue to exist in their current form. You can read more about the proposal here [1]. Since switching to a rolling release will clearly have an impact on our work, so I was wondering how other translators feel about this proposed change. After we have discussed this, I will create summary of the points raised here, so that our position on this proposal is clear for the wider community. On the positive side, translation effort does not have to be condensed into a short window between UI Freeze an the TranslationsDeadline, which should give us all more time to complete translations. Also, if programs are updated more frequently, the amount of new strings in each release will also be smaller, which again makes translating easier. If updates are more frequent, this could also remove the need for langpack updates, which have been lacking of late anyway. The main negative side is the risk of regressions in translation of programs. If the new version of a program is released before translators have had time to update all translations, users will be faced with a program that is suddenly only partly translated. This is a serious usability problem with the Dash and HUD, since these are text-based tools. For example, I'm currently running the Dutch beta of 13.04, and many of the search terms I use to start programs (Dash) or interact with program menus (HUD) do not work, since the translations are not completed yet. If we switch to a rolling release, each new version of a program has a chance of breaking the users workflow by removing localised terms the user relied on for the Dash or HUD. Clearly, this would not be acceptable. Tools needed: There would have to be some way that translators get notified when the new version of a program is about to land. I'm guessing this is not a difficult thing to accomplish, and could be as simple as sending an automatic message to the ubuntu-translators list when a new version of a program enters the 'proposed' repository. Those are my thoughts on the subject, what do you think? Regards, Redmar -- Ubuntu Dutch Translators [1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Translating a rolling release
2013/3/16 Redmar red...@ubuntu.com Hello Translators, As some of you may be aware, there has been some talk in the community about changing ubuntu's well known six month release schedule, and switching to a rolling release model. This would mean that new versions of programs will arrive in ubuntu when they are deemed ready, rather than on a six month cycle. The LTS (Long Term Support) releases would continue to exist in their current form. You can read more about the proposal here [1]. Since switching to a rolling release will clearly have an impact on our work, so I was wondering how other translators feel about this proposed change. After we have discussed this, I will create summary of the points raised here, so that our position on this proposal is clear for the wider community. On the positive side, translation effort does not have to be condensed into a short window between UI Freeze an the TranslationsDeadline, which should give us all more time to complete translations. Also, if programs are updated more frequently, the amount of new strings in each release will also be smaller, which again makes translating easier. If updates are more frequent, this could also remove the need for langpack updates, which have been lacking of late anyway. The main negative side is the risk of regressions in translation of programs. If the new version of a program is released before translators have had time to update all translations, users will be faced with a program that is suddenly only partly translated. This is a serious usability problem with the Dash and HUD, since these are text-based tools. For example, I'm currently running the Dutch beta of 13.04, and many of the search terms I use to start programs (Dash) or interact with program menus (HUD) do not work, since the translations are not completed yet. If we switch to a rolling release, each new version of a program has a chance of breaking the users workflow by removing localised terms the user relied on for the Dash or HUD. Clearly, this would not be acceptable. I see the same thing. Many strings in Dash already translated in Launchpad but we have no langpacks. So UI is not completely translated and we can't check the correctnes. Maybe this is a bug? Tools needed: There would have to be some way that translators get notified when the new version of a program is about to land. I'm guessing this is not a difficult thing to accomplish, and could be as simple as sending an automatic message to the ubuntu-translators list when a new version of a program enters the 'proposed' repository. Those are my thoughts on the subject, what do you think? Regards, Redmar -- Ubuntu Dutch Translators [1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Translating a rolling release
Wouldnt this basically mean increasing the number of translation updates? On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Игорь Зубарев igor.zuba...@gmail.comwrote: 2013/3/16 Redmar red...@ubuntu.com Hello Translators, As some of you may be aware, there has been some talk in the community about changing ubuntu's well known six month release schedule, and switching to a rolling release model. This would mean that new versions of programs will arrive in ubuntu when they are deemed ready, rather than on a six month cycle. The LTS (Long Term Support) releases would continue to exist in their current form. You can read more about the proposal here [1]. Since switching to a rolling release will clearly have an impact on our work, so I was wondering how other translators feel about this proposed change. After we have discussed this, I will create summary of the points raised here, so that our position on this proposal is clear for the wider community. On the positive side, translation effort does not have to be condensed into a short window between UI Freeze an the TranslationsDeadline, which should give us all more time to complete translations. Also, if programs are updated more frequently, the amount of new strings in each release will also be smaller, which again makes translating easier. If updates are more frequent, this could also remove the need for langpack updates, which have been lacking of late anyway. The main negative side is the risk of regressions in translation of programs. If the new version of a program is released before translators have had time to update all translations, users will be faced with a program that is suddenly only partly translated. This is a serious usability problem with the Dash and HUD, since these are text-based tools. For example, I'm currently running the Dutch beta of 13.04, and many of the search terms I use to start programs (Dash) or interact with program menus (HUD) do not work, since the translations are not completed yet. If we switch to a rolling release, each new version of a program has a chance of breaking the users workflow by removing localised terms the user relied on for the Dash or HUD. Clearly, this would not be acceptable. I see the same thing. Many strings in Dash already translated in Launchpad but we have no langpacks. So UI is not completely translated and we can't check the correctnes. Maybe this is a bug? Tools needed: There would have to be some way that translators get notified when the new version of a program is about to land. I'm guessing this is not a difficult thing to accomplish, and could be as simple as sending an automatic message to the ubuntu-translators list when a new version of a program enters the 'proposed' repository. Those are my thoughts on the subject, what do you think? Regards, Redmar -- Ubuntu Dutch Translators [1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- Jonathan Aquilina -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
