Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On 7 April 2012 23:34, Avi Greenbury li...@avi.co wrote: Colin Law wrote: On 7 April 2012 17:10, Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote: Boot off the USB stick or CD/DVD and then follow the prompts. one of the options is to install side-by-side with your existing installation. Choose that, job done. If you choose that route does it give a choice on how much space to keep for the existing system? It is a long time since I tried it but I seem to remember then that it squashed my existing system down to the smallest it could and I later had to adjust the partitions sizes. Yeah. I don't think it prompts you per se but it picks roughly sensible defaults and lets you adjust them. How long ago did you last do it, I don't remember it ever doing that. It was a couple of years ago at least. My memory may not be entirely accurate. I think the problem was that I was installing Ubuntu alongside Windows in order to play try Ubuntu to see what it was all about. In that situation Windows continued to be my main OS and my disk was not overly large so I wanted the max available for Win with just enough for Ubuntu to run happily. I think I ended up with something like 40GB for my Win partition which meant it was almost full and the same for Ubuntu which was then virtually empty. What I really wanted was 70 for win an 10 fur Ubuntu. I don't know what algorithm it uses now, something like dividing it so that each system ends up with the same free space might be good. Another thing that I thought was not so good was that it did not tell me how it was going to partition it and ask me if that was ok so that I could back out and use the advanced settings instead. It just went ahead and did it. As I said, however, my memory may be failing me and the installer may have changed since then. Colin -- Avi -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- gplus.to/clanlaw -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
snip Boot off the USB stick or CD/DVD and then follow the prompts. one of the options is to install side-by-side with your existing installation. Choose that, job done. Other options will allow you to upgrade or overwrite. Don't choose those if you absolutely want dual boot. I started the installation process but the only options I was offered were to 'Erase', 'Upgrade' or 'Do something else'. Nowhere was the option to install side-by side. Now what? Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On 8 April 2012 10:45, Norman Silverstone nor...@littletank.org wrote: snip Boot off the USB stick or CD/DVD and then follow the prompts. one of the options is to install side-by-side with your existing installation. Choose that, job done. Other options will allow you to upgrade or overwrite. Don't choose those if you absolutely want dual boot. I started the installation process but the only options I was offered were to 'Erase', 'Upgrade' or 'Do something else'. Nowhere was the option to install side-by side. Now what? You are right, I am seeing that too. The side by side option seems not to be there. Do Something Else takes one to the manual setup page. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
snip You are right, I am seeing that too. The side by side option seems not to be there. Do Something Else takes one to the manual setup page. I would be quite happy to do a manual set up if I could be sure not to ruin everything else on the HD. Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On 8 April 2012 11:22, Norman Silverstone nor...@littletank.org wrote: snip You are right, I am seeing that too. The side by side option seems not to be there. Do Something Else takes one to the manual setup page. I would be quite happy to do a manual set up if I could be sure not to ruin everything else on the HD. Open a terminal (in your normal booted system) and type df Copy and paste the results here. In a terminal Ctrl+Shift+C copies to the paste buffer. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
snip You are right, I am seeing that too. The side by side option seems not to be there. Do Something Else takes one to the manual setup page. I would be quite happy to do a manual set up if I could be sure not to ruin everything else on the HD. Open a terminal (in your normal booted system) and type df Copy and paste the results here. In a terminal Ctrl+Shift+C copies to the paste buffer. Did that, here is the result. Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1147921176 54147020 86260156 39% / none 1018232 684 1017548 1% /dev none 1024860 260 1024600 1% /dev/shm none 1024860 100 1024760 1% /var/run none 1024860 0 1024860 0% /var/lock none 1024860 0 1024860 0% /lib/init/rw Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On 8 April 2012 11:43, Norman Silverstone nor...@littletank.org wrote: snip You are right, I am seeing that too. The side by side option seems not to be there. Do Something Else takes one to the manual setup page. I would be quite happy to do a manual set up if I could be sure not to ruin everything else on the HD. Open a terminal (in your normal booted system) and type df Copy and paste the results here. In a terminal Ctrl+Shift+C copies to the paste buffer. Did that, here is the result. Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 147921176 54147020 86260156 39% / none 1018232 684 1017548 1% /dev none 1024860 260 1024600 1% /dev/shm none 1024860 100 1024760 1% /var/run none 1024860 0 1024860 0% /var/lock none 1024860 0 1024860 0% /lib/init/rw Well at least that is nice and simple. If you boot into the installer and go into Something Else then you should see /dev/sda /dev/sda1 /dev/sda2 (it might be a different number) where sda2 has type Swap and sda1 is ext3 or ext4. It does not matter which. sda1 should show a size of 140GB or thereabouts with 85GB used. You first need to shrink this to make room for 12.04. First though make sure you have backed up everything important just in case. Click on sda1 and click Change. It will show the partition size as 14 (MB) or thereabouts. Reduce this by about 1 to allow 10GB for 12.04. So if it were 14 change it to 13. MOST IMPORTANTLY leave Use As set to do not use, and do NOT select Format. Click OK which will show a warning about writing it to disk and that you will not be able to undo it. Click Continue. Go and have a cup of coffee while it shrinks the partition. When it is finished you should a new entry marked as Free Space or 1MB. Select this one and click Add. Set the Mount Point to /, leave the rest at default and click OK It should now show the new partition as type ext4, mount point / and Format ticked. DOUBLE CHECK that the other partitions have nothing under Mount Point and are NOT ticked for formatting. Offer a quick prayer or sacrifice to any Deity you consider relevant and click Install Now. Colin Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- gplus.to/clanlaw -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
snip You are right, I am seeing that too. The side by side option seems not to be there. Do Something Else takes one to the manual setup page. I would be quite happy to do a manual set up if I could be sure not to ruin everything else on the HD. Open a terminal (in your normal booted system) and type df Copy and paste the results here. In a terminal Ctrl+Shift+C copies to the paste buffer. none 1024860 0 1024860 0% /lib/init/rw Well at least that is nice and simple. If you boot into the installer and go into Something Else then you should see /dev/sda /dev/sda1 /dev/sda2 (it might be a different number) where sda2 has type Swap and sda1 is ext3 or ext4. It does not matter which. sda1 should show a size of 140GB or thereabouts with 85GB used. You first need to shrink this to make room for 12.04. First though make sure you have backed up everything important just in case. Click on sda1 and click Change. It will show the partition size as 14 (MB) or thereabouts. Reduce this by about 1 to allow 10GB for 12.04. So if it were 14 change it to 13. MOST IMPORTANTLY leave Use As set to do not use, and do NOT select Format. Click OK which will show a warning about writing it to disk and that you will not be able to undo it. Click Continue. Go and have a cup of coffee while it shrinks the partition. When it is finished you should a new entry marked as Free Space or 1MB. Select this one and click Add. Set the Mount Point to /, leave the rest at default and click OK It should now show the new partition as type ext4, mount point / and Format ticked. DOUBLE CHECK that the other partitions have nothing under Mount Point and are NOT ticked for formatting. Offer a quick prayer or sacrifice to any Deity you consider relevant and click Install Now. Thanks, Colin that looks pretty straight forward. Just one question, where you say Set the Mount Point to /, is the ',' necessary or just punctuation? Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On 8 April 2012 12:55, Norman Silverstone nor...@littletank.org wrote: snip You are right, I am seeing that too. The side by side option seems not to be there. Do Something Else takes one to the manual setup page. I would be quite happy to do a manual set up if I could be sure not to ruin everything else on the HD. Open a terminal (in your normal booted system) and type df Copy and paste the results here. In a terminal Ctrl+Shift+C copies to the paste buffer. none 1024860 0 1024860 0% /lib/init/rw Well at least that is nice and simple. If you boot into the installer and go into Something Else then you should see /dev/sda /dev/sda1 /dev/sda2 (it might be a different number) where sda2 has type Swap and sda1 is ext3 or ext4. It does not matter which. sda1 should show a size of 140GB or thereabouts with 85GB used. You first need to shrink this to make room for 12.04. First though make sure you have backed up everything important just in case. Click on sda1 and click Change. It will show the partition size as 14 (MB) or thereabouts. Reduce this by about 1 to allow 10GB for 12.04. So if it were 14 change it to 13. MOST IMPORTANTLY leave Use As set to do not use, and do NOT select Format. Click OK which will show a warning about writing it to disk and that you will not be able to undo it. Click Continue. Go and have a cup of coffee while it shrinks the partition. When it is finished you should a new entry marked as Free Space or 1MB. Select this one and click Add. Set the Mount Point to /, leave the rest at default and click OK It should now show the new partition as type ext4, mount point / and Format ticked. DOUBLE CHECK that the other partitions have nothing under Mount Point and are NOT ticked for formatting. Offer a quick prayer or sacrifice to any Deity you consider relevant and click Install Now. Thanks, Colin that looks pretty straight forward. Just one question, where you say Set the Mount Point to /, is the ',' necessary or just punctuation? No comma, use the drop down list to select / from the options there. Colin Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- gplus.to/clanlaw -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
snip No comma, use the drop down list to select / from the options there. Thank you. Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On 8 April 2012 16:59, Norman Silverstone nor...@littletank.org wrote: Followed instructions and everything worked like a charm. Thanks goodness for that, I am always a bit nervous giving out advice like this in case it all goes wrong. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
snip I would like to make a couple of comments relating to my experience. The most time consuming part of the process is the downloading and installation of the system. I suppose, overall this took well over 2 hours. Perhaps, with super fast broadband and a super computer, neither of which I have, this time would be considerably reduced but, where I live, broadband is a joke. Eventually I settled down to do some tests and very soon encountered difficulties because I did not really understand how to carry out the required test. I am not thick but when I am asked, for example, to start gedit or nautilus using a set up with which I am not familiar I was lost and gave up. Maybe this testing is only for the Ubuntu literate and not for a simple user like me. I will have another look when I have recovered my equilibrium but I don't hold out much hope of being any use to the developers. Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On 08/04/12 17:21, Norman Silverstone wrote: I am not thick but when I am asked, for example, to start gedit or nautilus using a set up with which I am not familiar I was lost and gave up. Maybe this testing is only for the Ubuntu literate and not for a simple user like me. Norman well said! Unity testing folk (and Popey) please note. I was appalled at the level of knowledge that the tests required. The Unity testing program ought at least to tell you how to start gedit etc. And to use programs that are installed by default, which does NOT include Amarok that is (almost) specifically asked for by at least one of the tests. By the way, gedit is the default text editor and you can start it by clicking on 'Text Editor'. Where do you find that? Well, it's not too bad now I know my way around the latest Unity ... but I agree, it can be a bit daunting. However, if you type 'gedit' into the entry field that comes up when you click the top (Ubuntu) button on the launcher sidebar, you will get a match that you can click. The same would be true of Nautilus, but actually all you need to do is open the 'Files' (Home Folder) icon on the launcher sidebar. Oh, and a 'program that needs multiple windows' PLEASE some of us might understand this, but just get back to the drawing board. Unity testing folk - please use plain English for a change /rant Norman, please continue, and ask this list at every hurdle. It's worth it. If only to try the latest Unity lenses. Unity under 12.04 is awesome Regards,Barry. -- Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. http://ubuntuadverts.org/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On 08/04/12 18:10, Barry Drake wrote: On 08/04/12 17:21, Norman Silverstone wrote: I am not thick but when I am asked, for example, to start gedit or nautilus using a set up with which I am not familiar I was lost and gave up. Maybe this testing is only for the Ubuntu literate and not for a simple user like me. Norman well said! Unity testing folk (and Popey) please note. I was appalled at the level of knowledge that the tests required. The Unity testing program ought at least to tell you how to start gedit etc. And to use programs that are installed by default, which does NOT include Amarok that is (almost) specifically asked for by at least one of the tests. By the way, gedit is the default text editor and you can start it by clicking on 'Text Editor'. Where do you find that? Well, it's not too bad now I know my way around the latest Unity ... but I agree, it can be a bit daunting. However, if you type 'gedit' into the entry field that comes up when you click the top (Ubuntu) button on the launcher sidebar, you will get a match that you can click. The same would be true of Nautilus, but actually all you need to do is open the 'Files' (Home Folder) icon on the launcher sidebar. Oh, and a 'program that needs multiple windows' PLEASE some of us might understand this, but just get back to the drawing board. Unity testing folk - please use plain English for a change /rant Norman, please continue, and ask this list at every hurdle. It's worth it. If only to try the latest Unity lenses. Unity under 12.04 is awesome Regards, Barry. I have to admit, I tried to go through the testing, and got lost with some of the things they want you to do, so I gave up, and following this, if I had that problem with the partition, I dont think it would have been as simple for me to understand how to get around itbut I have to say, I am amazed at 12.04, I have been using it as my main OS, and have only come across a few things that caused a problem, and I have to admit, its got me liking Unity.which I didnt think I would, way to goI dont open too many windows, though I am having problems getting used to Gimp which I finding a bit confusing with the way the windows open, but if I dont have the main window maximised, I am ok.. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On 08/04/12 19:02, John wrote: I am having problems getting used to Gimp which I finding a bit confusing with the way the windows open, but if I dont have the main window maximised, I am ok.. I think we all ought to shout at the gimp folk. Gimp is an incredibly capable program, and it is also the least intuitive and least workable that I have ever seen! If the Gimp folk wanted to sell it for cash, there would be no chance! It seems to me that FOSS developers never talk to potential (non-geek) users. It's high time ordinary folk like us (folk who use and don't develop) got ourselves a voice. Regards,Barry. -- Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. http://ubuntuadverts.org/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
snip I think we all ought to shout at the gimp folk. Gimp is an incredibly capable program, and it is also the least intuitive and least workable that I have ever seen! If the Gimp folk wanted to sell it for cash, there would be no chance! It seems to me that FOSS developers never talk to potential (non-geek) users. It's high time ordinary folk like us (folk who use and don't develop) got ourselves a voice. Once upon a time ordinary folk did have a voice which was welcomed. I know because I was one of them. I was one of the first non-technical users of Ubuntu and was used as a bit of a guinea-pig by one of my sons who worked for Canonical. It was all very new to me and I found and filed bugs. But, as Canonical became more complex and diverse, so the sort of help which users like me could give appeared to be of less and less use to developers. This is not the place to have a rant so I'll go and play patience. Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Norman, On 08/04/12 17:21, Norman Silverstone wrote: Eventually I settled down to do some tests and very soon encountered difficulties because I did not really understand how to carry out the required test. I am not thick but when I am asked, for example, to start gedit or nautilus using a set up with which I am not familiar I was lost and gave up. Maybe this testing is only for the Ubuntu literate and not for a simple user like me. That's a shame. I'd be interested in knowing exactly which test it was and we can fix the text description pretty easily for future tests. I will have another look when I have recovered my equilibrium but I don't hold out much hope of being any use to the developers. Checkbox does have the option to skip this test which enables you to move onto a test which you understand or can perform. Cheers, - -- Alan Pope Engineering Manager Canonical - Product Strategy +44 (0) 7973 620 164 alan.p...@canonical.com http://ubuntu.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPgeVuAAoJEMx6UFtfvV4wHz4IAMWGo4OklG9OC7mOUhbErGQb 7Gu1ATq1TtzDA3aapBFRpk+SVYALQZ5WlyEaj9aqjkY00yh3mc2PwnZmdR4nYZxd b+eRbgPaLv1no2XczDP/Ix6U7i+HvgsO3FZmKIlvtksjkalqvgLfd9Ml1PHvr0/r VmcvH+UO4ZP/74JGBZkWg66OBhPpaOSO6j9Jn9vwSn5TQaCyDSU4V2ST/Ry+webn RHPNF7+ALzKtZTpjn6P+tISfCvogaI0xWA+sLAP55Z4if4DJ14ko6okB+IE+TDEU Vwz1eSH2USNL5Wt7lVKRPEDf1Dl4Ko4fsc6QsXtMDyhMkO+qJ1pGfZtQXSAaNz8= =iZ8k -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Barry, On 08/04/12 18:10, Barry Drake wrote: Norman well said! Unity testing folk (and Popey) please note. I was appalled at the level of knowledge that the tests required. The Unity testing program ought at least to tell you how to start gedit etc. Interesting feedback Barry. I certainly didn't expect this, but then I naïvely expected people on this list to have taken a look at 12.04 previously, and be familiar with the basics. Thanks for highlighting this. And to use programs that are installed by default, which does NOT include Amarok that is (almost) specifically asked for by at least one of the tests. Amarok is specifically asked for because it's a Qt app which has an indicator. I don't know of any application we ship which fulfils that criteria. If we didn't do that test then we'd have no way of knowing if Qt apps appear in the indicator area correctly. So that's the rationale for it being there. By the way, gedit is the default text editor and you can start it by clicking on 'Text Editor'. Where do you find that? Well, it's not too bad now I know my way around the latest Unity ... but I agree, it can be a bit daunting. There is some basic level of expertise required, I agree. However, if you type 'gedit' into the entry field that comes up when you click the top (Ubuntu) button on the launcher sidebar, you will get a match that you can click. That's called the Dash. The same would be true of Nautilus, but actually all you need to do is open the 'Files' (Home Folder) icon on the launcher sidebar. Oh, and a 'program that needs multiple windows' PLEASE some of us might understand this, but just get back to the drawing board. I think you might be over-thinking this test :) Surely you're familiar with the concept of a window on your desktop? Open nautilus and in the File menu there's New Window. Firefox also has a New Window option. That's what it's talking about. Applications which can have multiple windows on your screen. Unity testing folk - please use plain English for a change /rant Many of the tests were written by people for whom English is not their first language, indeed it may be their third or fourth. They are also developers writing tests predominantly for other experienced users and developers. So lets not be too harsh on them. The feedback is taken on board though and I'll pass it on. Norman, please continue, and ask this list at every hurdle. It's worth it. If only to try the latest Unity lenses. Unity under 12.04 is awesome We're collating this round of testing at 07:00 UTC on Monday but if you do find any bugs over the next few weeks, do please let us know. Cheers, - -- Alan Pope Engineering Manager Canonical - Product Strategy +44 (0) 7973 620 164 alan.p...@canonical.com http://ubuntu.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPgenUAAoJEMx6UFtfvV4w0G0H/RG+ukLmhS0zkMhH9pXCC3zW CmVVzpOGXKPqKS1sZMEPjJ3Zpw91heXuoj51YP0GnyXgLuS9ByMs/S8M2X5kdAJJ zSMRqCzOZN4D48ig6ccbDcphtL9AwyUCheRzJIurI5ThA4bb21Qtlpkn4yAlJBDx /Kgu+MRHXtz9ODuNvsfp/8HxWvJqHZ9+vsVm64YD7iD4cGALLCFLYfFw/kPWOssz KzL0cvlIxXZ/k7ua8a20hB+MHmeuVQ4/qf4ayoIkSZTkxEWLAFt4IC5E7DwwCP6D s60lFIvvUqUSioa8mW6LUxTiFjUtQW351ZzWYpzuAgQDBzEfq5uqjlOl9dCqDiQ= =poh3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Unity testing
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 20:03:54 +0100 Norman Silverstone nor...@littletank.org wrote: snip Once upon a time ordinary folk did have a voice which was welcomed. I know because I was one of them. I was one of the first non-technical users of Ubuntu and was used as a bit of a guinea-pig by one of my sons who worked for Canonical. It was all very new to me and I found and filed bugs. But, as Canonical became more complex and diverse, so the sort of help which users like me could give appeared to be of less and less use to developers. I don't think the help non-technical users can give is of any less use to the developers. It's just, as you said, things have become more complex, diverse, less personal and less obvious so people tend to give up reporting things or are unsure where to report them. I see no problem raising bugs against the tests on Launchpad. If the tests have problems and people ignore them then bugs are not going to be found. There's no point in making things frustrating for those that want to help. -- Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
