Re: [ubuntu-uk] IBM & Ubuntu - but what about Lotus?
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Rob Beard wrote: > Paul Roach wrote: >> It's an interesting development and perhaps brings Ubuntu one step >> closer to providing support for an application that can genuinely >> compete with MS Exchange (the sole reason why we still have an Active >> Directory environment here - as everything else for Windows clients >> can be delivered via Samba+LDAP). IMHO it's the one thing that's >> lacking for Ubuntu and Linux in general. A cost effective, functional >> and not exclusively web based groupware solution that functions for >> both Windows and Linux clients would then provide a complete migration >> path for corporates to an Open-Source environment. Unfortunately >> Exchange is, at the moment Microsoft's killer app and is too often >> dismissed as a simple mail server. The integration it provides with >> the other aspects and features (shared tasks, calendars, public >> folders, journaling, etc) mean that there's nothing out there at >> present that can touch it. >> >> Thanks for bringing this to attention Mac, and for the detailed >> response Alan. > Well there is Zimbra. I tried the Open Source edition and found it to > work quite well. After a bit of fiddling I worked out how to import > Exchange users to Zimbra (there is a Windows tool available) and it has > a nice web interface, mail, calenders etc. It can also be expanded with > the use of Zimlets (I liked the fact I could link it in with Google > Maps). It also has Windows and Linux clients, and I believe a Mac > client too (Zimbra Desktop). > > On the down side though the Open Source edition doesn't have plugins for > Outlook (I believe that only in the paid for version) and it isn't under > the GPL, I gather it's some sort of Yahoo licence which is more > restrictive. Not to mention the fact it's future appears to be somewhat > hanging on the balance (Yahoo may or may not sell it according to > articles I've read on the net). > > Rob > > > -- > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ > Has anyone else seen/used Opengoo? It is a Affero GPL V3 Web office suite. The online demo was very nice(Although it appears to have stopped working now. I only found out about it yesterday and was surprised it hasn't received more attention. I am not sure how it compares to other web officey type things, such as Zimbra. I was about to install Zimbra to run email, but Opengoo looks like it might be worth a try. Matt. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] IBM & Ubuntu - but what about Lotus?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 mac wrote: > I guess you may have seen this interesting development: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/20/ibm_canonical_ubuntu_lotus_us_package/ > > The mention of the Lotus suite made me wonder if any of us have tried > it, and could give an opinion. I've thought about trying it out, but > the reviews have been a bit off-putting. Lotus samart suite supports open document formats which is a big plus. > > Anyone got recent experiences of Lotus + Ubuntu to share? > > mac > > What we need when this gets of the ground is easy access to appropriate marketing materials, there is a 2x a4 size brochure thing for ubuntu server 8.04 i think, but its getting hold of it well ok its downloadable but then printed at home (on an a4 printer) it looks unprofessional. I have tried to print the discover ubuntu 6 page brochure off but it looks unprofessional single sided and on thin paper (sorry best I can do on low budget) fine for say friends, but for business / schools I don't think so. If we could get hold of such materials easily, we could really really push this take the scenario talk to someone about oss they say they need exchange with this development you can say that you will forward on some information, and forward a brochure with the above info (INCLUDING PRICES) it looks nice, professional and something the business community will take seriously. same would go for just general literature, I am not knocking what the community come up with, but MS don't have their users come up with marketing materials, they have a budget and people to do this, As IBM has a lot of money perhaps they could look in to this. I don't mind paying a few ££ in postage to get something that looks impressive, do that we may start moving forward from a geeks OS (see BBC post) to something where we are seen as serious. Add to this the need for training so people can do courses so they have the right skills for support is also important, I am in devon, would be nice to see some sort of investment in torbay at least for this sort of thing, proper training, for staff + technical people up to say LPI ubuntu, wit the ability to do the IBM stuff on top of it, LOCALLY, right now people think no one lives down this side of Bristol. Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Ubuntu 9.10 out 29th October 2009 - www.ubuntu.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkre2iIACgkQaggq1k2FJq2DWwCgknRJW7Fg/c/3Pl2VdnB/EA1p Rh0AnjCo/ggRhumQaTIUYImOXYUILdOD =0iQr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] IBM & Ubuntu - but what about Lotus?
Paul Roach wrote: > It's an interesting development and perhaps brings Ubuntu one step > closer to providing support for an application that can genuinely > compete with MS Exchange (the sole reason why we still have an Active > Directory environment here - as everything else for Windows clients > can be delivered via Samba+LDAP). IMHO it's the one thing that's > lacking for Ubuntu and Linux in general. A cost effective, functional > and not exclusively web based groupware solution that functions for > both Windows and Linux clients would then provide a complete migration > path for corporates to an Open-Source environment. Unfortunately > Exchange is, at the moment Microsoft's killer app and is too often > dismissed as a simple mail server. The integration it provides with > the other aspects and features (shared tasks, calendars, public > folders, journaling, etc) mean that there's nothing out there at > present that can touch it. > > Thanks for bringing this to attention Mac, and for the detailed > response Alan. Well there is Zimbra. I tried the Open Source edition and found it to work quite well. After a bit of fiddling I worked out how to import Exchange users to Zimbra (there is a Windows tool available) and it has a nice web interface, mail, calenders etc. It can also be expanded with the use of Zimlets (I liked the fact I could link it in with Google Maps). It also has Windows and Linux clients, and I believe a Mac client too (Zimbra Desktop). On the down side though the Open Source edition doesn't have plugins for Outlook (I believe that only in the paid for version) and it isn't under the GPL, I gather it's some sort of Yahoo licence which is more restrictive. Not to mention the fact it's future appears to be somewhat hanging on the balance (Yahoo may or may not sell it according to articles I've read on the net). Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] IBM & Ubuntu - but what about Lotus?
mac wrote: > Alan Bell wrote: > >> I have been working with Lotus Notes and Domino for 10+ years... >> > > > Wow! I could hardly have wished for a more comprehensive and > authoritative single reply, Alan. Thanks for taking the time and > trouble to give such a detailed and informed response. It sounds like > the bits I'd be interested in (essentially, the office suite) are the > least attractive parts, and the Notes application (which people who've > worked for PriceWaterhouseCooper tell me is used to impressive effect > there, in ways you allude to) is not something I have much need for. > > Many thanks! > > mac > > If you want an office suite in an Eclipse container that you can integrate with all your other stuff in Eclipse then Symphony is the one. If you just want an office suite then OOo is what you want. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] IBM & Ubuntu - but what about Lotus?
It's an interesting development and perhaps brings Ubuntu one step closer to providing support for an application that can genuinely compete with MS Exchange (the sole reason why we still have an Active Directory environment here - as everything else for Windows clients can be delivered via Samba+LDAP). IMHO it's the one thing that's lacking for Ubuntu and Linux in general. A cost effective, functional and not exclusively web based groupware solution that functions for both Windows and Linux clients would then provide a complete migration path for corporates to an Open-Source environment. Unfortunately Exchange is, at the moment Microsoft's killer app and is too often dismissed as a simple mail server. The integration it provides with the other aspects and features (shared tasks, calendars, public folders, journaling, etc) mean that there's nothing out there at present that can touch it. Thanks for bringing this to attention Mac, and for the detailed response Alan. On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:59 AM, mac wrote: > Alan Bell wrote: > > I have been working with Lotus Notes and Domino for 10+ years... > > > Wow! I could hardly have wished for a more comprehensive and > authoritative single reply, Alan. Thanks for taking the time and > trouble to give such a detailed and informed response. It sounds like > the bits I'd be interested in (essentially, the office suite) are the > least attractive parts, and the Notes application (which people who've > worked for PriceWaterhouseCooper tell me is used to impressive effect > there, in ways you allude to) is not something I have much need for. > > Many thanks! > > mac > > > > > -- > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] IBM & Ubuntu - but what about Lotus?
Alan Bell wrote: > I have been working with Lotus Notes and Domino for 10+ years... Wow! I could hardly have wished for a more comprehensive and authoritative single reply, Alan. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to give such a detailed and informed response. It sounds like the bits I'd be interested in (essentially, the office suite) are the least attractive parts, and the Notes application (which people who've worked for PriceWaterhouseCooper tell me is used to impressive effect there, in ways you allude to) is not something I have much need for. Many thanks! mac -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] IBM & Ubuntu - but what about Lotus?
I have been working with Lotus Notes and Domino for 10+ years. I had a server running Redhat and Domino 5, the first release that ran on Linux. The notes client was once a C application, with a basic core and a front end framework that ran on Windows, OS/2, and some Unix. It didn't fit the platform UI guidlines of any of them, but that was OK, because it was cross platform. Then they added Windows specific bits and dropped the other platforms. After a while they realised that Windows was not the only thing in the world and tried to get it running on the Mac and Linux, but it was all a bit too windows specific, it had also put on rather a lot of weight over the years. Rather than actually fix what they had, someone had the bright idea of stuffing the bits that did work inside Eclipse, a big fat Java based cross platform UI toolkit that IBM wrote in the first place and open-sourced. They decided to attack Microsoft Office too by taking a copy of OpenOffice.org 1.1.6 (a bit slow and fat) and stuffing that into Eclipse too. OOo was dual licensed, SISL and LGPL and IBM were depending on the permissiveness of the SISL to scoop it up, rewrite the UI and stuff it into a framework they call expediter and then into Eclipse. They have been unable to take a new branch from OOo because OOo went LGPL only from 1.1.6 and that would have forced them to LGPL the expeditor framework which they really didn't want to do. They say they will take a new code drop from OOo 3 but I am not sure how. In theory they could de-couple expeditor and OOo to such a degree that it would be considered linking like a library, at the moment it goes way beyond that loose coupling. So over the years it has had bits bolted on such that now the installer on Windows for the Notes Client with the Domino Designer(not released for Linux) and Domino Administrator(not released for Linux) and Symphony editors (the OOo bit) and Sametime (a single-protocol pidgin) weights in at an impressive 608MB Notes is quite a misunderstood application. People think it is an email client with a poor user interface. By most accounts the email bit doesn't suck as much as it used to, but for me it never was an email client. It is a document oriented non relational database. You can write applications that have forms that people fill in, then route to other people. The forms can be quite complex and the data from the documents that result in filling out a form can be displayed in views. These bits can be pulled together very fast into a coherent and useful multi-user distributed application. When you have a tool such as that it is trivial to knock up a little database for each person and allow them to fill out a form with to,cc,bcc, subject and body fields and then shuffle the resulting documents about between user databases. You can then call it email and it will work just fine, but won't be the best email system in the world. The really interesting core of Domino is the document oriented database engine. Damien Katz worked at Lotus for many years then left for a bit and decided to write a new database, based on some of the core concepts of Notes, but brought up to date and without the layers and layers of stuff piled on top of it. The result is CouchDB, which as luck would have it, is installed by default on every Karmic Koala. So by all means try out the IBM collaboration suite for Ubuntu, it lacks Domino Designer so you can't do any of the interesting stuff, but you can have a Notes client if you want. If you haven't used it before then I don't think you are going to like it much. For me the future of collaborative application development is Ubuntu, desktop CouchDB and python based user interfaces with replication to internal CouchDB instances and to Ubuntu ONE. Alan mac wrote: > I guess you may have seen this interesting development: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/20/ibm_canonical_ubuntu_lotus_us_package/ > > The mention of the Lotus suite made me wonder if any of us have tried > it, and could give an opinion. I've thought about trying it out, but > the reviews have been a bit off-putting. > > Anyone got recent experiences of Lotus + Ubuntu to share? > > mac > > > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] IBM & Ubuntu - but what about Lotus?
I guess you may have seen this interesting development: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/20/ibm_canonical_ubuntu_lotus_us_package/ The mention of the Lotus suite made me wonder if any of us have tried it, and could give an opinion. I've thought about trying it out, but the reviews have been a bit off-putting. Anyone got recent experiences of Lotus + Ubuntu to share? mac -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
