Re: [ubuntu-uk] OT: OOo bashing was Word 2002 under Wine?
Rob Beard wrote: > [snip] > > I just got the general impression that you were saying that Macs were > the the be all and end all, guess I read it wrong. You're lucky not to > have used Me, I had the annoying task of supporting it once, wasn't fun > at all :-( Apologies if that's the way I come across. I'm a big proponent of Ubuntu on both the server and "desktop" (an increasingly meaningless term in the face of fast rising laptop dominance and increasing numbers of netbooks appearing), but I caught the Mac bug again big style a couple of years ago and have found it hard to shake. You'll note I'm using Thunderbird to send mail (talking to a postfix/dovecot backend here at home), and I use Firefox and lots of other FLOSS apps on my Mac too ... macports is an especially useful piece of software since I don't have good old dpkg/apt on OS X :) > [snip] >> 2008 is about a gig here. I agree that for something you'd use to >> create a spreadsheet or type up a letter, that's insane. For reference, >> iWork '09 is 650 meg. > > Makes me wonder exactly what Microsoft have put in there. Maybe I'm > just a bit cynical, I remember when Word came on a couple of floppies > and did just as good a job. Probably magic UI stuff (newer versions of office on windows have that "awesome" ribbon thing, for example), templates galore, common library components, et cetera, et cetera ... -n -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] OT: OOo bashing was Word 2002 under Wine?
William Anderson wrote: > Rob Beard wrote: > >> Sean Miller wrote: >> >>> I concur... Openoffice is bloatware of the highest order. >>> >>> If I could be bothered to get an older version of Office working on >>> wine I would - but I don't use office suites enough to do so. >>> >>> It's a shame, really, that Sun decided to go down the bloated route, >>> because the early versions of Openoffice were really quite pleasant to >>> use; I dread to click on a ".doc" attachment in an e-mail because I >>> know the machine will whirr and click for ages before I actually get >>> to see it. >>> >>> Sean >>> >> >> I'd have to disagree on this one. I've just opened a spreadsheet (one >> of my invoices) in OpenOffice. I'm running my notebook in low power >> mode (1GHz) to save battery and it took 5 seconds from a cold start. >> I'd hardly say that is ages. There are tweaks that you can do to >> OpenOffice to speed it up such as altering the memory usage [1]. >> > > You really shouldn't have to tweak a productivity app in such a way to > make it usable, IMHO. Granted it took 12 seconds for Word to open up on > my Mac when I tried it there, but at least I know I'll enjoy using it :) > > Actually I haven't done the tweaks on my laptop. >> Now compare that to Office 2007 on one of my clients notebooks running >> Vista, it takes a good 30 or so seconds to start up. >> >> Not to mention, when did this become an OpenOffice bashing Mac loving >> mailing list? >> > > Did it? My main computer is a MacBook Pro, my media server is a Mac > mini, so I usually speak to my own personal experiences. However, all > my servers[1] run Ubuntu Server LTS, and in the past I've run a gamut of > desktop OSes including all versions of Windows (bar Me) and most recent > versions of Ubuntu. In all cases, I've rarely enjoyed using OOo, and I > shared Sean's dread when opening documents that wanted to use OOo due to > the grindage and carnage that would ensue. > > Note that I'm not saying everyone should use MS Office over OOo, just > that I have a personal preference, and I think that everyone should try > and use the best tool for the job within the bounds of their preferences. > > I just got the general impression that you were saying that Macs were the the be all and end all, guess I read it wrong. You're lucky not to have used Me, I had the annoying task of supporting it once, wasn't fun at all :-( >> I have got a Mac myself (albeit older iMac G3) and I have used Macs for >> many years (going back to the old 68k Macs on System 6) but I find >> sometimes doing things on a Mac can be just as annoying as doing stuff >> on Windows (or in some cases as doing things on Linux). I guess really >> > > Odd, I rarely find using my Macs annoying. I've spent more years > cursing at Windows than I ever have at OS X or [insert Linux distro here]. > > I dare say if I used my Mac more I probably wouldn't find it as annoying. I must admit I did find some features useful, but not enough to stray me away from Ubuntu full time. >> it's what you're used to. For instance I'm used to a lot of keyboard >> shortcuts and generally the shortcuts are the same on Windows and Ubuntu >> (for most applications), now going to a Mac I find that rather than >> using CTRL I have to use the Option key. Not a big thing really but I >> do find it annoying sometimes. I dare say it can be annoying for a Mac >> user to go to a Windows or Linux box and find that some things aren't >> Mac like. >> > > Indeed. > > >> With regards too William's comment about OpenOffice not being a native >> app. As far as I'm aware OpenOffice 3.1 IS a native app for OS X on >> Intel CPUs, and there is also NeoOffice (which IIRC is a native build of >> OpenOffice on both OS X Intel and OS X PPC). >> > > Sorry, my "natively" comment was referring to the UI, which has always > seemed to me to be more interested in appearing the same across all > platforms (which never works) than appearing attractive and highly > usable on each platform so that it plays to each's strengths. Just a > pet hate. > > Fair enough. >> With regards to MS Office 2008 being prettier than OpenOffice, remember >> this, the cheapest version of Office 2008 is the Home & Student version >> > > Yup, that's the version I have. > > >> which is about £70 (doing a quick google check), and how much is >> > > Yeah, I got the 3-user edition from amazon for a shade under 80 quid. > And for me, that was money well spent. YMMV, naturally. > > I do admit, if you're after MS Office then it is an attractive offer. I am hoping that they do the same with Windows 7 as my other half can't get on with Ubuntu (she can use it, just doesn't like it) so I'm looking at upgrading her laptop and PC to Windows 7 (although that might annoy her even more). >> OpenOffice? - FREE! >> > > Free to obtain, certainly, but the cost of someone's time t
Re: [ubuntu-uk] OT: OOo bashing was Word 2002 under Wine?
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Rob Beard wrote: > Not to mention, when did this become an OpenOffice bashing Mac loving > mailing list? I was merely expressing my experience. Openoffice takes ages to open for me on both Windows and Ubuntu - I find KOffice to be a better (and much quicker) option but it obviously doesn't have the same level of compatibility with Microsoft's products, which is essential if you're being sent documents created on Word/Excel etc. by others. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] OT: OOo bashing was Word 2002 under Wine?
Rob Beard wrote: > Sean Miller wrote: >> I concur... Openoffice is bloatware of the highest order. >> >> If I could be bothered to get an older version of Office working on >> wine I would - but I don't use office suites enough to do so. >> >> It's a shame, really, that Sun decided to go down the bloated route, >> because the early versions of Openoffice were really quite pleasant to >> use; I dread to click on a ".doc" attachment in an e-mail because I >> know the machine will whirr and click for ages before I actually get >> to see it. >> >> Sean > > I'd have to disagree on this one. I've just opened a spreadsheet (one > of my invoices) in OpenOffice. I'm running my notebook in low power > mode (1GHz) to save battery and it took 5 seconds from a cold start. > I'd hardly say that is ages. There are tweaks that you can do to > OpenOffice to speed it up such as altering the memory usage [1]. You really shouldn't have to tweak a productivity app in such a way to make it usable, IMHO. Granted it took 12 seconds for Word to open up on my Mac when I tried it there, but at least I know I'll enjoy using it :) > Now compare that to Office 2007 on one of my clients notebooks running > Vista, it takes a good 30 or so seconds to start up. > > Not to mention, when did this become an OpenOffice bashing Mac loving > mailing list? Did it? My main computer is a MacBook Pro, my media server is a Mac mini, so I usually speak to my own personal experiences. However, all my servers[1] run Ubuntu Server LTS, and in the past I've run a gamut of desktop OSes including all versions of Windows (bar Me) and most recent versions of Ubuntu. In all cases, I've rarely enjoyed using OOo, and I shared Sean's dread when opening documents that wanted to use OOo due to the grindage and carnage that would ensue. Note that I'm not saying everyone should use MS Office over OOo, just that I have a personal preference, and I think that everyone should try and use the best tool for the job within the bounds of their preferences. > I have got a Mac myself (albeit older iMac G3) and I have used Macs for > many years (going back to the old 68k Macs on System 6) but I find > sometimes doing things on a Mac can be just as annoying as doing stuff > on Windows (or in some cases as doing things on Linux). I guess really Odd, I rarely find using my Macs annoying. I've spent more years cursing at Windows than I ever have at OS X or [insert Linux distro here]. > it's what you're used to. For instance I'm used to a lot of keyboard > shortcuts and generally the shortcuts are the same on Windows and Ubuntu > (for most applications), now going to a Mac I find that rather than > using CTRL I have to use the Option key. Not a big thing really but I > do find it annoying sometimes. I dare say it can be annoying for a Mac > user to go to a Windows or Linux box and find that some things aren't > Mac like. Indeed. > With regards too William's comment about OpenOffice not being a native > app. As far as I'm aware OpenOffice 3.1 IS a native app for OS X on > Intel CPUs, and there is also NeoOffice (which IIRC is a native build of > OpenOffice on both OS X Intel and OS X PPC). Sorry, my "natively" comment was referring to the UI, which has always seemed to me to be more interested in appearing the same across all platforms (which never works) than appearing attractive and highly usable on each platform so that it plays to each's strengths. Just a pet hate. > With regards to MS Office 2008 being prettier than OpenOffice, remember > this, the cheapest version of Office 2008 is the Home & Student version Yup, that's the version I have. > which is about £70 (doing a quick google check), and how much is Yeah, I got the 3-user edition from amazon for a shade under 80 quid. And for me, that was money well spent. YMMV, naturally. > OpenOffice? - FREE! Free to obtain, certainly, but the cost of someone's time to figure out the differences or possible shortcomings of OOo against MS Office could be expensive. > There is nothing stopping anyone picking up the code for OpenOffice and > contributing to make it look better and work better and it's not as if This is another attitude within the FLOSS community that irks me :) Not everyone is a coder! > you get it shoved down your throat like you do with Office 2007 on a new > machine (I've lost count of the amount of Windows PCs I've seen with > Office 2007 trial preinstalled which can only be used about 20 times > before it disables itself and turns into a bloated Office viewer). "Shoved down your throat", right. See, this is what I'm talking about. Not your comment, but the practice of shoving things down people's throats when they didn't ask for them, such as recommending OOo when the OP wanted help with MS Office. Apologies to Mike if his comments were well-intentioned, which I have no doubt they were, but comments like "why aren't you using $FOO" when the questio
Re: [ubuntu-uk] OT: OOo bashing was Word 2002 under Wine?
You might be thinking about Go OO (www.http://go-oo.org/), which seems to work well on a couple of Windows boxes I use. In fact, I think that I can remember reading somewhere that Ubuntu uses the Go OO code rather than the standard OO code. > I havent had any problem with OO specially in Ubuntu, it seems to work > much better. There is a no frills version of OO somewhere, it is really > good too. You have to delete OO from your system to install it. I havent > seen it for a while, so I cant remember what the url is, but it is out > there. > > John. <>-- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] OT: OOo bashing was Word 2002 under Wine?
Rob Beard wrote: > Sean Miller wrote: > >> I concur... Openoffice is bloatware of the highest order. >> >> If I could be bothered to get an older version of Office working on >> wine I would - but I don't use office suites enough to do so. >> >> It's a shame, really, that Sun decided to go down the bloated route, >> because the early versions of Openoffice were really quite pleasant to >> use; I dread to click on a ".doc" attachment in an e-mail because I >> know the machine will whirr and click for ages before I actually get >> to see it. >> >> Sean >> >> >> > I'd have to disagree on this one. I've just opened a spreadsheet (one > of my invoices) in OpenOffice. I'm running my notebook in low power > mode (1GHz) to save battery and it took 5 seconds from a cold start. > I'd hardly say that is ages. There are tweaks that you can do to > OpenOffice to speed it up such as altering the memory usage [1]. > > Now compare that to Office 2007 on one of my clients notebooks running > Vista, it takes a good 30 or so seconds to start up. > > Not to mention, when did this become an OpenOffice bashing Mac loving > mailing list? > > I have got a Mac myself (albeit older iMac G3) and I have used Macs for > many years (going back to the old 68k Macs on System 6) but I find > sometimes doing things on a Mac can be just as annoying as doing stuff > on Windows (or in some cases as doing things on Linux). I guess really > it's what you're used to. For instance I'm used to a lot of keyboard > shortcuts and generally the shortcuts are the same on Windows and Ubuntu > (for most applications), now going to a Mac I find that rather than > using CTRL I have to use the Option key. Not a big thing really but I > do find it annoying sometimes. I dare say it can be annoying for a Mac > user to go to a Windows or Linux box and find that some things aren't > Mac like. > > With regards too William's comment about OpenOffice not being a native > app. As far as I'm aware OpenOffice 3.1 IS a native app for OS X on > Intel CPUs, and there is also NeoOffice (which IIRC is a native build of > OpenOffice on both OS X Intel and OS X PPC). > > With regards to MS Office 2008 being prettier than OpenOffice, remember > this, the cheapest version of Office 2008 is the Home & Student version > which is about £70 (doing a quick google check), and how much is > OpenOffice? - FREE! > > There is nothing stopping anyone picking up the code for OpenOffice and > contributing to make it look better and work better and it's not as if > you get it shoved down your throat like you do with Office 2007 on a new > machine (I've lost count of the amount of Windows PCs I've seen with > Office 2007 trial preinstalled which can only be used about 20 times > before it disables itself and turns into a bloated Office viewer). > > Don't get me started on the install sizes [2] (about 1.7GB for a full > install of Office 2007 and about 400MB for OpenOffice.org) > > Now I'll be the first to admit that OpenOffice isn't perfect but it is > enough for most people and works pretty well (apart from a couple of > niggly bugs, but you can report bugs and track them online) and compared > to the cost of Office 2007, you won't see me switching in a hurry. > > I'll reply to the original question in another e-mail. > > Rob > > [1] > http://www.zolved.com/synapse/view_content/28209/How_to_make_OpenOffice_run_faster_in_Ubuntu > [2] > http://www.oooninja.com/2008/05/openofficeorg-microsoft-office-moores.html > > > I havent had any problem with OO specially in Ubuntu, it seems to work much better. There is a no frills version of OO somewhere, it is really good too. You have to delete OO from your system to install it. I havent seen it for a while, so I cant remember what the url is, but it is out there. John. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] OT: OOo bashing was Word 2002 under Wine?
Sean Miller wrote: > I concur... Openoffice is bloatware of the highest order. > > If I could be bothered to get an older version of Office working on > wine I would - but I don't use office suites enough to do so. > > It's a shame, really, that Sun decided to go down the bloated route, > because the early versions of Openoffice were really quite pleasant to > use; I dread to click on a ".doc" attachment in an e-mail because I > know the machine will whirr and click for ages before I actually get > to see it. > > Sean > > I'd have to disagree on this one. I've just opened a spreadsheet (one of my invoices) in OpenOffice. I'm running my notebook in low power mode (1GHz) to save battery and it took 5 seconds from a cold start. I'd hardly say that is ages. There are tweaks that you can do to OpenOffice to speed it up such as altering the memory usage [1]. Now compare that to Office 2007 on one of my clients notebooks running Vista, it takes a good 30 or so seconds to start up. Not to mention, when did this become an OpenOffice bashing Mac loving mailing list? I have got a Mac myself (albeit older iMac G3) and I have used Macs for many years (going back to the old 68k Macs on System 6) but I find sometimes doing things on a Mac can be just as annoying as doing stuff on Windows (or in some cases as doing things on Linux). I guess really it's what you're used to. For instance I'm used to a lot of keyboard shortcuts and generally the shortcuts are the same on Windows and Ubuntu (for most applications), now going to a Mac I find that rather than using CTRL I have to use the Option key. Not a big thing really but I do find it annoying sometimes. I dare say it can be annoying for a Mac user to go to a Windows or Linux box and find that some things aren't Mac like. With regards too William's comment about OpenOffice not being a native app. As far as I'm aware OpenOffice 3.1 IS a native app for OS X on Intel CPUs, and there is also NeoOffice (which IIRC is a native build of OpenOffice on both OS X Intel and OS X PPC). With regards to MS Office 2008 being prettier than OpenOffice, remember this, the cheapest version of Office 2008 is the Home & Student version which is about £70 (doing a quick google check), and how much is OpenOffice? - FREE! There is nothing stopping anyone picking up the code for OpenOffice and contributing to make it look better and work better and it's not as if you get it shoved down your throat like you do with Office 2007 on a new machine (I've lost count of the amount of Windows PCs I've seen with Office 2007 trial preinstalled which can only be used about 20 times before it disables itself and turns into a bloated Office viewer). Don't get me started on the install sizes [2] (about 1.7GB for a full install of Office 2007 and about 400MB for OpenOffice.org) Now I'll be the first to admit that OpenOffice isn't perfect but it is enough for most people and works pretty well (apart from a couple of niggly bugs, but you can report bugs and track them online) and compared to the cost of Office 2007, you won't see me switching in a hurry. I'll reply to the original question in another e-mail. Rob [1] http://www.zolved.com/synapse/view_content/28209/How_to_make_OpenOffice_run_faster_in_Ubuntu [2] http://www.oooninja.com/2008/05/openofficeorg-microsoft-office-moores.html -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
