Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[gazz]

On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 18:08 +, Liam Proven wrote:


> >
> > Pick the most likely lol - voluntary and community sector, of course!
> 
> Oh. Right. OK.
> 
> It seemed marginally less random than the others, but even so, not
> really to make any sense - I mean, even charity workers watch videos
> sometimes, and listen to music in the office, no?
> 
> -- 
> Liam Proven 


Betcha can't find many charities with a clue what the other acronyms
even mean ;) 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Jacob Mansfield]

I thought it was Vickers Consume Sugar
Jacob Mansfield
Programmer
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Liam Proven]

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:19 PM, gazz  wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 15:09 +, Liam Proven wrote:
>
> Version Control System? That's what it means to me in a Linux context,
> but CVS is more common.
>
> Voluntary and Community Sector? Veritas Cluster Server? Video
> Communication Server? VOIP Connection Server? The Atari videogames
> console?
>
> Victoria Coach Station? Voluntary Carbon Standard?
>
> I honestly can't guess. I've tried. Google was no help, nor Wikipedia,
> whence I got a fair few of those TLAs:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCS
>
> Pick the most likely lol - voluntary and community sector, of course!

Oh. Right. OK.

It seemed marginally less random than the others, but even so, not
really to make any sense - I mean, even charity workers watch videos
sometimes, and listen to music in the office, no?

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[gazz]

On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 15:09 +, Liam Proven wrote:


> Version Control System? That's what it means to me in a Linux context,
> but CVS is more common.
> 
> Voluntary and Community Sector? Veritas Cluster Server? Video
> Communication Server? VOIP Connection Server? The Atari videogames
> console?
> 
> Victoria Coach Station? Voluntary Carbon Standard?
> 
> I honestly can't guess. I've tried. Google was no help, nor Wikipedia,
> whence I got a fair few of those TLAs:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCS
> 
> - 
> Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com
> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
> AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508
> 

Pick the most likely lol - voluntary and community sector, of course! 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Liam Proven]

On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Will Bickerstaff
 wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Liam Proven  wrote:
>>
>> I have no idea what "FruitLoops" is. AutoCAD I can believe would be
>> difficult, but then, the only way to open an AutoCAD file is to have a
>> copy of AutoCAD, isn't it? IOW, 99.99% of Windows PCs can't open
>> AutoCAD files anyway.
>>
> FruitLoops is a virtual studio.

Ah, right. But in general, is this a file format that is only openable
by the app that created it? There are lots of those, and in their
case, /no/ OS can open those files with an app that is included
out-of-the-box, can it?

> No you don't need AutoCAD to open AutoCAD files on windows, there are plenty
> of alternatives for windows users progeCAD
> Smart http://www.progesoft.com/en/smart-2009 DoubleCAD
> XT http://www.doublecad.com/Products/DoubleCADXTv3/tabid/1100/Default.aspx to
> name a couple are freely available for personal use and are pretty feature
> rich drafting apps. For viewing there are literally hundreds of free capable
> applications (AutoCADs own trueview is freely available). For linux I have
> yet to find anything freely available that can open a native AutoCAD dwg
> file and display it anything like correctly. AutoCAD is the sole reason I
> still have XP in a VM.

OK, fair enough. That's not good to hear. ISTR easily enough finding
something freeware to open DXGs for a client of mine (on Windows,
natch), years ago. I thought this would be true for Linux, too.

Do any of these freeware apps run acceptably under WINE?

> I agree, we need to be honest. Theres no point saying 100% compatible when
> it isn't. Obviusly don't make an ad that says Linux sucks for architects and
> studios. Just make noise about what it's good at. I think an ad just needs
> to make people aware of the OS and how to go find out if it will work for
> them. IMHO ad about free (for life), security (but don't say virus free),
> performance, and community - people are loving anything social at the
> moment.

Advertising means two things, I submit.

[1] Selling things to people who don't really care. In other words,
being pushy and in-your-face, because for the most part, if you
aren't, you won't sell.

[2] Going up against all the /other/ adverts out there, competing for
people's attention when they don't really want to give it to you.
Specifically, against other adverts for rival products.

The particular import of #2 here is that we're going up against MS,
and it lies all the time.

http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS5294337662.html

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-kills-its-get-the-facts-anti-linux-site/670

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10145332-16.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/09/09/ms_linux_obsession_time/

It is not lying to say that Linux is immune to viruses. If you want to
be more pedantic, say that it is immune to all /Windows/ viruses and
spyware, which is absolutely true, because out of the box, Ubuntu
can't run any Windows programs at all, nor document-based macro
viruses. Furthermore, exploits such as attacking flawed image decode
routines (e.g. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms06-026.mspx)
or that target Windows components (e.g.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/295534) are also completely
ineffective against Linux.

This stuff is *important*. It is one of the single biggest competitive
strengths of Linux over Windows, IMHO. We need to shout about it.

/Linux can't run Windows programs./ This is a weakness (there are far
more Windows apps, *vastly* more commercial ones, and in many cases,
they are of higher quality; there are also far more Windows drivers
and hardware-support tools) but it can also be a *strength* (all
Windows malware is ineffective against Linux, even Trojans and
social-engineering attacks such as popups that try to persuade people
to install things).

Ordinary users don't know what an "operating system" is, nor do they
know what a "document file" is or an "application program" or a
"dot-exe" or a "binary" or an "executable". But they do have a vague
idea what "apps" are, and "programs", we can tell them that they get
thousands for free, that they can read the stuff from their friends'
computers and their work computers, alter it and send it back and it
will still work. This is fair, honest and true. These are absolutely
key facts and we need to shout them from the rooftops, not um and ahh
and hedge around the subject with mealy-mouthed half-assed excuses
like "well, most files can be read, if you find a suitable program and
install it", or "we think it's mostly secure against most viruses, so
far, but it might not stay that way".

Any advertising containing arse-covering whimpers like that is
guaranteed to be useless crap. It won't sell anything to anyone.

Sorry for the direct language, but it had to be said.

-- 
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Te

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Liam Proven]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:05 PM, gazz  wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 12:34 +, danteash...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> It is a serious problem that in order to install such functionality, one
> must install the ubuntu-restricted-extras package and run the libdvdcss
> installation script. This problem is made less by activating the small
> amount of codecs that Canocial have licensed upon installation,
>
> Well, that's sort of why I tend to emphasise the 'social responsibility'
> aspects and provide as many channels to support as possible.
>
> Multimedia is less of an issue in the VCS of course,

Um. The what now?

Version Control System? That's what it means to me in a Linux context,
but CVS is more common.

Voluntary and Community Sector? Veritas Cluster Server? Video
Communication Server? VOIP Connection Server? The Atari videogames
console?

Victoria Coach Station? Voluntary Carbon Standard?

I honestly can't guess. I've tried. Google was no help, nor Wikipedia,
whence I got a fair few of those TLAs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCS

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[mahad]

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[gazz]

On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 22:14 +, alan c wrote:

> On 07/12/10 20:19, gazz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Wish I could - was intending to help out with the Wordpress site on
> > Friday but just got sandbagged with 2 meetings on Friday :(
> 
> Nice to be so much in demand!
> Maybe drop in sometimes to tell some stories about Ubuntu in the real 
> world?
> -- 
> alan cocks
> Ubuntu user
> 

It's nice to put faces to names when I can but Berkshire's a bit out of
my usual path  :) 
Maybe the Ubuntu crimbo 'do'? 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[alan c]

On 07/12/10 20:19, gazz wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 17:21 +, alan c wrote:
>
>>
>>  Neat. I do hope you are able to join the advertising team?
>>
>>  --
>>  alan cocks
>>  Ubuntu user
>>
>
> Wish I could - was intending to help out with the Wordpress site on
> Friday but just got sandbagged with 2 meetings on Friday :(

Nice to be so much in demand!
Maybe drop in sometimes to tell some stories about Ubuntu in the real 
world?
-- 
alan cocks
Ubuntu user

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[gazz]

On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 17:21 +, alan c wrote:


> 
> Neat. I do hope you are able to join the advertising team?
> 
> -- 
> alan cocks
> Ubuntu user
> 

Wish I could - was intending to help out with the Wordpress site on
Friday but just got sandbagged with 2 meetings on Friday :( 

Paula
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[alan c]

On 07/12/10 11:50, gazz wrote:
(snip)
> I've been doing hands-on FOSS advocacy in the voluntary sector for the
> best part of a decade and experience teaches me that it's a mistake to
> gloss over the real issues in migrating from any Windows OS to any Linux
> distro. What's important is to get across the concept of open standards
> and to help the user understand that it isn't Linux' 'weirdness' causing
> the issues but use of closed standards in proprietary software and to
> explain that once they have made a successful migration to Ubuntu, they
> will experience *fewer* issues with cross-compatibility in the future.
>
> For a proportion of Windows users, though, the barriers will honestly
> still be too high for their resources - at least for the time being.
> Especially users who rely on being able to open and edit proprietary
> apps send by Windows users. Although times change and organisations who
> once couldn't see their way to migrating are looking at it again in the
> current climate.
>
> When I'm advocating Ubuntu with voluntary orgs, I don't really refer to
> technical issues beyond giving them (what I consider to be) a sensible
> overview of real and imaginary migration issues - I focus, instead, on
> simplicity, resistance to slow-down and choking due to malware,
> community ownership (which really appeals), keeping the economy local,
> longevity of hardware, ease of installing peripherals, standardisation
> of software used for photos, scanning etc etc, ease of maintaining a
> properly-installed system for non-techies. And it's *pretty*!
>
> If you gloss over migration issues, you will forfeit trust when users do
> experience problems. I prefer to support people migrating with their
> eyes open and wait for the more nervous Windows users to go through the
> emotional and practical issues involved for them and their organisation
> in their own time. We'll be here when they're ready :)
>
> Paula

Neat. I do hope you are able to join the advertising team?

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Ubuntu user

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Avi Greenbury]

"danteash...@gmail.com" wrote:
> When I started using Ubuntu, I spent weeks trying to find out how to
> get Flash, DVD's and other such rubbish to run, because whilst F/OSS
> extremists/purists hate to admit it, we are still, sadly, reliant on
> such technology. 

This is a little like saying "because, whilst vegetarians hate to admit
it, we are still, sadly, reliant on meat".

Anybody who is a F/OSS extremist or purist will, surely, hold that
principle above being able to watch flash videos or listen to music
encoded in mp3.

Personally, I'm not really that reliant on it; probably most of the
reason I manage to avoid all this hassle installing proprietary drivers
and codecs is because the large majority of what I do either involves
free codecs and sensible software, or incredibly simple installers
(like flashplugin-nonfree). I don't, for example, know how to get DVD
video playing working under any Linux, because I've never really felt
the need to. And I'm really not a FOSS extremist or purist; I'm just
incredibly lazy.

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Avi.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[gazz]

On Tue, 2010-12-07 at 12:34 +, danteash...@gmail.com wrote:

> It is a serious problem that in order to install such functionality,
> one must install the ubuntu-restricted-extras package and run the
> libdvdcss installation script. This problem is made less by activating
> the small amount of codecs that Canocial have licensed upon
> installation,


Well, that's sort of why I tend to emphasise the 'social responsibility'
aspects and provide as many channels to support as possible.

Multimedia is less of an issue in the VCS of course, but it's easy when
you know how and I was able to track this info down in Google pretty
quickly when I migrated to Hoary (no restricted extras, installed all
the codecs one-by-one following someone's kindly instructions). Ubuntu
takes a little time to catch up with drivers and formats - mainly, I
suspect, because these aren't shared with them by manufacturers in a
timely fashion. I agree that mainstream users for whom multimedia and
gaming are central to their computer use may find Ubuntu frustrating but
there are many users for whom it's a minor activity around which they
can easily compromise. 

Paula

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[danteash...@gmail.com]

On 7 December 2010 11:50, gazz  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 21:48 +, Joe Metcalfe wrote:
>
>  The main difficulties I have had in reading MS files on Linux is with MS
> Publisher (though I don't have Publisher in my Windows copy of MS Office
> either!) and with macros in PowerPoint (dynamic content in 3rd part
> educational files).
>
> Joe
>
>  MS Publisher files can be sort of converted if you can spare half an hour
> of fiddling around per file and the result isn't marvellous; macros in any
> part of the MS Office suite don't open properly in OOo. MS Access is relied
> upon by much of the UK voluntary sector and it doesn't migrate. PaintShop
> files are a pain too and most Windows users have various proprietary Windows
> platform apps which don't migrate formats at all and don't run properly on
> WINE.
>
> However, I agree with the general point that most Windows users face bigger
> limitations on what proprietary formats they can open without buying every
> proprietary app on the planet (given that Linux at least favours open
> standards).
>
> It's probably about 80% perception but there's still maybe 20% real
> migration issues to be dealt with. Windows users are strenuously trained to
> think of their OS as 'standard' and anything else as weird and troublesome
> (although one might easily see this as an actual inversion of reality).
> However, whilst many proprietary Windows formats do open without any issues
> on many Linux distros, users will still run into migration problems with
> mainstream formats which either don't convert at all or which require
> significantly technically-savvy intervention to migrate to Linux. Even
> setting up WINE is pushing it for the average mainstream Windows user -
> although it's like rolling off a log for experienced Ubuntu users. Most orgs
> are also going to end up with a peripheral or two that's a brick on Ubuntu.
>
> I've been doing hands-on FOSS advocacy in the voluntary sector for the best
> part of a decade and experience teaches me that it's a mistake to gloss over
> the real issues in migrating from any Windows OS to any Linux distro. What's
> important is to get across the concept of open standards and to help the
> user understand that it isn't Linux' 'weirdness' causing the issues but use
> of closed standards in proprietary software and to explain that once they
> have made a successful migration to Ubuntu, they will experience *fewer*
> issues with cross-compatibility in the future.
>
> For a proportion of Windows users, though, the barriers will honestly still
> be too high for their resources - at least for the time being. Especially
> users who rely on being able to open and edit proprietary apps send by
> Windows users. Although times change and organisations who once couldn't see
> their way to migrating are looking at it again in the current climate.
>
> When I'm advocating Ubuntu with voluntary orgs, I don't really refer to
> technical issues beyond giving them (what I consider to be) a sensible
> overview of real and imaginary migration issues - I focus, instead, on
> simplicity, resistance to slow-down and choking due to malware, community
> ownership (which really appeals), keeping the economy local, longevity of
> hardware, ease of installing peripherals, standardisation of software used
> for photos, scanning etc etc, ease of maintaining a properly-installed
> system for non-techies. And it's *pretty*!
>
> If you gloss over migration issues, you will forfeit trust when users do
> experience problems. I prefer to support people migrating with their eyes
> open and wait for the more nervous Windows users to go through the emotional
> and practical issues involved for them and their organisation in their own
> time. We'll be here when they're ready [image: :)]
>
> Paula
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>
>
I agree entirely; despite the tremendous amount of work in Linux; there are
still many common problems with it: .pub files are very annoying, with the
only real F/OSS program that even *attempts* to do a similar set of tasks
not having an importer for such files.

It does not help, either, that OpenOffice has had so much trouble lately,
either; first the slow death of Sun Microsystems (which slowed development
to a crawl, and increased the problems between the community and the
'offical' engineers); the takeover of Sun by Oracle (more or less stopping
development whilst the project migrated) and Oracle's current tactics which
led to the now very quickly developed (but only just about to show itself)
LibreOffice.

Microsoft Office's new XML files are causing a great deal of difficulty, on
terms of engineering as well.

Then we have other issues; a very common complaint for me when I migrate
someone are the troubles with flash and DVD's and .mp3's. It is a serious
problem that in order to install such functionality, one must install the
ubuntu

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[gazz]

On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 21:48 +, Joe Metcalfe wrote:


> The main difficulties I have had in reading MS files on Linux is with MS
> Publisher (though I don't have Publisher in my Windows copy of MS Office
> either!) and with macros in PowerPoint (dynamic content in 3rd part
> educational files).
> 
> Joe

MS Publisher files can be sort of converted if you can spare half an
hour of fiddling around per file and the result isn't marvellous; macros
in any part of the MS Office suite don't open properly in OOo. MS Access
is relied upon by much of the UK voluntary sector and it doesn't
migrate. PaintShop files are a pain too and most Windows users have
various proprietary Windows platform apps which don't migrate formats at
all and don't run properly on WINE.  

However, I agree with the general point that most Windows users face
bigger limitations on what proprietary formats they can open without
buying every proprietary app on the planet (given that Linux at least
favours open standards). 

It's probably about 80% perception but there's still maybe 20% real
migration issues to be dealt with. Windows users are strenuously trained
to think of their OS as 'standard' and anything else as weird and
troublesome (although one might easily see this as an actual inversion
of reality). However, whilst many proprietary Windows formats do open
without any issues on many Linux distros, users will still run into
migration problems with mainstream formats which either don't convert at
all or which require significantly technically-savvy intervention to
migrate to Linux. Even setting up WINE is pushing it for the average
mainstream Windows user - although it's like rolling off a log for
experienced Ubuntu users. Most orgs are also going to end up with a
peripheral or two that's a brick on Ubuntu. 

I've been doing hands-on FOSS advocacy in the voluntary sector for the
best part of a decade and experience teaches me that it's a mistake to
gloss over the real issues in migrating from any Windows OS to any Linux
distro. What's important is to get across the concept of open standards
and to help the user understand that it isn't Linux' 'weirdness' causing
the issues but use of closed standards in proprietary software and to
explain that once they have made a successful migration to Ubuntu, they
will experience *fewer* issues with cross-compatibility in the future. 

For a proportion of Windows users, though, the barriers will honestly
still be too high for their resources - at least for the time being.
Especially users who rely on being able to open and edit proprietary
apps send by Windows users. Although times change and organisations who
once couldn't see their way to migrating are looking at it again in the
current climate. 

When I'm advocating Ubuntu with voluntary orgs, I don't really refer to
technical issues beyond giving them (what I consider to be) a sensible
overview of real and imaginary migration issues - I focus, instead, on
simplicity, resistance to slow-down and choking due to malware,
community ownership (which really appeals), keeping the economy local,
longevity of hardware, ease of installing peripherals, standardisation
of software used for photos, scanning etc etc, ease of maintaining a
properly-installed system for non-techies. And it's *pretty*! 

If you gloss over migration issues, you will forfeit trust when users do
experience problems. I prefer to support people migrating with their
eyes open and wait for the more nervous Windows users to go through the
emotional and practical issues involved for them and their organisation
in their own time. We'll be here when they're ready :) 

Paula
<>-- 
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https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Joe Metcalfe]

>> [1] As for reading and writing all MS files and anything from any Win 
>> or OSX program, for obvious complete incompatibility AutoCAD and 
>> FruitLoops come to mind. OOo/MSOffice compatibility is still nowhere 
>> near good enough for one to just replace the other.>
>
>I have no idea what "FruitLoops" is. AutoCAD I can believe would be
difficult, but then, the only way to open
>an AutoCAD file is to have a copy of AutoCAD, isn't it? IOW, 99.99% of
Windows PCs can't open AutoCAD files 
>anyway.

>I have in the past found ways to view the contents of plain .DXF files; I
would not be surprised if with some 
>ingenuity, this could be done on Linux.

The main difficulties I have had in reading MS files on Linux is with MS
Publisher (though I don't have Publisher in my Windows copy of MS Office
either!) and with macros in PowerPoint (dynamic content in 3rd part
educational files).

Joe


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Avi Greenbury]

Liam Proven wrote:
> I am aware of a number of worms and a handful - a tiny handful - of
> virus-like programs that have been demonstrated under lab conditions.
> Out in the wild? I'm not aware of a single instance of a live Linux
> virus propagating in the wild. If you are, do please share your
> knowledge.

For viruses in the traditional sense, I don't know of one operable on
any kernel anyone should be running in the wild. Certainly not new
enough to find themselves on an updated Ubuntu PC.
Perhaps, pedantically, your statement is correct. There's nothing
currently known as a 'virus' or as 'spyware' to which a Ubuntu desktop
is likely to be susceptible.
But to advertise imperviousness on the grounds that there's nothing yet
available, despite the obviousness of the possibility, just reeks of
the sort of marketing I dislike some of the larger commercial software
vendors for.
Especially given Ubuntu (and Linux in general) having such a reliance
on community support - the chances of a user inadvertently running some
malicious command that really doesn't look that bad is astoundingly
high. With no real benefit for whoever's doing the misinformation, that
only makes them the same flavour as the early viruses for any other
platform.

That said, this is something I've come across on Linux server
platforms. So common is the conception that Linux is impenetrable that
on having Wordpress or similar internet-facing-yet-holey software
compromised on a server, I've known customers suggest that this is
impossible on Linux.

> 
> I have no idea what "FruitLoops" is. AutoCAD I can believe would be
> difficult, but then, the only way to open an AutoCAD file is to have a
> copy of AutoCAD, isn't it? IOW, 99.99% of Windows PCs can't open
> AutoCAD files anyway.

FruitLoops is audio studio software for OSX. It was the first piece of
OSX software with its own proprietary format that came to mind.

You claimed that "it reads and writes ... anything from any Windows or
Mac program." which, in my mind, includes AutoCAD. And, well, any
Windows or Mac program. How about Call of Duty save files? The only
meaningful thing to open those in is Call of Duty itself, which doesn't
run under Linux (including Wine).

> I have in the past found ways to view the contents of plain .DXF
> files; I would not be surprised if with some ingenuity, this could be
> done on Linux.

In all honesty, I'd rather we advertise that we have reasonably good
file compatibility than assume that such 'ingenuity' is just part of
using Linux to open files.

> I feel that my statements are entirely reasonable and acceptable
> generalisations and I do not agree with your attempted rebuttals.

Perhaps they're mostly reasonable, but they're really not things I'd
support appearing in any advertising. Irrespective of the possiblity
of demonstrating them to be logically true, no 'normal' user is going
to believe them having attempted to actually exercise them. 

Like I say, I'd much rather have bulletproof honesty in the advertising
than sail that close to outright lying with 'features'.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Will Bickerstaff]

On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Liam Proven  wrote:
>
>
> I have no idea what "FruitLoops" is. AutoCAD I can believe would be
> difficult, but then, the only way to open an AutoCAD file is to have a
> copy of AutoCAD, isn't it? IOW, 99.99% of Windows PCs can't open
> AutoCAD files anyway.
>
> FruitLoops is a virtual studio.

No you don't need AutoCAD to open AutoCAD files on windows, there are plenty
of alternatives for windows users progeCAD Smart
http://www.progesoft.com/en/smart-2009 DoubleCAD XT
http://www.doublecad.com/Products/DoubleCADXTv3/tabid/1100/Default.aspx to
name a couple are freely available for personal use and are pretty feature
rich drafting apps. For viewing there are literally hundreds of free capable
applications (AutoCADs own trueview is freely available). For linux I have
yet to find anything freely available that can open a native AutoCAD dwg
file and display it anything like correctly. AutoCAD is the sole reason I
still have XP in a VM.

I agree, we need to be honest. Theres no point saying 100% compatible when
it isn't. Obviusly don't make an ad that says Linux sucks for architects and
studios. Just make noise about what it's good at. I think an ad just needs
to make people aware of the OS and how to go find out if it will work for
them. IMHO ad about free (for life), security (but don't say virus free),
performance, and community - people are loving anything social at the
moment.
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Liam Proven]

On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Avi Greenbury
 wrote:
> Liam Proven wrote:
>
> Attempting to recreate the sort of tone of your email

Works for me.
>
>> [1] it's immune to all viruses and spyware
>> [5] it reads and writes all Microsoft files and anything from any
>> Windows or Mac program.
>
> If you're going to be picky and pedantic, at least be correct. These
> two are patently incorrect[0],[1]. Claiming otherwise to anyone to whom
> those are important traits will only dissapoint them when it turns out
> that Linux/Ubuntu/whatever isn't the utopian OS they were sold it as.
> One thing I'd really like us to advertise on is honesty - the openness
> of bug reporting and the like, for example - and lying to get people to
> use the OS doesn't sit particularly well with that.
>
>
> [0] - Viruses for Linux/Unix abound. Go google. Sure, the OS is
> relatively safe from them but most users care more about their own files
> than their OS, and they've full write privileges to that. And all
> tutorials now appear to start with 'sudo' in any case. Making people
> believe that there are no viruses just means they'll think even less
> before copying and pasting stuff into xterm.

I am aware of a number of worms and a handful - a tiny handful - of
virus-like programs that have been demonstrated under lab conditions.
Out in the wild? I'm not aware of a single instance of a live Linux
virus propagating in the wild. If you are, do please share your
knowledge.

> [1] As for reading and writing all MS files and anything from any Win
> or OSX program, for obvious complete incompatibility AutoCAD and
> FruitLoops come to mind. OOo/MSOffice compatibility is still nowhere
> near good enough for one to just replace the other.

I have no idea what "FruitLoops" is. AutoCAD I can believe would be
difficult, but then, the only way to open an AutoCAD file is to have a
copy of AutoCAD, isn't it? IOW, 99.99% of Windows PCs can't open
AutoCAD files anyway.

I have in the past found ways to view the contents of plain .DXF
files; I would not be surprised if with some ingenuity, this could be
done on Linux.

I feel that my statements are entirely reasonable and acceptable
generalisations and I do not agree with your attempted rebuttals.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Avi Greenbury]

Liam Proven wrote:

Attempting to recreate the sort of tone of your email

> [1] it's immune to all viruses and spyware
> [5] it reads and writes all Microsoft files and anything from any
> Windows or Mac program.

If you're going to be picky and pedantic, at least be correct. These
two are patently incorrect[0],[1]. Claiming otherwise to anyone to whom
those are important traits will only dissapoint them when it turns out
that Linux/Ubuntu/whatever isn't the utopian OS they were sold it as.
One thing I'd really like us to advertise on is honesty - the openness
of bug reporting and the like, for example - and lying to get people to
use the OS doesn't sit particularly well with that.


[0] - Viruses for Linux/Unix abound. Go google. Sure, the OS is
relatively safe from them but most users care more about their own files
than their OS, and they've full write privileges to that. And all
tutorials now appear to start with 'sudo' in any case. Making people
believe that there are no viruses just means they'll think even less
before copying and pasting stuff into xterm.

[1] As for reading and writing all MS files and anything from any Win
or OSX program, for obvious complete incompatibility AutoCAD and
FruitLoops come to mind. OOo/MSOffice compatibility is still nowhere
near good enough for one to just replace the other.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Tim Dobson]

On 03/12/10 18:50, danteash...@gmail.com wrote:
> We are creating advert(s) for Ubuntu, for a non-technical audience.

Yo-buntu!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOHAUvbuV4o&feature=youtu.be

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Barry Drake]

On Sat, 2010-12-04 at 22:48 +, danteash...@gmail.com wrote:
> Barry: Hmmm...technician, yes? That could be useful indeedoh, and
> the team is here, if you want to join up: 

Been there   done that .
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[danteash...@gmail.com]

Vinothan Shankar: Of course you can be useful! We need everyone! :D

Barry: Hmmm...technician, yes? That could be useful indeedoh, and the
team is here, if you want to join up:

https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-advertising

-Dante



On 4 December 2010 22:08, Vinothan Shankar  wrote:

> On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 18:50 +, danteash...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hello all!
> >
> > I'm Dante, Project Leader of the Ubuntu Advert Team, and WE need YOU!
> >
> > We are creating advert(s) for Ubuntu, for a non-technical audience.
> > These adverts will be on the radio, at cinemas and (when we get enough
> > funding together) on the TV. We need literally everyone, from graphics
> > artists to actors to animators to writers and translators. This
> > material will be also be given to the LoCo teams. We are acquiring
> > studio access in Gloucester (Gloucestershire College) and our work
> > will also find it's way onto the Ubuntu homepage. I don't think I need
> > to stress that this is very important; this is Ubuntu making itself
> > known to the public for the first time.
> >
> > Please, help us make it great. Join us if you can/want to help. Spread
> > the word!
> >
> >
> > http://ubuntuadverts.org/
> > https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-advertising
>
> Hi.
> I joined the team the day before yesterday, but I think I'll chip in
> here, too.  Of the things you've listed, the only one I'm any good at is
> acting, but hopefully I can still be useful.
>
> Vinothan Shankar
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>
>


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Vinothan Shankar]

On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 18:50 +, danteash...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello all!
> 
> I'm Dante, Project Leader of the Ubuntu Advert Team, and WE need YOU!
> 
> We are creating advert(s) for Ubuntu, for a non-technical audience.
> These adverts will be on the radio, at cinemas and (when we get enough
> funding together) on the TV. We need literally everyone, from graphics
> artists to actors to animators to writers and translators. This
> material will be also be given to the LoCo teams. We are acquiring
> studio access in Gloucester (Gloucestershire College) and our work
> will also find it's way onto the Ubuntu homepage. I don't think I need
> to stress that this is very important; this is Ubuntu making itself
> known to the public for the first time.
> 
> Please, help us make it great. Join us if you can/want to help. Spread
> the word! 
> 
> 
> http://ubuntuadverts.org/
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-advertising

Hi.
I joined the team the day before yesterday, but I think I'll chip in
here, too.  Of the things you've listed, the only one I'm any good at is
acting, but hopefully I can still be useful.

Vinothan Shankar


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Mary Mooney]

I am not a designer programmer or media person - I just use Ubuntu - because

 once you get your desktop you are ready to roll
 it has an office programme, compatible with other wordprocessing and
spreadsheet programmes
 it plays my music and dvds
 I can watch BBC on the Internet
 when I have a problem, a Google search more often than not locates the
solution - or I can go to the Community.

So out of the two first drafts I prefer the second one.

There you have it, my six-pennyworth.

Mary


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On 4 December 2010 17:43, Grant Sewell  wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:33:10 +
> Bill Cumming wrote:
>
> > Think its best to keep it simple, at first at least
> >
> > I'm thinking of a tag line like
> > "Get things done... Simply"
> >
> > Use it to emphasise how easy it is to start, get work done,
> > entertainment etc...
>
> I like the tag line, but I'm not sure about the idea of emphasising the
> "it's easy to use for entertainment purposes".  If you promote *that*
> idea, people will expect DRMed and other types of encumbered media to
> "just work"... which it doesn't.
>
> Grant.
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Bill Cumming]

To be honest it was an off the top of my head idea..
On 4 Dec 2010 17:43, "Grant Sewell"  wrote:
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Grant Sewell]

On Sat, 4 Dec 2010 16:33:10 +
Bill Cumming wrote:

> Think its best to keep it simple, at first at least
> 
> I'm thinking of a tag line like
> "Get things done... Simply"
> 
> Use it to emphasise how easy it is to start, get work done,
> entertainment etc...

I like the tag line, but I'm not sure about the idea of emphasising the
"it's easy to use for entertainment purposes".  If you promote *that*
idea, people will expect DRMed and other types of encumbered media to
"just work"... which it doesn't.

Grant.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Jacob Mansfield]

unlike other people I am a 'media person', so let me know how I can help
Jacob Mansfield
Programmer



On 4 December 2010 16:33, Bill Cumming  wrote:

> Think its best to keep it simple, at first at least
>
> I'm thinking of a tag line like
> "Get things done... Simply"
>
> Use it to emphasise how easy it is to start, get work done, entertainment
> etc...
>   On 4 Dec 2010 16:26, "Roy Jamison"  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have made 2 "adverts" for personal/humorous purposes.
> > One is a simple sound mix/edit of the Apple "childish" music used in
> > their ads overlaid on the video in the Examples folder (I think it works
> > quite well).
> > The other is a parody of Harry Hill's TV Burp illustrating (possibly)
> > some Linux users' views on Windows 7.
> > I realise that this isn't *anywhere* near what we are or should be
> > looking for, but if anyone wants to take a look and have a laugh,
> > perhaps get some ideas or anything, please feel free to do so.
> > I am not a designer or professional editor or anything (you'll probably
> > be able to tell!), but I hope that it gives something to the community,
> > i.e. some ideas, a bit of fun, etc. It's not self promotion because to
> > be quite frank, the videos are pretty rubbish, but still, if it helps,
> > great!
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGO18iUpgvQ
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbkzXiLTk7o
> >
> > If I can contribute in any way I'd like to help, and will definitely
> > splurge it over Twitter and Facebook when it is produced.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Roy Jamison (xteejx)
> > Ubuntu Bug Squad
> > Ubuntu Bug Control
> > www.ubuntu.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Bill Cumming]

Think its best to keep it simple, at first at least

I'm thinking of a tag line like
"Get things done... Simply"

Use it to emphasise how easy it is to start, get work done, entertainment
etc...
On 4 Dec 2010 16:26, "Roy Jamison"  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have made 2 "adverts" for personal/humorous purposes.
> One is a simple sound mix/edit of the Apple "childish" music used in
> their ads overlaid on the video in the Examples folder (I think it works
> quite well).
> The other is a parody of Harry Hill's TV Burp illustrating (possibly)
> some Linux users' views on Windows 7.
> I realise that this isn't *anywhere* near what we are or should be
> looking for, but if anyone wants to take a look and have a laugh,
> perhaps get some ideas or anything, please feel free to do so.
> I am not a designer or professional editor or anything (you'll probably
> be able to tell!), but I hope that it gives something to the community,
> i.e. some ideas, a bit of fun, etc. It's not self promotion because to
> be quite frank, the videos are pretty rubbish, but still, if it helps,
> great!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGO18iUpgvQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbkzXiLTk7o
>
> If I can contribute in any way I'd like to help, and will definitely
> splurge it over Twitter and Facebook when it is produced.
>
> --
>
> Roy Jamison (xteejx)
> Ubuntu Bug Squad
> Ubuntu Bug Control
> www.ubuntu.com
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Roy Jamison]

Hi all,

I have made 2 "adverts" for personal/humorous purposes. 
One is a simple sound mix/edit of the Apple "childish" music used in
their ads overlaid on the video in the Examples folder (I think it works
quite well).
The other is a parody of Harry Hill's TV Burp illustrating (possibly)
some Linux users' views on Windows 7.
I realise that this isn't *anywhere* near what we are or should be
looking for, but if anyone wants to take a look and have a laugh,
perhaps get some ideas or anything, please feel free to do so.
I am not a designer or professional editor or anything (you'll probably
be able to tell!), but I hope that it gives something to the community,
i.e. some ideas, a bit of fun, etc. It's not self promotion because to
be quite frank, the videos are pretty rubbish, but still, if it helps,
great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGO18iUpgvQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbkzXiLTk7o

If I can contribute in any way I'd like to help, and will definitely
splurge it over Twitter and Facebook when it is produced.

-- 

Roy Jamison (xteejx)
Ubuntu Bug Squad
Ubuntu Bug Control
www.ubuntu.com


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Liam Proven]

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Philip Newborough
 wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Liam Proven  wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 6:50 PM, danteash...@gmail.com
>>  wrote:
>>> (Gloucestershire College) and our work will also find it's way onto the
>>
>> Not being any time of media person, really, I can't usefully
>> contribute much. However, I suggest that learning how to spell and
>> punctuate the possessive "its" would be a big first step.
>>
>
> I am not any type of media person either, but I suggest that learning
> when to use "type" over "time" would also be a big step.

Ahahaha! :¬) Touché!

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Isabell Long]

On Sat, Dec 04, 2010 at 12:24:56PM +, Philip Newborough wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Liam Proven  wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 6:50 PM, danteash...@gmail.com
> >  wrote:
> >> (Gloucestershire College) and our work will also find it's way onto the
> >
> > Not being any time of media person, really, I can't usefully
> > contribute much. However, I suggest that learning how to spell and
> > punctuate the possessive "its" would be a big first step.
> >
> 
> I am not any type of media person either, but I suggest that learning
> when to use "type" over "time" would also be a big step.

Let's be nice. :)

I.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Philip Newborough]

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Liam Proven  wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 6:50 PM, danteash...@gmail.com
>  wrote:
>> (Gloucestershire College) and our work will also find it's way onto the
>
> Not being any time of media person, really, I can't usefully
> contribute much. However, I suggest that learning how to spell and
> punctuate the possessive "its" would be a big first step.
>

I am not any type of media person either, but I suggest that learning
when to use "type" over "time" would also be a big step.

**chuckles**

 -- Philip

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[Liam Proven]

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 6:50 PM, danteash...@gmail.com
 wrote:
> (Gloucestershire College) and our work will also find it's way onto the

Not being any time of media person, really, I can't usefully
contribute much. However, I suggest that learning how to spell and
punctuate the possessive "its" would be a big first step.

"It's" only EVER means "it is". "Belonging to it" is written "its" - a
possessive pronoun which takes no apostrophe, the same as the other
English possessive pronouns ending in "s": "his", "hers", "ours",
"theirs" and "yours". You wouldn't put an apostrophe in any of those,
would you? So why put one on "its"?

Don't be like Nivea or Magnum and circulate illiterate advertisements
in the national media. All I feel for those companies now is outright
contempt and disdain.

This may seem like cavilling, but in context, I think it's
particularly important.

As for adverts: well, the "selling points" I use are, in approximate
order of priority:
[1] it's immune to all viruses and spyware
[2] that it costs nothing & is entirely legitimate
[3] it comes with a huge selection of apps, all free too
[4] it can be used to bring an older computer back to life
[5] it reads and writes all Microsoft files and anything from any
Windows or Mac program.

Some of these are over-simplifications but they're worth it, I feel.

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[ubuntu-uk] Want to create an advert for Ubuntu?

[danteash...@gmail.com]

Hello all!

I'm Dante, Project Leader of the Ubuntu Advert Team, and WE need YOU!

We are creating advert(s) for Ubuntu, for a non-technical audience. These
adverts will be on the radio, at cinemas and (when we get enough funding
together) on the TV. We need literally everyone, from graphics artists to
actors to animators to writers and translators. This material will be also
be given to the LoCo teams. We are acquiring studio access in Gloucester
(Gloucestershire College) and our work will also find it's way onto the
Ubuntu homepage. I don't think I need to stress that this is very important;
this is Ubuntu making itself known to the public for the first time.

Please, help us make it great. Join us if you can/want to help. Spread the
word!


http://ubuntuadverts.org/
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-advertising

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