Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
TheVeech wrote: > Can you post the torrent link for alternate i386 on the 19th :) You can request Feisty CD's from Shipit already. -- Dave Murphy - http://www.schwuk.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
Tony Travis wrote: > Personally, I use 6.06.1 LTS, because I'm fed up of fixing 'bleeding' > edge releases when I'm trying to use Linux for my research work. I've been using Feisty daily since Herd 2 with little or no stability problems. It's shaping up to be a solid release. -- Dave Murphy - http://www.schwuk.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 18:09 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: > TheVeech wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 17:15 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: > >> TheVeech wrote: > >>> On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:58 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: > [...] > > > Can you post the torrent link for alternate i386 on the 19th :) > > Hello, Veech. > > Nope, you'll just have to make do with the 'old' one from 2nd March :-| > > http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-5/feisty-alternate-i386.iso.torrent What, there's not going to be a Feisty Final torrent?!?!?!?? > Personally, I use 6.06.1 LTS, because I'm fed up of fixing 'bleeding' > edge releases when I'm trying to use Linux for my research work. I've > got it on my laptop too, so I learn about 6.06.1 while I play :-) Yes, I wouldn't mess about with new releases if I was doing critical work on my machine either. Because I'm not, though, I'm freed up to muck around in the sandpit of new releases to see which direction the distro is heading in and what the new toys are. That said, once you've got things set up, that's that, and Feisty then isn't a million miles away from 6.06. > I got my fingers badly burned using the 6.06.1 'backports 'repository > recently, so I don't do that anymore - It seemed such a good idea! LOL. I've heard people lauding the wonders of this and that repository, but I try to avoid all that. I learnt the hard way when I started out, trying anything and everything I could. Good way to learn, bad for stability when you want to use your computer for actually doing things...like, er, work! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David M wrote: > Alan Pope wrote in gmane.linux.ubuntu.user.british > [decision-making on IRC versus list] > >> Instead? I don't think so. Of the "top 30" posters to the list (as in the >> url I linked to above) I recognise many of the names from the irc channel. >> Don't think that there is a clear deliniation between "those who use irc" >> and "those who use the mailing list", there is a massive crossover, it's >> just that you're not in that crossover :). > > OK, but I'm suspecting that there are also others who would like to be > able to help where they can but can't commit to regular IRC sessions. > > If the rest of us are to be able to be involved, there needs to be some > information sharing from IRC meetings, eg summaries of what happened, > calls for assistance, etc. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes the links on there have both summaries and actual logs of everything said in each meeting (except the very infrequent face to face ones) >> We (Ubuntu-UK) are really just following the lead set by Ubuntu/Canonical. >> Pretty much all meetings are held on IRC, not just ours. Take a look at the >> schedule on the fridge for example:- http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event Pretty >> much everything you see there is a meeting on IRC. > > These seem to be meetings for people who have some fairly serious > involvement and can presumably make time, however. In any group there is > obviously a requirement for some very involved commitment, but a large > army of helpers who can help out with 'small things' and help to spread > the workload is never to be sniffed at! Lots (probably most) loco teams work this way too, they're often not listed on the fridge calendar though. > > What is also concerning me is that things presumably happen in these > meetings and the rest of us I don't think know about them. It makes it > harder to get involved at all if it's not possible to be kept in the > loop. We have meeting summaries posted on the wiki [0] and the thread you replied to is about one of the discussion items. We could make a better job of mailing the summaries straight to the list though, mailing the logs is probably not worth it, but we can link back to them on the wiki. People who care could also subscribe to UKTeam/MeetingNotes/.* on the wiki to be notified when any of the meeting summary pages are updated. Thanks, Dean [0] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGHUIseedO8dcp9nYRAqHDAJ4gwoJxY/rItgZhU8DCPa6rxZZeHACfYEYm 6emhOiifdlMiAFperZRI9L8= =+4ZT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David M wrote: > Hi Nik, > > Nik Butler wrote in gmane.linux.ubuntu.user.british > >> So who are the team ? Well theres no real definitive answer on that >> one. We dont actually have a "leader" but we do have a number of people >> whom you could consider a point of contact for various activities. The >> LocoContact in this case , me , is a person ( or group of persons ) who >> are considered to be reliably "available" and consistently involved in >> the Loco community > > Thanks for the definition. I have to admit I was still confused by > "LoCoContact" as a word, although having had a quick swatch from the > UKTeam wikipage (so is that the main 'entry point' to the UK usergroup > part of the website?) Yes, see also ubuntu-uk.org I have managed to dig up that LoCo = Local > Community team. Now, I know that we techie types love our jargon and > acronyms, but it's perhaps perversely ironic that the term that is > presumably intended to be most welcoming to potential or new Ubuntu users > is completely incomprehensible to people in that very position! :-( > You're right, it's not very discoverable, how could that be fixed? I'm not going to type out Local Community Team particularly in fast paced IRC discussions. We should also retain the name as it is common across Ubuntu. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGHT64eedO8dcp9nYRAi4nAJ9SI9lXTyOAcViaPP6quEHfHVVURQCfV5fV +fkh9oRD1fJYVfQpyoIA2dY= =I83E -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
TheVeech wrote: > On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 17:15 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: >> TheVeech wrote: >>> On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:58 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: [...] > Can you post the torrent link for alternate i386 on the 19th :) Hello, Veech. Nope, you'll just have to make do with the 'old' one from 2nd March :-| http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-5/feisty-alternate-i386.iso.torrent Personally, I use 6.06.1 LTS, because I'm fed up of fixing 'bleeding' edge releases when I'm trying to use Linux for my research work. I've got it on my laptop too, so I learn about 6.06.1 while I play :-) I got my fingers badly burned using the 6.06.1 'backports 'repository recently, so I don't do that anymore - It seemed such a good idea! Tony. -- Dr. A.J.Travis, | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Rowett Research Institute, |http://www.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, | phone:+44 (0)1224 712751 Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK.| fax:+44 (0)1224 716687 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 17:15 +0100, Tony Travis wrote: > TheVeech wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:58 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: > >> That kind of implies that there are no "learned rules" or "etiquette" > >> on the > >> [...] > > > > This is one of those areas where people mean well but tend to get > > carried away with their emotions and prejudices. > > [...] > > I've been around mailing list for a long time, and nothing disappoints > me more than the enthusiasm with which people take up OTT arguments on > lists like this: It's usually about renaming the list, or what the list > 'policy' is about OTT threads, or if the list should be moderated and > all sorts of other unimportant side issues that have little to do with > the reason the list was created for in the first place, which is to be > read by people with a common interest in the topic the list is about. > > FWIW, I think TheVeech is right: You don't have to read any of this and > if you don't want to then don't. My criticism is that most of us don't > want quite such a detailed explanation of what is self evident. We just > want to talk to each other about Ubuntu, so let's do a bit more of that. Point taken. Can you post the torrent link for alternate i386 on the 19th :) > Best wishes, > > Tony. > -- > Dr. A.J.Travis, | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Rowett Research Institute, |http://www.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt > Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, | phone:+44 (0)1224 712751 > Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK.| fax:+44 (0)1224 716687 > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 16:29 +0100, Robin Menneer wrote: > > The British masses started to shout successfully for themselves after > living in the trenches in the 14-18 war, and more so after the 39-45 > war. Let's not put the clock back. No, lets. History's crucial. You wouldn't be thinking some of the things you think or living in the world you're in without the brashness of a scientist in the past century who had a healthy disrespect for others. What happened 10 years ago is significant because we thought we were thoroughly above such things then. Had we really learnt the lessons of history Britain wouldn't have been vulnerable to such anti-democratic tendencies that are always pending the conditions of their reemergence (remember, some people had their houses trashed for having the 'wrong' opinions while people were laying down teddy bears at Kensington Palace!). Today some of our politicians make similar mistakes in relation to the Middle East that are more akin to certain states in the 30s and 40s than our idealised view of ourselves (also don't forget that not everything is clear cut: great as he was, Churchill was an establishment figure who believed wholeheartedly in eugenics). Who does the military even today have to swear allegiance to? It ain't me and you, Robin. I don't believe in God or blue blood. Whatever happened in those Wars didn't change who the military swears that allegiance to or adequately address the fundamental faultlines in British society. Linux inclines towards freedoms that extend beyond 'free of cost', so for some to understand the wider issues is important (maybe people from other cultures are more equipped to debate such things than us), and history's got a role in that if for nothing else than to highlight the fact that we're in a historical period that is influenced by selected histories and will be superseded. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
TheVeech wrote: > On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:58 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: >> That kind of implies that there are no "learned rules" or "etiquette" >> on the >> [...] > > This is one of those areas where people mean well but tend to get > carried away with their emotions and prejudices. > [...] I've been around mailing list for a long time, and nothing disappoints me more than the enthusiasm with which people take up OTT arguments on lists like this: It's usually about renaming the list, or what the list 'policy' is about OTT threads, or if the list should be moderated and all sorts of other unimportant side issues that have little to do with the reason the list was created for in the first place, which is to be read by people with a common interest in the topic the list is about. FWIW, I think TheVeech is right: You don't have to read any of this and if you don't want to then don't. My criticism is that most of us don't want quite such a detailed explanation of what is self evident. We just want to talk to each other about Ubuntu, so let's do a bit more of that. Best wishes, Tony. -- Dr. A.J.Travis, | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Rowett Research Institute, |http://www.rri.sari.ac.uk/~ajt Greenburn Road, Bucksburn, | phone:+44 (0)1224 712751 Aberdeen AB21 9SB, Scotland, UK.| fax:+44 (0)1224 716687 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On 4/11/07, TheVeech <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:58 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: > > That kind of implies that there are no "learned rules" or "etiquette" > on the > other systems. This clearly isn't the case. There is etiquette on the > mailing list (preference for bottom posting, stripping and quoting > correctly) and there would be on Skype (for example) too. If you held > a > meeting on Skype for example and I came online with Jono Bacon Style > music > blearing out in the background you'd disconnect me (either due to the > content or > presentation :) ). > > Etiquette and "learned rules" are things that people just have to damn > well > learn or they become difficult to tolerate in a community. This has > nothing > to do with mailing lists, forums, irc, skype or any other technology, > but > it's about people. People having respect for other members of their > community. This is one of those areas where people mean well but tend to get carried away with their emotions and prejudices. First off, what are my weaknesses? I'm British. I live within British culture and am heavily influenced by its ideas. From an early age (up until my late-teens/early twenties) I've been schooled to value and respect inequality. The main media organisation here - the BBC - has as part of its role being one of the engines of consent, with a damn good track record, consenting to the British 'way of life' by default, which is tied in with notions of inequality. In my everyday life offline, then, I'm exposed to messages of inequality in a way that my nation has successfully sustained for centuries. However, online, and in my total exposure to media, I'm exposed - or have easy access to - different ideas in a way that's unparallelled in the history of my nation. I'm pulled in two directions. But my everyday life is lived offline and exerts the greater influence over my thinking. Therefore, inequality plays a greater part in my life than equality. IMHO, to properly understand freedoms, codes and the like, I need to understand the detailed debate about equality, not just the stuff you find from an individual school of thought, or in the 'deep and meaningful' mags. I don't, my culture doesn't prioritise it and my weakness is being unable to properly address freedom and conduct well enough to be able to make decisions on other people's content. I can't be a censor for them because I haven't got the authority and shouldn't have. That doesn't stop me from researching and debating such issues, but it does suggest that my arguments aren't inevitably comprehensive or watertight. My limited view is that there's a whole host of issues involved in censorship and regulation: power, authority, legitimacy, ideology, Zeitgeist, etc., etc. That's one of the reasons that in your post you sound to me like an authoritarian dad who's overtired and has to try to impose his will upon his charges because he hasn't got whatever authority he thought he had. The problems seem to come when a select few 'decide' to become everyone's official censor! There's an echo of your sentiments in the debate going on about blogs and codes that's been instigated by an emotive event that is heavily influencing the agenda and the conclusions being reached. It's a pretty bizarre story, but entirely of its time. You seem to be calling for some sort of official code. That in itself is ideological and against the way some people think of the Net. What's also problematic is that codes are wide open to abuse both in formation and implementation and for your idea to be practical, you'd have to have sufficient mechanisms in place to safeguard against abuse, as well as uphold its 'laws'. I'd be surprised if anyone on this list has the background, experience and knowledge to adequately undertake that task. Go back nearly 10 years. The anti-democratic tendency in British society then was to quash dissenting voices. However, one of the most dissenting voices came from an unusual quarter and went against all the embarrassing and irrational social pressures at that time. Rupert Murdoch, asked if he made any mistakes about the coverage of a British Princess, merely said that he paid the paparazzi too much! Shock, horror! But no backlash. Why? This smashed to pieces the 'rules' of conduct that were then in play, so there should have been a sufficiently emotive response. There were two simple reasons why there wasn't: the bad logic at the time couldn't sustain a rational argument against this entirely valid response or cope with it exposing crucial issues. Secondly, and more importantly, Murdoch was more powerful than the opposing voices against him (who, incidentally, are supposed to uphold the freedom of the press). That's the problem with your ideas about codes: they're subject to key influences, some of which you might not be aware of. They're also likely to put off people who don't particularly like the idea that someone somew
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Wed, 2007-04-11 at 09:58 +0100, Alan Pope wrote: > > That kind of implies that there are no "learned rules" or "etiquette" > on the > other systems. This clearly isn't the case. There is etiquette on the > mailing list (preference for bottom posting, stripping and quoting > correctly) and there would be on Skype (for example) too. If you held > a > meeting on Skype for example and I came online with Jono Bacon Style > music > blearing out in the background you'd disconnect me (either due to the > content or > presentation :) ). > > Etiquette and "learned rules" are things that people just have to damn > well > learn or they become difficult to tolerate in a community. This has > nothing > to do with mailing lists, forums, irc, skype or any other technology, > but > it's about people. People having respect for other members of their > community. This is one of those areas where people mean well but tend to get carried away with their emotions and prejudices. First off, what are my weaknesses? I'm British. I live within British culture and am heavily influenced by its ideas. From an early age (up until my late-teens/early twenties) I've been schooled to value and respect inequality. The main media organisation here - the BBC - has as part of its role being one of the engines of consent, with a damn good track record, consenting to the British 'way of life' by default, which is tied in with notions of inequality. In my everyday life offline, then, I'm exposed to messages of inequality in a way that my nation has successfully sustained for centuries. However, online, and in my total exposure to media, I'm exposed - or have easy access to - different ideas in a way that's unparallelled in the history of my nation. I'm pulled in two directions. But my everyday life is lived offline and exerts the greater influence over my thinking. Therefore, inequality plays a greater part in my life than equality. IMHO, to properly understand freedoms, codes and the like, I need to understand the detailed debate about equality, not just the stuff you find from an individual school of thought, or in the 'deep and meaningful' mags. I don't, my culture doesn't prioritise it and my weakness is being unable to properly address freedom and conduct well enough to be able to make decisions on other people's content. I can't be a censor for them because I haven't got the authority and shouldn't have. That doesn't stop me from researching and debating such issues, but it does suggest that my arguments aren't inevitably comprehensive or watertight. My limited view is that there's a whole host of issues involved in censorship and regulation: power, authority, legitimacy, ideology, Zeitgeist, etc., etc. That's one of the reasons that in your post you sound to me like an authoritarian dad who's overtired and has to try to impose his will upon his charges because he hasn't got whatever authority he thought he had. The problems seem to come when a select few 'decide' to become everyone's official censor! There's an echo of your sentiments in the debate going on about blogs and codes that's been instigated by an emotive event that is heavily influencing the agenda and the conclusions being reached. It's a pretty bizarre story, but entirely of its time. You seem to be calling for some sort of official code. That in itself is ideological and against the way some people think of the Net. What's also problematic is that codes are wide open to abuse both in formation and implementation and for your idea to be practical, you'd have to have sufficient mechanisms in place to safeguard against abuse, as well as uphold its 'laws'. I'd be surprised if anyone on this list has the background, experience and knowledge to adequately undertake that task. Go back nearly 10 years. The anti-democratic tendency in British society then was to quash dissenting voices. However, one of the most dissenting voices came from an unusual quarter and went against all the embarrassing and irrational social pressures at that time. Rupert Murdoch, asked if he made any mistakes about the coverage of a British Princess, merely said that he paid the paparazzi too much! Shock, horror! But no backlash. Why? This smashed to pieces the 'rules' of conduct that were then in play, so there should have been a sufficiently emotive response. There were two simple reasons why there wasn't: the bad logic at the time couldn't sustain a rational argument against this entirely valid response or cope with it exposing crucial issues. Secondly, and more importantly, Murdoch was more powerful than the opposing voices against him (who, incidentally, are supposed to uphold the freedom of the press). That's the problem with your ideas about codes: they're subject to key influences, some of which you might not be aware of. They're also likely to put off people who don't particularly like the idea that someone somewhere can have some official role in s
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 08:27:41AM +0100, Nik Butler wrote: > There are plenty of other > channels for meetings such as Skype, Talkshoe and Flashmeeting All nice closed applications there. In addition to which for me ( someone who *does* participate and *does* use IRC ) they don't fit the bill for realtime communication with a large number of people from anywhere using any device. I can participate in a meeting from my PDA via Wifi, my mobile phone via GPRS, my laptop via wifi with an SSH client and so on. The barrier to entry on IRC is stunningly low. The barrier to entry for all the methods you mention are quite high (no skype client for my pda or phone, no flash player also, high bandwidth requirements for voice). I appreciate you were just listing a bunch of examples of "other ways" in which to communicate, but I really don't see how any of them can "beat" IRC. Especially now Ubuntu has IRC clients (GAIM/Pidgin) which are now familiar to people who use instant messengers. None of those technologies would be useful for a large number of people who need to communicate in real time. There are only two technologies I can think of that do, IRC and Jabber, both open, well documented technologies. > I do however understand not using IRC I find it at times to be very high > in geek level utilisation and it comes with yet another group of > etiquette and "learned rules" which for many is just one more thing too far. > That kind of implies that there are no "learned rules" or "etiquette" on the other systems. This clearly isn't the case. There is etiquette on the mailing list (preference for bottom posting, stripping and quoting correctly) and there would be on Skype (for example) too. If you held a meeting on Skype for example and I came online with Jono Bacon Style music blearing out in the background you'd disconnect me (either due to the content or presentation :) ). Etiquette and "learned rules" are things that people just have to damn well learn or they become difficult to tolerate in a community. This has nothing to do with mailing lists, forums, irc, skype or any other technology, but it's about people. People having respect for other members of their community. It's also about the way in which people are told. People can be informed how the community runs, and they can choose to adapt their behaviour to integrate with that community or they can continue to do whatever their poor-etiquette manifests as. Guess who is more likely to be listened to, respected and accepted? Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
David M wrote: > Nik Butler wrote in gmane.linux.ubuntu.user.british > about: UKTeam meeting update > >> Did you know there are 380 subscribers to the UK Maillist allowing for >> duplicates and metoo addresses thats not a small number of people >> chatting and sharing ideas about Ubuntu. > > That ain't bad..! > >> We had the 8th meeting of the UKTeam the channel last night and the >> topic of Roles and Contacts ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Contact ) , >> especially relating to the LOCOContact arose. > > I sometimes get the feeling that we live in a number of parallel universes.. > > Y'see, I don't *do* IRC, not really for any particular religious > reasons, but because it doesn't suit me. With a mailing list, or a > newsgroup, or even a forum (bleh), I can pop in and out and read and > reply as and when it suits me. Whereas IRC is a here and now thing, and > while a certain here and a certain now might suit some people, there are > always going to be others who are doing other things at that time. I also do not usually find IRC convenient, and almost always use lists. However IRC does give an immediacy with an impression of personal contact. I run a medical related self help online group which only uses a forum/s, and there is a notable difficulty in creating and encouraging any useful (to the group) sense of personal contact. This means that strategy and big admin decisions are left to one or two individuals who become (and feel) isolated. IRC would help (or messenger like things) but the tradition has not been developed and the group has a very uncertain future because of this. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
Snipping from David and Alans post. First off, David hello and welcome to the list I see from your posts your taking time to read various postings which is great and I am glad to see that your taking time to comment. You are spot on about the issues of numbers on this list vs numbers in irc. Ive mentioned this on the IRC channel (#ubuntu-uk on irc.freenode.net ) a number of times that the total number of people reading the forums and maillists and Wiki certainly is not represented by those who join in on IRC. As Alan ( Alan Pope, popey on irc ) has pointed out, the numbers of people contributing on the maillist is also disproportionate to the number of people involved in reading the lists, and so it is with the wikis. I am not sure there is a balance to be had though in defining where we are as a community UK wide. I , like you, also have my reservations about IRC and if it wasn't there I wouldn't kick start it as a product to use. There are plenty of other channels for meetings such as Skype, Talkshoe and Flashmeeting, as well as Wikis, Forums and Mailists they all have their strengths and their weaknesses equally. IRC has proven to be the lowest common denominator when it comes to a mechanism to enable near instant communication across the team and its been there for most of the Ubunut community worldwide. I do however understand not using IRC I find it at times to be very high in geek level utilisation and it comes with yet another group of etiquette and "learned rules" which for many is just one more thing too far. So who are the team ? Well theres no real definitive answer on that one. We dont actually have a "leader" but we do have a number of people whom you could consider a point of contact for various activities. The LocoContact in this case , me , is a person ( or group of persons ) who are considered to be reliably "available" and consistently involved in the Loco community which I hope is a good bottom line description since I dont feel technical merits should be the definition of who can get involved . But I am glad to see another contributor who is diving right in , asking pertinent questions and getting things out there so welcome to the list and do come say hello . Nik Butler ps , for more details on the usual suspects see : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Contact -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 11:05:02PM +0100, David M wrote: > Nik Butler wrote in gmane.linux.ubuntu.user.british > about: UKTeam meeting update > > > Did you know there are 380 subscribers to the UK Maillist allowing for > > duplicates and metoo addresses thats not a small number of people > > chatting and sharing ideas about Ubuntu. > > That ain't bad..! > There are also a tremendous number of people who say (next to) nothing. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MailingListStats 10 people account for 31% of the mail since the list started. That's less than 3% of the membership accounting for 31% of the volume. That's about right for most mailing lists I am on. > > We had the 8th meeting of the UKTeam the channel last night and the > > topic of Roles and Contacts ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Contact ) , > > especially relating to the LOCOContact arose. > > I sometimes get the feeling that we live in a number of parallel universes.. > > Y'see, I don't *do* IRC, not really for any particular religious > reasons, but because it doesn't suit me. With a mailing list, or a > newsgroup, or even a forum (bleh), I can pop in and out and read and > reply as and when it suits me. Whereas IRC is a here and now thing, and > while a certain here and a certain now might suit some people, there are > always going to be others who are doing other things at that time. > I guess a meeting on IRC is about as close to an in-person meeting of minds as we can get. It's not practical for us to all physically be in one place at one time. IRC allows us to discuss things in a finite amount of time from pretty much anywhere using a myriad of internet-connected devices. Mailing lists also allow the free communication and collaboration from remote locations bit. The time lag though can be quite painful. Especially if people chip in after the meeting has "concluded". Mailing list discussions tend to ramble on with diversions here and there. IRC meetings are often on time, to schedule and everyone gets their point across - assuming a good meeting "chair". > I'm starting to get the impression that a certain amount of 'stuff' > goes on on IRC that never filters down to The Rest Of Us. Just for > example, what is this "UKTeam" (or "LOCOContact", come to that), and > how does it differ from this collection of Ubuntu enthusiasts as a whole? > The UKTeam is detailed on the wiki:- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam. > > Id like to remind everyone reading this message that the UKTeam has a > > regular meeting at which only 40 members are present but in general 10 > > to most of the discussions. Id love to see more people around during the > > meetings and providing input on the Agendas or at the meeting and if you > > have and concerns or questions about taking part in just this way then > > get in touch. > > I think there's a message there: we have almost 400 members on the list > (which is pretty impressive), but only 40, or even less, on IRC, less > than 10%, in other words. Now, for folk who enjoy IRC, that's all well > and good (and don't let me stop you enjoying it), but it seems to me, > that the rest - the majority - of the UK Ubuntu community (who are > online/involved in any sense) are here on the list instead. > Instead? I don't think so. Of the "top 30" posters to the list (as in the url I linked to above) I recognise many of the names from the irc channel. Don't think that there is a clear deliniation between "those who use irc" and "those who use the mailing list", there is a massive crossover, it's just that you're not in that crossover :). Also be very careful of extrapolating mailing list membership numbers to anything at all. A number of UK LUG Masters (the people who run regional LUGs) have made the assumption that :- number of members of mailing list [(should) =] number of contributors This is a bad assumption to make. Many people in our community are lurkers, people who sit back and watch the conversation pass by, or maybe completely ignore it. To include them in stats about how many people contribute or indeed should contribute is misguided. As an analogy think of all the people on the road who drive Mondeos but *aren't* in the "Official Mondeo Owners Club" [OMOC] (if indeed such an entity exists). Are those people in the Mondeo "community"? Or are they just passive users of the technology, not really interested in becoming a "member". Maybe they use the mailing list or forum of the OMOC to find out what that annoying noise is in the dashboard, are they *then* members of the community? Should their "vote" count? Should they have a say, as a very small non-vocal non-participatory "member"? In these communities generally there are a few people who "do stuff", a few more who "chip in" and a vast swathe of people who sit back and watch. There is nothing inherently wrong with that, it's just the way it is. I don't think we should try to make people do stuff they
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
Robin Menneer wrote: > On 3/21/07, Michael Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Robin Menneer wrote: >> > On 3/21/07, Nik Butler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >> >> Did you know there are 380 subscribers to the UK Maillist allowing for >> >> duplicates and metoo addresses thats not a small number of people >> >> chatting and sharing ideas about Ubuntu. meanwhile the IRC Channel >> >> #ubuntu-uk is growing steadily with approximately 40 members in channel >> >> at any time. The wiki ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam ) is growing and >> >> the information found there is a demonstration of how much we are all >> >> doing within the community. >> >> >> >> We had the 8th meeting of the UKTeam the channel last night and the >> >> topic of Roles and Contacts ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Contact ) , >> >> especially relating to the LOCOContact arose. I have created a new page >> >> on the wiki to detail the current roles and responsibilities. I would >> >> invite everyone to review these and if there are questions, concerns, >> >> thoughts or ideas then please get in touch here or direct to me. >> >> >> >> Id like to remind everyone reading this message that the UKTeam has a >> >> regular meeting at which only 40 members are present but in general 10 >> >> to most of the discussions. Id love to see more people around during the >> >> meetings and providing input on the Agendas or at the meeting and if you >> >> have and concerns or questions about taking part in just this way then >> >> get in touch. I appreciate we are much more a meritocracy than democracy >> >> and I really dont want to get bogged down with "commitees" so the >> >> purpose of the Contact page is to highlight key areas that are currently >> >> "managed" and give people who may wish to help an opportunity to ask for >> >> others to know your out there. >> >> >> >> That is all for now and thanks for reading. >> >> >> >> Nik Butler >> >> Ubuntu-UK >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com >> >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk >> >> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ >> >> >> >> >> > As an aged and thick newbe of some months standing, I'm still trying >> > to find my way around Ubuntu. What I joined for is easier ways of >> > doing things on my computer than I can do on my friendly mac, probably >> > like most thickies taking on Ubuntu (Windows is a no-no for me). >> > Probably we need a single route for absolute thickies off which they >> > can be tempted (at different points) when they are sure of themselves. >> > >> > >> Just a reminder, you can learn about getting on IRC using this screen >> case made by our very own Alan Pope: >> http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/Installing_and_Using_XChat-Gnome >> >> Or if you wish to use Gaim: >> http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/Connecting_to_IRC_Using_GAIM >> >> if you have xchat-remote installed you can also do run (alt+f2) and >> type: xchat-remote --url=irc://irc.freenode.org/#ubuntu-uk >> >> simple as that :) >> >> > > Three more new methods of communicating withoiut qualifications - I'm > confused now as to whether I continue looking at this list. Sorry, it > ain't simple to me :( Stay with this list! Just be aware that other methods also exist, but you do not have to use them. I much prefer lists (such as this). -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On 3/21/07, Michael Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Robin Menneer wrote: > > On 3/21/07, Nik Butler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Did you know there are 380 subscribers to the UK Maillist allowing for > >> duplicates and metoo addresses thats not a small number of people > >> chatting and sharing ideas about Ubuntu. meanwhile the IRC Channel > >> #ubuntu-uk is growing steadily with approximately 40 members in channel > >> at any time. The wiki ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam ) is growing and > >> the information found there is a demonstration of how much we are all > >> doing within the community. > >> > >> We had the 8th meeting of the UKTeam the channel last night and the > >> topic of Roles and Contacts ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Contact ) , > >> especially relating to the LOCOContact arose. I have created a new page > >> on the wiki to detail the current roles and responsibilities. I would > >> invite everyone to review these and if there are questions, concerns, > >> thoughts or ideas then please get in touch here or direct to me. > >> > >> Id like to remind everyone reading this message that the UKTeam has a > >> regular meeting at which only 40 members are present but in general 10 > >> to most of the discussions. Id love to see more people around during the > >> meetings and providing input on the Agendas or at the meeting and if you > >> have and concerns or questions about taking part in just this way then > >> get in touch. I appreciate we are much more a meritocracy than democracy > >> and I really dont want to get bogged down with "commitees" so the > >> purpose of the Contact page is to highlight key areas that are currently > >> "managed" and give people who may wish to help an opportunity to ask for > >> others to know your out there. > >> > >> That is all for now and thanks for reading. > >> > >> Nik Butler > >> Ubuntu-UK > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com > >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk > >> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ > >> > >> > > As an aged and thick newbe of some months standing, I'm still trying > > to find my way around Ubuntu. What I joined for is easier ways of > > doing things on my computer than I can do on my friendly mac, probably > > like most thickies taking on Ubuntu (Windows is a no-no for me). > > Probably we need a single route for absolute thickies off which they > > can be tempted (at different points) when they are sure of themselves. > > > > > Just a reminder, you can learn about getting on IRC using this screen > case made by our very own Alan Pope: > http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/Installing_and_Using_XChat-Gnome > > Or if you wish to use Gaim: > http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/Connecting_to_IRC_Using_GAIM > > if you have xchat-remote installed you can also do run (alt+f2) and > type: xchat-remote --url=irc://irc.freenode.org/#ubuntu-uk > > simple as that :) > > Three more new methods of communicating withoiut qualifications - I'm confused now as to whether I continue looking at this list. Sorry, it ain't simple to me :( > -- > /\/\ichael [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] > \/\/ood [ http://michaelwood.me.uk ] > > > -- > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk > https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
Robin Menneer wrote: > On 3/21/07, Nik Butler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Did you know there are 380 subscribers to the UK Maillist allowing for >> duplicates and metoo addresses thats not a small number of people >> chatting and sharing ideas about Ubuntu. meanwhile the IRC Channel >> #ubuntu-uk is growing steadily with approximately 40 members in channel >> at any time. The wiki ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam ) is growing and >> the information found there is a demonstration of how much we are all >> doing within the community. >> >> We had the 8th meeting of the UKTeam the channel last night and the >> topic of Roles and Contacts ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Contact ) , >> especially relating to the LOCOContact arose. I have created a new page >> on the wiki to detail the current roles and responsibilities. I would >> invite everyone to review these and if there are questions, concerns, >> thoughts or ideas then please get in touch here or direct to me. >> >> Id like to remind everyone reading this message that the UKTeam has a >> regular meeting at which only 40 members are present but in general 10 >> to most of the discussions. Id love to see more people around during the >> meetings and providing input on the Agendas or at the meeting and if you >> have and concerns or questions about taking part in just this way then >> get in touch. I appreciate we are much more a meritocracy than democracy >> and I really dont want to get bogged down with "commitees" so the >> purpose of the Contact page is to highlight key areas that are currently >> "managed" and give people who may wish to help an opportunity to ask for >> others to know your out there. >> >> That is all for now and thanks for reading. >> >> Nik Butler >> Ubuntu-UK >> >> >> -- >> ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk >> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ >> >> > As an aged and thick newbe of some months standing, I'm still trying > to find my way around Ubuntu. What I joined for is easier ways of > doing things on my computer than I can do on my friendly mac, probably > like most thickies taking on Ubuntu (Windows is a no-no for me). > Probably we need a single route for absolute thickies off which they > can be tempted (at different points) when they are sure of themselves. > > Just a reminder, you can learn about getting on IRC using this screen case made by our very own Alan Pope: http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/Installing_and_Using_XChat-Gnome Or if you wish to use Gaim: http://doc.ubuntu.com/screencasts/Connecting_to_IRC_Using_GAIM if you have xchat-remote installed you can also do run (alt+f2) and type: xchat-remote --url=irc://irc.freenode.org/#ubuntu-uk simple as that :) -- /\/\ichael [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] \/\/ood [ http://michaelwood.me.uk ] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update
On 3/21/07, Nik Butler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Did you know there are 380 subscribers to the UK Maillist allowing for > duplicates and metoo addresses thats not a small number of people > chatting and sharing ideas about Ubuntu. meanwhile the IRC Channel > #ubuntu-uk is growing steadily with approximately 40 members in channel > at any time. The wiki ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam ) is growing and > the information found there is a demonstration of how much we are all > doing within the community. > > We had the 8th meeting of the UKTeam the channel last night and the > topic of Roles and Contacts ( http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Contact ) , > especially relating to the LOCOContact arose. I have created a new page > on the wiki to detail the current roles and responsibilities. I would > invite everyone to review these and if there are questions, concerns, > thoughts or ideas then please get in touch here or direct to me. > > Id like to remind everyone reading this message that the UKTeam has a > regular meeting at which only 40 members are present but in general 10 > to most of the discussions. Id love to see more people around during the > meetings and providing input on the Agendas or at the meeting and if you > have and concerns or questions about taking part in just this way then > get in touch. I appreciate we are much more a meritocracy than democracy > and I really dont want to get bogged down with "commitees" so the > purpose of the Contact page is to highlight key areas that are currently > "managed" and give people who may wish to help an opportunity to ask for > others to know your out there. > > That is all for now and thanks for reading. > > Nik Butler > Ubuntu-UK > > > -- > ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk > https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ > As an aged and thick newbe of some months standing, I'm still trying to find my way around Ubuntu. What I joined for is easier ways of doing things on my computer than I can do on my friendly mac, probably like most thickies taking on Ubuntu (Windows is a no-no for me). Probably we need a single route for absolute thickies off which they can be tempted (at different points) when they are sure of themselves. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
