Re: [ubuntu-uk] Who writes this stuff [long post]
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote: [Long post snipped] Matthew, Good message. I've just come off the phone from Mr. Scargill, who is an incredibly reasonable chap with some very positive things to say about Ubuntu. The point on which I absolutely agree with him is that integration/interoperability - for many businesses, this is the most important factor, since the costs of sorting out interfacing issues can (and in my experience frequently do) cost rather more than the software licences. He said that Ubuntu is the best version of Linux he has ever seen. He said that if he were starting a small business from scratch for office-based staff, he would use Ubuntu on the desktop. He also said that he had not yet come across good Linux tools that supported the mobile user base as well as the Exchange Mobile solution, so if he had mainly a field-based operation, he'd probably still go with Microsoft SBS. He said that he would like to know of any good tools to provide Exchange Mobile - equivalent solution for messaging (not email, but the more generic messaging problems.) I'm with him on that - I have a good email client (ThunderBird), but it's not a replacement for Outlook (as opposed to Outlook Express.) His biggest criticism of Linux is that what we see as choice is very close to confusion. And that one man's modular solution is another's set of different packages that need to be bolted together. What I think that we, as a group, often miss is that most people want a balance between choice and certainty. In some areas - the car I drive - I want to absolutely be able to pick something quirky and unusual (which is why I drive a Morgan.) In other areas, like say laser printers, I just want the certainty of dealing with something I'm familiar with and that I know will work (which is why I have an old HP Laserjet 4M Plus and an HP Colour Laserjet 2600n) - because I knew that I would be able to take them out of the box, and get them working in five minutes. While, on my personal PC, I want to be able to fiddle and install whatever software I want, when I was running helpdesks I had a duty to keep the overall cost of IT (not the licence cost - but the overall cost) down, because that was the mandate from the Board. The easiest way to keep costs down is to have complete standardisation across the organisation (I was supporting about 2,000 people across 6 locations) - that meant that I needed to have my desktop support staff trained in one set of applications - as a result of that, we could concentrate on building value-added services that would work across that set. Our problems came when one unit wanted, say, to use Excel instead of 123... or Word instead of WordPerfect (this was about 7 years ago - now the MS solutions are the incumbents...) The biggest thing we could do as a community to expand the installed reach of Linux would be to persuade Dell and PC World to offer Linux with a range of cheapest PCs... so that it became the value option. The reason that I'm on the Ubuntu list rather than that of any other distro is that I see the Ubuntu foundation / Canonical as the group with the most clear vision of how they are going to achieve that. When people raise criticisms, the winning approach is NEVER to say You're wrong - you need to do X, Y, and Z, but always to say Good point - what can we do to improve it? Mark -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Who writes this stuff [long post]
** Mark Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-05-23 12:54]: Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote: [Long post snipped] Matthew, Good message. I've just come off the phone from Mr. Scargill, who is an incredibly reasonable chap with some very positive things to say about Ubuntu. It must be the quality of his writing then, he totally fails to get that across unless you re-read it with that in mind. I read the positive comments as an 8/10 for effort, but still not good enough to even consider as more than a curiosity. The point on which I absolutely agree with him is that integration/interoperability - for many businesses, this is the most important factor, since the costs of sorting out interfacing issues can (and in my experience frequently do) cost rather more than the software licences. It always will be until alternatives to MS reach critical mass. At the moment the simple fact that it isn't MS is the biggest black mark against any alternative. It's a case of asking whether something is a good alternative and having the simple fact that it is an alternative defining the answer to be 'no'. sniop office-based staff, he would use Ubuntu on the desktop. He also said that he had not yet come across good Linux tools that supported the mobile user base as well as the Exchange Mobile solution, so if he had mainly a field-based operation, he'd probably still go with Microsoft SBS. He said that he would like to know of any good tools to provide Exchange Mobile - equivalent solution for messaging (not email, but the more generic messaging problems.) I'm with him on that - I have a good email client (ThunderBird), but it's not a replacement for Outlook (as opposed to Outlook Express.) I really should dig into this Exchange issue more, I know it does collaboration, but I've never found a situation where this has been of any use, or not enough to justify the costs involved. Back when I was last involved with a consideration of this sort it was not cost effective to use Exchange instead of the Netscape product, largely due to the client access licensing costs, but also because the single aging RS6000 that was capable of running the Netscape solution would have to be replaced by 4x Pentium Pro (that ages it!) systems with requisit NT Server and Exchange Server licenses. SBS was always dismissed due to the fact that whilst MS required the licenses to be run on a single machine, they also recommended not running everything on a single machine! His biggest criticism of Linux is that what we see as choice is very close to confusion. And that one man's modular solution is another's set of different packages that need to be bolted together. A tricky one this, end users don't want choice, nor to IT managers because it opens up the possibility of making the wrong one, but IT staff do (well, those that are in it because they like the job as opposed to those I've come across that are in it because it pays well and care not a jot for IT). What I think that we, as a group, often miss is that most people want a balance between choice and certainty. In some areas - the car I drive - I want to absolutely be able to pick something quirky and unusual (which is why I drive a Morgan.) In other areas, like say laser printers, I just want the certainty of dealing with something I'm familiar with and that I know will work (which is why I have an old HP Laserjet 4M Plus and an HP Colour Laserjet 2600n) - because I knew that I would be able to take them out of the box, and get them working in five minutes. True, but you had the initial choice between vendors and now have chosen to stick with one. Not exactly agreeing or disagreeing there! While, on my personal PC, I want to be able to fiddle and install whatever software I want, when I was running helpdesks I had a duty to keep the overall cost of IT (not the licence cost - but the overall cost) down, because that was the mandate from the Board. The easiest way to keep costs down is to have complete standardisation across the organisation (I was supporting about 2,000 people across 6 locations) - that meant that I needed to have my desktop support staff trained in one set of applications - as a result of that, we could concentrate on building value-added services that would work across that set. Our problems came when one unit wanted, say, to use Excel instead of 123... or Word instead of WordPerfect (this was about 7 years ago - now the MS solutions are the incumbents...) I remember that one well. Being an ex-IBM location meant using Lotus Smartsuite, but everyone wanted MS Office because it came on their home PC and their customer/supplier used it too having bought the latest Dell machine off the shelf (remember when you couldn't easily buy a machine without MS Office installed?). No manager would sign off on MS Office across the site because Lotus concurrently licensed, where MS insisted on one license
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Who writes this stuff [long post]
Sorry for the delay , Ive been out on site helping a business to get bedded in and sorted with their 2 user Ubuntu Desktop installation. mobile user base as well as the Exchange Mobile solution, so if he had Scheduleworld.co.uk with iCal and Google and SyncML intergration allows me to sync contacts and calendars between Mozilla Thunderbird and my Phone. His biggest criticism of Linux is that what we see as choice is very close to confusion. And that one man's modular solution is another's set of different packages that need to be bolted together. Yes, quite abit like trying to buy the correct Vista version and the appropriate licenses for MS Server 2003 with File/Terminal Client/Device access licenses then. And the Clearing house delay of upto 2 weeks can be ludicrous. Ive not had a chance to write and speak to Peter Scargill I would point out this is not the first time he has reviewed open source software. Anyway I would like to pass you this comment from the client I am not at all technically minded and I have been using Ubuntu now for 2 weeks and I am finding it incredibly easy and user friendly. Initially I was nervous about making the change and because it took me a while to master Windows and Outlook Express I didn't want the hassle of learning something new. Nik gave me a quick and simple lesson on how to use it and left me to experiment (safe in the knowledge that I could call him if I needed to). I was up and running confidently and quickly and have had no problems at all. it is fantastic. Jo Parker , Certain Shops. Same delivery, different platform . The Difference? This client will never experience vendor lock in. Cheers Nik -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Who writes this stuff [long post]
I have also written to Mr Scargill. I have tried to remain respectful, and in retrospect I did come on a bit strong initially. Chris -- Hi Peter, Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Chris; and I work in second line support specialising in Microsoft based infrastructure built around Active Directory. I'm also a Linux user (at work and at home) and would like to comment on your Linux article on the fsb.org.uk website. It's great to see that the article title has now been changed to include the fact that it is an opinion. This is rather important ;-) I wonder if you are aware of the Ubuntu 'answers' support system. You can see it here: https://answers.launchpad.net/ This system allows users to direct any question they have about running the operating system to a volunteer group who will for *free* reply with a advice to fix the problem. I thought it might be beneficial to include this fact in your article. Currently it reads Or you can choose Linux which is often free and then struggle with support (which probably won't be free). I'd also be interested to find out what problems you had with Ubuntu discovering your Windows network 'out of the box'? When plugging in Ubuntu Feisty to a Windows domain, it seems to work fine for me! If you find the same, perhaps you'd like to edit the part of your article that reads. Those installations of alternative operating systems which won't recognise my Windows network out of the box are immediately binned, those which do are given serious consideration to reflect the fact that Ubuntu does. I find this paragraph a little confusing. Linux enthusiasts have always had difficulty understanding why the average user would not want to get stuck in and have a go when it comes to making changes or installing accessories. For most small businesses, computers are a tool, nothing more. You don't expect to configure a hammer or sit for hours downloading and configuring updates to your CD player just to make it work. That pretty much happens with modern XP and VISTA-based packages - Are you saying that Linux needs lots of updates etc? This is also true of Windows. I've lost count of the times I've had to install dotnet, java, flash etc just to get apps up and running. I wonder if you could clear this paragraph up for me a little too. you simply cannot even BEGIN to compare the functionality of Open Office with Office 2007 - its not even remotely in the same league It'd be helpful if you could point out which features are lacking in Open Office so that we can see where we are going wrong. There are indeed 'horses for courses', and of course in some areas Microsoft excels and in others Linux does. I just feel that you are in an extremely privileged position, and that your opinions could influence the buying habits of FSB users heavily. Given that your employment centre around Microsoft, perhaps it would be better for someone else to write and article about Linux who is not involved ? Thankyou for your time. Kind Regards Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
