Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881] Re: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard
Sebastien Bacher a écrit ce qui suit, le 23/07/14 12:10 : it would be nice to have a bug we can use for the SRU, not sure if that one is appropriate since it's years old and close. Otherwise agreed that we should fix that issue in trusty In the Debian sid package xkb-data 2.12-1, the bug *is* corrected (Ubuntu is still at 2.10). I did install it in 14.04 and test with the Belgian alternate keyboard (based on the French). Both Ctrl keys do act as Ctrl. I do not understand the thing that would be nice to have above, but it is not an issue any more for Debian testing or for Debian unstable. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881]
You're kidding ! In France, professional typographists use Macintosh, I fear. And the average French user is not Joe, he's Jean. And I'll write unconstructive sarcasms until I get my Right-Ctrl back ! (Do note the French style space before the exclamation marks) Le 12 mai 2014 07:10, Swâmi Petaramesh 1013...@bugs.launchpad.net a écrit : About a short nbsp in french, let's make it perfectly clear that there must be about a hundred professionnal typographists in the whole country who care about it - most of them not using Linux BTW - and the rest of the ~40 million computer users here don't give a shit about a short nbsp and don't even know what it is, feel perfectly happy with the correct french they write without it, and many of them just would like their fscking right [Ctrl] key back. If a so thin minority of professional typographists that in no way represent the average french Joe user want this modifier, it's perfectly OK that they devise their own special layout for their on needs, but by no means impose it on the rest of us. -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881]
However, for most French people, standard Right-Ctrl key is more important than Nbsp. Especially for left-handed people who use left hand for the mouse and most letters, and right hand for Shift, Ctrl and AltGr. A notable exception is Alt which only exists on the left. Anyway, it's written Ctrl on the Right-Ctrl, so it MUST behave as a Ctrl. Put nbsp where you want, but give us back the Right-Ctrl. 2014-05-07 11:41 GMT+02:00 Nicolas-mailhot-laposte 1013...@bugs.launchpad.net: (In reply to comment #75) Nicolas, Where does the need to *have* a key for nbsp come from? Because unlike in English most French punctuation symbols require a space (sometimes a short space) before. And if it's not a non-breakable space apps will perform line breaks at the wrong position and you'll end up with orphan sumbols at line starts Online http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espace_ins%C3%A9cable Actual authoritative reverence (highly recommended if you want to work on any system with French inputs or outputs) http://www.amazon.fr/Lexique-r%C3%A8gles-typographiques-lImprimerie-Nationale/dp/2743304820 Lack of non breakspace on French layouts on some OSes is such a basic problem OpenOffice/LibreOffice had to hardcode a nbspc combo but that does not help when writing in you MUA, your browser, your IM client, etc Isn't a compose combo more appropriate and less error-prone? Compose is not appropriate for basic symbols you need to write pretty much any correct sentence in the target language. And adding a specific input method for one symbol just because some people can't live with the modifier ISO chose for level 5 is disproportionnate. -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881]
What if nbsp is accessible using AltGr+Space or AltGt+Shift+Space ? 2014-05-07 14:00 GMT+02:00 Emmanuel Castro emmanuel.cas...@laposte.net: However, for most French people, standard Right-Ctrl key is more important than Nbsp. Especially for left-handed people who use left hand for the mouse and most letters, and right hand for Shift, Ctrl and AltGr. A notable exception is Alt which only exists on the left. Anyway, it's written Ctrl on the Right-Ctrl, so it MUST behave as a Ctrl. Put nbsp where you want, but give us back the Right-Ctrl. 2014-05-07 11:41 GMT+02:00 Nicolas-mailhot-laposte 1013...@bugs.launchpad.net: (In reply to comment #75) Nicolas, Where does the need to *have* a key for nbsp come from? Because unlike in English most French punctuation symbols require a space (sometimes a short space) before. And if it's not a non-breakable space apps will perform line breaks at the wrong position and you'll end up with orphan sumbols at line starts Online http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espace_ins%C3%A9cable Actual authoritative reverence (highly recommended if you want to work on any system with French inputs or outputs) http://www.amazon.fr/Lexique-r%C3%A8gles-typographiques-lImprimerie-Nationale/dp/2743304820 Lack of non breakspace on French layouts on some OSes is such a basic problem OpenOffice/LibreOffice had to hardcode a nbspc combo but that does not help when writing in you MUA, your browser, your IM client, etc Isn't a compose combo more appropriate and less error-prone? Compose is not appropriate for basic symbols you need to write pretty much any correct sentence in the target language. And adding a specific input method for one symbol just because some people can't live with the modifier ISO chose for level 5 is disproportionnate. -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881]
Before searching a level5 chooser, please, a quick fix! 2014-05-02 0:59 GMT+02:00 Sergey V. Udaltsov s...@gnome.org: Nicolas, I understand the logic in your position about Level 5. But I see a number of unhappy people. Could we find some other level5 chooser? -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881]
I vote for Both [CTRL] keys should act as [CTRL] keys. Left one, rigth one, period. If it is not clear enough : Je vote pour que les deux touches [CTRL] agissent comme une touche [CTRL], la gauche, la droite, point-barre ! Et arrêtez vos conneries 2014-04-18 6:56 GMT+02:00 Swâmi Petaramesh 1013...@bugs.launchpad.net: BTW Sergey, I'm a bit surprised that you want a vote to fix something that people complain about, when you didn't need any vote to break it in the first place... Would you need a vote, I suggest that you put a survey system online by yourself on any web page that you'd like (so you know the vote is impartial), and we let people know about it... If you asks for a vote, it sounds logical that you organize it. -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881]
Swâmi Petaramesh, vous avez bien raison ! Hopefuly, Ubuntu 13.10 kept the standard behavior for french keyboards (both Français and Français (variante) a.k.a French alternative). -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881] Re: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard
I've analysed the use of nbsp(levelX) in all the keyboards defined in /usr/share/X11/xkb Keyboards defining nbsp on level 3: ./symbols/tr:include nbsp(level3) ./symbols/fi:include nbsp(level3) ./symbols/lt:include nbsp(level3) ./symbols/fr:include nbsp(level3) // French (legacy, alternative) ./symbols/no:include nbsp(level3n) ./symbols/ca:include nbsp(level3s) Keyboards defineinf nbsp on level4: ./symbols/fi:include nbsp(level4) ./symbols/fi:include nbsp(level4) ./symbols/fr:include nbsp(level4nl)// The only keyboard using level4nl -- which I think is buggy. What nbsp(levelX) exactly means: nbsp:level2 Non-breakable space character at second level nbsp:level3 Non-breakable space character at third level nbsp:level3s Non-breakable space character at third level, nothing at fourth level nbsp:level3n Non-breakable space character at third level, thin non-breakable space character at fourth level nbsp:level4 Non-breakable space character at fourth level nbsp:level4n Non-breakable space character at fourth level, thin non-breakable space character at sixth level nbsp:level4nlNon-breakable space character at fourth level, thin non-breakable space character at sixth level (via Ctrl+Shift) Broken with RhythmBox We have the following choices after dropping the level4nl (which is the cause of the RhythmBox problem): – using level4n works (I've tested it), but actually I can't produce thin-nbsp as I don't know how to get sixth level. However, fr-oss defines thin-nbsp on AltGr-V. – using level4 might work just like level4n (I can test it). It has the advantage of being in use in finish keyboard (fewer risk of bug). – level3s is in use in Canada, but as you said, some people have complained that it leads to mistyping (I don't agree, but it is only my opinion). If you want nbsp accessible from the space bar, with a slight change for those who use AltGr-Shift-Space to get nbsp, choose level3n. * nsbp on AltGr-Space / thin-nbsp on AltGet-Shift-Space and AltGr-V) If you want a conservative choice, choose level4 (thin-nbsp still available on Alt-Gr V). * nsbp on AltGr-Shift-Space / thin-nbsp on AltGr-V) I prefer the first option, but I won't complain if you choose the conservative one. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881] Re: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard
As stated previously (#9), the problem only appears when activating the 'precise-proposed' package source. However, if it is not solved now, the problem will appear for every user using the French Oss keyboard (that is most of French users). 2012/6/25 Sebastien Bacher seb...@ubuntu.com Hey Bryce, could you look at that bug? I can't confirm the issue there using a fr oss layout on my french precise but maybe it depends of special configs or interactions ** Changed in: xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) Assignee: Canonical Desktop Team (canonical-desktop-team) = Bryce Harrington (bryce) -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881] Re: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard
Yes, I am left handed! So what? Having RCtrl broken is against the tradition of computer keyboards. It is against the philosophy of Ubuntu: computer for people – including left handed, those who are born with two hands, and those who have to type only with one. Letting a bug in Rhythmbox is not a good option too. What does lead to wrongly input nbsp chars if we put it into level 3 instead of level 4? Most of keyboards use level3, except a Finland one which use «include nbsp(level4)», not «include nbsp(level4n)» I think the the support of nbsp(level4n) is broken in X11. And really, removing RCtrl is not an option. 2012/6/26 Sebastien Bacher seb...@ubuntu.com Emmanual: reading the upstream bug we have the choice between - having space input broken in media players (i.e rhythmbox) - having rctrl broken - having a layout that leads to wrongly input nbsp chars neiher of those look to good and I'm not sure what's the best solution, I will need to check what lucid was doing but - the rhythmbox issue was solved at this time (not sure if the fix was already breaking rctrl there) - we really want the rhythmbox issue fixed, so if we have to choice we will pick one of the 2 other bugs - I'm not sure how many users use rctrl, I'm french and I never used it nor saw people around me use ... are you left handed (I'm wondering if that reverses usage and if a lefty would use the right ctrl)? until we get those questions sorted we will stay on the current behaviour which seems the less annoying from the ones listed -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-x-swat] [Bug 1013881] Re: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard
Do you need help from me to solve the problem? Cordially Emmanuel Castro 2012/6/24 Dave Gilbert ubu...@treblig.org High - A problem with an essential hardware component (Keyboard) ** Changed in: xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided = High -- You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu-X, which is subscribed to xkeyboard-config in Ubuntu. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1013881 Title: Right-Ctrl key broken on French OSS keyboard To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/1013881/+subscriptions ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat Post to : ubuntu-x-swat@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
