RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Kipenji, how low can you go ? Now you're even using God to tell your lies ! ...Obote(who unfortunately is not as barbaric as that loving King who ordered the massacre of innocent people) What ? Are you talking about the same Obote or you're just ignoring the bwiino posted here by several people concerning the killings during your hero's regime ? Kasangwawo From: Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:38:15 +0100 (BST) Barbarians brought about what we have come to call Uganda Matyrs.Those poor souls lost their lives because of the barbarians who claimed to be leaders when only they were killers.To this day the blood of those close to 40 innocent lives murdered/massacred/butchered at the behest of the loving king is still hauting the king's people.They are very ready at short notice to wallow in violence and violent acts even at the sheer imagination of one being their enemies.This has apparently assumed a mass paranoia that needs very serious group therapy to enable these Kings people pupate from their Xenophobia. There is thus an urgent need for cleansing before we really get into sober political discourse. On the issue of Nelson Mandela's first travel document,just like the statement that occassioned your response,Mandela himself is the author and so the burden of proof rests with you who would rather not believe because as per your judgement Obote(who unfortunately is not as barbaric as that loving King who ordered the massacre of innocent people) should have authorized such at the risk of annoying the British. Lastly rather than reedem Obote,you look into a mirror and infront of you will be the epitome of barbarism that very much needs redeeming. Thanks and God bless you so that his peace that passes all understanding can be with you and reside in you. Kipenji. = J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: The Fugee Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ough I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a tribal organization -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold? Where did this come from? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability? Is there any doubt that Obote single-handedly set Uganda on the course of decay that it has never recovered from? Where the heck is Mr. Dambisya's promised (threatened?) defense of Obote? Original Message
Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Yaobang, Why do you day dream? Museveni and the NRM govt are in power by popular mandate. The people of Uganda will decide when that mandate will end not you and your cohorts in UPC. I can tell you this but post 2006, Museveni will still be there kiriza oba gana. You better join the NRMo or you will for ever cry foul. UPC with its past records has no chance. LM --- Y Yaobang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Emmanuel, Many of us are now looking beyond Musevenism, defined here as enjoyment to kill at will and for ever in the interest of personal/family wealth and political power. Soon the Museveni dictatoriship will fall, just like Amin's collapsed like a deck of cards in 1979! y From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:41:38 -0500 Netters can we please raise the level of the discourse on this forum? Uganda's future is bigger than the Obotes and Amins of this world. People are wasting time defending the indefensible. The facts, whether we want to believe it or not are that Obote and Amin Presided over some of the most brutal times of Uganda's history and they are responsible for that. So those of you trying to defend their records, do it in vanity, 'cos the facts are there and they are overwhelming, even hitler did some good things for Germany but that does not exonerate him from the crimes that he was responsible for. What Uganda needs is a complete break from that nigtmarish past. For those of you clamouring for democracy, Uganda does not need Obote like democracy or Amin like democracy, what Uganda needs is a new dispensation, with new and positive ideas that will move the country forward. But what we keep getting on this forum is a continual defense of the past wrongs and this coming from those who claim they are for democracy, by association alone such people disqualify themselves. Can't some of you think beyond Obote and Amin? Is Oboteism and Aminism the begining and the end of your philosphy? These two leaders belong to the unfortunate past, it is time to move on. From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:45:17 -0400 As we who were young at those times Did UPC come to power for individuals did everything possible to bring it to power, or because Ugandans elected it? For knowing the answer to that question, one can know the strength of Mwaami Ssemakula's statement, or its you know what!! Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: Ed Kironde To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office . Whatever the case, nothing can alter the fact that Obote massacred Ugandans, just as did Idi Amin. For me this is a sufficient reason to do everything possible under the sun to ensure that the UPC never holds power again in Uganda as we know it today, for they'd do exactly the same thing Obote did the moment they step in the State House. J Ssemakula I commend you for joining the rest of the peace loving Ugandans in ensuring that political party haters, the UPC with their autocracy tendencies, do not sniff at power again in this century. I will also pass over the message to the grandchildren of my grandchildren. So they can tell the grandchildren of their grandchildren too! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003 _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug = LM __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com This service is hosted on the Infocom network
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Mr. Kangwawo: Mr. Kipenji's crass remarks notwithstanding, the issue of the Uganda Martyrs has been debated, and will be debated, for a long time, by people of varying intellectual capital and viewpoints. Unfortunately Uganda's education system does not easily lend itself to preparing the general public to debate such a complex issue competently. Then there are those cynics who seek to trivialize it and will stop at nothing to exploit the tragedy to buttress their various political agendas. As it happens, we have been quite fortunate in that some people have taken the trouble to write books and share their expertise, in quite simple language. This, in addition to technical papers in learned journals. Here is a short list of some of the commonest: Faupel, John Francis, 1962. African holocaust: the story of Uganda Martyrs.New York, P. J. Kenedy Pirouet, Louise. 1969.Strong in the faith; the witness of the Uganda martyrs.Mukono, Church of Uganda Literature Centre Garrett, Samuel McCray. ca. 1974. Case of the Uganda martyrs (1885-1886)Boston, Inter-collegiate Clearing House Kavulu, David. 1969 The Uganda martyrs.Kampala, Longmans of Uganda For the life of me I cannot recall the title of the one that preceeded Fr. Faupel's book, but I think it was written by Black-something or other. An interesting approach to xtian martyrdom was used in: Donald W Riddle 1931 The Martyrs: A Study in Social Control, Chicago, University of Chicago Press. Basically Prof. Riddle examined the psychology and behavior of the martyrs to reach some remarkable conclusions. Riddle looked at the methods by which the early church controlled its members so completely that in many cases they consiciously chose torture and excruciatingly horrible and painful deaths rather than give up membership in the church in the struggle for allegiance between the leaders of the church and leaders of the state. (There is a parallel struggle between leaders of state and leaders of political parties ... or 'religious' sects the world over, cf. Kanungu, Guyana, etc). In the end, the church won. There is also one by Ivo Lesbaupin 1987 Blessed Are The Persecuted: The Early Church Under Seige (Tr. from Portuguese by Robert Barr). London, Spire - Hodder Stroughton Thisone by a former monk, uses more or less a historical approach, do not recall seing reference to Riddle's book, but seem to recall remarkablesimilarity in the behavior of martyrs. This is not so surprising , given that they studied the same people. What is truly remarkable, however, is that Faupel describes some of the very same behavious among the Uganda martyrs: some went to their painful death in high spirits, singing, joyous and all!!! Just like their earlier counterparts in Rome. By the way, early xtians were regarded as pagans by the Romans. I have also seen frequent references to an unpublished manuscript by Fr. Ddiba ca. 1950s (?) Religion in Buganda, whichalso supposedly deals with the same era and issue Mr. Wright dealt with. Speaking of history, we, the Baganda fought at least two civil wars over these foreign religions in the1880s. And there is an excellent book about that is chokeful of well-researched details on that era by an historian. It is: Michael Wright 1971. Buganda in the Heroic Age, Nairobi, Oxford University Press. Generally, the book is about the Mwanga era. If memory serves me right, the author concludes that Mwanga acted according to prevailing custom and law. The law may have been harsh and uninformed by today's standards, but it was the law nonetheless: a point that seems to be totally lost on our current detractors, who for the most part are uni-dimensional, sometimes to thepoint of being just a little more than simpletons. Ssemakula ps: Until a few years ago I did not know didly about the Uganda Martyrs. When I got invited to speak about the subject, I realized how little I knew about it and decided to bone up on the subject. This particular speaking engagement fell though at the very last moment, but it was a great opportunity to get a little insight into our relatively recent history. One does get some appreciation why politicians, especially bad ones, are dying to exploit any real or imagined religious schisms.Original Message Follows From: "jonah kasangwawo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:29:07 + Kipenji, how low can you go ? Now you're even using God to tell your lies ! "...Obote(who unfortunately is not as barbaric as that loving King who ordered the massacre of innocent people)...". What ? Are you talking about the same Obote or you're just ignoring the bwiino posted here by several people concerning the killings during your hero's regime ? Kasangwawo From: Owor Kipenji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret
Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Lutimba Matovu, The are many victims, survivors witness who are still in hiding from M7 and the NRM/A, praying for a time when they are safe to talk AND GET JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS!. They are all over the world, and the longest are from doubt are Baganda. They daily recount the most horrific murders by NRA/M because THEIR PARENTS REFUSED TO GIVE THEM AS CHILDREN TO THE NRA REBELLS, THE WHOLE FAMILY WERE KILLED. HOW MUSEVENI ORDER FATHER TO GIVE THEIR LAND FOR BURYING DEAD BODIES, nOW THE WHOLE FAMILY IS HUNTED NO ONE CAN LIVE ON THE LAND!. MOST VERY TRUMATISE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE SEN AND GONE THROUGH etc etc. If NRA/M thought they never left trial by the destruction, wait till the time comes. Individuals with names and some with photos will scrumble for justice! because they will feel safe to talk without NRA/M tyrants! Not only in Buganda where it all started but Corner Kilak, Acholi, Soroti, Kaberamaido, kanugu to , Rwanda, Congo etc etc. Be prepared you might be call as a witness or even the accused, who knows. It will not be blanket Musevni alone did it because most of the survivors actually knows and was present went the NRA WIPEOUT THEIR FAMILIES. - Original Message - From: Lutimba Matovu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 8:46 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Lisa, Read the facts for yourself what your hero did to Ugandans. The second reign of MILTON OBOTE as President of Uganda (1980-1985) is thought to have even exceeded the brutality of the Amin era. Estimates of civilians killed by Obote's forces in the Luwero triangle around the capital, Kampala, range from 100,000 to 300,000. Prisoners in military custody were systematically tortured. After he was deposed in a May 1985 military coup, he fled and now lives unmolested in Zambia. Human Rights Watch Backgrounder, July 2003 --- Lisa Toro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brother Semakula, Did Obote go to the HRM the queen of England to plead for arms? Before that Buganda had long used guns to gain the Bunyoro Land what later became the lost counties, hence the quest for arms from the queen to gain back the land!!! Yours i pathological!! give it a break, you migh actually go awii with Obotes name playing in your head and mouth!!. Good luck remember the same god is for you and Obote. Toro. - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 5:26 PM Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Mr. Y: It is plain as day that Uganda's troubles today are firmly rooted in Obote's abuse of power and office. It was the UPC and Obote who started Uganda on the path of political murder and state inspired violence against the populace. Until and unless we not only accept that simple but fundamental truth, and throught understand how and why it came to be, we cannot hope to solve our most basic problems as a nation: lack of democratic governance and lack of respect protection of human rights in Uganda. Only when those two things are in place can we meaningfully tackle our second-tier problems of poverty, ignorance, etc. For those reasons, I will not give it a rest. Of course you can always hide your head in the sand as the proverbial ostrich, but reality will not change to accomodate your wishes. Ssemakula --- Y Yaobang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: J Ssemakula, Give it a rest, man! Or are you getting paid to divert attention from what is happening in Uganda right now, as we speak, with: * Dictator Museveni's gunships mowing down innocent Ugandans in a funeral procession in Teso mistaking them for 'rebels'? * Dictator Museveni now manipulating his way to life presidency, sugar-coating it with federo (buying-off gullible Baganda like you)?? Or are you waiting to revise the dictaor's history? y From: J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] gt;Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 From: J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + - Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of
Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Netters can we please raise the level of the discourse on this forum? Uganda's future is bigger than the Obotes and Amins of this world. People are wasting time defending the indefensible. The facts, whether we want to believe it or not are that Obote and Amin Presided over some of the most brutal times of Uganda's history and they are responsible for that. So those of you trying to defend their records, do it in vanity, 'cos the facts are there and they are overwhelming, even hitler did some good things for Germany but that does not exonerate him from the crimes that he was responsible for. What Uganda needs is a complete break from that nigtmarish past. For those of you clamouring for democracy, Uganda does not need Obote like democracy or Amin like democracy, what Uganda needs is a new dispensation, with new and positive ideas that will move the country forward. But what we keep getting on this forum is a continual defense of the past wrongs and this coming from those who claim they are for democracy, by association alone such people disqualify themselves. Can't some of you think beyond Obote and Amin? Is Oboteism and Aminism the begining and the end of your philosphy? These two leaders belong to the unfortunate past, it is time to move on. From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:45:17 -0400 As we who were young at those times Did UPC come to power for individuals did everything possible to bring it to power, or because Ugandans elected it? For knowing the answer to that question, one can know the strength of Mwaami Ssemakula's statement, or its you know what!! Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: Ed Kironde To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office . Whatever the case, nothing can alter the fact that Obote massacred Ugandans, just as did Idi Amin. For me this is a sufficient reason to do everything possible under the sun to ensure that the UPC never holds power again in Uganda as we know it today, for they'd do exactly the same thing Obote did the moment they step in the State House. J Ssemakula I commend you for joining the rest of the peace loving Ugandans in ensuring that political party haters, the UPC with their autocracy tendencies, do not sniff at power again in this century. I will also pass over the message to the grandchildren of my grandchildren. So they can tell the grandchildren of their grandchildren too! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003 _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Emmanuel, Many of us are now looking beyond Musevenism, defined here as enjoyment to kill at will and for ever in the interest of personal/family wealth and political power. Soon the Museveni dictatoriship will fall, just like Amin's collapsed like a deck of cards in 1979! y From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:41:38 -0500 Netters can we please raise the level of the discourse on this forum? Uganda's future is bigger than the Obotes and Amins of this world. People are wasting time defending the indefensible. The facts, whether we want to believe it or not are that Obote and Amin Presided over some of the most brutal times of Uganda's history and they are responsible for that. So those of you trying to defend their records, do it in vanity, 'cos the facts are there and they are overwhelming, even hitler did some good things for Germany but that does not exonerate him from the crimes that he was responsible for. What Uganda needs is a complete break from that nigtmarish past. For those of you clamouring for democracy, Uganda does not need Obote like democracy or Amin like democracy, what Uganda needs is a new dispensation, with new and positive ideas that will move the country forward. But what we keep getting on this forum is a continual defense of the past wrongs and this coming from those who claim they are for democracy, by association alone such people disqualify themselves. Can't some of you think beyond Obote and Amin? Is Oboteism and Aminism the begining and the end of your philosphy? These two leaders belong to the unfortunate past, it is time to move on. From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:45:17 -0400 As we who were young at those times Did UPC come to power for individuals did everything possible to bring it to power, or because Ugandans elected it? For knowing the answer to that question, one can know the strength of Mwaami Ssemakula's statement, or its you know what!! Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: Ed Kironde To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office . Whatever the case, nothing can alter the fact that Obote massacred Ugandans, just as did Idi Amin. For me this is a sufficient reason to do everything possible under the sun to ensure that the UPC never holds power again in Uganda as we know it today, for they'd do exactly the same thing Obote did the moment they step in the State House. J Ssemakula I commend you for joining the rest of the peace loving Ugandans in ensuring that political party haters, the UPC with their autocracy tendencies, do not sniff at power again in this century. I will also pass over the message to the grandchildren of my grandchildren. So they can tell the grandchildren of their grandchildren too! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003 _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Yaobang you have just rightly stated it.People like the Ssemakulas of this world are trying to divert attention from what their benevolent government under Mu7 has been and is doing to Ugandans since 1981 hence his rantings about not forgetting the Luwero Trapezium. I personally feel based on the type of discourse he and his ilk are engaged in,I will cease any discussions of the type with him because we appear to be at different orbitals in addressing the biggest issues that is destroying Uganda by courtsey of the Baganda through Mu7. Thanks. Kipenji. ===Y Yaobang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: J Ssemakula,Give it a rest, man!Or are you getting paid to divert attention from what is happening in Uganda right now, as we speak, with:* Dictator Museveni's gunships mowing down innocent Ugandans in a funeral procession in Teso "mistaking" them for 'rebels'?* Dictator Museveni now manipulating his way to life presidency, sugar-coating it with federo (buying-off gullible Baganda like you)??Or are you waiting to revise the dictaor's history?yFrom: "J Ssemakula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of OfficeDate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 +_The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 From: "J Ssemakula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of OfficeDate: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ough I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS "Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a "tribal organization" -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold?" Where did this come from?-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability? Is there any doubt that Obote single-handedly set Uganda on the course of decay that it has never recovered from? Where the heck is Mr. Dambisya's promised (threatened?) defense of Obote? Original Message Follows From: "J Ssemakula" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:15:51 + MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
If you have already gone 6 miles to get the truth why on God's good earth stop instead of going the full 9 miles and get that which you have already set out to prove?. I hope you are not being intellectually dishonest and now you want to acquire knowledge passively. Thanks.Kipenji. Ed Kironde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mulindwa and all This is in reference to Obote giving Mandela a passport as alleged or stated as fact. I am asking these questions just to learn, not refuting the allegation. Having said that, Obote, I believe gave Mandela a passport in his capacity as Prime Minister of Uganda, Mandela was accused on two counts, that of inciting persons to strike illegally (during the 1961 stay-at-home) and that of leaving the country without a valid passport. Mandelas trial started when Obote was in office for one week [from October 15 to November 7th 1962, when Mandela was sentenced to 3 years]. The reason I am asking, Mandela also mentions Obote (as Ugandan Prime Minister) among a number of African leaders he met, and mentions Kaunda, Oginga Odinga and Joshua Nkomo as distinguished African nationalists. Here is the question: When did Obote give Mandela the passport [and I thank him for that] and if he traveled through other African States, of which he says that they were showered with hospitality and assured of solid support, was newly independent Uganda the only one with relaxed immigration rules? Mwai Kibaki, as a young Kikuyu, the Kenyan government could not give him a passport, the Ugandan government, not an individual like in Mandelas case, gave him a travel document to pursue studies in England. I seek to be educated on this one. I will give a link to anyone interested in Mandelas first court statement ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Mr. Y: It is plain as day that Uganda's troubles today are firmly rooted in Obote's abuse of power and office. It was the UPC and Obote who startedUganda on the path of political murder and state inspired violence against the populace. Until and unless wenot only accept that simple but fundamental truth, and throught understand how and why it came to be, we cannot hope to solve our most basic problems as a nation: lack of democratic governance and lack of respect protection of human rights in Uganda. Only when those two things are in place can we meaningfully tackle our second-tier problems of poverty, ignorance, etc. For those reasons, I will not "give it a rest". Of course you can always hide your head in the sand as the proverbial ostrich, but reality will not change to accomodate your wishes. Ssemakula --- Y Yaobang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: J Ssemakula, Give it a rest, man! Or are you getting paid to divert attention from what is happening in Uganda right now, as we speak, with: * Dictator Museveni's gunships mowing down innocent Ugandans in a funeral procession in Teso "mistaking" them for 'rebels'? * Dictator Museveni now manipulating his way to life presidency, sugar-coating it with federo (buying-off gullible Baganda like you)?? Or are you waiting to revise the dictaor's history? y From: "J Ssemakula" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] & gt;Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 From: "J Ssemakula" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + -Mr. Kipenji,Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r t he bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ou gh I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS "Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a "tribal organization" -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold?" Where did this come from?-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability? Is there any doubt that Obote single-handedly set Uganda on the course of decay that it has never recovered from? Where the heck is Mr. Dambisya's promised (threatened?) defense of Obote? Original Message Follows From: "J Ssemakula" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Mark these words: We appear to be at different orbitals in addressing the biggest issues that is destroying Uganda by courtesy of the Baganda through Mu7. Thanks. Kipenji. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003
Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Lisa, Read the facts for yourself what your hero did to Ugandans. The second reign of MILTON OBOTE as President of Uganda (1980-1985) is thought to have even exceeded the brutality of the Amin era. Estimates of civilians killed by Obote's forces in the Luwero triangle around the capital, Kampala, range from 100,000 to 300,000. Prisoners in military custody were systematically tortured. After he was deposed in a May 1985 military coup, he fled and now lives unmolested in Zambia. Human Rights Watch Backgrounder, July 2003 --- Lisa Toro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brother Semakula, Did Obote go to the HRM the queen of England to plead for arms? Before that Buganda had long used guns to gain the Bunyoro Land what later became the lost counties, hence the quest for arms from the queen to gain back the land!!! Yours i pathological!! give it a break, you migh actually go awii with Obotes name playing in your head and mouth!!. Good luck remember the same god is for you and Obote. Toro. - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 5:26 PM Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Mr. Y: It is plain as day that Uganda's troubles today are firmly rooted in Obote's abuse of power and office. It was the UPC and Obote who started Uganda on the path of political murder and state inspired violence against the populace. Until and unless we not only accept that simple but fundamental truth, and throught understand how and why it came to be, we cannot hope to solve our most basic problems as a nation: lack of democratic governance and lack of respect protection of human rights in Uganda. Only when those two things are in place can we meaningfully tackle our second-tier problems of poverty, ignorance, etc. For those reasons, I will not give it a rest. Of course you can always hide your head in the sand as the proverbial ostrich, but reality will not change to accomodate your wishes. Ssemakula --- Y Yaobang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: J Ssemakula, Give it a rest, man! Or are you getting paid to divert attention from what is happening in Uganda right now, as we speak, with: * Dictator Museveni's gunships mowing down innocent Ugandans in a funeral procession in Teso mistaking them for 'rebels'? * Dictator Museveni now manipulating his way to life presidency, sugar-coating it with federo (buying-off gullible Baganda like you)?? Or are you waiting to revise the dictaor's history? y From: J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] gt;Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 From: J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + - Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r t he bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: The Fugee Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone,
Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Brother Semakula, Did Obote go to the HRM the queen of England to plead for arms? Before that Buganda had long used guns to gain the Bunyoro Land what later became the lost counties, hence the quest for armsfrom the queen to gain back the land!!! Yours i pathological!! give it a break, you migh actually go awii with Obotes name playing in your head and mouth!!. Good luck remember the same god is for you and Obote. Toro. - Original Message - From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 5:26 PM Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Mr. Y: It is plain as day that Uganda's troubles today are firmly rooted in Obote's abuse of power and office. It was the UPC and Obote who startedUganda on the path of political murder and state inspired violence against the populace. Until and unless wenot only accept that simple but fundamental truth, and throught understand how and why it came to be, we cannot hope to solve our most basic problems as a nation: lack of democratic governance and lack of respect protection of human rights in Uganda. Only when those two things are in place can we meaningfully tackle our second-tier problems of poverty, ignorance, etc. For those reasons, I will not "give it a rest". Of course you can always hide your head in the sand as the proverbial ostrich, but reality will not change to accomodate your wishes. Ssemakula --- Y Yaobang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: J Ssemakula, Give it a rest, man! Or are you getting paid to divert attention from what is happening in Uganda right now, as we speak, with: * Dictator Museveni's gunships mowing down innocent Ugandans in a funeral procession in Teso "mistaking" them for 'rebels'? * Dictator Museveni now manipulating his way to life presidency, sugar-coating it with federo (buying-off gullible Baganda like you)?? Or are you waiting to revise the dictaor's history? y From: "J Ssemakula" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] gt;Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 From: "J Ssemakula" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + -Mr. Kipenji,Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r t he bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ou gh I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS "Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a "tribal organization" -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Mr. Kipenji, Are you insinuating that the Baganda somehow control Museveni? If so exactly how are we doing this? Why is it so hard for you UPC chaps to accept your responsibility in destroying Uganda? Conversely, why is it impossible for you to recognize Obote's culpability when it is plain to everyone else? Do you simply lack honesty or moral fiber to distinguish righ from wrong? Whatever the case, nothing can alter the fact that Obote massacred Ugandans, just as did Idi Amin. For me this is a sufficient reason to do everything possible under the sun to ensure that the UPC never holds power again in Uganda aswe know it today, for they'd do exactly the same thing Obote did the moment they step in the State House. Original Message Follows From: Owor Kipenji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:28:29 +0100 (BST) Yaobang you have just rightly stated it.People like the Ssemakulas of this world are trying to divert attention from what their benevolent government under Mu7 has been and is doing to Ugandans since 1981 hence his rantings about not forgetting the Luwero Trapezium. I personally feel based on the type of discourse he and his ilk are engaged in,I will cease any discussions of the type with him because we appear to be at different orbitals in addressing the biggest issues that is destroying Uganda by courtsey of the Baganda through Mu7. Thanks. Kipenji. === Y Yaobang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: J Ssemakula, Give it a rest, man! Or are you getting paid to divert attention from what is happening in Uganda right now, as we speak, with: * Dictator Museveni's gunships mowing down innocent Ugandans in a funeral procession in Teso "mistaking" them for 'rebels'? * Dictator Museveni now manipulating his way to life presidency, sugar-coating it with federo (buying-off gullible Baganda like you)?? Or are you waiting to revise the dictaor's history? y From: "J Ssemakula" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 From: "J Ssemakula" To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ough I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS "Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a "tribal organization" -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
we appear to be at different orbitals in addressing the biggest issues that is destroying Uganda by courtsey of the Baganda through Mu7. This blanket statement about Baganda is neither true nor fair. A 'few' of us Baganda have always disassociated ourselves from this mu7 monster, and have paid very dearly for such a stand. If , say, an Acholi NewVision columnist is a mu7 ass-kisser are we also to blame that on Acholis? Mitayo Potosi From: Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:28:29 +0100 (BST) Yaobang you have just rightly stated it.People like the Ssemakulas of this world are trying to divert attention from what their benevolent government under Mu7 has been and is doing to Ugandans since 1981 hence his rantings about not forgetting the Luwero Trapezium. I personally feel based on the type of discourse he and his ilk are engaged in,I will cease any discussions of the type with him because we appear to be at different orbitals in addressing the biggest issues that is destroying Uganda by courtsey of the Baganda through Mu7. Thanks. Kipenji. === Y Yaobang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: J Ssemakula, Give it a rest, man! Or are you getting paid to divert attention from what is happening in Uganda right now, as we speak, with: * Dictator Museveni's gunships mowing down innocent Ugandans in a funeral procession in Teso mistaking them for 'rebels'? * Dictator Museveni now manipulating his way to life presidency, sugar-coating it with federo (buying-off gullible Baganda like you)?? Or are you waiting to revise the dictaor's history? y From: J Ssemakula Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 From: J Ssemakula To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: The Fugee Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ough I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a tribal organization -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold? Where did this come from? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability?
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
If, say, an Acholi NewVision columnist is a mu7 ass-kisser are we also to blame that on Acholis? Mitayo Potosi That might be a wakeup call, even if one is an Acholi ass-kisser, (you know who) and you are a Muganda, you're in cahoots with Museveni - most do believe! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
. Whatever the case, nothing can alter the fact that Obote massacred Ugandans, just as did Idi Amin. For me this is a sufficient reason to do everything possible under the sun to ensure that the UPC never holds power again in Uganda as we know it today, for they'd do exactly the same thing Obote did the moment they step in the State House. J Ssemakula I commend you for joining the rest of the peace loving Ugandans in ensuring that political party haters, the UPC with their autocracy tendencies, do not sniff at power again in this century. I will also pass over the message to the grandchildren of my grandchildren. So they can tell the grandchildren of their grandchildren too! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Ed Kironde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "If, say, an Acholi NewVision columnist is a mu7 ass-kisser are we alsoto blame that on Acholis?"Mitayo PotosiThat might be a wakeup call, even if one is an Acholi ass-kisser, (youknow who) and you are a Muganda, you're in cahoots with Museveni - mostdo believe! ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003This service is hosted on the Infocom networkhttp://www.infocom.co.ug Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. ===J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As for the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Though I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS "Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a "tribal organization" -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold?" Where did this come from? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability? Is there any doubt that Obote single-handedly set Uganda on the course of decay that it has never recovered from? Where the heck is Mr. Dambisya's promised (threatened?) defense of Obote? Original Message Follows From: "J Ssemakula" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:15:51 + _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ugWant to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ough I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS "Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a "tribal organization" -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold?" Where did this come from?-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability? Is there any doubt that Obote single-handedly set Uganda on the course of decay that it has never recovered from? Where the heck is Mr. Dambisya's promised (threatened?) defense of Obote? Original Message Follows From: "J Ssemakula" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:15:51 + MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Barbarians brought about what we have come to call Uganda Matyrs.Those poor souls lost their lives because of the barbarians who claimed to be leaders when only they were killers.To this day the blood of those close to 40 innocent lives murdered/massacred/butchered at the behest of the loving king is still hauting the king's people.They are very ready at short notice to wallow in violence and violent acts even at the sheer imagination of one being their enemies.This has apparently assumed a mass paranoia that needs very serious group therapy to enable these Kings people pupate from their Xenophobia. There is thus an urgent need for cleansing before we really get into sober political discourse. On the issue of Nelson Mandela's first travel document,just like the statement that occassioned your response,Mandela himself is the author and so the burden of proof rests with you who would rather not believe because as per your judgement Obote(who unfortunately is not as barbaric as that loving King who ordered the massacre of innocent people) should have authorized such at the risk of annoying the British. Lastly rather than reedem Obote,you look into a mirror and infront of you will be the epitome of barbarism that very much needs redeeming. Thanks and God bless you so that his peace that passes all understanding can be with you and reside in you. Kipenji. =J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ough I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS "Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a "tribal organization" -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold?" Where did this come from?-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability? Is there any doubt that Obote single-handedly set Uganda on the course of decay that it has never recovered from? Where the heck is Mr. Dambisya's promised (threatened?) defense of Obote? Original Message Follows From: "J Ssemakula" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:15:51 + MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ugWant to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Mulindwa and all This is in reference to Obote giving Mandela a passport as alleged or stated as fact. I am asking these questions just to learn, not refuting the allegation. Having said that, Obote, I believe gave Mandela a passport in his capacity as Prime Minister of Uganda, Mandela was accused on two counts, that of inciting persons to strike illegally (during the 1961 stay-at-home) and that of leaving the country without a valid passport. Mandelas trial started when Obote was in office for one week [from October 15 to November 7th 1962, when Mandela was sentenced to 3 years]. The reason I am asking, Mandela also mentions Obote (as Ugandan Prime Minister) among a number of African leaders he met, and mentions Kaunda, Oginga Odinga and Joshua Nkomo as distinguished African nationalists. Here is the question: When did Obote give Mandela the passport [and I thank him for that] and if he traveled through other African States, of which he says that they were showered with hospitality and assured of solid support, was newly independent Uganda the only one with relaxed immigration rules? Mwai Kibaki, as a young Kikuyu, the Kenyan government could not give him a passport, the Ugandan government, not an individual like in Mandelas case, gave him a travel document to pursue studies in England. I seek to be educated on this one. I will give a link to anyone interested in Mandelas first court statement --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Mr. Kipenji: Your puny attempts to transplant moral standards and norms from one era to another notwithstanding, it is an indisputable fact that Obote is a mass murderer, quite on par with Idi Amin. In Obote I, at least 10,000 Ugandans -- mostly Baganda -- were killed by his government. In Obote II, Obote murdered at least 300,000 Ugandans. We cannot, have never and will never forget the horrors of "Luweero Triangle". It is Obote who brought concentration camps to Uganda. It was Obote who instituted random killings to terrorize the population. One of his lasting dark legacies in Uganda is the term "Panda Gari". For documentary proof consult a report written by an organization called The Minority Rights Group. It is report no. 66 and is entitled Uganda and Sudan: North and South, published in London, 1984. It is one of the very many sad writing that document Obote's murderous brutality. Helleagerly awaitsObote, just as it did his protege, one Idi Amin. As for the alleged passport, it is clear that you have no evidence of it, otherwise you'd have produced it. And no, the burden of proof cannot rest with me -- unless you do not understand that concept at all. Nonetheless, I give you one more chance to give us the precise citation (like I have done with the The Minority Rights Group report), where Mandela wrote something to that effect. If you do not have it, do not chew up valuable bandwidth with content-free verbiage. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barbarians brought about what we have come to call Uganda Matyrs.Those poor souls lost their lives because of the barbarians who claimed to be leaders when only they were killers. To this day the blood of those close to 40 innocent lives urdered/massacred/butchered at the behest of the loving king is still hauting the king's people.They are very ready at short notice to wallow in violence and violent acts even at the sheer imagination of one being their enemies.This has apparently assumed a mass paranoia that needs very serious group therapy to enable these Kings people pupate from their Xenophobia. There is thus an urgent need for cleansing before we really get into sober political discourse. On the issue of Nelson Mandela's first travel document,just like the statement that occassioned your response,Mandela himself is the author and so the burden of proof rests with you who would rather not believe because as per your judgement Obote(who unfortunately is not as barbaric as that loving King who ordered the massacre of innocent people) should have authorized such at the risk of annoying the British. Lastly rather than reedem Obote,you look into a mirror and infront of you will be the epitome of barbarism that very much needs redeeming. Thanks and God bless you so that his peace that passes all understanding can be with you and reside in you. Kipenji.= J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. ===J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Mr. Fugee,I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. --- -Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ough I must confess that I have seriously ; thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
J Ssemakula, Give it a rest, man! Or are you getting paid to divert attention from what is happening in Uganda right now, as we speak, with: * Dictator Museveni's gunships mowing down innocent Ugandans in a funeral procession in Teso mistaking them for 'rebels'? * Dictator Museveni now manipulating his way to life presidency, sugar-coating it with federo (buying-off gullible Baganda like you)?? Or are you waiting to revise the dictaor's history? y From: J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:50:42 + _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ---BeginMessage--- Mr. Kipenji, Provide facts: if you have any credible documentation about Obote providing Mandela with a passport by all means provide it, instead of grand-standing. However, even if it were true, I fail to see how this would redeem that barbarian. --- Owor Kipenji [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwaami Ssemakula,did Nelson Mandela also state that the first travel document(Passport) that he used to travel outside South Africa et Africa was a Ugandan passport that was recommended by this samesome Obote?. Lets always talk facts not figments of our imaginations that obscure whatever we really want to say for we are wont to expose our rabid loathe of someone. Thanks. Kipenji. === J Ssemakula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As fo r the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Th ough I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS "Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a "tribal organization" -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold?" Where did this come from?-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability? Is there any doubt that Obote single-handedly set Uganda on the course of decay that it has never recovered from? Where the heck is Mr. Dambisya's promised (threatened?) defense of Obote? Original Message Follows From: "J Ssemakula" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:15:51 + MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug ---End Message---
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Mr. Fugee, I see that you have no substantive rebuttal to Mr. Ibingira's expose' of Obote as a conniving power-hungry megalomaniac. As for the bit about Obote's attempts to bar the ANC from the OAU's pre-cursor, it is from an impeachabe source: Mr. Mandela himself. Original Message Follows From: "The Fugee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:33:52 +0200 Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Though I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingira's writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS "Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a "tribal organization" -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold?" Where did this come from? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability? Is there any doubt that Obote single-handedly set Uganda on the course of decay that it has never recovered from? Where the heck is Mr. Dambisya's promised (threatened?) defense of Obote? Original Message Follows From: "J Ssemakula" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:15:51 + _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Futher Evidence: U.A stands for Uganda Argus and the year is 1967 1 Turning to civil liberties, our rights could be suspended summarily under the proposals and there was no recourse to the courts to find out why they had been suspended. This was the biggest indication of autocracy. The members were giving the President power to appoint everybody, dismiss everybody, nominate one third of the Parliament and detain them in the bargain Mr. Nekyon said the proposals provided for an autocracy or an African-type of democracy. Which prevailed would depend on the person who held the office of President. The concentration of powers in one person was not completely justified. Some of the powers given to the President were excessive. There should be a balance between the office of President and the judiciary, and the system of Parliament. A.A. NEKYON (UPC, Lango S.E.) U.A. 30th June 2 What a shame that Members of Parliament should be asked by our President to give him powers to detain us and after he had done so to give him powers not to be taken to a court of law. J. W. KIWANUKA (UPC, Mubende N.) U.A. 14th July 3 He had also suggested in 1963 that if people attempted to cause trouble in the country a detention act should be passed to deal with them. (He said) Today lam very happy that the Government has seen fit to bring about my dream. I am happy that it is now going to not be only my idea but the idea of the entire nation. Mr. Lakidi hoped all Members would support it. It had not been introduced lightly by the Government, but only after a lot of thought. The Government had been thinking about it since 1963. If we had in the 1962 Constitution a section about a detention act in it I am sure Sir Edward Mutesa would be still here today. I embrace this article (on detention) as mine, because I was the first person to come out with it. E. Y. LAKIDI (Min. of State, Public Serv. and Cab. Affairs) U.A. 15th July 4 Discussing the Opposition's proposal that there should be recognition of the post of Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Katiti, asked where was the Opposition. They were not significantly represented in the House. Mr. Okelo informed the House that an effective Opposition did not depend on numbers alone. Although they were few, they had saved the country from catastrophe on more than one occasion. On another point of information, Mr. Shafiq Arain (UPC Specially Elected) said there was also the question of how seriously the Opposition took their responsibility. Instead of being in the House to discuss the proposals, the named Leader of the Opposition was away in America attending some schoolboy seminar. The Minister of Defence, Mr. Felix Onama, added that the Opposition had not contributed constructively to the affairs of the nation. They had merely opposed for the sake of opposing. Resuming, the Minister thanked Government speakers for their information. C. B. KATITI (Minister of Cult. Comm. Dev.) U.A. 19th July --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003
RE: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office
Ssemakula, Many of us have decided to leave you to your rabid hatred of Obote. You seem to be so confused by your hatred that you would absolve everyone, including yourself, of any responsibility in ensuring that Ugandans and Uganda gets what it truly deserves. As such I find it very difficult to even begin to discuss or debate any matter as you have concluded where all blame should lie. Though I must confess that I have seriously thought about tackling an issue raised by you through Ibingiras writings and time willing I may still do so. The real question is: What have you done and what are you doing for a truly democratic Uganda where all citizens have and can enjoy their God given personal to holder fundamental human rights and freedoms? The Fugee PS Why did he try to have Mandela and the ANC -- which he termed a tribal organization -- banned from attending the OAU's precursor meeting in Addis Ababa? Who were/are Obote's masters whose interests he worked so hard to uphold? Where did this come from? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J Ssemakula Sent: 15 August 2003 21:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Is it safe to assume that even the UPC zealots have finally seen the light that power-hungry megalomaniacal Obote was and is a liability? Is there any doubt that Obote single-handedly set Uganda on the course of decay that it has never recovered from? Where the heck is Mr. Dambisya's promised (threatened?) defense of Obote? Original Message Follows From: J Ssemakula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Ibingira on Obote's Secret Wars and Abuse of Office Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:15:51 + Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
