Re: [uknof] Virginmedia

[Julian Harse]

Hi all

Thanks for your responses. I suspected it would be a longshot, but I figured it 
was worth asking anyway.

The discussion has been informative.

Julian


-Original Message-
From: uknof [mailto:uknof-boun...@lists.uknof.org.uk] On Behalf Of Mark Tinka
Sent: 06 May 2016 07:51
To: Edward Dore ; Tom Hill 
; UKNOF 
Subject: Re: [uknof] Virginmedia



On 5/May/16 20:50, Edward Dore wrote:

>
>
> The person that we eventually spoke with at VM seemed genuinely sorry
> that they had such a restrictive policy, so presumably this is coming
> from management and not the techs.

In general, restrictive peering tends to come from the Product and Sales teams 
of a business, these days.

But you do get a number of engineers that are "proud" of their restrictive 
peering as well. To get you off their back, they'll send you to or blame their 
commercial team.

Mark.


Kind Regards,
Julian Harse

IT Compliance Officer

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Re: [uknof] Virginmedia - observation

[Nick Hilliard]

wand...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> how did netflix and google learn
> that his PI space has a direct route to VM, obviously you could pick it
> up from the BGP tables, but are they really looking?

yes, they actively look for better paths (lower latency + packet loss).
 Mostly this is related to the path between the nearest CDN node and the
DNS resolver that the end user is using.  For this reason, it's a good
idea to use in-house DNS resolvers for customer and it's a bad idea to
have customers use 8.8.8.8, opendns and other public servers.

If the BGP network you're talking about is concerned by the cost of
doing this over VM / the tier2, they should look at whether a connection
to an IXP would reduce their costs.

Nick

Re: [uknof] Virginmedia - observation

[Ben Agricola]

https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/network-configuration/

Doesn’t cover everything but does give a good indication as to how the traffic 
redirection for Netflix’s content servers works.

Ben.

> On 6 May 2016, at 09:38, wand...@yahoo.co.uk  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, Speaking of Virgin media, observed something odd the other day, 
> wonder if anyone can spread any light on it, a BGP network with its own AS 
> and PI space has a connection to Virgin Media which they pay for, and use as 
> a backup. They have a bigger connection to a Tier-2 also paid for transit, 
> used for most of their traffic. They observed that a large amount of youtube 
> and netflix traffic was going to VM, which was not desirable I checked the 
> routing and actually Netflix and Google was preferred via the bigger 
> connection not VM.
> 
> The reason the traffic was coming in from VM is, that when people are using 
> his PI IP's and connect to youtube or netflix, it seems 70% of the time, the 
> media IP (when the content starts) is from VM PA space, not Netflix or google 
> IP's. I might expect this if I requested the content from VM PA space, but 
> not on PI, and how did netflix and google learn that his PI space has a 
> direct route to VM, obviously you could pick it up from the BGP tables, but 
> are they really looking?
> 
> Massive coincidence or is their some intelligence going on here?
> 
> W
> 




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Re: [uknof] Virginmedia - observation

[Jody Botham]

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 10:41 AM wand...@yahoo.co.uk 
wrote:

> Massive coincidence or is their some intelligence going on here?
>
>
I'd expect that Virgin host Google/Netflix caches in their network and are
advertising the PI space to them (the caches use BGP as the mechanism for
signalling what prefixes should be serviced by the cache which
Google/Netflix then hand out to the relevant client(s) when they're
accessing media).  If it's not desired then Virgin should be able to stop
advertising the PI prefix(es) to the caches in question.
-- 
Jody Botham
Network Architect

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[uknof] Virginmedia - observation

[wand...@yahoo.co.uk]

Hi all, Speaking of Virgin media, observed something odd the other day, wonder 
if anyone can spread any light on it, a BGP network with its own AS and PI 
space has a connection to Virgin Media which they pay for, and use as a backup. 
They have a bigger connection to a Tier-2 also paid for transit, used for most 
of their traffic. They observed that a large amount of youtube and netflix 
traffic was going to VM, which was not desirable I checked the routing and 
actually Netflix and Google was preferred via the bigger connection not VM.
The reason the traffic was coming in from VM is, that when people are using his 
PI IP's and connect to youtube or netflix, it seems 70% of the time, the media 
IP (when the content starts) is from VM PA space, not Netflix or google IP's. I 
might expect this if I requested the content from VM PA space, but not on PI, 
and how did netflix and google learn that his PI space has a direct route to 
VM, obviously you could pick it up from the BGP tables, but are they really 
looking?
Massive coincidence or is their some intelligence going on here?
W

Re: [uknof] Virginmedia

[Mark Tinka]

On 5/May/16 20:50, Edward Dore wrote:

>
>
> The person that we eventually spoke with at VM seemed genuinely sorry
> that they had such a restrictive policy, so presumably this is coming
> from management and not the techs.

In general, restrictive peering tends to come from the Product and Sales
teams of a business, these days.

But you do get a number of engineers that are "proud" of their
restrictive peering as well. To get you off their back, they'll send you
to or blame their commercial team.

Mark.



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