Re: [uknof] EFM DSLAM recommendations/costs

2013-01-28 Thread Robin Williams

+1 for Hatteras (now Overture) from me.

We conducted pretty extensive lab and real-world deployment trials of 
Hatteras, Actelis  Zhone EFM kit and Hatteras came out on top in most 
areas (disclaimer, this was a couple of years ago and I've not 
re-trailed since).  Nice stacking features - copper pairs can load 
balance across different stack members for redundancy.  
Auto-provisioning is nice and easy.  CLI is fairly Cisco-esqe and easy 
to merge into a rancid style backup situation, and there is also a 
decent web-frontend when it's needed.  Actelis, at least when we 
trialled it, relied on a piece of Windows software primarily which could 
be frustrating but the kit itself was solid (has this changed?)


Similar to Ben we also found that the Zhone CLI could be frustrating, 
but worth noting that the right Zhone chassis can be deployed as more of 
an MSAN with EFM/ADSL cards in the same chassis so depends on your 
requirements.


Cheers,

--
*Robin Williams*
*TNP - The Networking People.*
Infolab21, Lancaster University, Lancaster. LA1 4WA

DDI: +44 (0)1524 510198
Email: robin.willi...@tnp.net.uk mailto:robin.willi...@tnp.net.uk
Web: http://www.tnp.net.uk/

*
The Networking People (NorthWest) Limited. Registered office: c/o 
Hanleys, Spring Court, Hale, Cheshire, WA14 2UQ. Registered in England  
Wales with company number: 07667393





On 25/01/13 14:38, Charlie Boisseau wrote:

Ben,

We're not doing ADSL, but we are in the process of rolling out 
(proper) EFM services.  We're using the very excellent Hatteras (now 
Overture Networks) HN4000 units.  They individual units have 40 pairs 
each, however they stack together; up to 5 units per stack (200 pairs).


They do some really nice stuff like E-LAN and E-TREE across different 
pair bonding groups as well as the usual E-LINE type setup.  This 
allows you to do localised L2VPNs from a single exchange without using 
resources on a VPLS or similar type aggregation device.


The kit is really solid - I'd recommend it.  Way better than the RAD 
boxes you get given with TTB circuits, and even better than 
the Actellis EFM equipment, which was our second choice.  Overture 
have a really decent presales team too.  They loaned us kit for ages 
to play with, as well as sending their UK technical guys up to see us 
for a full day of demos.


Let me know if you need a contact at Overture.

If anyone else has experience with ADSL/VDSL DSLAMs - I'd be 
interested to hear your thoughts on what's available.  We're looking 
at doing a sub-loop unbundling project - so it needs to be hardened; 
living in a street-side cabinet in the cold Scottish weather!!


Thanks,

Charlie

--
*Charlie Boisseau*

Fluency Communications Ltd.
*e.*char...@fluency.net.uk mailto:char...@fluency.net.uk
*w.*http://fluency.net.uk/
*t.*0845 874 7000

This Email and files transmitted with it are confidential and are 
intended for the sole use of the individual or organisation addressed. 
If you have received this Email in error please notify the sender 
immediately and delete it without using, copying, storing, forwarding 
or disclosing its contents to any other person While Fluency has 
endeavoured to ensure that any attachments do not contain viruses it 
will not be liable for any losses incurred by the recipient. Fluency 
Communications Ltd. Registered in Scotland. Company Number: 
SC390685. Registered Office Address: 1 Broughton Market, Edinburgh, 
EH3 6NU


On 25 Jan 2013, at 13:27, Ben Ward b...@crouchingbadger.com 
mailto:b...@crouchingbadger.com wrote:



Hi again all,

Apologies for those who I missed by not going to UKNOF last week. 
Since the baby arrived life has become more small smells than small 
cells. Anyway, after such a great response to my LNS/L2TP questions 
last time, I thought I'd ask people's opinions on DSLAMs.


I'm looking for low-cost, fairly dumb ADSL/EFM DSLAMs, data only, 
capable of user-side VLANs.  Some of the 24-port 1u devices look 
suitable, but I'd be interested in chassis too.


We have a number of Zhone MXK319s already deployed. The early days of 
deploying them were rage-filled with an inconsistent cli, off-by-one 
bugs and their occasionally forgetting how to do switching, but as 
long as you don't touch them them they just sit there.


Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks
Ben

--
b...@crouchingbadger.com mailto:b...@crouchingbadger.com | 
http://www.crouchingbadger.com http://www.crouchingbadger.com/







Re: [uknof] EFM DSLAM recommendations/costs

2013-01-25 Thread Simon Lockhart
On Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:27:06PM +, Ben Ward wrote:
 I'm looking for low-cost, fairly dumb ADSL/EFM DSLAMs, data only, capable
 of user-side VLANs.  Some of the 24-port 1u devices look suitable, but I'd
 be interested in chassis too.

Interesting timing, because I'm going through exactly the same investigation
at the moment, althrough more on the ADSL than the EFM side.
 
 We have a number of Zhone MXK319s already deployed. The early days of
 deploying them were rage-filled with an inconsistent cli, off-by-one bugs
 and their occasionally forgetting how to do switching, but as long as you
 don't touch them them they just sit there.

I had a long discussion with Zhone's recommended reseller in the UK (The Kenton
Group) this morning. They have pointed me at both the MXK-319, and also their
1U 48 port boxes (DSL/Voice only) - MX-150 and MXP-150. On the EFM side, they
also recommended the Actelis Networks products.

http://www.microtel.co.uk/products/?cat=69

One thing which did surprise me is that the MXK-319 (even when fully populated
with 72 port ADSL2+ cards) works out more expensive per port than the MX-150.
Okay, you have a slightly lower support overhead with having thing in one 
chassis with one management interface, but I can work around that when we do
the integration into our OSS/BSS backend systems.

I was also looking at the Zyxel products (as mentioned by Neil) - they have
comparable products to the Zhone ones - IES-1248 for a 1U 48 port DSLAM/MSAN,
and the IES-5000 for a chassis based solution, which has a similar range of
linecard option to the Zhone (including ADSL2+ and SHDSL/EFM). I've not yet
managed to speak to Zyxel or a reseller about these yet (any recommended 
sales contacts?). Based on pricing found via google, the Zhone and Zyxel are
a similar price point.

The bloke from Kenton Group that I spoke to wasn't particularly complimentary
about the Zyxel products (but then, he was trying to sell me the Zhone stuff).

Simon



Re: [uknof] EFM DSLAM recommendations/costs

2013-01-25 Thread Neil J. McRae
So I deployed actelis at colt - excellent box with great manageability - at BT 
we use Hatteras which also works well.

Neil 

Sent from my iPhone

On 25 Jan 2013, at 15:58, Simon Lockhart si...@slimey.org wrote:

 On Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:27:06PM +, Ben Ward wrote:
 I'm looking for low-cost, fairly dumb ADSL/EFM DSLAMs, data only, capable
 of user-side VLANs.  Some of the 24-port 1u devices look suitable, but I'd
 be interested in chassis too.
 
 Interesting timing, because I'm going through exactly the same investigation
 at the moment, althrough more on the ADSL than the EFM side.
 
 We have a number of Zhone MXK319s already deployed. The early days of
 deploying them were rage-filled with an inconsistent cli, off-by-one bugs
 and their occasionally forgetting how to do switching, but as long as you
 don't touch them them they just sit there.
 
 I had a long discussion with Zhone's recommended reseller in the UK (The 
 Kenton
 Group) this morning. They have pointed me at both the MXK-319, and also their
 1U 48 port boxes (DSL/Voice only) - MX-150 and MXP-150. On the EFM side, they
 also recommended the Actelis Networks products.
 
http://www.microtel.co.uk/products/?cat=69
 
 One thing which did surprise me is that the MXK-319 (even when fully populated
 with 72 port ADSL2+ cards) works out more expensive per port than the MX-150.
 Okay, you have a slightly lower support overhead with having thing in one 
 chassis with one management interface, but I can work around that when we do
 the integration into our OSS/BSS backend systems.
 
 I was also looking at the Zyxel products (as mentioned by Neil) - they have
 comparable products to the Zhone ones - IES-1248 for a 1U 48 port DSLAM/MSAN,
 and the IES-5000 for a chassis based solution, which has a similar range of
 linecard option to the Zhone (including ADSL2+ and SHDSL/EFM). I've not yet
 managed to speak to Zyxel or a reseller about these yet (any recommended 
 sales contacts?). Based on pricing found via google, the Zhone and Zyxel are
 a similar price point.
 
 The bloke from Kenton Group that I spoke to wasn't particularly complimentary
 about the Zyxel products (but then, he was trying to sell me the Zhone stuff).
 
 Simon