Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
Jain, Pankaj (MED, TCS) wrote: >I am generating the PDF using XSLFO/FOP and Arial Unicode MS font >for Global languages.And during Implementation I found that Bold/Italics >character are not appearing in bold/Italic in PDF which was coming >there is any Issue with Arial Unicode Font for Bold/Italic or I need to >make some other configuration to fix it. Unlike the standard Arial family, Arial Unicode MS only comes with a single weight (regular) and style (roman). You can create synthetic (or faux) weights and styles using your application's style buttons and these will work perfectly well on screen and even with some printers (mainly inkjet). But these faux weights and styles will hardly ever work in desktop postscript printers, and never in pdfs or imagesetters. Kevin
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
Philippe Verdy wrote on 06/20/2003 03:29:17 PM: > I think that Italic is to avoid for most Asian scripts, as readers are not > used to it. For Arabic it may cause problems because of the placement > of diacritic points. Thai type designers are extremely creative and not afraid of doing with Thai type most anything that gets done with Latin type, as well as some things that I have not seen done with Latin type. Bold and italic? No prob. - Peter --- Peter Constable Non-Roman Script Initiative, SIL International 7500 W. Camp Wisdom Rd., Dallas, TX 75236, USA Tel: +1 972 708 7485
Re: Unsubscribe
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html#5 - Original Message - From: "renu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 2:15 AM Subject: Unsubscribe
Unsubscribe
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
At 16:45 -0700 2003-06-20, Richard Cook wrote: Of course, in pop e-print, nearly everything that can be done to a character is done ... including Bold-Ital-Outline-Shadow ... Hey, there's no reason only Latin typography should be filled with vulgarism... -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 02:44 , Kenneth Whistler wrote: What is true is that use of italicized text is unusual in Chinese or Japanese body text--certainly not with the frequency or same range of functions as occurs in Latin typography. Bold text is not that unusual, however. In precomputer Chinese, it would be very unusual to see italics or bold. The place of both is filled with point size differences, brackets/quotes of various styles, underlining (straight or saw-toothed, single or double). In later times, even with computerized font faces, it's my impression that italics and bold are not quite suitable for formal writing. Of course, in pop e-print, nearly everything that can be done to a character is done ... including Bold-Ital-Outline-Shadow ...
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
At 14:44 -0700 2003-06-20, Kenneth Whistler wrote: > I think that Italic is to avoid for most Asian scripts, as readers are not used to it. For body text, in documents or on web pages, I would agree. A wide range of oblique styles have been used in many Indian scripts for a very long time now. Generally they are used as display type, in headlines, for instance. -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
On Sat, 2003-06-21 at 02:04, Michael Everson wrote: > Roozbeh informs me that "oblique [Naskh] is a standard things > nowadays, specially since it can usually be done automatically in > software. Both slanted and backslanted." Certainly I saw italic > signage in Kabul. Just to confirm. BTW, one of my concerns in writing automatic typesetting software, is what you do if you want to emphasize a paragraph containing both Arabic and Latin: The preferred angle for slanting Arabic is toward left, while the preferred angle for Latin is toward right. So, if you want your paragraph to look both consistent and nice, you should slant the whole text (including the Latin) to left if the main text is in Arabic. Now, assume how bad it will look to a Latin reader... roozbeh
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
Philippe Verdy, > But it's true that complex scripts like Han will be poorly rendered in Bold > or Italic... But does someone actually wants to read Han text with Bold > characters (or even worse slanted with Italic) ? What is true is that use of italicized text is unusual in Chinese or Japanese body text--certainly not with the frequency or same range of functions as occurs in Latin typography. Bold text is not that unusual, however. Han (and Japanese kana) font designers have adapted a whole range of Western typographic ideas on top of traditional stylistic ideas for East Asian fonts, and it is not at all strange to find many ranges of bold/heaviness in fonts for display type, advertising, notices, and such, as well as different kinds of oblique or italic faces as well. You even see inverse-obliqued faces for vertical display, where the vertical lines of the characters stay vertical, but the horizontal lines are obliqued up to the left, to give the visual effect of angled text while maintaining vertical alignment. Just browse in any modern Chinese or Japanese magazine to see a great range of such effects. > > There are etter choice than Italic for Han: use a different font style, This is generally true. One wouldn't want to deal with glyphs in a Han font which are just algorithmically italicized in the renderer. Those would, indeed, generally be both ugly and hard to read. > I think that Italic is to avoid for most Asian scripts, as readers are not > used to it. For body text, in documents or on web pages, I would agree. --Ken
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
At 17:03 -0400 2003-06-20, John Cowan wrote: Michael Everson scripsit: >I think that Italic is to avoid for most Asian scripts, as readers >are not used to it. For Arabic it may cause problems because of the >placement of diacritic points. It sounds as though you are guessing. Well, I certainly am, but it sounds quite plausible to me that having a mechanically slanted face for either Han or Arabic would not be sensible. Roozbeh informs me that "oblique [Naskh] is a standard things nowadays, specially since it can usually be done automatically in software. Both slanted and backslanted." Certainly I saw italic signage in Kabul. And it doesn't take much manga to know that italics are certainly used with Han characters. Diacritics are placed in Latin and Greek text and we are satisfied to italicize them. My statement stands. -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
At 22:29 +0200 2003-06-20, Philippe Verdy wrote: I think that Italic is to avoid for most Asian scripts, as readers are not used to it. For Arabic it may cause problems because of the placement of diacritic points. It sounds as though you are guessing. -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
From: "Christopher John Fynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In Windows, if you specify bold with "Arial Unicode" the Windows > font rasterizer will generally try to imitate bold > artificially - but this often looks pretty bad. Windows will > also try to imitate italic by slanting the font. The Arial Unicode MS font is particularly well "hinted", but most hints are unusable when the rasterizer will try to create derived fonts. From what I saw, it is slightly expanding the font width, and tries to move slightly to the left or right some points, according to the direction of the curve (this move is more important if the direction is vertical). For italics, I think that Windows simply uses the hinted coordinates and then applies an affine transform to slant the glyph. But the resulting hints are sometimes poorly aligned with the display grid, and characters may be hard to read if your display does not support subpixel antialiasing. The result howeer is quite good on LCD displays with this feature enabled. But it's true that complex scripts like Han will be poorly rendered in Bold or Italic... But does someone actually wants to read Han text with Bold characters (or even worse slanted with Italic) ? There are etter choice than Italic for Han: use a different font style, or reduce the point size and increase the inter-character spacing, so that the reduced text continues to align vertically with normal characters. I think that Italic is to avoid for most Asian scripts, as readers are not used to it. For Arabic it may cause problems because of the placement of diacritic points.
Re: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
- Original Message - From: "Jain, Pankaj (MED, TCS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Edward H Trager'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:37 PM Subject: RE: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF > Edward, > thanks for the response. Is it possible to integrate glyph for > bold and italic in arialuni.ttf or can I have one font which support all > the languages and also have related glyph for bold and italic. > > Thanks > Pankaj There is no bold, italic or bold-italic font that matches Arial Unicode glyph for glyph ( Other pan-Unicode fonts don't have matching bold and italic versions either). For Latin script use plain Arial bold or Arial italic. In Windows, if you specify bold with "Arial Unicode" the Windows font rasterizer will generally try to imitate bold artificially - but this often looks pretty bad. Windows will also try to imitate italic by slanting the font. - Chris
some resources online
A few years ago, we put together a book of background reading for a workshop we were doing on implementing writing systems on computers using current technologies. The readings consisted of a collection of items that had been prepared by different authors, but there was some coordination of topics for at least some of the articles. Anyway, some of the articles in this book are now available online: The NRSI Model for Implementing Writing Systems: An introduction http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=IWS-Chapter01 An introduction to keyboard design theory: What goes where? http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=KeybrdDesign Rendering technologies overview http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=IWS-Chapter07 An Introduction to TrueType Fonts: A look inside the TTF format http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=IWS-Chapter08 Challenges in publishing with non-Roman scripts http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=IWS-Chapter09 TrueType table listing http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=IWS-AppendixC Glossary http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=Glossary - Peter --- Peter Constable Non-Roman Script Initiative, SIL International 7500 W. Camp Wisdom Rd., Dallas, TX 75236, USA Tel: +1 972 708 7485
Re: Unicode not in Quark 6
Michael Everson wrote: > > I wonder what Quark would do if we all wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to > ask for Unicode support. > Good idea. I just did. But, Quark is just the tip of the iceberg. I still need a good (Mac OS X) database that can do Unicode Chinese (including supplemental planes). Any recommendations? -Richard
Re: Chinese "departing" tone marks
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:27:34 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The bigger question is, can your software access the ligatures? Works like a dream with Uniscribe 1.453.3665.0 and later. Andrew
Re: Chinese "departing" tone marks
"Andrew C. West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 06/20/2003 09:14:35 AM: > It hadn't occurred to me that these contoured tone marks could be > represented in > Unicode by means of ligatures. Are there any fonts that currently support such > ligatures ? The bigger question is, can your software access the ligatures? We're we're working on a font that supports the ligatures using either OpenType or Graphite, hoping to having have it out around August. (You can get a peek at an alpha -- the page says beta, but against my better judgment -- at http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=DoulosSILfont; I think this build has OT and Graphite tables, but am not positive.) - Peter --- Peter Constable Non-Roman Script Initiative, SIL International 7500 W. Camp Wisdom Rd., Dallas, TX 75236, USA Tel: +1 972 708 7485
Re: Chinese "departing" tone marks
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:28:12 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hard to say without seeing them, but if they are simply contours, then > those are already supported in Unicode by means of ligatures of the five > already there. If it's something else, go ahead and send me the scan (with > bibliographic details, please); if it's just contours, then I've got > samples. No, they're just contours. It hadn't occurred to me that these contoured tone marks could be represented in Unicode by means of ligatures. Are there any fonts that currently support such ligatures ? Andrew
Re: Chinese "departing" tone marks
Ken Whistler wrote on 06/19/2003 01:35:14 PM: > P.S. Is somebody collecting the 'Every character has a story' > stories? It's a small start, and I can't guarantee how far it will get developed. http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=CatUnicodeCharacterStories - Peter --- Peter Constable Non-Roman Script Initiative, SIL International 7500 W. Camp Wisdom Rd., Dallas, TX 75236, USA Tel: +1 972 708 7485
RE: Problem with Arial Unicode MS font for BOLD/ITALICS in PDF
> Edward, >thanks for the response. Is it possible to integrate glyph for > bold and italic in arialuni.ttf or can I have one font which support all > the languages and also have related glyph for bold and italic. Bold and italic need to be separate font files, and these do not exist for Arial Unicode MS -- and I wouldn't count on such appearing any time soon. - Peter --- Peter Constable Non-Roman Script Initiative, SIL International 7500 W. Camp Wisdom Rd., Dallas, TX 75236, USA Tel: +1 972 708 7485
Re: Chinese "departing" tone marks
Andrew C. West wrote on 06/20/2003 03:59:10 AM: > I noticed that in Yuan Jiahua's authoritative overview of Chinese dialects, > _Hanyu Fangyan Gaiyao_ (2nd ed., 1980), he uses left-stemmed mirrors of the > ordinary right-stemmed tone marks to indicate tone sandhi, the unmutated tone > having a right stem, immediately followed by the mutated tone with aleft stem Just so -- these left vs. right stems are distinct for Chinese linguists, which is why I have planned to proposed five left-stemmed tone letters. > (I can send you a scan off-list if you want). The examples he gives include > marks that look identical to U+02EA and U+02EB, as well as many > other left- and > right-stemmed tone marks that are not currently encoded in Unicode. Are these > the subject of your proposal by any chance ? Hard to say without seeing them, but if they are simply contours, then those are already supported in Unicode by means of ligatures of the five already there. If it's something else, go ahead and send me the scan (with bibliographic details, please); if it's just contours, then I've got samples. - Peter --- Peter Constable Non-Roman Script Initiative, SIL International 7500 W. Camp Wisdom Rd., Dallas, TX 75236, USA Tel: +1 972 708 7485
Re: [ot] anyone know of a good "sending accessible emails" guideline page?
> does anyone know of a simple, explanatory web page, aimed at not too > technical people, based on sending *accessible* email, and if really > necessary attachments and the problems related to attachments > (specifically inaccessibly, not viruses). > > i'm looking for a nice concise web page that i can give the address to > people who keep asking me about email attachments and reading email. > more often than not, the problem is with the sender, so i'd like to > find a web page that they can pass to people (who are more than likely > not knowledgeable about computers) in the event of unreadable email and > in particular unreadable attachments. > > very often an attachment isn't needed (like attaching a ms word > document when emails themselves are text) and i'd like to know about a > web page explaining that thoroughly but simply. > > anyone know of such a magical page? > You mean something like this? http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/safe.html It includes sections on email. - Frank
Unicode not in Quark 6
I wonder what Quark would do if we all wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to ask for Unicode support. At 11:54 +0530 2003-06-20, Quark Tech. Support wrote: Dear Michael, Thank you for your response. Michael, I thank you for your continuous trust and patronage for our product. Let me first apologize for the inconvenience caused to you. I am extremely feeling bad to inform you this that there is no support for Unicode in any versions of QuarkXPress not even in QuarkXPress 6.0. Also, I would suggest you to add your voice for this feature in the wish list by sending your request to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The wishlist items are reviewed by the development and product management teams on a regular basis. I really apologise for this. I hope this information is helpful. Warm Regards, Nidhi Quark Tech. Support -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Re: Chinese "departing" tone marks
On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:38:06 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > That sounds, then, like these are *not* two of the left-stemmed tone > letters (mirrors of 02E5..02E9) that I'm going to be including in a > proposal for additional modifier characters for tone. I noticed that in Yuan Jiahua's authoritative overview of Chinese dialects, _Hanyu Fangyan Gaiyao_ (2nd ed., 1980), he uses left-stemmed mirrors of the ordinary right-stemmed tone marks to indicate tone sandhi, the unmutated tone having a right stem, immediately followed by the mutated tone with a left stem (I can send you a scan off-list if you want). The examples he gives include marks that look identical to U+02EA and U+02EB, as well as many other left- and right-stemmed tone marks that are not currently encoded in Unicode. Are these the subject of your proposal by any chance ? Andrew
Re: Arabic script web site hosting solution for all platforms
Kenneth Whistler Said; > I'd say it might be best to let Sarasvati, in her wisdom, > judge what is spam or otherwise prohibited for this list, > and those who are interested can go discuss with Lateef > Sagar whether his Arabic web site hosting solution works > or whatever... I agree with Mr. Kenneth Whistler Sarasvati will be the best judge about messages to the list. About Mr. Lateef's solution, he is using WEFT's font embedding technique in UTF-8, which is fine for small pages and character based Extended-Arabic Fonts, we have been trying this solution in 2001, you can see www.liwal.com/pashto.htm (sorry that Pashto is not working properly, because original *.eot file is deleted). But a page with ligature based font will take longer to load for the first time www.liwal.com/urdu.htm. Regards. N.R.Liwal www.liwal.com
