Re: FYI: The world’s languages, in 7 maps and charts
The South China Morning Post published a similar infographic: A world of languages - and how many speak them http://www.scmp.com/infographics/article/1810040/infographic-world-languages
Re: FYI: The world’s languages, in 7 maps and charts
Hmmm. How accurate can it be? They forgot Austria, and got Switzerland wrong by almost a power of 10. Mark https://google.com/+MarkDavis *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Denis Jacquerye moy...@gmail.com wrote: The South China Morning Post published a similar infographic: A world of languages - and how many speak them http://www.scmp.com/infographics/article/1810040/infographic-world-languages
Re: Tag characters
Doug, Read on in the minutes to the next day. 143-C27 and related actions. There are a few things to keep in mind here. 1. The un-deprecation of the tags U+E0020..U+E007E *is* part of the UCD for Unicode 8.0. The change has already taken place in the revised beta files now posted (see PropList.txt), and will be part of the 8.0 release next month. 2. UTR #51, while scheduled to come out at the same time as the Unicode 8.0 release, is a UTR and is not formally either a part of the Unicode Standard per se, nor a formal part of the Unicode 8.0 release. 3. As per the minutes, when the approved version of UTR #51 is first published, more or less simultaneously with the Unicode 8.0 release (and explaining other aspects of emoji related to the release, such as the use of emoji modifiers), it will *not* yet contain the flag-tag discussion and mechanism. 4. Once the PRI is up, it will be used as the basis for the next proposed update of UTR #51. And the review of that proposed update and publication of the *subsequent* revision of UTR #51 need not wait for the next Unicode release (9.0 in summer, 2016). So at that point, the flag-tag mechanism will be available for use *with* Unicode 8.0 -- it just won't be a formal part of the release per se. Clear? --Ken On 5/27/2015 10:49 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: On Tuesday, May 19, Mark Davis mark at macchiato dot com wrote: A more concrete proposal will be in a PRI to be issued soon, If the new mechanism is intended for Unicode 8.0, as stated in the minutes at http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2015/15107.htm#143-M1 ... ... and if Unicode 8.0 is planned for release in June, 2015, as stated on the Beta Review page... ... and if June 2015 starts in less than a week... ... shouldn't we be seeing that PRI real soon now? -- Doug Ewell | http://ewellic.org | Thornton, CO
RE: Tag characters
Ken Whistler kenwhistler at att dot net wrote: Read on in the minutes to the next day. 143-C27 and related actions. Ah. Thank you. Now I understand what Steven meant by read the minutes, too. That's the problem with reading individual items in meeting minutes: each item is a snapshot in time, and the next day of the meeting might have brought no change, or a big change. -- Doug Ewell | http://ewellic.org | Thornton, CO
Re: FYI: The world's languages, in 7 maps and charts
I think it is gives a misleading picture to only include mother-language speakers, rather than all languages (at a reasonable level of fluency). Every Swiss German is fluent in High German. Part of the problem is that it is very hard to get good data on the multiple languages that people speak—a huge number of people are fluent in more than one—and on the level of fluency in each. That alone makes it difficult to do accurate representations. That level of accuracy may not be necessary to get a general picture, but when the map purports to go into great detail... Mark https://google.com/+MarkDavis *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Denis Jacquerye moy...@gmail.com wrote: The data used to build the infographic comes from Ethnologue.com. http://www.ethnologue.com/language/deu does not indicate the Standard German L1 population in Austria and gives a population of 727 000 Standard German L1 speakers in Switzerland (the difference is counted as Swiss German L1 speakers). On Wed, 27 May 2015 at 11:22 Mark Davis [image: ☕]️ m...@macchiato.com wrote: Hmmm. How accurate can it be? They forgot Austria, and got Switzerland wrong by almost a power of 10. Mark https://google.com/+MarkDavis *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Denis Jacquerye moy...@gmail.com wrote: The South China Morning Post published a similar infographic: A world of languages - and how many speak them http://www.scmp.com/infographics/article/1810040/infographic-world-languages
Re: FYI: The world's languages, in 7 maps and charts
If the various Chinese languages/dialects are similar enough to be counted in a single category, then certainly Swiss German Is similar enough to the German spoken in Germany and Austria to be counted in the same category. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2015, at 07:59, Denis Jacquerye moy...@gmail.com wrote: The data used to build the infographic comes from Ethnologue.com. http://www.ethnologue.com/language/deu does not indicate the Standard German L1 population in Austria and gives a population of 727 000 Standard German L1 speakers in Switzerland (the difference is counted as Swiss German L1 speakers). On Wed, 27 May 2015 at 11:22 Mark Davis ☕️ m...@macchiato.com wrote: Hmmm. How accurate can it be? They forgot Austria, and got Switzerland wrong by almost a power of 10. Mark — Il meglio è l’inimico del bene — On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Denis Jacquerye moy...@gmail.com wrote: The South China Morning Post published a similar infographic: A world of languages - and how many speak them http://www.scmp.com/infographics/article/1810040/infographic-world-languages
RE: Tag characters
Well, the same reasoning could also argue for the contra-positive (a→b ⊨ ¬b→¬a): that UTC should not consider endorsing such a tag scheme. Peter From: William_J_G Overington [mailto:wjgo_10...@btinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 12:54 AM To: unicode@unicode.org; Peter Constable; eric.mul...@efele.net; asmus-...@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Tag characters Peter Constable wrote as follows: Would Unicode really want to get into the business of running a UFL service? Well, Unicode is about precision, interoperability and long-term stability, and, given, in relation to one particular specified base character followed by some tag characters, that a particular sequence of Unicode characters is intended to lead to the display of an image representing a particular flag, it seems to me highly reasonable that the Unicode Technical Committee might seriously consider providing that facility. William Overington 27 May 2015
Tag characters and in-line graphics (from Tag characters)
Tag characters and in-line graphics (from Tag characters) This document suggests a way to use the method of a base character together with tag characters to produce a graphic. The approach is theoretical and has not, at this time, been tried in practice. The application in mind is to enable the graphic for an emoji character to be included within a plain text stream, though there will hopefully be other applications. The base character could be either an existing character, such as U+1F5BC FRAME WITH PICTURE, or a new character as decided. Tests could be carried out using a Private Use Area character as the base character. The explanation here is intended to explain the suggested technique by examples, as a basis for discussion. In each example, please consider for each example that the characters listed are each the tag version of the character used here and that they all as a group follow one base character. The examples are deliberately short so as to explain the idea. A real use example might have around two hundred or so tag characters following the base character, maybe more, sometimes fewer. Examples of displays: Each example is left to right along the line then lines down the page from upper to lower. 7r means 7 pixels red 7r5y means 7 pixels red then 5 pixels yellow 7r5y-3b means 7 pixels red then 5 pixels yellow then next line then 3 pixels blue Examples of colours available: k black n brown r red o orange y yellow g green (0, 255, 0) b blue m magenta e grey w white c cyan p pink d dark grey i light grey (thus avoiding using lowercase l so as to avoid confusion with figure 1) f deeper green (foliage colour) (0, 128, 0) Next line request: - moves to the next line Local palette requests: 192R224G64B2s means store as local palette colour 2 the colour (R=192, G=224, B=64) 7,2u means 7 pixels using local palette colour 2 Local glyph memory, for use in compressing a document where the same glyph is used two or more times in the document: 3t7r means this is local glyph 3 being defined at its first use in the document as 7 red pixels 3h here local glyph 3 is being used The above is for bitmaps. It would be possible to use a similar technique to specify a vector glyph as used in fontmaking using on-curve and off-curve points specified as X, Y coordinates together with N for on-curve and F for off-curve. There would need to be a few other commands so as to specify places in the tag character stream where definition of a contour starts and so as to separate the definitions of the glyphs for a colour font and so on. This could be made OpenType compatible so that a received glyph could be added into a font. Please feel free to suggest improvements. One improvement could be as to how to build a Unicode code point into a picture so that a font could be transmitted. William Overington 27 May 2015
Re: FYI: The world's languages, in 7 maps and charts
The data used to build the infographic comes from Ethnologue.com. http://www.ethnologue.com/language/deu does not indicate the Standard German L1 population in Austria and gives a population of 727 000 Standard German L1 speakers in Switzerland (the difference is counted as Swiss German L1 speakers). On Wed, 27 May 2015 at 11:22 Mark Davis ☕️ m...@macchiato.com wrote: Hmmm. How accurate can it be? They forgot Austria, and got Switzerland wrong by almost a power of 10. Mark https://google.com/+MarkDavis *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Denis Jacquerye moy...@gmail.com wrote: The South China Morning Post published a similar infographic: A world of languages - and how many speak them http://www.scmp.com/infographics/article/1810040/infographic-world-languages
RE: Tag characters and in-line graphics (from Tag characters)
William_J_G Overington wjgo underscore 10009 at btinternet dot com wrote: Please feel free to suggest improvements. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics -- Doug Ewell | http://ewellic.org | Thornton, CO
Re: Tag characters
Thanks Ken; and yes Doug; http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2015/15107.htm#143-C27 was the reference I was looking for when I wrote my too- brief reply earlier. My apologies. S Enviado desde nuestro iPhone. On May 27, 2015, at 2:06 PM, Doug Ewell d...@ewellic.org wrote: Ken Whistler kenwhistler at att dot net wrote: Read on in the minutes to the next day. 143-C27 and related actions. Ah. Thank you. Now I understand what Steven meant by read the minutes, too. That's the problem with reading individual items in meeting minutes: each item is a snapshot in time, and the next day of the meeting might have brought no change, or a big change. -- Doug Ewell | http://ewellic.org | Thornton, CO
Re: Tag characters and in-line graphics (from Tag characters)
I think I've figured out the philosophy WJGO is trying to follow here. We should have a way to encode graphics in Unicode We should have a way to encode programming instructions in Unicode How about We should have a way to encode sound-waves in Unicode? Or We should have a way to encode *moving* graphics, maybe with sound, in Unicode? Now, he didn't say the last two, in fairness to him. But I think that's the thinking. WJGO, not *everything* computers do has to be part of Unicode. Doing so essentially makes *everything* that wants to support Unicode have to be... well, pretty much *everything* all other computers are. We have graphics formats that encode graphics; they're *good* at it. They're made for it. We have sound formats for encoding sounds. We have various bytecodes for programming--different ones, written by different people, that do things in different ways, because one size does not fit all. Unicode can't be the one size. It was never intended to. Don't make Unicode into an operating system, or worse, THE operating system. It's a character encoding. For encoding characters. ~mark On 05/27/2015 12:26 PM, William_J_G Overington wrote: Tag characters and in-line graphics (from Tag characters) This document suggests a way to use the method of a base character together with tag characters to produce a graphic. The approach is theoretical and has not, at this time, been tried in practice. The application in mind is to enable the graphic for an emoji character to be included within a plain text stream, though there will hopefully be other applications.
Re: FYI: The world?s languages, in 7 maps and charts
Mark Davis wrote: Hmmm. How accurate can it be? They forgot Austria, and got Switzerland wrong by almost a power of 10. I was a little surprised to see only 15.6 Australians speak English, which led me to wonder what the other 8 million of us speak. I see that the ethnologue site they used quotes the 2006 Australian census as saying the population was 15.6 million. I can't imagine where they got that, as that census reported the population as being just under 20 million. The 2011 census recorded the population at 21.7 million. I guess if they are prone to using inaccurate data from old sources, it explains some of the other oddities in that map. Jim Breen -- Jim Breen Adjunct Snr Research Fellow, Japanese Studies Centre, Monash University
Re: Tag characters
Peter Constable wrote as follows: Would Unicode really want to get into the business of running a UFL service? Well, Unicode is about precision, interoperability and long-term stability, and, given, in relation to one particular specified base character followed by some tag characters, that a particular sequence of Unicode characters is intended to lead to the display of an image representing a particular flag, it seems to me highly reasonable that the Unicode Technical Committee might seriously consider providing that facility. William Overington 27 May 2015
