Re: Why incomplete subscript/superscript alphabet ?

2016-10-04 Thread Martin J. Dürst 

On 2016/10/04 19:35, Marcel Schneider wrote:

On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 13:47:09 -0700, Asmus Freytag (c) wrote:



Later, the beta and gamma were encoded for phonetic notation, but not the
alpha.

As a result, you can write basic formulas for select compounds, but not all.
Given that these basic formulae don't need full 2-D layout, this still seems
like an arbitrary restriction.


When itʼs about informatics, arbitrary restrictions are precisely what gets me
upset. Those limitations are—as I wrote the other day—a useless worsening
of the usability and usefulness of a product.


This kind of "let's avoid arbitrary limitations" argument works very 
well for subjects that are theoretical, straightforward, and rigid in 
nature. Many (but not all) subjects in computer science (informatics) 
are indeed of such a nature.


The Unicode Consortium (or more specifically, the UTC) does a lot of 
hard work to create theories where appropriate, and to explain them 
where possible. But they recognize (and we should do so, too) that in 
the end, writing is a *cultural* phenomenon, where straightforward, 
rigid theories have severe limitations.


From a certain viewpoint (the chemist's in the example above), the 
result may look arbitrary, but from another viewpoint (the 
phoneticist's), it looks perfectly fine. At first, it looks like it 
would be easy to fix such problems, but each fix risks to introduce new 
arbitrariness when seen from somebody else's viewpoint. Getting upset 
won't help.


Regards,Martin.

Re: Android character picker

2016-10-04 Thread Cristian Secară 
În data de Tue, 4 Oct 2016 13:43:57 +0530, Shriramana Sharma a scris:

> Kindly advise on what is the most comprehensive and up to date Unicode
> character picker for Android available.
> Am not able to find a good one.

You didn't mentioned what (if) application you tried already and perhaps
what means "a good one" by comparison.

A search for "charmap" on Google Play gives at least two results. I
tried (superficially) one of them, on which I was able to pick a group
of characters with no problem.

Cristi

-- 
Cristian Secară
http://www.secărică.ro

Re: What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread Philippe Verdy 
2016-10-04 19:25 GMT+02:00 Leonardo Boiko :

> The Google error message felt a bit too harsh for a webhosting client who
> merely exceeded their allotted bandwidth.  It made it sound like the
> website was hosting something illegal.
>

It's not impossible that the site was hacked a bit somewhere and used by a
thirdparty to host illegal content, or some malwares causing it to generate
a spike of bandwidth.

Stopping the website temporarily is a safe measure before admins can
explain what is causing this unexpected excess, and some cleanup operations
are eventually performed and some additional security measures taken
(Google itself cannot do that cleanup without an active action by the site
maintainer).


However I agree that the automatic message sent by Google used by the
blocker was very harsh.
Google can detect malwares running on hosted sites and could be more
informative about the cause:
- blocked because of a security issue (without explaining more to the
public, could be a DDoS damaging the operations on other hosted websites,
or hacked contents...).
- blocked until the site admins solve technical problems.
- blocked temporarily because of excess bandwidth (but no security issue
detected), but not saying publicly if this is because of failed payments
(this is private communication between the host provider and the web
service).
- blocked temporarily due to a technical problem on the hosting platform
itself.
- blocked indefinitely due to a legal constraint (such as a court order,
the court order may force the publication of a legal notice on a static
page).
And it should provide a better way of contact for site admins, or for
explaining what visitors can do (if there was a malware hosted on the site,
what they should do themselves on their own devices).

Re: What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread Leonardo Boiko 
The Google error message felt a bit too harsh for a webhosting client who
merely exceeded their allotted bandwidth.  It made it sound like the
website was hosting something illegal.

2016-10-04 13:00 GMT-03:00 Philippe Verdy :

> It looks that an automated bot run by Google detected an excessive use of
> bandwidth and launch the block, waiting for another subcription or payment,
> even if the site was (possibly) donated by Google itself. That bit probably
> does not know what it does and acts like any other hosted site. (Google's
> own usage policy is probably more enforced now: you can host free websites
> but above some threshold it will be blocked).
>
> Note also that this is the webhosting which is blocked, not the domain
> name (hosted by Apple who probably offered it to the Consortium).
>
> There's probably been a lack of communication somewhere in Google, or an
> administrator error that removed an exception for a site that should have
> first been handled specially internally by a human hierarchy.
>
> If the usage limit was exhausted, may be this is because the site was
> harvested by some malwares and I think it's reasonnable to block it first
> before scanning, cleaning, restoring damaged parts from a safe backup, and
> investigating about which protection measures were missing or should be
> taken).
>
> There's certainly people looking for what happend precisely. I hope this
> is just an administrative measure that can be easily reversed and that no
> damage happend to CLDR data (and to private data there about CLDR surveyors
> or user authentication databases). I don't think there's damage on the
> released CLDR data, but there could be losses in some recent ongoing works.
>
> 2016-10-04 15:53 GMT+02:00 Steven R. Loomis :
>
>> Yes, the web content is hosted by google sites, a web hosting provider.
>>
>> As to it being down, i understand this is being looked into.
>>
>> Enviado desde nuestro iPhone.
>>
>> El oct. 4, 2016, a las 5:51 AM, Cristian Secară 
>> escribió:
>>
>> În data de Tue, 4 Oct 2016 19:50:05 +0800, gfb hjjhjh a scris:
>>
>> Why is the site suspended by Google and how to access it now?
>>
>>
>> Just curious: Unicode = Google ? (physically)
>>
>> I am asking this because by entering directly http://cldr.unicode.org
>> the error result belongs to Google and not to unicode.org.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Cristi
>>
>> --
>> Cristian Secară
>> http://www.secărică.ro 
>>
>>
>

Re: What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread Steven R. Loomis 
Depending on DNS propagation, you may see minor glitches today. But the content 
should all be back up.

-s




El [FECHA], "[NOMBRE]" <[DIRECCIÓN]> escribió:

>It seems to be back up as of 16:23 UTC.
> 
>--
>Doug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | ewellic.org

Re: What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread Doug Ewell 
It seems to be back up as of 16:23 UTC.
 
--
Doug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | ewellic.org

Re: What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread Philippe Verdy 
It looks that an automated bot run by Google detected an excessive use of
bandwidth and launch the block, waiting for another subcription or payment,
even if the site was (possibly) donated by Google itself. That bit probably
does not know what it does and acts like any other hosted site. (Google's
own usage policy is probably more enforced now: you can host free websites
but above some threshold it will be blocked).

Note also that this is the webhosting which is blocked, not the domain name
(hosted by Apple who probably offered it to the Consortium).

There's probably been a lack of communication somewhere in Google, or an
administrator error that removed an exception for a site that should have
first been handled specially internally by a human hierarchy.

If the usage limit was exhausted, may be this is because the site was
harvested by some malwares and I think it's reasonnable to block it first
before scanning, cleaning, restoring damaged parts from a safe backup, and
investigating about which protection measures were missing or should be
taken).

There's certainly people looking for what happend precisely. I hope this is
just an administrative measure that can be easily reversed and that no
damage happend to CLDR data (and to private data there about CLDR surveyors
or user authentication databases). I don't think there's damage on the
released CLDR data, but there could be losses in some recent ongoing works.

2016-10-04 15:53 GMT+02:00 Steven R. Loomis :

> Yes, the web content is hosted by google sites, a web hosting provider.
>
> As to it being down, i understand this is being looked into.
>
> Enviado desde nuestro iPhone.
>
> El oct. 4, 2016, a las 5:51 AM, Cristian Secară 
> escribió:
>
> În data de Tue, 4 Oct 2016 19:50:05 +0800, gfb hjjhjh a scris:
>
> Why is the site suspended by Google and how to access it now?
>
>
> Just curious: Unicode = Google ? (physically)
>
> I am asking this because by entering directly http://cldr.unicode.org
> the error result belongs to Google and not to unicode.org.
>
> ?
>
> Cristi
>
> --
> Cristian Secară
> http://www.secărică.ro 
>
>

Re: What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread Steven R. Loomis 
Yes, the web content is hosted by google sites, a web hosting provider. 

As to it being down, i understand this is being looked into. 

Enviado desde nuestro iPhone.

> El oct. 4, 2016, a las 5:51 AM, Cristian Secară  escribió:
> 
> În data de Tue, 4 Oct 2016 19:50:05 +0800, gfb hjjhjh a scris:
> 
>> Why is the site suspended by Google and how to access it now?
> 
> Just curious: Unicode = Google ? (physically)
> 
> I am asking this because by entering directly http://cldr.unicode.org
> the error result belongs to Google and not to unicode.org.
> 
> ?
> 
> Cristi
> 
> -- 
> Cristian Secară
> http://www.secărică.ro

Re: What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread Marc Blanchet 


On 4 Oct 2016, at 8:51, Cristian Secară wrote:

> În data de Tue, 4 Oct 2016 19:50:05 +0800, gfb hjjhjh a scris:
>
>> Why is the site suspended by Google and how to access it now?
>
> Just curious: Unicode = Google ? (physically)

well, does not look Google to me… but see below

//
dig unicode.org NS

;; ANSWER SECTION:
unicode.org.86400   IN  NS  nserver.euro.apple.com.
unicode.org.86400   IN  NS  nserver2.apple.com.
unicode.org.86400   IN  NS  nserver3.apple.com.
unicode.org.86400   IN  NS  nserver.apple.com.
unicode.org.86400   IN  NS  nserver.asia.apple.com.
unicode.org.86400   IN  NS  nserver4.apple.com.

///
 dig unicode.org A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
unicode.org.2757IN  A   216.97.88.9

whois 216.97.88.9

NetRange:   216.97.0.0 - 216.97.127.255
CIDR:   216.97.0.0/17
NetName:CORESPACE-4
NetHandle:  NET-216-97-0-0-1
Parent: NET216 (NET-216-0-0-0-0)
NetType:Direct Allocation
OriginAS:   AS54489
Organization:   CoreSpace, Inc. (CORES-27)
RegDate:2000-08-23
Updated:2013-02-21
Ref:https://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-216-97-0-0-1


OrgName:CoreSpace, Inc.
OrgId:  CORES-27
Address:7505 John W. Carpenter Freeway
City:   Dallas
StateProv:  TX
PostalCode: 75247
Country:US
RegDate:2009-08-10
Updated:2012-04-30
Ref:https://whois.arin.net/rest/org/CORES-27
//
BUT:

dig cldr.unicode.org A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
cldr.unicode.org.   37687   IN  CNAME   ghs.google.com.
ghs.google.com. 86400   IN  CNAME   ghs.l.google.com.
ghs.l.google.com.   230 IN  A   173.194.208.121

so cldr seems to be hosted by Google.

Marc.
>
> I am asking this because by entering directly http://cldr.unicode.org
> the error result belongs to Google and not to unicode.org.
>
> ?
>
> Cristi
>
> -- 
> Cristian Secară
> http://www.secărică.ro

Re: What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread Cristian Secară 
În data de Tue, 4 Oct 2016 19:50:05 +0800, gfb hjjhjh a scris:

> Why is the site suspended by Google and how to access it now?

Just curious: Unicode = Google ? (physically)

I am asking this because by entering directly http://cldr.unicode.org
the error result belongs to Google and not to unicode.org.

?

Cristi

-- 
Cristian Secară
http://www.secărică.ro

Re: What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread Daniel Bünzli 
On Tuesday 4 October 2016 at 13:50, gfb hjjhjh wrote:
> Why is the site suspended by Google and how to access it now?

FWIW I reported the issue today using the website's reporting form. So I guess 
the answer is wait. 

Best, 

Daniel

What happened to Unicode CLDR's site?

2016-10-04 Thread gfb hjjhjh 
Why is the site suspended by Google and how to access it now?

Re: Why incomplete subscript/superscript alphabet ?

2016-10-04 Thread Marcel Schneider 
On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 13:47:09 -0700, Asmus Freytag (c) wrote:
> On 10/3/2016 11:47 AM, Doug Ewell wrote:
> > Basic chemical formulas like H₂SO₄ or [ClO₂]⁺ can be written in
> > plain Unicode text. At some point the line between basic and non-basic
> > has to be drawn, just as with arbitrarily stacked superscripts in math,
> > and some sort of fancy-text solution has to take over.
> 
> UTC determined many years ago in response to a proposal, that alpha, beta 
> and gamma, common in organic chemistry, were not acceptable for encoding 
> as super/subscripts.
> 
> At the time, this was requested to support plain text databases used for 
> regulatory purposes, where these were required as super or subscripts.
> 
> Later, the beta and gamma were encoded for phonetic notation, but not the 
> alpha.
> 
> As a result, you can write basic formulas for select compounds, but not all. 
> Given that these basic formulae don't need full 2-D layout, this still seems 
> like an arbitrary restriction.

When itʼs about informatics, arbitrary restrictions are precisely what gets me 
upset. Those limitations are—as I wrote the other day—a useless worsening 
of the usability and usefulness of a product.

On Mon, 03 Oct 2016 14:43:04 -0700, Doug Ewell replied:
> Asmus Freytag (c) wrote:
> 
> > As a result, you can write basic formulas for select compounds, but
> > not all. Given that these basic formulae don't need full 2-D layout,
> > this still seems like an arbitrary restriction.
> 
> Adding a carefully selected group of styled characters to the original,
> carefully selected set seems perfectly reasonable, and is how Unicode
> has worked for around 25 years. Is your suggestion to do that, or to
> throw the doors wide open?

I guess there is no need to throw any door open, and Iʼm sure that no 
suggestion to do so is included here. After the great many options that 
have been discussed, itʼs now up to encode no more than one or, say, 
a handful more superscripts and subscripts, to enable people to achieve 
a great deal of database architecture.

Marcel

Android character picker

2016-10-04 Thread Shriramana Sharma 
Hello.

Kindly advise on what is the most comprehensive and up to date Unicode
character picker for Android available.

Am not able to find a good one.

Thanks..