Re: Farsi Keheh +06A9 vs. Arabic Kaf +0643 ??
I'm trying to find out some information about the extended Arabic character KEHEH (06A9), which the code chart indicates is used in the Persian (Farsi) language. Staff familiar with Persian in the library use the Arabic letter KAF (0643) instead of this and the two characters look the same to them. What is the difference? If no difference, why two code points? There are differences in the shape of these two letters in isolated or final form that has made Unicode encode these as two different letters. The Iranian Standard ISIRI 6219:2002 Information Technology -- Persian Information Interchange and Display Mechanism, using Unicode, *requires* using U+06A9 ARABIC LETTER KEHEH for the Persian Kaf because of its Persian shape and Unicode's recommendation. Please tell your staff to use U+06A9 KEHEH for the Persian Kaf, if they wish consistency with other Persian information encoded in Unicode on the web. This was noticed as soon as we tried using the Farsi(Persian) keyboard in Windows 2000. It contains the KEHEH character but does not have a KAF. I have already made inquiries of Microsoft about this and the character that looks like the KAF to us definitely maps to 06A9. Microsoft's Farsi keyboard is right to include KEHEH as the main Persian Kaf. The Iranian keyboard standard ISIRI 2901:1994 has both KEHEH and KAF on the keyboard (the later on a shifted position), to faciliate Arabic text entry using the Persian keyboard. Is there an expert in the Persian language who could help? There is a web page and two mailing list on Persian Computing matters. Please see http://www.farsiweb.info/ for more details. roozbeh
RE: Farsi Keheh +06A9 vs. Arabic Kaf +0643 ??
Houman Pournasseh wrote: The difference between the Arabic Kaf (U+0643) and the Persian Kaf (U+06A9) is in it's final form. The Arabic Kaf has a Hamza and is missing the diagonal line above the glyoh. BTW, the Persian final form is also common in some Arabic countries. I am attending a course in Arabic language, and the Moroccan teacher corrected my kaf with hamza (ك) and asked me to always use the plain form (ک) because, as he said, the hamza form is only seldom used in printing. Moreover, the teacher's preferred form for initial/middle form resembles Unicode's swash kaf (ڪ). This is also confirmed by our textbook, designed for the first grade of Moroccan elementary schools, where the plain form is used throughout, the hamza form being shown once when letter kaf is first introduced. He also said that the two dots under the final form of ya are almost always omitted in non vowelized text. He wants us retain them, by now, to distinguish ya from alif maksura (ى), but only because we are still working with vowelized text. Moreover, when he showed us the Arabic shape of digits (as all North Africans, he normally uses European glyphs), five had the typical reversed heart shape of U+0665 (۵). These made me wonder about a couple of Unicode disunifications: - U+0643 (ك ARABIC LETTER KAF) vs. U+06A9 (ک ARABIC LETTER KEHEH) vs. U+06AA (ARABIC LETTER SWASH KAF); - U+064A (ي ARABIC LETTER YEH) vs. U+06CC (ی ARABIC LETTER FARSI YEH); - U+0660..U+0669 (٠..٩ ARABIC-INDIC DIGIT ZERO..NINE) vs. U+06F0..U+06F0 (۰..۹ EXTENDED ARABIC-INDIC DIGIT ZERO..NINE). Shouldn't these better have been considered as font variants? _ Marco
RE: Farsi Keheh +06A9 vs. Arabic Kaf +0643 ??
Lainaus Marco Cimarosti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: These made me wonder about a couple of Unicode disunifications: - U+0643 (ARABIC LETTER KAF) vs. U+06A9 (ARABIC LETTER KEHEH) vs. U+06AA (ARABIC LETTER SWASH KAF); Keheh vs. swash Kaf seems to be contrastive in Sindhi. See ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/arabtex/doc/arabdoc.pdf page 49's transliteration table, where k produces a swash kaf and kh a keheh. Best regards, Miikka-Markus Alhonen
RE: Farsi Keheh +06A9 vs. Arabic Kaf +0643 ??
Miikka-Markus Alhonen wrote: Lainaus Marco Cimarosti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: These made me wonder about a couple of Unicode disunifications: - U+0643 (ARABIC LETTER KAF) vs. U+06A9 (ARABIC LETTER KEHEH) vs. U+06AA (ARABIC LETTER SWASH KAF); Keheh vs. swash Kaf seems to be contrastive in Sindhi. See ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/arabtex/doc/arabdoc.pdf page 49's transliteration table, where k produces a swash kaf and kh a keheh. Correct, I apologize. This is confirmed by other online sources: http://www.geocities.com/sindhnj/sindhialpha.html (rightmost column, 3rd row from bottom); http://www.sindhiinfo.com/learn/lesson11.asp _ Marco
Farsi Keheh +06A9 vs. Arabic Kaf +0643 ??
Hello, I received this email and was hoping that someone on the list (Roozbeh, maybe) would shed some light on this issue. Please cc Laura Tull [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Regards, Magda Danish Administrative Director The Unicode Consortium 650-693-3921 BECOME A MEMBER OF THE UNICODE CONSORTIUM NOW BE AMONG THE FIRST TO RECEIVE YOUR FREE COPY OF THE UNICODE STANDARD V4.0 AND WE'LL ADD YOUR NAME IN THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT SECTION OF THE NEW BOOK DETAILS SOON ON http://www.unicode.org/unicode/consortium/join.html -Original Message- Date/Time:Wed Dec 11 09:55:25 EST 2002 Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Report Type: Other Question, Problem, or Feedback I'm trying to find out some information about the extended Arabic character KEHEH (06A9), which the code chart indicates is used in the Persian (Farsi) language. Staff familiar with Persian in the library use the Arabic letter KAF (0643) instead of this and the two characters look the same to them. What is the difference? If no difference, why two code points? This was noticed as soon as we tried using the Farsi(Persian) keyboard in Windows 2000. It contains the KEHEH character but does not have a KAF. I have already made inquiries of Microsoft about this and the character that looks like the KAF to us definitely maps to 06A9. Is there an expert in the Persian language who could help? Laura Tull Systems Librarian Ohio State University -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- (End of Report)
RE: Farsi Keheh +06A9 vs. Arabic Kaf +0643 ??
The difference between the Arabic Kaf (U+0643) and the Persian Kaf (U+06A9) is in it's final form. The Arabic Kaf has a Hamza and is missing the diagonal line above the glyoh. Kind Regards, Houman -Original Message- From: Magda Danish (Unicode) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Farsi Keheh +06A9 vs. Arabic Kaf +0643 ?? Hello, I received this email and was hoping that someone on the list (Roozbeh, maybe) would shed some light on this issue. Please cc Laura Tull [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Regards, Magda Danish Administrative Director The Unicode Consortium 650-693-3921 BECOME A MEMBER OF THE UNICODE CONSORTIUM NOW BE AMONG THE FIRST TO RECEIVE YOUR FREE COPY OF THE UNICODE STANDARD V4.0 AND WE'LL ADD YOUR NAME IN THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT SECTION OF THE NEW BOOK DETAILS SOON ON http://www.unicode.org/unicode/consortium/join.html -Original Message- Date/Time:Wed Dec 11 09:55:25 EST 2002 Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Report Type: Other Question, Problem, or Feedback I'm trying to find out some information about the extended Arabic character KEHEH (06A9), which the code chart indicates is used in the Persian (Farsi) language. Staff familiar with Persian in the library use the Arabic letter KAF (0643) instead of this and the two characters look the same to them. What is the difference? If no difference, why two code points? This was noticed as soon as we tried using the Farsi(Persian) keyboard in Windows 2000. It contains the KEHEH character but does not have a KAF. I have already made inquiries of Microsoft about this and the character that looks like the KAF to us definitely maps to 06A9. Is there an expert in the Persian language who could help? Laura Tull Systems Librarian Ohio State University -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- (End of Report)
