Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ?
Dear list members, This is your official notification that this thread is now terminated. The discussions of 3rd party font IP and trademark status are out of scope and unlikely to result in enlightening discussion here. Regards, -- Sarasvati On 6/2/2010 10:00 AM, Erkki I. Kolehmainen wrote: > Sarasvati? > > I'd personally wish to see you act... > > Regards, Erkki >
RE: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ?
Sarasvati? I'd personally wish to see you act... Regards, Erkki Erkki I. Kolehmainen Tilkankatu 12 A 3, FI-00300 Helsinki, Finland Puh. (09) 4368 2643, 0400 825 943; Tel. +358 9 4368 2643, +358 400 825 943 -Original Message- From: unicode-bou...@unicode.org [mailto:unicode-bou...@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Tulasi Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 7:30 PM To: unicode@unicode.org Subject: Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ? > The trademarked name does not use ALL CAPS. Is Unicode a registered trademark then? If yes where does it say so? > Both refer to the same organization. > Usually, you would use "The Unicode Consortium". Are you suggesting Incorporate is equal to Consortium in this case? "The" usage is grammatical. Or is it mentioned somewhere that you would use "The Unicode Consortium" only? Respectfully, Tulasi From: Asmus Freytag Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 23:21:02 -0700 Subject: Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ? To: Tulasi On 6/1/2010 5:36 PM, Tulasi wrote: > But where does it say "the use of ALL CAPS is discouraged"? The trademarked name does not use ALL CAPS. > And Is it Unicode Inc or is it Unicode Consortium? Which one is > correct? Both refer to the same organization. Usually, you would use "The Unicode Consortium". A./ From: Tulasi Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 17:36:29 -0700 Subject: Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ? To: Unicode Discussion > Just a clarification an UNICODE. > Is UNICODE a STANDRAD > Is UNICODE a CONSORTIUM to make certain > guidlines that needs to be followed for CERTAIN CHARCTERISTICS ? Above is correct as per an existing English language standard, where ALL CAPS is used in order to emphasis, i.e., make it "louder". But where does it say "the use of ALL CAPS is discouraged"? And Is it Unicode Inc or is it Unicode Consortium? Which one is correct? Respectfully, Tulasi From: Asmus Freytag Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:48:42 -0700 Subject: Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ? To: "V. M. Kumaraswamy" Cc: Unicode Discussion On 5/31/2010 2:12 PM, V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: > Hello all, > > Just a clarification an UNICODE. > > Is UNICODE a STANDRAD Yes, Unicode (The Unicode Standard), is indeed a standard. And no, the use of ALL CAPS is discouraged. The proper spelling is "Unicode". > that needs to be followed by all COUNTRIES ? there's no requirement for anyone to be conformant to the Unicode Standard. However, if you decide to claim conformance, there are specific requirements that you must meet, and they are defined in the Standard. > > Is UNICODE a CONSORTIUM to make certain > guidlines that needs to be followed for CERTAIN CHARCTERISTICS ? Yes, Unicode (The Unicode Consortium) is indeed a consortium. If you just use "Unicode" as a shorthand, you need to rely on the context of your communication to allow readers to understand whether you mean the Standard or the Consortium. The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well as several other technical standards. As with the Unicode Standard, there is no requirement that you support these standards. But if you decide to claim conformance to any of them, there are specific requirements that you must meet. Hope this makes the situation more clear. A./ > > This si just to some input from all of you. > > Thanks > Sincerely > > V. M. Kumaraswamy
Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ?
> The trademarked name does not use ALL CAPS. Is Unicode a registered trademark then? If yes where does it say so? > Both refer to the same organization. > Usually, you would use "The Unicode Consortium". Are you suggesting Incorporate is equal to Consortium in this case? "The" usage is grammatical. Or is it mentioned somewhere that you would use "The Unicode Consortium" only? Respectfully, Tulasi From: Asmus Freytag Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 23:21:02 -0700 Subject: Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ? To: Tulasi On 6/1/2010 5:36 PM, Tulasi wrote: > But where does it say "the use of ALL CAPS is discouraged"? The trademarked name does not use ALL CAPS. > And Is it Unicode Inc or is it Unicode Consortium? Which one is correct? Both refer to the same organization. Usually, you would use "The Unicode Consortium". A./ From: Tulasi Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 17:36:29 -0700 Subject: Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ? To: Unicode Discussion > Just a clarification an UNICODE. > Is UNICODE a STANDRAD > Is UNICODE a CONSORTIUM to make certain > guidlines that needs to be followed for CERTAIN CHARCTERISTICS ? Above is correct as per an existing English language standard, where ALL CAPS is used in order to emphasis, i.e., make it "louder". But where does it say "the use of ALL CAPS is discouraged"? And Is it Unicode Inc or is it Unicode Consortium? Which one is correct? Respectfully, Tulasi From: Asmus Freytag Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:48:42 -0700 Subject: Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ? To: "V. M. Kumaraswamy" Cc: Unicode Discussion On 5/31/2010 2:12 PM, V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: > Hello all, > > Just a clarification an UNICODE. > > Is UNICODE a STANDRAD Yes, Unicode (The Unicode Standard), is indeed a standard. And no, the use of ALL CAPS is discouraged. The proper spelling is "Unicode". > that needs to be followed by all COUNTRIES ? there's no requirement for anyone to be conformant to the Unicode Standard. However, if you decide to claim conformance, there are specific requirements that you must meet, and they are defined in the Standard. > > Is UNICODE a CONSORTIUM to make certain > guidlines that needs to be followed for CERTAIN CHARCTERISTICS ? Yes, Unicode (The Unicode Consortium) is indeed a consortium. If you just use "Unicode" as a shorthand, you need to rely on the context of your communication to allow readers to understand whether you mean the Standard or the Consortium. The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well as several other technical standards. As with the Unicode Standard, there is no requirement that you support these standards. But if you decide to claim conformance to any of them, there are specific requirements that you must meet. Hope this makes the situation more clear. A./ > > This si just to some input from all of you. > > Thanks > Sincerely > > V. M. Kumaraswamy
RE: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ?
"Some font vendors say and publish on their website that their fonts are Unicode fonts." All they mean by that that the character encoding assumed by their font is the character encoding defined in the Unicode Standard. Neither the Unicode Standard nor the Unicode Consortium has any relationship whatsoever to the provenance of glyphs in fonts distributed by any party except in case of fonts distributed directly by the Unicode Consortium - and the only font distributed by the Unicode Consortium is the Last Resort Font, which was developed by Apple. If you have concerns about someone stealing font IP, you should take that up directly with those parties. This mail list is not an appropriate forum for such issues, and the Unicode Consortium cannot form any position on the merits of such claims. Peter From: unicode-bou...@unicode.org [mailto:unicode-bou...@unicode.org] On Behalf Of V. M. Kumaraswamy Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 7:58 AM To: Doug Ewell Cc: Unicode Mailing List Subject: Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ? Some font vendors say and publish on their website that their fonts are Unicode fonts. Some of these fonts are developed by stealing GLYPHS of some similar fonts whcih were available on the website. [that is: IPR stolen fonts] On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Doug Ewell mailto:d...@ewellic.org>> wrote: V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well as several other technical standards. So Unicode Consortium publishes standards for fonts ? The Unicode Standrad is for fonts that are used in different countries ? No, Asmus did not say that the Unicode Standard is a font standard. It is not. It is a character standard, which is a different thing because the identity of a character is not the same as the images of that character as displayed in any given font. The Unicode Consortium publishes charts showing representative examples of what each character looks like, for purposes of identifying the characters. The exact images are not normative, nor are the fonts used to generate the charts. The Unicode Standard especially does not specify anything about "fonts that are used in different countries." Font vendors, or countries if they are the ones who dictate what fonts may be used, may choose any fonts they like. -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org<http://www.ewellic.org/> RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages @ http://is.gd/2kf0s
RE: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD
"V. M. Kumaraswamy" wrote: >> I'm not sure what you mean here... What you call "Unicode" font >> is a font including the glyphs scanned from the book "Unicode >> Standard"? > > What I mean is one of the font devloper has stolen GLYPHS of another font > which were available on the website and developed his font without taking > permission or even informing the owner of the font. This font was selling to > general public for an amount. People were buying this font for their use. > > Now the developer who did the font, is giving it to public as free > fonts, saying that he developed the font. Now the developer publishes that > fonts are Uniocde fonts on developer website. Is this can be done ?? > > Unicode Consortium need to think about these kind of things that are > happenning. That is stealing of IPR of others. This is an altogether different line of argument from whether Unicode is a standard, or whether the Unicode Consortium standardizes fonts. If any font vendor who is a member of the Consortium had their IPR stolen, you can bet they will take appropriate corporate action. I find it hard to imagine that any of the Consortium companies did the stealing. Beyond that, this is not really a matter for the Consortium. A "Unicode font" is not one that contains glyphs taken from the Unicode site or from any vendor's font. The Consortium has stated this repeatedly, in the FAQ and elsewhere. -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 |
RE: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD
for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth Genesis 8 21 From: unicode-bou...@unicode.org [mailto:unicode-bou...@unicode.org] On Behalf Of V. M. Kumaraswamy Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 7:51 PM To: mpsuz...@hiroshima-u.ac.jp Cc: unicode@unicode.org Subject: Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:43 AM, wrote: >I'm not sure what you mean here... What you call "Unicode" font >is a font including the glyphs scanned from the book "Unicode >Standard"? What I mean is one of the font devloper has stolen GLYPHS of another font which were available on the website and developed his font without taking permission or even informing the owner of the font. This font was selling to general public for an amount. People were buying this font for their use. Now the developer who did the font, is giving it to public as free fonts, saying that he developed the font. Now the developer publishes that fonts are Uniocde fonts on developer website. Is this can be done ?? Unicode Consortium need to think about these kind of things that are happenning. That is stealing of IPR of others. Hi, I think ISO/IEC 10646 and Unicode standards are basically designed to be independent with specific font & rendering technology, although sometimes specific font formats (like OpenType) are mentioned in the discussion about the possibility of the implementation for the proposed encoding mechanism. In addition, OpenType is one of the most popular font format to implement the complex text rendering for Unicode, and now it is standardized as ISO/IEC 14496-22, but its language/script dependent part is not a part of ISO. The specification is published by Microsoft, and it is free for the developers to follow it (to use Microsoft's Unicode rendering system) or to create their own specification to use their own rendering system. On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 07:57:33 -0700 "V. M. Kumaraswamy" wrote: >Some font vendors say and publish on their website that their fonts are >Unicode fonts. Yes, but... do you want Unicode Consortium to prohibit to use "Unicode" in the opaque advertisement phrases? In CJK area, some font vendors call their new products as Unicode fonts, because their legacy products supported legacy encodings (e.g. Shift-JIS, GB2312/GBK, Big5, Wansung etc). Some consumers think they are deceived because they wanted to buy a font supporting all CJK Ideographs in latest Unicode but the characters in the font are almost same with those covered by legacy encodings. >Some of these fonts are developed by stealing GLYPHS of some similar fonts >whcih were available on the website. [that is: IPR stolen fonts] I'm not sure what you mean here... What you call "Unicode" font is a font including the glyphs scanned from the book "Unicode Standard"? Regards, mpsuzuki >On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: > >> V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: >> >> The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well >>>> as several other technical standards. >>>> >>> >>> So Unicode Consortium publishes standards for fonts ? >>> The Unicode Standrad is for fonts that are used in different countries ? >>> >> >> No, Asmus did not say that the Unicode Standard is a font standard. It is >> not. It is a character standard, which is a different thing because the >> identity of a character is not the same as the images of that character as >> displayed in any given font. >> >> The Unicode Consortium publishes charts showing representative examples of >> what each character looks like, for purposes of identifying the characters. >> The exact images are not normative, nor are the fonts used to generate the >> charts. >> >> The Unicode Standard especially does not specify anything about "fonts that >> are used in different countries." Font vendors, or countries if they are >> the ones who dictate what fonts may be used, may choose any fonts they like. >> >> -- >> Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org <http://www.ewellic.org/> >> >> >
Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:43 AM, wrote: >I'm not sure what you mean here... What you call "Unicode" font >is a font including the glyphs scanned from the book "Unicode >Standard"? What I mean is one of the font devloper has stolen GLYPHS of another font which were available on the website and developed his font without taking permission or even informing the owner of the font. This font was selling to general public for an amount. People were buying this font for their use. Now the developer who did the font, is giving it to public as free fonts, saying that he developed the font. Now the developer publishes that fonts are Uniocde fonts on developer website. Is this can be done ?? Unicode Consortium need to think about these kind of things that are happenning. That is stealing of IPR of others. > Hi, > > I think ISO/IEC 10646 and Unicode standards are basically > designed to be independent with specific font & rendering > technology, although sometimes specific font formats (like > OpenType) are mentioned in the discussion about the possibility > of the implementation for the proposed encoding mechanism. > > In addition, OpenType is one of the most popular font format > to implement the complex text rendering for Unicode, and now > it is standardized as ISO/IEC 14496-22, but its language/script > dependent part is not a part of ISO. The specification is > published by Microsoft, and it is free for the developers > to follow it (to use Microsoft's Unicode rendering system) > or to create their own specification to use their own rendering > system. > > On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 07:57:33 -0700 > "V. M. Kumaraswamy" wrote: > > >Some font vendors say and publish on their website that their fonts are > >Unicode fonts. > > Yes, but... do you want Unicode Consortium to prohibit to > use "Unicode" in the opaque advertisement phrases? > > In CJK area, some font vendors call their new products as > Unicode fonts, because their legacy products supported legacy > encodings (e.g. Shift-JIS, GB2312/GBK, Big5, Wansung etc). > Some consumers think they are deceived because they wanted > to buy a font supporting all CJK Ideographs in latest Unicode > but the characters in the font are almost same with those > covered by legacy encodings. > > >Some of these fonts are developed by stealing GLYPHS of some similar fonts > >whcih were available on the website. [that is: IPR stolen fonts] > > I'm not sure what you mean here... What you call "Unicode" font > is a font including the glyphs scanned from the book "Unicode > Standard"? > > Regards, > mpsuzuki > > > >On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: > > > >> V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: > >> > >> The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well > as several other technical standards. > > >>> > >>> So Unicode Consortium publishes standards for fonts ? > >>> The Unicode Standrad is for fonts that are used in different countries > ? > >>> > >> > >> No, Asmus did not say that the Unicode Standard is a font standard. It > is > >> not. It is a character standard, which is a different thing because the > >> identity of a character is not the same as the images of that character > as > >> displayed in any given font. > >> > >> The Unicode Consortium publishes charts showing representative examples > of > >> what each character looks like, for purposes of identifying the > characters. > >> The exact images are not normative, nor are the fonts used to generate > the > >> charts. > >> > >> The Unicode Standard especially does not specify anything about "fonts > that > >> are used in different countries." Font vendors, or countries if they > are > >> the ones who dictate what fonts may be used, may choose any fonts they > like. > >> > >> -- > >> Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org > >> > >> > > >
Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD
Hi, I think ISO/IEC 10646 and Unicode standards are basically designed to be independent with specific font & rendering technology, although sometimes specific font formats (like OpenType) are mentioned in the discussion about the possibility of the implementation for the proposed encoding mechanism. In addition, OpenType is one of the most popular font format to implement the complex text rendering for Unicode, and now it is standardized as ISO/IEC 14496-22, but its language/script dependent part is not a part of ISO. The specification is published by Microsoft, and it is free for the developers to follow it (to use Microsoft's Unicode rendering system) or to create their own specification to use their own rendering system. On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 07:57:33 -0700 "V. M. Kumaraswamy" wrote: >Some font vendors say and publish on their website that their fonts are >Unicode fonts. Yes, but... do you want Unicode Consortium to prohibit to use "Unicode" in the opaque advertisement phrases? In CJK area, some font vendors call their new products as Unicode fonts, because their legacy products supported legacy encodings (e.g. Shift-JIS, GB2312/GBK, Big5, Wansung etc). Some consumers think they are deceived because they wanted to buy a font supporting all CJK Ideographs in latest Unicode but the characters in the font are almost same with those covered by legacy encodings. >Some of these fonts are developed by stealing GLYPHS of some similar fonts >whcih were available on the website. [that is: IPR stolen fonts] I'm not sure what you mean here... What you call "Unicode" font is a font including the glyphs scanned from the book "Unicode Standard"? Regards, mpsuzuki >On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: > >> V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: >> >> The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well as several other technical standards. >>> >>> So Unicode Consortium publishes standards for fonts ? >>> The Unicode Standrad is for fonts that are used in different countries ? >>> >> >> No, Asmus did not say that the Unicode Standard is a font standard. It is >> not. It is a character standard, which is a different thing because the >> identity of a character is not the same as the images of that character as >> displayed in any given font. >> >> The Unicode Consortium publishes charts showing representative examples of >> what each character looks like, for purposes of identifying the characters. >> The exact images are not normative, nor are the fonts used to generate the >> charts. >> >> The Unicode Standard especially does not specify anything about "fonts that >> are used in different countries." Font vendors, or countries if they are >> the ones who dictate what fonts may be used, may choose any fonts they like. >> >> -- >> Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org >> >> >
Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ?
Some font vendors say and publish on their website that their fonts are Unicode fonts. Some of these fonts are developed by stealing GLYPHS of some similar fonts whcih were available on the website. [that is: IPR stolen fonts] On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: > V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: > > The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well >>> as several other technical standards. >>> >> >> So Unicode Consortium publishes standards for fonts ? >> The Unicode Standrad is for fonts that are used in different countries ? >> > > No, Asmus did not say that the Unicode Standard is a font standard. It is > not. It is a character standard, which is a different thing because the > identity of a character is not the same as the images of that character as > displayed in any given font. > > The Unicode Consortium publishes charts showing representative examples of > what each character looks like, for purposes of identifying the characters. > The exact images are not normative, nor are the fonts used to generate the > charts. > > The Unicode Standard especially does not specify anything about "fonts that > are used in different countries." Font vendors, or countries if they are > the ones who dictate what fonts may be used, may choose any fonts they like. > > -- > Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org > RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages @ http://is.gd/2kf0s > >
Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ?
V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well as several other technical standards. So Unicode Consortium publishes standards for fonts ? The Unicode Standrad is for fonts that are used in different countries ? No, Asmus did not say that the Unicode Standard is a font standard. It is not. It is a character standard, which is a different thing because the identity of a character is not the same as the images of that character as displayed in any given font. The Unicode Consortium publishes charts showing representative examples of what each character looks like, for purposes of identifying the characters. The exact images are not normative, nor are the fonts used to generate the charts. The Unicode Standard especially does not specify anything about "fonts that are used in different countries." Font vendors, or countries if they are the ones who dictate what fonts may be used, may choose any fonts they like. -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages @ http://is.gd/2kf0s
Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Asmus Freytag wrote: The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well as several other technical standards. So Unicode Consortium publishes standards for fonts ? The Unicode Standrad is for fonts that are used in different countries ? > On 5/31/2010 2:12 PM, V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: > >> Hello all, >> Just a clarification an UNICODE. >> Is UNICODE a STANDRAD >> > Yes, Unicode (The Unicode Standard), is indeed a standard. > > And no, the use of ALL CAPS is discouraged. The > proper spelling is "Unicode". > > that needs to be followed by all COUNTRIES ? >> > there's no requirement for anyone to be conformant > to the Unicode Standard. However, if you decide to > claim conformance, there are specific requirements that > you must meet, and they are defined in the Standard. > > Is UNICODE a CONSORTIUM to make certain >> guidlines that needs to be followed for CERTAIN CHARCTERISTICS ? >> > Yes, Unicode (The Unicode Consortium) is indeed a consortium. > If you just use "Unicode" as a shorthand, you need to rely on the > context of your communication to allow readers to understand > whether you mean the Standard or the Consortium. > > The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode > Standard as well as several other technical standards. > > As with the Unicode Standard, there is no requirement > that you support these standards. But if you decide to > claim conformance to any of them, there are specific > requirements that you must meet. > > Hope this makes the situation more clear. > A./ > > This si just to some input from all of you. >> Thanks >> Sincerely >> V. M. Kumaraswamy >> > >
Re: IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ?
On 5/31/2010 2:12 PM, V. M. Kumaraswamy wrote: Hello all, Just a clarification an UNICODE. Is UNICODE a STANDRAD Yes, Unicode (The Unicode Standard), is indeed a standard. And no, the use of ALL CAPS is discouraged. The proper spelling is "Unicode". that needs to be followed by all COUNTRIES ? there's no requirement for anyone to be conformant to the Unicode Standard. However, if you decide to claim conformance, there are specific requirements that you must meet, and they are defined in the Standard. Is UNICODE a CONSORTIUM to make certain guidlines that needs to be followed for CERTAIN CHARCTERISTICS ? Yes, Unicode (The Unicode Consortium) is indeed a consortium. If you just use "Unicode" as a shorthand, you need to rely on the context of your communication to allow readers to understand whether you mean the Standard or the Consortium. The Unicode Consortium is the publisher of The Unicode Standard as well as several other technical standards. As with the Unicode Standard, there is no requirement that you support these standards. But if you decide to claim conformance to any of them, there are specific requirements that you must meet. Hope this makes the situation more clear. A./ This si just to some input from all of you. Thanks Sincerely V. M. Kumaraswamy
IS UNICODE a STANDRAD ?
Hello all, Just a clarification an UNICODE. Is UNICODE a STANDRAD that needs to be followed by all COUNTRIES ? Is UNICODE a CONSORTIUM to make certain guidlines that needs to be followed for CERTAIN CHARCTERISTICS ? This si just to some input from all of you. Thanks Sincerely V. M. Kumaraswamy
