Re: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[Peter Ilieve]

Mike Ayers wrote:

> ... However, we don't want the article, we want the picture!

After lurking on this list for years, finally I can do something
vaguely useful. :-)

A piece about this appeared in The Times on Tuesday 15 May.
There was a picture of the seal spread over three columns but this
didn't make it to the online version of the story (which is at
, with no
need to register, unlike its New York cousin).

I have made some scans of the picture and put them at
.

The Times credits the picture to Fred Hiebert, who is one of the
archaeologists named in the story, so I hope I am fairly safe
against rampaging copyright lawyers. :-)


Peter Ilieve[EMAIL PROTECTED]

OT: Copyright (was RE: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan)

[Bob_Hallissy]

Mike Ayers wrote:

>  Hmmm - the NYT is based in the United States, where copyright
laws
have an explicit exemption for academic usage.

Ah, but it isn't the copyright that is the problem here, though Marco used
that term. It is the "license agreement" that one agrees to in order to
access their web-based service. So it might have been acceptable to scan
the actual newspaper for academic usage (because that would be in line with
copyright laws), but their web site has stricter guidelines based on
contract, not copyright.

Bob

RE: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[Marco Cimarosti]

I know that all this is very OT, but I guess that the kind of people on
Unicode List is very interested, so this is what a well-known expert said on
another mailing list.

Peter T. Daniels wrote (at [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 17 May 17 2001 14:34):
> [...]
> There is *absolutely no* warrant for thinking this is "writing," any
> more than the Vinc^a signs are "writing." Only if more 
> examples turn up,
> so that any analysis at all is possible, could that even be 
> considered.
> [...]

Peter T. Daniels wrote (at [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 17 May 17 2001 19:17):
> [... it = the article on the New York Times]
> It turned out to be less informative than some postings over the last
> few days to Ancient Near East List, which made it clear that 
> there is no
> comparable material so that no conclusions can be drawn at all.
> 
> The BMAC (Bactria-Margiana Archeological Complex) is also not a new
> discovery/interpretation; it features heavily in the "Mummies"
> conference volumes edited by Victor Mair, pub. 98 of a 1996 
> Philadelphia
> conference.
> [...]

_ Marco

RE: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[Ayers, Mike]

> From: Marco Cimarosti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

> I wanted to forward it to these mailing lists, but the NYT 
> copyright notice
> is quite clear in that articles can only be downloaded for 
> "private use".

Hmmm - the NYT is based in the United States, where copyright laws
have an explicit exemption for academic usage.  However, we don't want the
article, we want the picture!


/|/|ike

RE: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[Michael Everson]

At 10:34 +0200 2001-05-17, Marco Cimarosti wrote:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/13/science/13LOST.html?searchpv=site03&pagewa
>nted=all
>
>In order to read it, one has to register and get an id & password. (Typical
>of our age: our privacy is violated even just for reading a newspaper!)

As if I don't get enough spam.
-- 
Michael Everson  **  Everson Gunn Teoranta  **   http://www.egt.ie
15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
Mob +353 86 807 9169 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Vox +353 1 478 2597
27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn;  Baile an Bhóthair;  Co. Átha Cliath; Éire

RE: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[Marco Cimarosti]

Michael Everson wrote (on [EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> At 08:56 -0400 2001-05-16, Martin Heijdra wrote:
> >There was a photo in Sunday's New York Times. The long article (more
> >informative than the one cited here), but not the photo, is 
> on its Web site.
> >It was a seal with 4 signs.
> 
> Which you are scanning in and posting up on a site so we can have a 
> look, right?

Yes, it would be great to see the photo. The rest of the article is here:


http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/13/science/13LOST.html?searchpv=site03&pagewa
nted=all

In order to read it, one has to register and get an id & password. (Typical
of our age: our privacy is violated even just for reading a newspaper!)

I wanted to forward it to these mailing lists, but the NYT copyright notice
is quite clear in that articles can only be downloaded for "private use".

_ Marco

Re: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[Michael Everson]

At 08:56 -0400 2001-05-16, Martin Heijdra wrote:
>There was a photo in Sunday's New York Times. The long article (more
>informative than the one cited here), but not the photo, is on its Web site.
>It was a seal with 4 signs.

Which you are scanning in and posting up on a site so we can have a 
look, right?
-- 
Michael Everson  **  Everson Gunn Teoranta  **   http://www.egt.ie
15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
Mob +353 86 807 9169 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Vox +353 1 478 2597
27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn;  Baile an Bhóthair;  Co. Átha Cliath; Éire

Re: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[Martin Heijdra]

There was a photo in Sunday's New York Times. The long article (more
informative than the one cited here), but not the photo, is on its Web site.
It was a seal with 4 signs.

It was a rather annoying article: it was a "new civilization (the BMAC", of
which " archaeologists only had become aware after the fall of the Soviet
Union". Of course, it were the British and American archaeologists only who
were ignoring this area; Russian, French, Italian and German books and
articles had been appearing for decades, and had made their way into many a
non-English general public-oriented book...

Martin Heijdra

- Original Message -
From: "Marco Cimarosti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Misha Wolf'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 4:00 AM
Subject: RE: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan


> Misha Wolf wrote:
> > A previously unknown civilisation was using writing in Central Asia
>
> The article says that the seal was presented in Harvard and Pennsylvania
> universities.
>
> I think there is someone from at least one of those institutions on this
> mailing list. Anyone attend those seminars? Or have any material to share?
>
> _ Marco
>
>

RE: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[Marco Cimarosti]

Misha Wolf wrote:
> A previously unknown civilisation was using writing in Central Asia

The article says that the seal was presented in Harvard and Pennsylvania
universities.

I think there is someone from at least one of those institutions on this
mailing list. Anyone attend those seminars? Or have any material to share?

_ Marco

RE: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[jarkko . hietaniemi]

> 
> A previously unknown civilisation was using writing in Central Asia
> 4,000 years ago, hundreds of years before Chinese writing developed,
> archaeologists have discovered.
> 
> 
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_133/1330705.s
tm

I noticed that too and was kind of confused what Chinese writing had
to do with this, given that the area was in Turkmenistan, close to the
border of Iran, not exactly close to China, and why 4000 years is so
significant given that by that time e.g. Egypt and Mesopotamia already had
writing... but at the very end of the article they mention that the writing
had some similarity to ancient Chinese writing.

Re: Ancient writing found in Turkmenistan

[Michael Everson]

At 13:09 +0100 2001-05-15, Misha Wolf wrote:
>
>A previously unknown civilisation was using writing in Central Asia
>4,000 years ago, hundreds of years before Chinese writing developed,
>archaeologists have discovered.
>
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_133/1330705.stm
>

Well. It would be useful to see a sample, now wouldn't it?

Still. Wonder if there's a Rosetta stone in that there tell?
-- 
Michael Everson  **  Everson Gunn Teoranta  **   http://www.egt.ie
15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
Mob +353 86 807 9169 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Vox +353 1 478 2597
27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn;  Baile an Bhóthair;  Co. Átha Cliath; Éire