RE: international characters in email subject line
Raghu Kolluru <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Do you know of any email client which CAN do this and also display the from > alias of the email in the desired charset? Lotus Notes does this (and has done so for some considerable time), although it's probably way too large for what you need. Brendan
Re: international characters in email subject line
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Alain LaBonté wrote: > À 19:53 01-02-12 -0800, Sean O Seaghdha a écrit: > >Ar 12 Feb 2001, ag 15:06 scríobh Michael (michka) Kaplan > >fán ábhar "Re: international characters in ema": > > > >Of course, since my preferred mail program is Pegasus Mail, which can only be > >configured for one character set, I can't usually read such headers anyway. > > [Alain] Some years ago, I was also using Pegasus mail and I was not > satisfied with this. I then communicated with the author directly (he lives > in Sourthern New Zealand); we engaged in a series of exchanges and I made > him accept to carry on the character set in use without conversion [in my > case the Windows character set]... You have to use a parameter for this, > this is the compromise he made me accept because he was really impressed by > the SMTP 7-bit-only-headers dogma -- which does not impress me since it > works any way with 8-bit-clean systems [predominant nowadays in the world > since a serious security breach, I was told, was corrected with an > 8-bit-clean-enabling SMTP patch]. You meant sendmail 5.x vs sendmail 8.x (I'm not saying sendmail is the only MTA on earth)? Hmm, that has become an acient history by now. Even after sendmail 8.x had come out, there has been numerous security problems (most of which have been fixed and sendmail has become a lot securer than before.). Anyway, security has little to do with this. > I'm using Win Eudora Pro -- which uses the system c.s. without any question > (under MacEudora it does conversions though, and illogically -- well, I > said nothing, I know some will want to kill me because they like it lie > this -- except that it does not communicate well with the rest of the > world; I'm not going to kill you, but I think MacEudora is a step ahead of Eudora for MS-Windows in that it allows uers to choose what MIME charset to use for outgoing messages (thus, it can be used by non-Western Europeans, to label their outgoing messages with the correct MIME charset) as well as offering users a way to put any plug-in for MIME charset/ encoding conversion (btw, what do you mean by 'illogical' conversion and it not communicating with the rest of the world? The plug-in mechanism for charset/encoding conversion is there exactly because encodings like MacLatin is not compatible with more widely used ones like ISO-8859-1. If you find MacLatin<->ISO-8859-1 converter that comes with Eudora is doing something wrong, I guess you can make your own and use it, instead). I don't know why on earth Qualcom doesn't offer the same mechanism in Windows version. > Win Eudora Pro is however not a model more than Mac Eudora since it > can't adapt to MIME-tagged alien c.s.). Right. That's why I regard it as the worst MUA in terms of I18N among the popular MUAs. MS Outlook Express and Netscape/6.x/Mozilla are a whole lot better than Eudora in terms of I18N. And, IMHO, plain old (but modernized to support MIME and IMAP4 well) text-based Unix MUAs such as mutt and pine are much better than Eudora. BTW, all of these can work with UTF-8. Can Eudora? > If I were the issuer of MIME, I would invent a new header that would say > what is the implicit character set used for the headers. I hate the > MIME-tagging (whis is btw limited to 7-bit QP) inside headers themsleves -- As used for the encoding of 8bit chars in the message header, it's called Q-encoding (NOT QP. It's for the message body encoding). Moreover, B-encoding(similar to Base64) is more approriate for the encoding of 8bit chars when 8bit chars are majority instead of 7bit char(e.g CJK) > half the time they are undecoded by many email programs, bridges of all > kinds (one daily nightmare for me is communicating with Lotus Notes, which > my employer chose for our intranet) and mail reflectors and it makes titles > very hard to read. I know whatever I say would not convert you on this issue. However, I think it's not MIME's fault (RFC 2045-2049 and updates) but those who haven't fixed their programs for so long a time. (Lotus Notes still doesn't support MIME. Hmm, I have no word. How come Lotus does that? ) Moreover, with B/Q-encoding of the message header, no information is lost irreversibly so that you can always manually restore it. On the other hand, however rare it may be, if 8bit chars. go thru 7bit gw and its MSBs are stripped off, the information is gone forever. Some heuristiscs may help you (especially for languages like French written in ISO-8859-1 where only a small subset of chars are 8bit), but the restoration never gonna be perfect (especially for cases like Korean in EUC-KR, Simp. Chinese in EUC-CN/GB-2312-80). > As I usually work in French, I have intensive experience with this. Well, I'm afraid that working in French is not so good a qualification ;-) to say you have an extensive experience on this issue, namely, I18N of MUA(Mail User Agent) because most MUAs support at least ISO-8859-1 quite well unless they're really bra
Re: international characters in email subject line
Ar 12 Feb 2001, ag 20:28 scríobh Alain LaBonté fán ábhar "Re: international characters in ema": > À 19:53 01-02-12 -0800, Sean O Seaghdha a écrit: > > > >Of course, since my preferred mail program is Pegasus Mail, which can only be > >configured for one character set, I can't usually read such headers anyway. > > [Alain] Some years ago, I was also using Pegasus mail and I was not > satisfied with this. I then communicated with the author directly (he lives > in Sourthern New Zealand); we engaged in a series of exchanges and I made > him accept to carry on the character set in use without conversion [in my > case the Windows character set]... You have to use a parameter for this, > this is the compromise he made me accept because he was really impressed by > the SMTP 7-bit-only-headers dogma -- which does not impress me since it > works any way with 8-bit-clean systems [predominant nowadays in the world > since a serious security breach, I was told, was corrected with an > 8-bit-clean-enabling SMTP patch]. I think there are a couple of different issues here. As far as storage on disk goes, I think this changed some time back so that now you have to use the switch to get the old behaviour (converting messages to one code page on disk) which was retained for compatibility with the DOS version. You can send 8-bit mail with Pegasus by changing a setting in Options, but when you switch it on you get a stern warning about it being "formally illegal" and a "Comments" header is added to each message. I have suggested from time to time over the last few years for Pegasus to be made Unicode aware, but I get the impression it's considered "too hard" or "too complicated" although I don't think I've actually got a reply on this from the author, David Harris. Since there will not be another 16-bit Windows version and the Macintosh version has not been updated in a long time, this leaves only the DOS & Win32 versions. Hopefully, this will mean that Unicode will become more of a viable option for him in the future. At the moment, though, he seems quite busy enough adding HTML mail composition to version 4. `~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~ S e á n Ó S é a g h d h a [EMAIL PROTECTED] Calumnies are answered best with silence.Ben Johnson.
Re: international characters in email subject line
From: "Jungshik Shin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Please, note that Michael (michka) Kaplan, I guess is, one of > the last persons on this list to say something not true just to > make MS look bad. There are a few program managers in Office and Visual Studio who might disagree with this statement -- they seem to think I live to bash Microsoft. They are mistaken, sadly. But no company is above having their boneheaded decisions called out, something not everyone there understands. Its nice that you do, though. :-) > Of course, by this I'm not implying by any means that there > are some people who would do that on this list. Its ok, we all know that such people exist; heck, we probably all know who they are, too. As long as we don't name names, no can claim to be offended unless they have felon's guilt or something. :-) MichKa Michael Kaplan Trigeminal Software, Inc. http://www.trigeminal.com/
Re: international characters in email subject line
Ar 12 Feb 2001, ag 20:40 scríobh Jungshik Shin fán ábhar "Re: international characters in ema": > I stand corrected(thank you for correcting me). It's possible to enter > whatever script supported by IMEs installed on your system in both > Subject(and other headers) and body of the message. However, what > I wrote about the display of the headers in scripts NOT supported > by the default system code page still stands. For instance, MS > OE cannot display Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Russian headers under > English/French/Spanish/Italian/German MS-Windows in _the message *list* > display pane_, which Mozilla can. MS OE can display those headers for > individual messages.), though. Thank you for your clarification. MS OE doesn't show any chars outside the system code page in the message list, only in the preview pane and message windows. `~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~ S e á n Ó S é a g h d h a [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ní bhíonn tréan buan. Seanfhocal.
Re: international characters in email subject line
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Sean O Seaghdha wrote: > On 12 Feb 2001, Michael (michka) Kaplan wrote: > > > Well, like I said Outlook does not support this -- it will only use the > > default system code page (b.k.a. CP_ACP) for subject lines and any other > > part of the header. > > On 12 Feb 2001, Jungshik Shin wrote: > > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Raghu Kolluru wrote: > > > > My email client is outlook which does support international character > > > sets. I can send/recieve non-ascii encoded body but not the subject line. > [snip] > > BTW, MS OE doesn't support it while Mozilla does support it. > > This is simply not true! I know we all like to bash MS from time to time, > but people really get far too carried away. I don't know if the above is > true about Outlook (as my installation is stuffed as far as e-mail goes), but > it is NOT TRUE about Outlook Express. OE encodes the subject line with the > same encoding as the body and often (?) the From header as well. I stand corrected(thank you for correcting me). It's possible to enter whatever script supported by IMEs installed on your system in both Subject(and other headers) and body of the message. However, what I wrote about the display of the headers in scripts NOT supported by the default system code page still stands. For instance, MS OE cannot display Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Russian headers under English/French/Spanish/Italian/German MS-Windows in _the message *list* display pane_, which Mozilla can. MS OE can display those headers for individual messages.), though. Not having checked out MS OE for a while, I was a bit confused what is possible and what is not. Anyway, my comment and michka's have *nothing* to do with MS bashing. I was just giving what I believed to be facts, one of which was not true as it turned out. Please, note that Michael (michka) Kaplan, I guess is, one of the last persons on this list to say something not true just to make MS look bad. Of course, by this I'm not implying by any means that there are some people who would do that on this list. Jungshik Shin
Re: international characters in email subject line
À 19:53 01-02-12 -0800, Sean O Seaghdha a écrit: >Ar 12 Feb 2001, ag 15:06 scríobh Michael (michka) Kaplan >fán ábhar "Re: international characters in ema": > >Of course, since my preferred mail program is Pegasus Mail, which can only be >configured for one character set, I can't usually read such headers anyway. [Alain] Some years ago, I was also using Pegasus mail and I was not satisfied with this. I then communicated with the author directly (he lives in Sourthern New Zealand); we engaged in a series of exchanges and I made him accept to carry on the character set in use without conversion [in my case the Windows character set]... You have to use a parameter for this, this is the compromise he made me accept because he was really impressed by the SMTP 7-bit-only-headers dogma -- which does not impress me since it works any way with 8-bit-clean systems [predominant nowadays in the world since a serious security breach, I was told, was corrected with an 8-bit-clean-enabling SMTP patch]. Now I don't remember the parameter -- which is entered at the command-line call of Pegasus -- since I do not use this program very often any more now. I'm using Win Eudora Pro -- which uses the system c.s. without any question (under MacEudora it does conversions though, and illogically -- well, I said nothing, I know some will want to kill me because they like it lie this -- except that it does not communicate well with the rest of the world; Win Eudora Pro is however not a model more than Mac Eudora since it can't adapt to MIME-tagged alien c.s.). If I were the issuer of MIME, I would invent a new header that would say what is the implicit character set used for the headers. I hate the MIME-tagging (whis is btw limited to 7-bit QP) inside headers themsleves -- half the time they are undecoded by many email programs, bridges of all kinds (one daily nightmare for me is communicating with Lotus Notes, which my employer chose for our intranet) and mail reflectors and it makes titles very hard to read. As I usually work in French, I have intensive experience with this. Alain LaBonté, Québec Page personnelle : http://www.iquebec.com/cyberiel
Re: international characters in email subject line
Ar 12 Feb 2001, ag 15:06 scríobh Michael (michka) Kaplan fán ábhar "Re: international characters in ema": > Well, like I said Outlook does not support this -- it will only use the > default system code page (b.k.a. CP_ACP) for subject lines and any other > part of the header. Ar 12 Feb 2001, ag 15:46 scríobh Jungshik Shin fán ábhar "[OT]RE: international characters in": > On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Raghu Kolluru wrote: > > My email client is outlook which does support international character > > sets. I can send/recieve non-ascii encoded body but not the subject line. [snip] > BTW, MS OE doesn't support it while Mozilla does support it. This is simply not true! I know we all like to bash MS from time to time, but people really get far too carried away. I don't know if the above is true about Outlook (as my installation is stuffed as far as e-mail goes), but it is NOT TRUE about Outlook Express. OE encodes the subject line with the same encoding as the body and often (?) the From header as well. Whether or not this works for you would probably depend on what OS you are using and what language features are installed. It works for me with OE 5.50.4133.2400 on Windows NT 4.0 SP5. Of course, since my preferred mail program is Pegasus Mail, which can only be configured for one character set, I can't usually read such headers anyway. `~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~:.,.:'^`~ S e á n Ó S é a g h d h a [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nuair a bhíonn an fíon istigh, bíonn an ciall amuigh. Seanfhocal.
[OT]RE: international characters in email subject line
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Raghu Kolluru wrote: > I wrote a java application which sends emails to a relay server (Postfix). When you write your java application, note that any 8bit character is explicitly prohibited(IETF STD 11/RFC 822). You need to encode them per IETF RFC 2047 (and RFC 2184, 2231). Some MTAs(mail transport agent) refuse to accept messages with 8bit characters in the header depending on the configuration. BTW, the header encoding is not just for working around those MTAs but also for the sake of identifying MIME charset/encoding used and allowing the possibility of multiple MIME charset/encoding mixed in the header (the latter might be mute when UTF-8 is exclusively used) > My email client is outlook which does support international character sets. > I can send/recieve non-ascii encoded body but not the subject line. > Probably this is a question for SMTP newsgroup. Does anyone know public > email address of such a group? Usenet newsgroup comp.mail.mime is the best place to ask your question. (it has the mail-submission address as well, but I don't know it) BTW, MS OE doesn't support it while Mozilla does support it. Jungshik Shin P.S. I'm afraid Unicode mailing list server strips off too many header lines of messages. In this case and some other cases(e.g. when people talke about the safe 'transport' of UTF-8 messages), 'X-Mailer:' header would be nice to have.
Re: international characters in email subject line
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Michael (michka) Kaplan wrote: > From: "Raghu Kolluru" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I would like to send email in international charsets. I am able to send > the > > body using the desired charset but not the subject line. The question is so vague. If you need to get some help, you've gotta provide as much information as possible(what mail program under what OS for what character set). There are so many possibilities and nobody would wish to go thru all of them. > What mail program are you using? > > Many of them (Exchange, Outlook, etc.) do not support this. Some do not even > support international text in the body. Mozilla and Netscape 6 support entering subject header in whatever script for which input methods are available/installed in the OS (MS-Windows, MacOS, Unix/X11). In this respect, I18N of Mozilla/Netscape 6 is ahead of that of MS Outlook. The same is true of display of subject headers in scripts which happens not to be supported by the default codepage (to use MS terminology). BTW, one of the worst MUAs in terms of I18N (among the widely used) might be Eudora. BTW, most modern Unix text-based mail programs (e.g. Pine, Mutt) work fine in this regard as long as you run them under the terminal that supports input/ouput of the charset you want to use (for UTF-8, the newest xterm works well for a pretty large range of the BMP). Jungshik Shin
Re: international characters in email subject line
The email program I am using, mutt, can do this. Kind regards keld Simonsen On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 02:55:41PM -0800, Michael (michka) Kaplan wrote: > What mail program are you using? > > Many of them (Exchange, Outlook, etc.) do not support this. Some do not even > support international text in the body. > > michka > > a new book on internationalization in VB at > http://www.i18nWithVB.com/ > > - Original Message - > From: "Raghu Kolluru" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Unicode List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:37 PM > Subject: international characters in email subject line > > > > Greetings! > > > > I would like to send email in international charsets. I am able to send > the > > body using the desired charset but not the subject line. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks. > > >
RE: international characters in email subject line
Michael, Do you know of any email client which CAN do this and also display the from alias of the email in the desired charset? Thanks. -Original Message- From: Michael (michka) Kaplan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:31 PM To: Raghu Kolluru; Unicode List Subject: Re: international characters in email subject line Well, like I said Outlook does not support this -- it will only use the default system code page (b.k.a. CP_ACP) for subject lines and any other part of the header. michka - Original Message - From: "Raghu Kolluru" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Michael (michka) Kaplan'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Unicode List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:29 PM Subject: RE: international characters in email subject line > I wrote a java application which sends emails to a relay server (Postfix). > My email client is outlook which does support international character sets. > I can send/recieve non-ascii encoded body but not the subject line. > Probably this is a question for SMTP newsgroup. Does anyone know public > email address of such a group? > Thanks. > > -Original Message- > From: Michael (michka) Kaplan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:21 PM > To: Raghu Kolluru; Unicode List > Subject: Re: international characters in email subject line > > > What mail program are you using? > > Many of them (Exchange, Outlook, etc.) do not support this. Some do not even > support international text in the body. > > michka > > a new book on internationalization in VB at > http://www.i18nWithVB.com/ > > - Original Message - > From: "Raghu Kolluru" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Unicode List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:37 PM > Subject: international characters in email subject line > > > > Greetings! > > > > I would like to send email in international charsets. I am able to send > the > > body using the desired charset but not the subject line. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks. > > >
Re: international characters in email subject line
Well, like I said Outlook does not support this -- it will only use the default system code page (b.k.a. CP_ACP) for subject lines and any other part of the header. michka - Original Message - From: "Raghu Kolluru" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Michael (michka) Kaplan'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Unicode List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:29 PM Subject: RE: international characters in email subject line > I wrote a java application which sends emails to a relay server (Postfix). > My email client is outlook which does support international character sets. > I can send/recieve non-ascii encoded body but not the subject line. > Probably this is a question for SMTP newsgroup. Does anyone know public > email address of such a group? > Thanks. > > -Original Message- > From: Michael (michka) Kaplan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:21 PM > To: Raghu Kolluru; Unicode List > Subject: Re: international characters in email subject line > > > What mail program are you using? > > Many of them (Exchange, Outlook, etc.) do not support this. Some do not even > support international text in the body. > > michka > > a new book on internationalization in VB at > http://www.i18nWithVB.com/ > > - Original Message - > From: "Raghu Kolluru" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Unicode List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:37 PM > Subject: international characters in email subject line > > > > Greetings! > > > > I would like to send email in international charsets. I am able to send > the > > body using the desired charset but not the subject line. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks. > > >
RE: international characters in email subject line
I wrote a java application which sends emails to a relay server (Postfix). My email client is outlook which does support international character sets. I can send/recieve non-ascii encoded body but not the subject line. Probably this is a question for SMTP newsgroup. Does anyone know public email address of such a group? Thanks. -Original Message- From: Michael (michka) Kaplan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:21 PM To: Raghu Kolluru; Unicode List Subject: Re: international characters in email subject line What mail program are you using? Many of them (Exchange, Outlook, etc.) do not support this. Some do not even support international text in the body. michka a new book on internationalization in VB at http://www.i18nWithVB.com/ - Original Message - From: "Raghu Kolluru" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Unicode List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:37 PM Subject: international characters in email subject line > Greetings! > > I would like to send email in international charsets. I am able to send the > body using the desired charset but not the subject line. > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks. >
Re: international characters in email subject line
What mail program are you using? Many of them (Exchange, Outlook, etc.) do not support this. Some do not even support international text in the body. michka a new book on internationalization in VB at http://www.i18nWithVB.com/ - Original Message - From: "Raghu Kolluru" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Unicode List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:37 PM Subject: international characters in email subject line > Greetings! > > I would like to send email in international charsets. I am able to send the > body using the desired charset but not the subject line. > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks. >
