Re: [UC] Crosstown roadways

[Dave Axler]

 The issue with N-S traffic on this side of the Schuykill is that none of the 
existing or proposed
"Arterial" routes are interconnected. The primary existing arterial is Belmont 
Avenue, which
runs from City Line Ave. to Lancaster Ave. For travel to the W and NW 'burbs, 
it's a very
useful road, in that if you follow it beyond City Ave, you can get on the 
Expressway at a
point already out of the city, thus avoiding a lot of traffic and construction. 
(Because I've
been commuting to a job in King of Prussia, I've become very familiar with the 
issues of
how best to get through or around Mantua and Overbrook w/o using the 
Expressway.)

Once Belmont hits Lancaster, there's no good way to get anywhere south of Market
St. without travelling on relatively congested, one-lane roads. At present, the 
options are:

Stay on Belmont, which becomes 44th St after Lancaster. That does not even go 
through to
Market thanks to the combination of the Drexel field, the Lee Recreation 
Center, housing 
projects, and the Market Street Elevated's tunnel-to-el switch at 44th & Market.

Jog over to 46th St via Lancaster or Westminster. This will get you as far as 
Chestnut 
or Walnut under normal conditions. That, however, is currently impossible due 
to the 
46th St. El station reconstruction project. Even when 46th is open, it's one 
lane from 
Lancaster to Market and often very slow due to double-parked vehicles, kids on 
bikes, etc.

Go over further West to 48th St., and then head south. This is currently the 
best choice
in most situations.

Follow Lancaster Ave. east to 38th (which begins its arterial status at that 
point), and
then go south. One lane each way, lots of traffic lights, double-parked cars, 
and trolleys. 
Not a really viable option.


 


 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Anthony West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: UnivCity listserv 
Sent: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 9:21 am
Subject: Re: [UC] Crosstown roadways










I had assumed the 30th street radial was what became 76, but I suppose they
could have imagined a large frontage road.  It'll be interesting to see what
happens with 52nd street in the next few years.  I agree that it should be
dense and walkable, but I'm wondering what kind of increased pressure it will
see when the Lowe's shopping center is built at Parkside.  It may be that 48th
will see most of the stress from that.  I find 38th street frustrating as a N-S
arterial as well, but I almost never use it.  Driving it's almost always faster,
I think, to take 49th to Woodland and the Grays Ferry Bridge to almost any point
south of Market in Center City.  Even on my bicycle I prefer that route.

Andrew

Quoting Anthony West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I too wondered about the 30th St. "radial." Is this just another early
> word for what became the Schuylkill Expy., or does some now-forgotten
> concept of Gnostic highway planners lie buried beneath this terminology?
>
> A wide 48th St. crosstown road I can kind of see, even more so today. It
> is very hard for drivers in this neighborhood cut N.-to-S. across the
> major streets, which are mostly E-to-W. Yet crosstown traffic lanes are
> important, even if one wants to travel E. to Center City and allied
> points. Girard, Spring Garden and Grays Ferry Bridges join University
> City to adjacent neighborhoods in North and South Philadelphia.
>
> It is frustrating to drive crosstown in University City and I think one
> road (38th St.) is not enough. 48th St. is already wide on some
> stretches, already supports commerce on some stretches, and still has
> cheap land for widening on some stretches. It's not a "perfect package"
> for inner-city roadbuilding, but it's about as good as we'll ever see.
>
> I'd stay away from 52nd St., which should foster the same dense,
> walkable, transit-centered commercial strip it always has. While it may
> not be a winning ticket, I can't see how road-building and
> speed-enhancing on this street would help the stores on this street.
>
> -- Tony West
>
> > I don't see what the point of making 30th an arterial would be;
> > there's what, three blocks of it west of the Schuylkill, and it all
> > runs parallel to and a block west of I-76?  And 48th seems fine as is,
> > unless there's something I'm missing (i. e. was it different at the
> > time this plan was hatched?).
> >
> > >From what I remember hearing once (maybe on this list), the reason
> > that 38th is so wide is to make up for the fact that 36th, 37th, and
> > 39th are pedestrian-only between Walnut and Spruce; it was felt that
> > there needed to be some way for the cars to travel north-south in that
> > area, so 38th was widened, and at least once a week I almost get ru

Re: [UC] Crosstown roadways

[anm]

I had assumed the 30th street radial was what became 76, but I suppose they
could have imagined a large frontage road.  It'll be interesting to see what
happens with 52nd street in the next few years.  I agree that it should be
dense and walkable, but I'm wondering what kind of increased pressure it will
see when the Lowe's shopping center is built at Parkside.  It may be that 48th
will see most of the stress from that.  I find 38th street frustrating as a N-S
arterial as well, but I almost never use it.  Driving it's almost always faster,
I think, to take 49th to Woodland and the Grays Ferry Bridge to almost any point
south of Market in Center City.  Even on my bicycle I prefer that route.

Andrew

Quoting Anthony West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I too wondered about the 30th St. "radial." Is this just another early
> word for what became the Schuylkill Expy., or does some now-forgotten
> concept of Gnostic highway planners lie buried beneath this terminology?
>
> A wide 48th St. crosstown road I can kind of see, even more so today. It
> is very hard for drivers in this neighborhood cut N.-to-S. across the
> major streets, which are mostly E-to-W. Yet crosstown traffic lanes are
> important, even if one wants to travel E. to Center City and allied
> points. Girard, Spring Garden and Grays Ferry Bridges join University
> City to adjacent neighborhoods in North and South Philadelphia.
>
> It is frustrating to drive crosstown in University City and I think one
> road (38th St.) is not enough. 48th St. is already wide on some
> stretches, already supports commerce on some stretches, and still has
> cheap land for widening on some stretches. It's not a "perfect package"
> for inner-city roadbuilding, but it's about as good as we'll ever see.
>
> I'd stay away from 52nd St., which should foster the same dense,
> walkable, transit-centered commercial strip it always has. While it may
> not be a winning ticket, I can't see how road-building and
> speed-enhancing on this street would help the stores on this street.
>
> -- Tony West
>
> > I don't see what the point of making 30th an arterial would be;
> > there's what, three blocks of it west of the Schuylkill, and it all
> > runs parallel to and a block west of I-76?  And 48th seems fine as is,
> > unless there's something I'm missing (i. e. was it different at the
> > time this plan was hatched?).
> >
> > >From what I remember hearing once (maybe on this list), the reason
> > that 38th is so wide is to make up for the fact that 36th, 37th, and
> > 39th are pedestrian-only between Walnut and Spruce; it was felt that
> > there needed to be some way for the cars to travel north-south in that
> > area, so 38th was widened, and at least once a week I almost get run
> > over crossing it on foot.
> >
> > Isabel
>
>
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
> .
>



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[UC] Crosstown roadways

[Anthony West]

I too wondered about the 30th St. "radial." Is this just another early 
word for what became the Schuylkill Expy., or does some now-forgotten 
concept of Gnostic highway planners lie buried beneath this terminology?


A wide 48th St. crosstown road I can kind of see, even more so today. It 
is very hard for drivers in this neighborhood cut N.-to-S. across the 
major streets, which are mostly E-to-W. Yet crosstown traffic lanes are 
important, even if one wants to travel E. to Center City and allied 
points. Girard, Spring Garden and Grays Ferry Bridges join University 
City to adjacent neighborhoods in North and South Philadelphia.


It is frustrating to drive crosstown in University City and I think one 
road (38th St.) is not enough. 48th St. is already wide on some 
stretches, already supports commerce on some stretches, and still has 
cheap land for widening on some stretches. It's not a "perfect package" 
for inner-city roadbuilding, but it's about as good as we'll ever see.


I'd stay away from 52nd St., which should foster the same dense, 
walkable, transit-centered commercial strip it always has. While it may 
not be a winning ticket, I can't see how road-building and 
speed-enhancing on this street would help the stores on this street.


-- Tony West


I don't see what the point of making 30th an arterial would be;
there's what, three blocks of it west of the Schuylkill, and it all
runs parallel to and a block west of I-76?  And 48th seems fine as is,
unless there's something I'm missing (i. e. was it different at the
time this plan was hatched?).

>From what I remember hearing once (maybe on this list), the reason
that 38th is so wide is to make up for the fact that 36th, 37th, and
39th are pedestrian-only between Walnut and Spruce; it was felt that
there needed to be some way for the cars to travel north-south in that
area, so 38th was widened, and at least once a week I almost get run
over crossing it on foot.

Isabel




You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.