Re: [UC] Roofers and Aunts

[Wilma de Soto]

You are quite right.  I really didn't mean to 'lower the boom' and have
apologized and admitted I was in error.

Thank you for your post.  I can tell you this that a lot of what people of
color call racism is what could be termed as constant disrespect.
Disrespect for your humanity, position in life and the views you hold about
this society by so many are not cognizant about the fact that our lives are
SO different within the exact same society, neighborhood or country.

It is true I see things so differently than many of you, but there is a
reason why.  My experiences are quite different.

I think that what galls me most is when people tell me to lighten up or
there is no problem so what's my beef?  It suggests that I am tenaciously
clinging to wanting feel discriminated against when there is absolutely NO
reason to, except in my own mind.

Negating the experience of being me in this society by those who are NOT me,
is in my opinion the ultimate disrespect.

Nevertheless, I was wrong about the "Aunt Beth" referral in Daniel's case,
but I feel I was NOT wrong about how the term traditionally has been used
with people of color, and tried to explain as best I could how I could have
misunderstood the phrase without knowing all the facts in this case.

My apologies to all who were unhappy with my statement about that.

In fact Elisabeth if you're willing to put up with the odious task of
meeting me, I'll buy.

Take care,

Wilma


On 4/9/05 12:55 PM, "Dubin, Elisabeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi... I need a recommendation for a roofer who knows how to install and flash
> a skylight properly.  Any ideas will be helpful, thanks!
>  
> ***
>  
> I also have thoughts on the "aunt" issue.  The lady that took care of me
> growing up was Auntie Louise, and she was neither my aunt nor
> African-American.  She was Italian, and I always thought of "auntie" as a word
> you use for people who took care of you but weren't really your aunt by blood.
>  
> I respect Wilma a lot for being a person you can rationalize with and have a
> conversation with, and she's one of the people on this list that I'd like to
> meet.  But I get so worked up when I see people making the race issues we face
> every day WORSE by putting out the idea that you can't even say ANYTHING
> anymore without checking yourself constantly.  Why should a guy like Daniel
> apologize for calling her Aunt Beth?  My grandfather used to say, "consider
> the source."  You can tell when someone's being a racist or not, and when
> someone is being loving and respectful.  I guess my guiding principle is "if
> in doubt, leave it alone."  Like, if you're not absolutely sure someone's
> being disrespectful, it's not worth fighting about because you risk alienating
> more people than you endear.
>  
> I have also been thinking about the legacy of slavery in the context of the
> legacy of the Holocaust, since there are some similar issues.  For example, if
> my grandparents were sent to the camps and lost their property in Germany,
> should their grandchildren get it back?  Sure.  What about the money in bank
> accounts that was never claimed by the dead?  Yes.  These things should
> probably happen in the name of an attempt at fairness and reparation.  But
> will it help heal wounds?  Maybe not.  Will it help the larger picture of
> Germany moving on from the legacy of ethnic cleansing?  Doubt it.
>  
> When I saw "Schindler's List," I came in feeling ok and left hating German
> people because the movie portrayed them as universally evil save one guy who
> helped out.  German people are often protrayed as cold and shifty and somewhat
> evil in movies and TV.  When I saw the movie "Rosewood," we all went in
> thinking about other things and left with all the white people and all the
> black people feeling sheepish and hating eachother because the movie portrayed
> white people as evil, stupid and unattractive, too boot.
>  
> For the record, I realize that there is a difference in these two cases:  I
> don't live in Germany with young Germans who view me a certain way, but
> African-Americans live in this country every day and deal with the legacy of
> slavery in daily life.  Even though I'm not descended from slave owners, and
> in fact descended from people who ran across frozen rivers at night and
> smuggled themselves out of the death zones of Europe, I know that as a
> white-ish person, the way I'm perceived in this country is different than the
> way a brown-ish person is perceived.
>  
> So the question is, should we remember or forget?  If we remember, how do we
> remember without hatred?  If we forget, how to we keep things from repeating
> themselves?  How do we forego enough of the past to look forward and not
> always back?
>  
> If anyone has the answer, let me know.
>  
> 
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
> .

[UC] Roofers and Aunts

[Dubin, Elisabeth]

Hi... I need a recommendation for a roofer who knows how to install and flash a 
skylight properly.  Any ideas will be helpful, thanks!
 
***
 
I also have thoughts on the "aunt" issue.  The lady that took care of me 
growing up was Auntie Louise, and she was neither my aunt nor African-American. 
 She was Italian, and I always thought of "auntie" as a word you use for people 
who took care of you but weren't really your aunt by blood.  
 
I respect Wilma a lot for being a person you can rationalize with and have a 
conversation with, and she's one of the people on this list that I'd like to 
meet.  But I get so worked up when I see people making the race issues we face 
every day WORSE by putting out the idea that you can't even say ANYTHING 
anymore without checking yourself constantly.  Why should a guy like Daniel 
apologize for calling her Aunt Beth?  My grandfather used to say, "consider the 
source."  You can tell when someone's being a racist or not, and when someone 
is being loving and respectful.  I guess my guiding principle is "if in doubt, 
leave it alone."  Like, if you're not absolutely sure someone's being 
disrespectful, it's not worth fighting about because you risk alienating more 
people than you endear.
 
I have also been thinking about the legacy of slavery in the context of the 
legacy of the Holocaust, since there are some similar issues.  For example, if 
my grandparents were sent to the camps and lost their property in Germany, 
should their grandchildren get it back?  Sure.  What about the money in bank 
accounts that was never claimed by the dead?  Yes.  These things should 
probably happen in the name of an attempt at fairness and reparation.  But will 
it help heal wounds?  Maybe not.  Will it help the larger picture of Germany 
moving on from the legacy of ethnic cleansing?  Doubt it.  
 
When I saw "Schindler's List," I came in feeling ok and left hating German 
people because the movie portrayed them as universally evil save one guy who 
helped out.  German people are often protrayed as cold and shifty and somewhat 
evil in movies and TV.  When I saw the movie "Rosewood," we all went in 
thinking about other things and left with all the white people and all the 
black people feeling sheepish and hating eachother because the movie portrayed 
white people as evil, stupid and unattractive, too boot.  
 
For the record, I realize that there is a difference in these two cases:  I 
don't live in Germany with young Germans who view me a certain way, but 
African-Americans live in this country every day and deal with the legacy of 
slavery in daily life.  Even though I'm not descended from slave owners, and in 
fact descended from people who ran across frozen rivers at night and smuggled 
themselves out of the death zones of Europe, I know that as a white-ish person, 
the way I'm perceived in this country is different than the way a brown-ish 
person is perceived.
 
So the question is, should we remember or forget?  If we remember, how do we 
remember without hatred?  If we forget, how to we keep things from repeating 
themselves?  How do we forego enough of the past to look forward and not always 
back?
 
If anyone has the answer, let me know.
 


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
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.