Re: [UC] The end of Philly Car Share as a non-profit.
Do you mean to say that for profit, commercial entities actually pay for Police and Fire services? I don't think so. They pay as much as non-profit organizations, which do not pay taxes not because they are tax exempt, but because they do not have profits, you see, non-profit... If you or me do not make enough money to pay taxes we get the same service. It has nothing to do with the status. Now if you talk about tax exempt religious organizations, that is really different, they do make a profit and they do not pay taxes, so they do get free services. Gerardo Razumney On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 8:33 PM, William H. Magill mag...@mcgillsociety.orgwrote: On Aug 9, 2011, at 1:23 PM, maru ca wrote: On Aug 9, 2011, at 11:52 AM, William H. Magill wrote: In any event, it is good to see that Private Enterprise has decided to support the shared vehicle model and be a tax paying, instead of tax consuming entity. Now this piques the curiosity. In what way was PCS a tax consuming entity? They get/got all of the benefits of city services (whichever they were) without paying for them … Police, Fire, Trash… Virtually all Non-Profits consume tax dollars because they depend upon City Services. Consequently the Tax Payers of the City get hit twice by them… Entities, like the University of Pennsylvania, who have their own Police and Trash services, relying on the city only for Fire services are a different issue. They don't consume tax-paid services to the same extent, but do exempt massive chunks of property from Real Estate Taxes. (That I know of, both Penn and Temple have sworn Police Departments, i.e. they have full arrest powers. I don't know the status of Drexel's force currently.) There are undoubtedly a few non-profits who do pay taxes, (and I realize that non-profit and tax-exempt are not the same thing, but the sets overlap a huge amount), but they are usually viewed by everyone but the Taxman as the same thing, and act as if they are exempt. … which is apparently how PhillyCarShare got into the predicament it wound up in. T.T.F.N. William H. Magill mag...@mcgillsociety.org mag...@me.com whmag...@gmail.com You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] The end of Philly Car Share as a non-profit.
Gerardo, Having served as the treasurer of a non-profit 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization for over a decade, I have to disagree with two statements in your post. ...non-profit organizations, which do not pay taxes not because they are tax exempt, but because they do not have profits, you see, non-profit... Non-profit does not mean has no profits. It means cannot DISTRIBUTE profits to other entities (who would then be treated as receiving income from the non-profit). A non-profit organization is actually allowed to make as much profit as it can. (Obviously, at a bare minimum, it has to break even in order to survive.) What it cannot do is pass on those profits on to owners, shareholders, or similar entities. Instead, the profits are required to be retained for use by the organization in furtherance of the purposes stated in their articles of incorporation, charter, and/or by-laws. Any inappropriate use would render the organization's management liable for charges of malfeasance, misfeasance, and other nasty thangs. For instance, if the Philly Art Museum makes a profit, they're required to put those profits into acquiring and displaying more art, providing more art education services, maintaining the museum building, etc. ...tax exempt religious organizations, that is really different, they do make a profit and they do not pay taxes... Tax-exempt organizations -- be they religious, charitable, educational, fraternal, or any of the other varieties recognized by the IRS in section 501 of the Revenue Code -- are only exempted from SOME taxes and fees, not all of them. They are exempt from paying Federal income taxes. (Though they have to file forms w/the IRS just like you and me.) In some states and localities, but not all, they are also exempt from paying state/regional income taxes. Some states also exempt them from paying sales tax on their purchases. And many localities give them an exemption from real-estate taxes. Other than that, they are generally subject to the same taxes, fees, and license charges as a for-profit business. For instance, if they have employees, they still have to pay the employer's share of Social Security and Medicare taxes. If they have a cafeteria or gift shop, they have to collect sales tax and turn it over to the state. In that sense, contrary to Bill's claim, almost every tax-exempt organization is actually a ...tax paying, instead of tax consuming entity. They don't pay to the same extent as a for-profit company, but they DO pay. But the real issue here is this: If the nature of a non-profit business means that it is responsible for collecting a local tax or fee, and it fails to do so, it can be held legally responsible. It may be that management failed to do due diligence, didn't understand what they were doing, got bad legal/accounting advice, or just didn't care. Or, as in this case, a recent court decision rendered their previous approach null and void. If Philly CarShare had chosen play it safe from the start -- to collect the local car rental fee from its users, and turn that money over to the city -- they wouldn't be in their current fix. However, they might also have had far fewer rentals and gone under as a result. On Aug 10, 2011, at 2:10 AM, Gerardo Razumney wrote: Do you mean to say that for profit, commercial entities actually pay for Police and Fire services? I don't think so. They pay as much as non-profit organizations, which do not pay taxes not because they are tax exempt, but because they do not have profits, you see, non-profit... If you or me do not make enough money to pay taxes we get the same service. It has nothing to do with the status. Now if you talk about tax exempt religious organizations, that is really different, they do make a profit and they do not pay taxes, so they do get free services. Gerardo Razumney On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 8:33 PM, William H. Magill mag...@mcgillsociety.org wrote: On Aug 9, 2011, at 1:23 PM, maru ca wrote: On Aug 9, 2011, at 11:52 AM, William H. Magill wrote: In any event, it is good to see that Private Enterprise has decided to support the shared vehicle model and be a tax paying, instead of tax consuming entity. Now this piques the curiosity. In what way was PCS a tax consuming entity? They get/got all of the benefits of city services (whichever they were) without paying for them … Police, Fire, Trash… Virtually all Non-Profits consume tax dollars because they depend upon City Services. Consequently the Tax Payers of the City get hit twice by them… Entities, like the University of Pennsylvania, who have their own Police and Trash
Re: [UC] The end of Philly Car Share as a non-profit.
On Aug 9, 2011, at 11:52 AM, William H. Magill wrote: In any event, it is good to see that Private Enterprise has decided to support the shared vehicle model and be a tax paying, instead of tax consuming entity. Now this piques the curiosity. In what way was PCS a tax consuming entity?
Re: [UC] The end of Philly Car Share as a non-profit.
I wonder how long it will take before the City decides to increase the charge for owning parking spaces now that these pod locations are owned by a for-profit company. -Lewis On Aug 9, 2011, at 11:52 AM, William H. Magill wrote: The announcement below was sent to PhillyCar Share members. The interesting verbiage from the Press release… http://www.phillycarshare.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/EHI-acquires-PCS.pdf The acquisition closes tomorrow, Aug. 10. Financial terms of the transaction will not be disclosed. PhillyCarShare will operate as a for-profit service, and the brand name will be maintained during the integration process. Almost all PCS staff members have been offered positions. It looks like the sale might be related to taxes as much as anything, (loss of 501c status?) as the press release contains the following... In June 2010, a New York Supreme Court Justice found that car sharing “is in 'the trade or business of renting or leasing motor vehicles' as those words are traditionally and plainly understood. In addition, the judge wrote: This bargain – use of a car in exchange for a fee – appears little different from ‘traditional rental car’ companies...” I'm not certain why that reference is in the press release… pretty much out of context where it is inserted. Personally, based on my past experience with the acquisition of National Car Rental by Enterprise/Almo, I expect rates to go up and service to go down. In any event, it is good to see that Private Enterprise has decided to support the shared vehicle model and be a tax paying, instead of tax consuming entity. (BTW, Enterprise is hardly a small business with annual revenues of 12.6 Billion and #17 on Forbes Top 500 Private Companies in America.) Begin forwarded message: Subject: PhillyCarShare Announcement Date: August 9, 2011 8:43:13 AM EDT We have some exciting news to share with all PhillyCarShare members and community supporters. Enterprise Holdings has acquired PhillyCarShare, which not only will provide an influx of new vehicles and additional resources, but also enrich each member’s car-sharing experience. We see this as a unique opportunity to improve operational efficiencies, enhance financial stability and increase long-term customer satisfaction. A copy of the press release can be found here. Please keep in mind that all existing memberships and reservations will be transferred with no interruption of service. And both fuel and 24-hour roadside assistance will be part of your PhillyCarShare membership. In addition, the following enhancements and changes will be coming soon: • Newer cars • More rate options • More vehicles in more neighborhoods • Streamlined driver approval process To help celebrate this ground-breaking announcement, we are soliciting your suggestions for new and/or expanded pod locations. (Note that the hourly car share rate includes up to $300,000 in liability protection, and the driver’s responsibility for physical damage is $500.) We are proud that PhillyCarShare will be part of the Enterprise family and the company’s customer service legacy. We also are excited to be able to continue offering important and sustainable local transportation options in the Philadelphia area, regardless of whether the transaction is for an hour, a day or even longer. Thank you again for your loyalty and dedication to PhillyCarShare. Please don’t hesitate to let us know if you have any questions. Best regards, Gerald Furgione Executive Director PhillyCarShare 125 S 9th St Suite 1000 · Philadelphia, PA · 19107 (215) 730-0988 www.phillycarshare.org William H. Magill Block Captain 4400 Chestnut Street mag...@mcgillsociety.org whmag...@gmail.com 4428 Chestnut Street Philadelphia, PA 19104-2914 (267-402-0529) You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] The end of Philly Car Share as a non-profit.
Actually, they've already done it. An article in the paper about a week ago noted that the cost of a reserved valet-parking space was increasing substantially, to the extent that many restaurants were choosing not to renew their agreements with the city. On Aug 9, 2011, at 1:29 PM, Lewis Mellman wrote: I wonder how long it will take before the City decides to increase the charge for owning parking spaces now that these pod locations are owned by a for-profit company. -Lewis On Aug 9, 2011, at 11:52 AM, William H. Magill wrote: The announcement below was sent to PhillyCar Share members. The interesting verbiage from the Press release… http://www.phillycarshare.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/EHI-acquires-PCS.pdf The acquisition closes tomorrow, Aug. 10. Financial terms of the transaction will not be disclosed. PhillyCarShare will operate as a for-profit service, and the brand name will be maintained during the integration process. Almost all PCS staff members have been offered positions. It looks like the sale might be related to taxes as much as anything, (loss of 501c status?) as the press release contains the following... In June 2010, a New York Supreme Court Justice found that car sharing “is in 'the trade or business of renting or leasing motor vehicles' as those words are traditionally and plainly understood. In addition, the judge wrote: This bargain – use of a car in exchange for a fee – appears little different from ‘traditional rental car’ companies...” I'm not certain why that reference is in the press release… pretty much out of context where it is inserted. Personally, based on my past experience with the acquisition of National Car Rental by Enterprise/Almo, I expect rates to go up and service to go down. In any event, it is good to see that Private Enterprise has decided to support the shared vehicle model and be a tax paying, instead of tax consuming entity. (BTW, Enterprise is hardly a small business with annual revenues of 12.6 Billion and #17 on Forbes Top 500 Private Companies in America.) Begin forwarded message: Subject: PhillyCarShare Announcement Date: August 9, 2011 8:43:13 AM EDT We have some exciting news to share with all PhillyCarShare members and community supporters. Enterprise Holdings has acquired PhillyCarShare, which not only will provide an influx of new vehicles and additional resources, but also enrich each member’s car-sharing experience. We see this as a unique opportunity to improve operational efficiencies, enhance financial stability and increase long-term customer satisfaction. A copy of the press release can be found here. Please keep in mind that all existing memberships and reservations will be transferred with no interruption of service. And both fuel and 24-hour roadside assistance will be part of your PhillyCarShare membership. In addition, the following enhancements and changes will be coming soon: • Newer cars • More rate options • More vehicles in more neighborhoods • Streamlined driver approval process To help celebrate this ground-breaking announcement, we are soliciting your suggestions for new and/or expanded pod locations. (Note that the hourly car share rate includes up to $300,000 in liability protection, and the driver’s responsibility for physical damage is $500.) We are proud that PhillyCarShare will be part of the Enterprise family and the company’s customer service legacy. We also are excited to be able to continue offering important and sustainable local transportation options in the Philadelphia area, regardless of whether the transaction is for an hour, a day or even longer. Thank you again for your loyalty and dedication to PhillyCarShare. Please don’t hesitate to let us know if you have any questions. Best regards, Gerald Furgione Executive Director PhillyCarShare 125 S 9th St Suite 1000 · Philadelphia, PA · 19107 (215) 730-0988 www.phillycarshare.org William H. Magill Block Captain 4400 Chestnut Street mag...@mcgillsociety.org whmag...@gmail.com 4428 Chestnut Street Philadelphia, PA 19104-2914 (267-402-0529) You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] The end of Philly Car Share as a non-profit.
On Aug 9, 2011, at 1:23 PM, maru ca wrote: On Aug 9, 2011, at 11:52 AM, William H. Magill wrote: In any event, it is good to see that Private Enterprise has decided to support the shared vehicle model and be a tax paying, instead of tax consuming entity. Now this piques the curiosity. In what way was PCS a tax consuming entity? They get/got all of the benefits of city services (whichever they were) without paying for them … Police, Fire, Trash… Virtually all Non-Profits consume tax dollars because they depend upon City Services. Consequently the Tax Payers of the City get hit twice by them… Entities, like the University of Pennsylvania, who have their own Police and Trash services, relying on the city only for Fire services are a different issue. They don't consume tax-paid services to the same extent, but do exempt massive chunks of property from Real Estate Taxes. (That I know of, both Penn and Temple have sworn Police Departments, i.e. they have full arrest powers. I don't know the status of Drexel's force currently.) There are undoubtedly a few non-profits who do pay taxes, (and I realize that non-profit and tax-exempt are not the same thing, but the sets overlap a huge amount), but they are usually viewed by everyone but the Taxman as the same thing, and act as if they are exempt. … which is apparently how PhillyCarShare got into the predicament it wound up in. T.T.F.N. William H. Magill mag...@mcgillsociety.org mag...@me.com whmag...@gmail.com You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
