Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)

[Frank Carroll]

On the other hand, a moderated list runs the risk of reflecting only the views 
of the moderator. In this case I can't say that this hasn't happened.

Frank

On Apr 12, 2010, at 07:41 PM, Anthony West wrote:

> Hi Frank. Always glad to talk with a fellow UC-list supporter.
> 
> This is my opinion. I earn a humble living by determining which, among a 
> welter of reports, are informative, observant and factual; so please excuse 
> me if I extend my work habits to this listserve. Since it's an unmoderated 
> listserve, I can't deny that deceptive, ignorant, shameless and false 
> statements have equal right to be published on UC-list.
> 
> That's what UC-list is best known for, among neighborhood movers and shakers 
> who read the internet. It's the listserve where nobody who actually does 
> anything around here, writes anything.
> 
> Do you disagree with me?
> 
> -- Tony West
> 
> 
>> "informative, observant and factual?" Did someone do a survey or is this 
>> just your "factual" opinion?
>> 
>> Frank
>>   
> 
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
> .
> 


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)

[Anthony West]

Hi Frank. Always glad to talk with a fellow UC-list supporter.

This is my opinion. I earn a humble living by determining which, among a 
welter of reports, are informative, observant and factual; so please 
excuse me if I extend my work habits to this listserve. Since it's an 
unmoderated listserve, I can't deny that deceptive, ignorant, shameless 
and false statements have equal right to be published on UC-list.


That's what UC-list is best known for, among neighborhood movers and 
shakers who read the internet. It's the listserve where nobody who 
actually does anything around here, writes anything.


Do you disagree with me?

-- Tony West



"informative, observant and factual?" Did someone do a survey or is this just your 
"factual" opinion?

Frank
   



You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

[UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)

[Anthony West]

I don't think the Councilwoman reads UC-list posts personally. She's not 
a big internet fan (and who can blame her?). Of course, someone on her 
paid staff always monitors UC-list. Other politicians, with budgets to 
hire employees, can direct their employees to read UC-list, along with 
the other neighborhood lists. But none of them use it as an interactive 
communications medium. That's a fact.


Volunteer neighborhood activists have even less incentive to spend their 
free time dialoguing with cranks on UC-list. It doesn't pay. It's not 
that every UC-list subscriber is a crank. It's that the cranks 
increasingly drown out the discussion, so that normal neighbors have a 
hard time discussing normal neighborhood issues on this listserve in a 
normal manner. That's why people keep asking for advice on how to leave 
it. We don't see this phenomenon on UCNeighbors -- people begging for 
advice on how to unsubscribe.


People who have a reason to reach out to the most University City 
residents possible, should begin with the most-popular listerve, which 
is UCNeighbors. After that comes UC-list, then PFSNI.


-- Tony West


On 4/12/2010 6:56 PM, Alex de Soto wrote:
Trust me, Jannie Blackwell, Jim Roebuck, Committee and Ward Leaders 
are on this list and have been for a long time.

Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)

[Alex de Soto]

Well, Tony,

Since the listserv began in 1996 and the Internet not so long before,
University City was one of the first changing neighborhoods in the City of
Philadelphia to even HAVE so many on the Internet that we could even form a
listserv.

A prodigious achievement in this city that may now be taken for granted in
the era of the iPad.

Even though I predate you on the UC listserv, I recall being one of the
youngsters who were plugged in during the early 90¹s and knew about how to
use the Web.

I also recall the impetus of the Penn Mortgage Program in 1995 and no longer
having to show houses on Community Group Organized UC Saturday¹s.

THAT¹S when everything changed and could be discussed on the Web.

Beforehand, the same divergent points of view about community development
were done solely through 501-C3 associations, and were not accessible to the
entire community.

The UC Listserv has the distinction of being one of the first in this city
to make this happen, much to the chagrin of some.
-Wilma


On 4/12/10 6:11 PM, "Anthony West"  wrote:

> Mary,
> 
> I have been on this list since ~2001. I can name about about two dozen
> different community groups in the University City area, and I suspect I'm
> missing a few. Surely, during this time, a few of their leaders have lurked on
> UC-list.
> 
> But I don't recall seeing any group that utilizes UC-list as a posting
> mechanism. Therefore, it is not really a "source" of much "local information."
> Most activists I've talked to regard it more as a source of local
> misinformation. UC-list has become a talking shop dominated by people who know
> little and do nothing, but criticize big. Most activists say it's a waste of
> their unpaid volunteer time to read this list.
> 
> I was an outlier. During my presidency of Friends of Clark Park (2003-05), I
> found great value in Purple and I militantly pushed my organization to use
> Purple as an outreach medium. As everybody knows, I'm a dedicated Purple
> loyalist. But I found no imitators and, in fact, wound up wading through all
> sorts of muck as a result of standing by Purple. My effort was a waste of
> time, I say now in sorrow.
> 
> The core problem is that UC-list is unmoderated. As a result, in practice,
> it's a poor source of information -- an unsafe place in which to exchange
> information. It's a newspaper without an editor, a street without a cop.
> 
> Now there's a better product to serve the neighborhood. So that's where the
> better traffic is shifting. And that leaves even less to learn from UC-list.
> 
> FYI: Mr. Chance does not head a "civic association" but a "park support
> group". FoCP's mission is to communicate with park users. If you are curious
> about anything he does, and you authentically care about the park ...
> shouldn't you show up at his next public meeting? FoCP has a listserve of its
> own, which represents this community quite well in its own way. It's not his
> job to come to your list, if you want to learn something from him. "Community"
> is a two-way street.
> 
> -- Tony West
> 
> 
>>   
>>  Does anyone know why Mr. Chance does not subscribe to this listserve?  I
>> would expect the leader of a local civic association to be connected to as
>> many sources of local information and activities as possible.  What about our
>> other civic leaders (e.g. at the Spruce Hill Community Association, the UC
>> Historical Society and Cedar Park Neighbors) and our local politicians (Mrs.
>> Blackwell, for instance and ward leaders and committee members)?
>>  
>> Mary
>>  
> 
> 

Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)

[Frank Carroll]

On Apr 12, 2010, at 06:11 PM, Anthony West wrote:

> Most activists say it's a waste of their unpaid volunteer time to read this 
> list.

"informative, observant and factual?" Did someone do a survey or is this just 
your "factual" opinion?

Frank


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)

[campionef]

I found this an insulting and crazy making post
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-Original Message-
From: Anthony West 
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:11:04 
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com >> UnivCity listserv
Subject: [UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)

Mary,

I have been on this list since ~2001. I can name about about two dozen 
different community groups in the University City area, and I suspect 
I'm missing a few. Surely, during this time, a few of their leaders have 
lurked on UC-list.

But I don't recall seeing any group that utilizes UC-list as a posting 
mechanism. Therefore, it is not really a "source" of much "local 
information." Most activists I've talked to regard it more as a source 
of local misinformation. UC-list has become a talking shop dominated by 
people who know little and do nothing, but criticize big. Most activists 
say it's a waste of their unpaid volunteer time to read this list.

I was an outlier. During my presidency of Friends of Clark Park 
(2003-05), I found great value in Purple and I militantly pushed my 
organization to use Purple as an outreach medium. As everybody knows, 
I'm a dedicated Purple loyalist. But I found no imitators and, in fact, 
wound up wading through all sorts of muck as a result of standing by 
Purple. My effort was a waste of time, I say now in sorrow.

The core problem is that UC-list is unmoderated. As a result, in 
practice, it's a poor source of information -- an unsafe place in which 
to exchange information. It's a newspaper without an editor, a street 
without a cop.

Now there's a better product to serve the neighborhood. So that's where 
the better traffic is shifting. And that leaves even less to learn from 
UC-list.

FYI: Mr. Chance does not head a "civic association" but a "park support 
group". FoCP's mission is to communicate with park users. If you are 
curious about anything he does, and you authentically care about the 
park ... shouldn't you show up at his next public meeting? FoCP has a 
listserve of its own, which represents this community quite well in its 
own way. It's not his job to come to your list, if you want to learn 
something from him. "Community" is a two-way street.

-- Tony West


> Does anyone know why Mr. Chance does not subscribe to this listserve?  
> I would expect the leader of a local civic association to be connected 
> to as many sources of local information and activities as possible.  
> What about our other civic leaders (e.g. at the Spruce Hill Community 
> Association, the UC Historical Society and Cedar Park Neighbors) and 
> our local politicians (Mrs. Blackwell, for instance and ward leaders 
> and committee members)?
>
> Mary

[UC] why community activists avoid this list (Was: Re: FOCP response)

[Anthony West]

Mary,

I have been on this list since ~2001. I can name about about two dozen 
different community groups in the University City area, and I suspect 
I'm missing a few. Surely, during this time, a few of their leaders have 
lurked on UC-list.


But I don't recall seeing any group that utilizes UC-list as a posting 
mechanism. Therefore, it is not really a "source" of much "local 
information." Most activists I've talked to regard it more as a source 
of local misinformation. UC-list has become a talking shop dominated by 
people who know little and do nothing, but criticize big. Most activists 
say it's a waste of their unpaid volunteer time to read this list.


I was an outlier. During my presidency of Friends of Clark Park 
(2003-05), I found great value in Purple and I militantly pushed my 
organization to use Purple as an outreach medium. As everybody knows, 
I'm a dedicated Purple loyalist. But I found no imitators and, in fact, 
wound up wading through all sorts of muck as a result of standing by 
Purple. My effort was a waste of time, I say now in sorrow.


The core problem is that UC-list is unmoderated. As a result, in 
practice, it's a poor source of information -- an unsafe place in which 
to exchange information. It's a newspaper without an editor, a street 
without a cop.


Now there's a better product to serve the neighborhood. So that's where 
the better traffic is shifting. And that leaves even less to learn from 
UC-list.


FYI: Mr. Chance does not head a "civic association" but a "park support 
group". FoCP's mission is to communicate with park users. If you are 
curious about anything he does, and you authentically care about the 
park ... shouldn't you show up at his next public meeting? FoCP has a 
listserve of its own, which represents this community quite well in its 
own way. It's not his job to come to your list, if you want to learn 
something from him. "Community" is a two-way street.


-- Tony West


Does anyone know why Mr. Chance does not subscribe to this listserve?  
I would expect the leader of a local civic association to be connected 
to as many sources of local information and activities as possible.  
What about our other civic leaders (e.g. at the Spruce Hill Community 
Association, the UC Historical Society and Cedar Park Neighbors) and 
our local politicians (Mrs. Blackwell, for instance and ward leaders 
and committee members)?


Mary