Re: [UC] Fox Non-News

[William H. Magill]

On 09 Feb, 2005, at 16:37, Dubin, Elisabeth wrote:
Did anyone happen to catch a segment on Fox "News" last night regarding
a supposed dead-beat developer at 18th and Christian?  It seems from
what I've heard that the network reported the story without regard for
the facts, and I'm upset by it and wish I could somehow see the TV
segment.
The gist of it is that a friend of mine has been struggling valiantly
with the Zoning Board for almost a year to get the appropriate permits
to redevelop a 20-year abandoned post office into condominiums, and the
building has appeared to languish during this process.  Meanwhile, Fox
news reports that the developers "abandoned" the project and that it's
now a public nuisance.  The funny thing is that my friend finally did
just get the zoning permit, so work will begin immediately.
This sounds like what the University of Pennsylvania did with the 
failed Sundance Theater project -- by letting the property sit there 
"abandoned" for six months or so after the original partner went 
Bankrupt and while they searched for a new partner, the University was 
able to get the block declared "blighted" by the City and therefore 
eligible for all kinds of different "considerations" not available to 
the "non-blighted."

One wonders if the driving force behind such a news report was exactly 
that -- an attempt to get a "blighted" designation for the property ... 
to get the Zoning Board to approve the permit.

That would be the typical Philadelphia Way.
T.T.F.N.
William H. Magill
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [UC] Fox Non-News

[Elizabeth F. Campion]

Christine:

Sorry, but  zoning delays that last "for almost a year" are not S.O.P.
Either neighborhood questions had to be on the table or the "friend" was
slow to develop a plan.
Something called Fox News to the property and it was not my "horrible
accusations".

I found lots of irony in ED posting about this problem.
I am sorry it was lost on you.

I have attended several hearings each before the Zoning Board and before
the Historic Commission, and if you think that "The zoning board in
Philadelphia is NOTORIOUSLY political in its decision-making." Than I can
only guess at the capitalization needed to more extremely define the
political nature of the Historic Commission process.

My tone was forthright, and my guesses, defined as such, are informed by
the problems I encounter on a regular basis, in the course of helping
clients buy, sell, renovate and manage properties.

Your post is the one with glaring defects.
You try to put words in my mouth.
You miss the words I did write.
And you know nothing of my knowledge about the Naval Home Developement,
and guessed wrong.
As it happens, I own a property at the edge of the boundaries.
I get (and read) the Councilmanic Postings.
I belong to CCRA.
I have attended several community meetings and Realtor focus groups on
the developement.

You found my posting not "nice".
Be aware, that I consider the Pro-HDs not "nice".
They are trying to institute programs which unreasonably (and without
compensation) take away property rights that I (and my neighbors) already
hold.
So I react, in defense (not aggression), when the opportunity presents
itself to say... 
Enforce zoning and enforce existing building codes, but don't layer
additional and unreasonable limits, fees and regulations on my home
ownership or that of my neighbors, for the badly regulated and solely
aesthetic pleasure of the pro Historic busy bodies.

Liz


On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 23:30:59 -0500 "Christine Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Liz - 
>  
> There is no irony here.  At all.  
>  
> Let's try to understand a few things here: 
>  
> 1.  The zoning board in Philadelphia is NOTORIOUSLY political in its 
> decision-making. 
> 2.  Nearly any development will need a variance of some sort from 
> the zoning board.  Due to lack of design review for most 
> construction, the zoning board acts as a de facto design review 
> board, inappropriately.  
> 3.  Historic designation has absolutely nothing to do with this.  
>  
> As far as 1 and 2, this is an issue with all new development in 
> Philadelphia, and has been a prominant topic of discussion at ULI 
> (Urban Land Institute) events.  It is a known problem, and I think 
> that the City is aware of it, and is now trying to rectify it.  Do 
> you have any idea of how long Toll has had the Naval Home?  Do you 
> think that they wanted to be sitting on the property while waiting 
> for permits, wasting a pile of money on interest?  No, of course 
> not.  Developers like to get their permits, get the project done, 
> and move on, and Philadelphia is not well geared to accommodate 
> that.  
>  
> As for 3, I am not getting into that.  Read your ordinance, look at 
> the NPS website.  
>  
> Finally, Liz, you should be nicer.  You know nothing at all about 
> this "developer," and yet you make all of these horrible accusations 
> about him, assuming the absolute worst.  I do happen to know him, 
> and am offended by your rude, inconsiderate and uninformed 
> accusations.  Elisabeth wrote that message for information, not in 
> an attempt to provoke your tirade against her friend.  
>  
> Christine 


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RE: [UC] Fox Non-News

[Christine Miller]

Liz - 
 
There is no irony here.  At all.  
 
Let's try to understand a few things here: 
 
1.  The zoning board in Philadelphia is NOTORIOUSLY political in its 
decision-making. 
2.  Nearly any development will need a variance of some sort from the zoning 
board.  Due to lack of design review for most construction, the zoning board 
acts as a de facto design review board, inappropriately.  
3.  Historic designation has absolutely nothing to do with this.  
 
As far as 1 and 2, this is an issue with all new development in Philadelphia, 
and has been a prominant topic of discussion at ULI (Urban Land Institute) 
events.  It is a known problem, and I think that the City is aware of it, and 
is now trying to rectify it.  Do you have any idea of how long Toll has had the 
Naval Home?  Do you think that they wanted to be sitting on the property while 
waiting for permits, wasting a pile of money on interest?  No, of course not.  
Developers like to get their permits, get the project done, and move on, and 
Philadelphia is not well geared to accommodate that.  
 
As for 3, I am not getting into that.  Read your ordinance, look at the NPS 
website.  
 
Finally, Liz, you should be nicer.  You know nothing at all about this 
"developer," and yet you make all of these horrible accusations about him, 
assuming the absolute worst.  I do happen to know him, and am offended by your 
rude, inconsiderate and uninformed accusations.  Elisabeth wrote that message 
for information, not in an attempt to provoke your tirade against her friend.  
 
Christine 
 
 
 
 

-Original Message- 
From: Elizabeth F. Campion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wed 2/9/2005 7:22 PM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: Univcity@list.purple.com 
        Subject: Re: [UC] Fox Non-News




I can't resist pointing out this irony.

Below is a post by one of the "Pro-HD" who is upset at the injustice of
"Fox 'News'" and the "Zoning Board" for delays that left her friend
looking bad.

Try to forget that delays may have been due to resolving the fears of
neighbors who might have been worried that condominiumizing a vacant 
Post
Office might lead to problems associated with increased residential
density (parking, garbage and trash disposal, night noise, prolonged
construction, etc.)
But,  imagine compounding the friend's problems with HC commission 
review
and ...
Try to guess when the work would have begun.

Personally, I believe her friend (any developer) has an obligation to
keep the sidewalks swept and snow free and any flower boxes planted and
windows clean and intact, while waiting for any delays to be resolved.
Zoning disclosure is a condition of every sale in this State.  Her 
friend
knew (or should have known) the zoning before Settlement, in fact, 
before
signing of the agreement.  And, it is not fair for anyone to hold a
neighborhood hostage, while gambling on zoning change.

My experience is that the accusation of "dead beat" only kicks when
developer's (like Rappaport) use the deteriorating conditions at the
property to extort the concessions they want (whether for tax or zoning
or HC waiver, etc.) from the neighbors and the city.

So, while I don't know anything about this specific case, and maybe ED's
friend was a peach who maintained decent oversight over this wannabee
project, I suspect that Fox news got involved because neighbors were not
happy, because sidewalks were not shoveled and litter was left
unattended.

ED, provide the address and we can check out actual conditions for
ourselves.

Liz

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:37:47 -0500 "Dubin, Elisabeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Did anyone happen to catch a segment on Fox "News" last night
> regarding
> a supposed dead-beat developer at 18th and Christian?  It seems from
> what I've heard that the network reported the story without regard
> for
> the facts, and I'm upset by it and wish I could somehow see the TV
> segment.
> 
> The gist of it is that a friend of mine has been struggling
> valiantly
> with the Zoning Board for almost a year to get the appropriate
> permits
> to redevelop a 20-year abandoned post office into condominiums, and
> the
> building has appeared to languish during this process.  Meanwhile,
> Fox
> news reports that the developers "abandoned" the pro

Re: [UC] Fox Non-News

[Craigsolve]

In a message dated 2/9/2005 8:41:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ummm, well, no.  That's not even close to the real 
  situation.  But"A" for effort, though!

Let's not be dismissive. What are the facts? Or, is Cass now engaged in 
managing your PR?
 
Ciao,
 
Craig

RE: [UC] Fox Non-News

[Dubin, Elisabeth]

 
Ummm, well, no.  That's not even close to the real situation.  But
"A" for effort, though!



ELISABETH DUBIN
Hillier ARCHITECTURE
One South Penn Square, Philadelphia, PA 19107-3502 | T 215 636- | F
215 636-9989 | hillier.com

-Original Message-
From: Elizabeth F. Campion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 7:22 PM
To: Dubin, Elisabeth
Cc: Univcity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Fox Non-News


I can't resist pointing out this irony.

Below is a post by one of the "Pro-HD" who is upset at the injustice of
"Fox 'News'" and the "Zoning Board" for delays that left her friend
looking bad.

Try to forget that delays may have been due to resolving the fears of
neighbors who might have been worried that condominiumizing a vacant
Post Office might lead to problems associated with increased residential
density (parking, garbage and trash disposal, night noise, prolonged
construction, etc.) But,  imagine compounding the friend's problems with
HC commission review and ...
Try to guess when the work would have begun.

Personally, I believe her friend (any developer) has an obligation to
keep the sidewalks swept and snow free and any flower boxes planted and
windows clean and intact, while waiting for any delays to be resolved. 
Zoning disclosure is a condition of every sale in this State.  Her
friend knew (or should have known) the zoning before Settlement, in
fact, before signing of the agreement.  And, it is not fair for anyone
to hold a neighborhood hostage, while gambling on zoning change.

My experience is that the accusation of "dead beat" only kicks when
developer's (like Rappaport) use the deteriorating conditions at the
property to extort the concessions they want (whether for tax or zoning
or HC waiver, etc.) from the neighbors and the city.

So, while I don't know anything about this specific case, and maybe ED's
friend was a peach who maintained decent oversight over this wannabee
project, I suspect that Fox news got involved because neighbors were not
happy, because sidewalks were not shoveled and litter was left
unattended.

ED, provide the address and we can check out actual conditions for
ourselves.

Liz

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:37:47 -0500 "Dubin, Elisabeth"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Did anyone happen to catch a segment on Fox "News" last night 
> regarding a supposed dead-beat developer at 18th and Christian?  It 
> seems from what I've heard that the network reported the story without

> regard for the facts, and I'm upset by it and wish I could somehow see

> the TV segment.
>  
> The gist of it is that a friend of mine has been struggling valiantly 
> with the Zoning Board for almost a year to get the appropriate permits

> to redevelop a 20-year abandoned post office into condominiums, and 
> the building has appeared to languish during this process.  Meanwhile,

> Fox news reports that the developers "abandoned" the project and that 
> it's now a public nuisance.  The funny thing is that my friend finally

> did just get the zoning permit, so work will begin immediately.
>  
> Anyway, I'm curious if anyone saw it or, even more unlikely, TIVO'd 
> it?
>  
>  
> ELISABETH DUBIN
> Hillier ARCHITECTURE
> One South Penn Square, Philadelphia, PA 19107-3502 | T 215 636-
> | F
> 215 636-9989 | hillier.com





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Re: [UC] Fox Non-News

[Elizabeth F. Campion]

I can't resist pointing out this irony.

Below is a post by one of the "Pro-HD" who is upset at the injustice of
"Fox 'News'" and the "Zoning Board" for delays that left her friend
looking bad.

Try to forget that delays may have been due to resolving the fears of
neighbors who might have been worried that condominiumizing a vacant Post
Office might lead to problems associated with increased residential
density (parking, garbage and trash disposal, night noise, prolonged
construction, etc.)
But,  imagine compounding the friend's problems with HC commission review
and ...
Try to guess when the work would have begun.

Personally, I believe her friend (any developer) has an obligation to
keep the sidewalks swept and snow free and any flower boxes planted and
windows clean and intact, while waiting for any delays to be resolved. 
Zoning disclosure is a condition of every sale in this State.  Her friend
knew (or should have known) the zoning before Settlement, in fact, before
signing of the agreement.  And, it is not fair for anyone to hold a
neighborhood hostage, while gambling on zoning change.

My experience is that the accusation of "dead beat" only kicks when
developer's (like Rappaport) use the deteriorating conditions at the
property to extort the concessions they want (whether for tax or zoning
or HC waiver, etc.) from the neighbors and the city.

So, while I don't know anything about this specific case, and maybe ED's
friend was a peach who maintained decent oversight over this wannabee
project, I suspect that Fox news got involved because neighbors were not
happy, because sidewalks were not shoveled and litter was left
unattended.

ED, provide the address and we can check out actual conditions for
ourselves.

Liz

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:37:47 -0500 "Dubin, Elisabeth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Did anyone happen to catch a segment on Fox "News" last night 
> regarding
> a supposed dead-beat developer at 18th and Christian?  It seems from
> what I've heard that the network reported the story without regard 
> for
> the facts, and I'm upset by it and wish I could somehow see the TV
> segment.
>  
> The gist of it is that a friend of mine has been struggling 
> valiantly
> with the Zoning Board for almost a year to get the appropriate 
> permits
> to redevelop a 20-year abandoned post office into condominiums, and 
> the
> building has appeared to languish during this process.  Meanwhile, 
> Fox
> news reports that the developers "abandoned" the project and that 
> it's
> now a public nuisance.  The funny thing is that my friend finally 
> did
> just get the zoning permit, so work will begin immediately.  
>  
> Anyway, I'm curious if anyone saw it or, even more unlikely, TIVO'd 
> it?
>  
>  
> ELISABETH DUBIN
> Hillier ARCHITECTURE
> One South Penn Square, Philadelphia, PA 19107-3502 | T 215 636- 
> | F
> 215 636-9989 | hillier.com 


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