AW: AW: Don't understand unicode handling

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi Jacque,
thanks for the function update.
But if you don't know, what kind of encoding the source file is, it's still
trial and error, or is there any kind of "quickcheck" for the current source
encoding?
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von J. Landman Gay
Gesendet: Freitag, 20. Mai 2016 20:05
An: How to use LiveCode 
Betreff: Re: AW: Don't understand unicode handling

On 5/20/2016 12:53 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> Bonsoir Thierry,
>
> thank you for the helpful link, with your help, I found the right 
> conversion, though I don't understand what is going on :) For my issue 
> the solution was not to use uniEncode() when importing the file into 
> LC, but just putting the file into a field.
> But using uniDecode() when exporting it from LC.
>
> I think my problem is that you don't see what type of coding a file 
> has. If you have to handle with unknown data, you just have to try the 
> different combinations of encode/decode/do nothing with the data, 
> because a file has no label "I am UTF-8".

In LC 7 and above, the old unicode syntax is deprecated and the new encoding
syntax is easier to use. Whenever you import or export text you need to
translate it using the new textEncode and textDecode functions.

To bring unicode text into LC:

   get textDecode(,"UTF8")

and to export it:

   put textEncode(tText,"UTF8") into file 

If you are not sure what the unicode encoding is, it is almost always safe
to assume UTF-8. The dictionary has examples.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Positive Infinity forever

[Ali Lloyd]

Having fairly recently done a PhD in set theory, I can confirm that the
independence of the continuum hypothesis has not been refuted!

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 2:50 AM Mick Collins  wrote:

> (Try again, apologies for accidentally sending)
> ... typo
> When you said
> " 2^AJ=A(J+1)"
>
> I wonder if you meant
> "2^AJ   >=   A(J+1)"
>
> To many that may seem like nit-picking, but it is a NIT. However, if you
> MEANT what you wrote, then it is a YUGE NIT. It would mean that someone
> (Halmos?) found an extension of ZFC that trumps (sorry) Cohen's
> independence of CH. Is that the case?
>
>
> > On May 22, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Mick Collins  wrote:
> >
> > Doc Hawk,
> > I'm envious that you took a course from Halmos, but I question what is
> probably a typo.
> >
> > "Dr. Hawkins"  wrote:
> >
> > Well, which infinity?  aleph-naught (A0) is the count of the
> > integers/wholes/natural
> >
> > A1=2^A0, the count of the reals.
> >
> > For that mater 2^AJ=A(J+1)
> >
> > A1-A0=A1
> >
> > Aj^n=Aj
> >
> > A0 is also "countable"; A1 and higher are not.
> >
> >
> > Yes, I really took a course  on that, from the master himself (Halmos)
> >
> > -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
>
>
> --
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Re: Suspense

[Heather Laine]

That sounds like a lot. But there are other ways of crunching the numbers: we 
now have 304 backers. If every one put in another $55 each we're there. That 
doesn't sound so much...

Stop press, numbers are now 306 backers, and $53 more each needed. 

It's going to be an exciting ride today.

Fingers Crossed

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 22 May 2016, at 22:45, Mark Smith  wrote:
> 
> Heather Laine-2 wrote
>> Guys, I'm sitting here hitting refresh compulsively on the pledge page.
>> Are we there yet... We are so close to 40k. Who is going to push us over? 
> 
> Hahaha I know the feeling. But more seriously, you need $1,000 an hour for
> the next 19 hours to make the final goal. May the force be with you.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Suspense-tp4704926p4705037.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: AW: AW: Don't understand unicode handling

[Paul Dupuis]

I spoke to Fraser when LC7 came out about a lack of a guessTextEncoding
function.

See http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14474



On 5/23/2016 3:08 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> Hi Jacque,
> thanks for the function update.
> But if you don't know, what kind of encoding the source file is, it's still
> trial and error, or is there any kind of "quickcheck" for the current source
> encoding?
> Tiemo
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
> von J. Landman Gay
> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. Mai 2016 20:05
> An: How to use LiveCode 
> Betreff: Re: AW: Don't understand unicode handling
>
> On 5/20/2016 12:53 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
>> Bonsoir Thierry,
>>
>> thank you for the helpful link, with your help, I found the right 
>> conversion, though I don't understand what is going on :) For my issue 
>> the solution was not to use uniEncode() when importing the file into 
>> LC, but just putting the file into a field.
>> But using uniDecode() when exporting it from LC.
>>
>> I think my problem is that you don't see what type of coding a file 
>> has. If you have to handle with unknown data, you just have to try the 
>> different combinations of encode/decode/do nothing with the data, 
>> because a file has no label "I am UTF-8".
> In LC 7 and above, the old unicode syntax is deprecated and the new encoding
> syntax is easier to use. Whenever you import or export text you need to
> translate it using the new textEncode and textDecode functions.
>
> To bring unicode text into LC:
>
>get textDecode(,"UTF8")
>
> and to export it:
>
>put textEncode(tText,"UTF8") into file 
>
> If you are not sure what the unicode encoding is, it is almost always safe
> to assume UTF-8. The dictionary has examples.
>


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[ANN] This Week in LiveCode 34

[Peter TB Brett]

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source 
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!


 Read issue #34 here: https://goo.gl/UJnP7s


This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been 
going on in and around the open source project.  New issues will be 
released weekly on Mondays.  We have a dedicated mailing list that will 
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!


Are you doing something interesting with LiveCode Community Edition? 
Please get in touch and get it featured in "This Week in LiveCode"!


  Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode

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Re: Suspense

[Heather Laine]

That's Audio recording funded. Way to go folks! 

We're onto the third and last stretch goal: Native Field Object. Read all about 
it here and lets get this one done too :)

https://livecode.com/infinite-livecode-third-stretch-goal-mobile-native-field-widget/
 


Warm Regards,

Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 23 May 2016, at 10:42, Heather Laine  wrote:
> 
> That sounds like a lot. But there are other ways of crunching the numbers: we 
> now have 304 backers. If every one put in another $55 each we're there. That 
> doesn't sound so much...
> 
> Stop press, numbers are now 306 backers, and $53 more each needed. 
> 
> It's going to be an exciting ride today.
> 
> Fingers Crossed
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 22 May 2016, at 22:45, Mark Smith  wrote:
>> 
>> Heather Laine-2 wrote
>>> Guys, I'm sitting here hitting refresh compulsively on the pledge page.
>>> Are we there yet... We are so close to 40k. Who is going to push us over? 
>> 
>> Hahaha I know the feeling. But more seriously, you need $1,000 an hour for
>> the next 19 hours to make the final goal. May the force be with you.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Suspense-tp4704926p4705037.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
>> ___
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>> preferences:
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AW: AW: AW: Don't understand unicode handling

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Yes, that function is exactly, what I was looking for.
Fraser told to provide such a function, but I didn't see it yet.
Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Paul Dupuis
Gesendet: Montag, 23. Mai 2016 13:40
An: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Don't understand unicode handling

I spoke to Fraser when LC7 came out about a lack of a guessTextEncoding
function.

See http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14474



On 5/23/2016 3:08 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> Hi Jacque,
> thanks for the function update.
> But if you don't know, what kind of encoding the source file is, it's 
> still trial and error, or is there any kind of "quickcheck" for the 
> current source encoding?
> Tiemo
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im 
> Auftrag von J. Landman Gay
> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. Mai 2016 20:05
> An: How to use LiveCode 
> Betreff: Re: AW: Don't understand unicode handling
>
> On 5/20/2016 12:53 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
>> Bonsoir Thierry,
>>
>> thank you for the helpful link, with your help, I found the right 
>> conversion, though I don't understand what is going on :) For my 
>> issue the solution was not to use uniEncode() when importing the file 
>> into LC, but just putting the file into a field.
>> But using uniDecode() when exporting it from LC.
>>
>> I think my problem is that you don't see what type of coding a file 
>> has. If you have to handle with unknown data, you just have to try 
>> the different combinations of encode/decode/do nothing with the data, 
>> because a file has no label "I am UTF-8".
> In LC 7 and above, the old unicode syntax is deprecated and the new 
> encoding syntax is easier to use. Whenever you import or export text 
> you need to translate it using the new textEncode and textDecode
functions.
>
> To bring unicode text into LC:
>
>get textDecode(,"UTF8")
>
> and to export it:
>
>put textEncode(tText,"UTF8") into file 
>
> If you are not sure what the unicode encoding is, it is almost always 
> safe to assume UTF-8. The dictionary has examples.
>


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Re: AW: AW: AW: Don't understand unicode handling

[Paul Dupuis]

Unfortunately, no, one was never posted.

We're writing our own (since we needed one). It is still being tested
and refined, but when "done" (perhaps another couple weeks and
acknowledging that such a routine will never be 100% accurate), I will
try to post it to the bug report.


On 5/23/2016 8:07 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> Yes, that function is exactly, what I was looking for.
> Fraser told to provide such a function, but I didn't see it yet.
> Tiemo
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
> von Paul Dupuis
> Gesendet: Montag, 23. Mai 2016 13:40
> An: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Don't understand unicode handling
>
> I spoke to Fraser when LC7 came out about a lack of a guessTextEncoding
> function.
>
> See http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14474
>
>
>
> On 5/23/2016 3:08 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
>> Hi Jacque,
>> thanks for the function update.
>> But if you don't know, what kind of encoding the source file is, it's 
>> still trial and error, or is there any kind of "quickcheck" for the 
>> current source encoding?
>> Tiemo
>>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im 
>> Auftrag von J. Landman Gay
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. Mai 2016 20:05
>> An: How to use LiveCode 
>> Betreff: Re: AW: Don't understand unicode handling
>>
>> On 5/20/2016 12:53 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
>>> Bonsoir Thierry,
>>>
>>> thank you for the helpful link, with your help, I found the right 
>>> conversion, though I don't understand what is going on :) For my 
>>> issue the solution was not to use uniEncode() when importing the file 
>>> into LC, but just putting the file into a field.
>>> But using uniDecode() when exporting it from LC.
>>>
>>> I think my problem is that you don't see what type of coding a file 
>>> has. If you have to handle with unknown data, you just have to try 
>>> the different combinations of encode/decode/do nothing with the data, 
>>> because a file has no label "I am UTF-8".
>> In LC 7 and above, the old unicode syntax is deprecated and the new 
>> encoding syntax is easier to use. Whenever you import or export text 
>> you need to translate it using the new textEncode and textDecode
> functions.
>> To bring unicode text into LC:
>>
>>get textDecode(,"UTF8")
>>
>> and to export it:
>>
>>put textEncode(tText,"UTF8") into file 
>>
>> If you are not sure what the unicode encoding is, it is almost always 
>> safe to assume UTF-8. The dictionary has examples.
>>
>
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AW: AW: AW: AW: Don't understand unicode handling

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

I would appreciate it!

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
von Paul Dupuis
Gesendet: Montag, 23. Mai 2016 14:25
An: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: Don't understand unicode handling

Unfortunately, no, one was never posted.

We're writing our own (since we needed one). It is still being tested and
refined, but when "done" (perhaps another couple weeks and acknowledging
that such a routine will never be 100% accurate), I will try to post it to
the bug report.


On 5/23/2016 8:07 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> Yes, that function is exactly, what I was looking for.
> Fraser told to provide such a function, but I didn't see it yet.
> Tiemo
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im 
> Auftrag von Paul Dupuis
> Gesendet: Montag, 23. Mai 2016 13:40
> An: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Don't understand unicode handling
>
> I spoke to Fraser when LC7 came out about a lack of a 
> guessTextEncoding function.
>
> See http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14474
>
>
>
> On 5/23/2016 3:08 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
>> Hi Jacque,
>> thanks for the function update.
>> But if you don't know, what kind of encoding the source file is, it's 
>> still trial and error, or is there any kind of "quickcheck" for the 
>> current source encoding?
>> Tiemo
>>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im 
>> Auftrag von J. Landman Gay
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 20. Mai 2016 20:05
>> An: How to use LiveCode 
>> Betreff: Re: AW: Don't understand unicode handling
>>
>> On 5/20/2016 12:53 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
>>> Bonsoir Thierry,
>>>
>>> thank you for the helpful link, with your help, I found the right 
>>> conversion, though I don't understand what is going on :) For my 
>>> issue the solution was not to use uniEncode() when importing the 
>>> file into LC, but just putting the file into a field.
>>> But using uniDecode() when exporting it from LC.
>>>
>>> I think my problem is that you don't see what type of coding a file 
>>> has. If you have to handle with unknown data, you just have to try 
>>> the different combinations of encode/decode/do nothing with the 
>>> data, because a file has no label "I am UTF-8".
>> In LC 7 and above, the old unicode syntax is deprecated and the new 
>> encoding syntax is easier to use. Whenever you import or export text 
>> you need to translate it using the new textEncode and textDecode
> functions.
>> To bring unicode text into LC:
>>
>>get textDecode(,"UTF8")
>>
>> and to export it:
>>
>>put textEncode(tText,"UTF8") into file 
>>
>> If you are not sure what the unicode encoding is, it is almost always 
>> safe to assume UTF-8. The dictionary has examples.
>>
>
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When is message passing required?

[Paul Dupuis]

In LiveCode some messages must be passed to the engine for the engine's
normal processing of the message. And with current versions of LC you
have the very handy 'pass  to top' to send it directly to the
engine.

For example, rawkeyDown must be passed for LiveCode to handle key
presses other than what you are trapping (unless you want all keypresses
trapped). Some message line preOpenStack you don't need to pass. The
stack still opens without passing a preOpenStack to the the engine.

Does anyone have a compiled list of which messages need to be passed or
*should* be passed vs those that you do not have to concern yourself with?

In some dictionary entries, like for rawKeyDown, it talks about the need
to pass the message (unless you want to trap all key presses). In other
dictionary entries it is not clear whether the message needs to be
passed or not. I am not sure that if it doesn't state one way or another
assuming one way or another is wise.

I know there have been some excellent flow charts of LiveCode's message
passing hierarchy (Richard Gaskin's comes to mind) but I don't recall
seeing any summation of which messages should be passed vs which do not
need to be?


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Re: Suspense

[Earthednet-wp]

Heather,
I had intended to increase my $100 pledge to $200. I put in s second pledge at 
$100, assuming it would add to the previous $100. True? If not, it is my 
intention to pledge $200 total.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On May 23, 2016, at 5:00 AM, Heather Laine  wrote:
> 
> That's Audio recording funded. Way to go folks! 
> 
> We're onto the third and last stretch goal: Native Field Object. Read all 
> about it here and lets get this one done too :)
> 
> https://livecode.com/infinite-livecode-third-stretch-goal-mobile-native-field-widget/
>  
> 
> 
> Warm Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 23 May 2016, at 10:42, Heather Laine  wrote:
>> 
>> That sounds like a lot. But there are other ways of crunching the numbers: 
>> we now have 304 backers. If every one put in another $55 each we're there. 
>> That doesn't sound so much...
>> 
>> Stop press, numbers are now 306 backers, and $53 more each needed. 
>> 
>> It's going to be an exciting ride today.
>> 
>> Fingers Crossed
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22 May 2016, at 22:45, Mark Smith  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine-2 wrote
 Guys, I'm sitting here hitting refresh compulsively on the pledge page.
 Are we there yet... We are so close to 40k. Who is going to push us over?
>>> 
>>> Hahaha I know the feeling. But more seriously, you need $1,000 an hour for
>>> the next 19 hours to make the final goal. May the force be with you.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: 
>>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Suspense-tp4704926p4705037.html
>>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
>> 
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Re: When is message passing required?

[Mike Kerner]

You only need to pass a message if you don't want another handler for that
message to possibly get in the way.  If you don't have a keyDown handler in
any of your scripts in the message path, the engine will get and handle it.

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Paul Dupuis  wrote:

> In LiveCode some messages must be passed to the engine for the engine's
> normal processing of the message. And with current versions of LC you
> have the very handy 'pass  to top' to send it directly to the
> engine.
>
> For example, rawkeyDown must be passed for LiveCode to handle key
> presses other than what you are trapping (unless you want all keypresses
> trapped). Some message line preOpenStack you don't need to pass. The
> stack still opens without passing a preOpenStack to the the engine.
>
> Does anyone have a compiled list of which messages need to be passed or
> *should* be passed vs those that you do not have to concern yourself with?
>
> In some dictionary entries, like for rawKeyDown, it talks about the need
> to pass the message (unless you want to trap all key presses). In other
> dictionary entries it is not clear whether the message needs to be
> passed or not. I am not sure that if it doesn't state one way or another
> assuming one way or another is wise.
>
> I know there have been some excellent flow charts of LiveCode's message
> passing hierarchy (Richard Gaskin's comes to mind) but I don't recall
> seeing any summation of which messages should be passed vs which do not
> need to be?
>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Suspense

[Heather Laine]

When you update a pledge, you should enter the new total you want to pledge. So 
if you originally pledged $100, it should show that in the box, and you then 
enter 200 (no dollar sign!) instead of 100.

Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 23 May 2016, at 14:58, Earthednet-wp  wrote:
> 
> Heather,
> I had intended to increase my $100 pledge to $200. I put in s second pledge 
> at $100, assuming it would add to the previous $100. True? If not, it is my 
> intention to pledge $200 total.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
> 
>> On May 23, 2016, at 5:00 AM, Heather Laine  wrote:
>> 
>> That's Audio recording funded. Way to go folks! 
>> 
>> We're onto the third and last stretch goal: Native Field Object. Read all 
>> about it here and lets get this one done too :)
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/infinite-livecode-third-stretch-goal-mobile-native-field-widget/
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Warm Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23 May 2016, at 10:42, Heather Laine  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That sounds like a lot. But there are other ways of crunching the numbers: 
>>> we now have 304 backers. If every one put in another $55 each we're there. 
>>> That doesn't sound so much...
>>> 
>>> Stop press, numbers are now 306 backers, and $53 more each needed. 
>>> 
>>> It's going to be an exciting ride today.
>>> 
>>> Fingers Crossed
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 22 May 2016, at 22:45, Mark Smith  wrote:
 
 Heather Laine-2 wrote
> Guys, I'm sitting here hitting refresh compulsively on the pledge page.
> Are we there yet... We are so close to 40k. Who is going to push us over?
 
 Hahaha I know the feeling. But more seriously, you need $1,000 an hour for
 the next 19 hours to make the final goal. May the force be with you.
 
 Mark
 
 
 
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Suspense-tp4704926p4705037.html
 Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
 
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>>> 
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Server Glitch - You Can Pledge Again Now

[Heather Laine]

Folks, we had a server glitch which meant you were unable to log in to place a 
pledge (the server that handles logins went down). This has now been fixed, you 
can log in again now, and continue backing this vital project. If you tried to 
pledge in the last 2 hours, and couldn't log in, please try again now!

It's amazing how these things happen at just the worst possible times...

Warm Regards,

Heather



Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com




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Re: When is message passing required?

[Mike Kerner]

Paul - as a followup to that, do you understand the difference between
"pass" and "send"?  If you want only the engine, or some other component to
handle a message, you would "send" it.  If you want a handler to let a
message continue up the chain so that another handler can deal with it, you
can "pass" it.

If you want fine-grained control, make sure you understand the position of
your handler in the path, especially with front and backscripts also
getting a voice.

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Mike Kerner 
wrote:

> You only need to pass a message if you don't want another handler for that
> message to possibly get in the way.  If you don't have a keyDown handler in
> any of your scripts in the message path, the engine will get and handle it.
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Paul Dupuis 
> wrote:
>
>> In LiveCode some messages must be passed to the engine for the engine's
>> normal processing of the message. And with current versions of LC you
>> have the very handy 'pass  to top' to send it directly to the
>> engine.
>>
>> For example, rawkeyDown must be passed for LiveCode to handle key
>> presses other than what you are trapping (unless you want all keypresses
>> trapped). Some message line preOpenStack you don't need to pass. The
>> stack still opens without passing a preOpenStack to the the engine.
>>
>> Does anyone have a compiled list of which messages need to be passed or
>> *should* be passed vs those that you do not have to concern yourself with?
>>
>> In some dictionary entries, like for rawKeyDown, it talks about the need
>> to pass the message (unless you want to trap all key presses). In other
>> dictionary entries it is not clear whether the message needs to be
>> passed or not. I am not sure that if it doesn't state one way or another
>> assuming one way or another is wise.
>>
>> I know there have been some excellent flow charts of LiveCode's message
>> passing hierarchy (Richard Gaskin's comes to mind) but I don't recall
>> seeing any summation of which messages should be passed vs which do not
>> need to be?
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: When is message passing required?

[Kay C Lan]

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Paul Dupuis  wrote:

> In some dictionary entries, like for rawKeyDown, it talks about the need
> to pass the message (unless you want to trap all key presses).

The Dictionary entry for 'pass' also mentions the need to pass
'setprop' if you have custom properties that are set via setprop
handlers.

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Re: Avoiding a stupid mistake

[Bob Sneidar]

I wouldn't call it a limitation, RM. Otherwise we would have to call fire a 
limiting development in the evolution of cooking. LC allows a developer to do 
anything with the file system that the OS would allow. It just may not be 
immediately obvious what that is until it's too late. 

It's for issues like this that I have gotten into the habit of putting 
everything into variables first (file paths in this case) and then steppign 
through the code at least once examining all the variables as I go to make sure 
they contain what I expect them to. I've caught some doozies this way. 

Bob S


> On May 22, 2016, at 09:00 , RM  wrote:
> 
> Ha, Ha, Ha: I'm sure that everybody is dumb enough to do that at least once.
> 
> I know that I, being extra skilled, have done it (deleting things 
> accidentally)  . . . at least . . . oh, dear, I seem to have run out of 
> fingers and toes.
> 
> Deleting anything may lead to regrets later: hence  I have about 6 1 terabyte 
> hard drives in external containers containing
> stuff going back to 1993.
> 
> This also points out the limitations of 'transparent' cross-platform 
> development.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 22.05.2016 18:31, Graham Samuel wrote:
>> Just for general interest -
>> 
>> I wanted to delete the Preferences folder for an app I’m working on, so I 
>> scripted a button as follows:
>> 
>>get specialFolderPath("preferences")
>>revdeletefolder it
>> 
>> What I’d forgotten was that on the Mac version, my preferences were not in a 
>> folder dedicated to my app, but just stored in a folder called ‘Preferences’ 
>> with all the preferences of all other apps for my whole library! So the 
>> result of pressing this button was to delete all the preferences from the 
>> machine! Luckily Time Machine came to my aid… but the point is, nothing 
>> stopped my script from executing.
>> 
>> Of course nobody else would be dumb enough to do this, but just in case…
>> 
>> Graham

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Bad Crash on Windows using LC8

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

yesterday I was mentoring  a newbie with LC 8 stable on Windows.

Via Skype, he shared his screen. and we went throught the process of building a 
stack, making groups setting them as background, putting scripts into the stack 
scripts and calling from button etc.

He uses MSWord and PowerPoint and Excel most of his day… and has the habit of 
doing frequent backups by using "Save As" and adding/appending a version 
number-date in the file name and then keeps working in the new document.

He saved the stack then did a "Save As" and then "the pea soup hit the fan" as 
LC when into an infinite loop saying that there was already a stack in memory, 
please purge.. Cancel, Purge Save buttons in the dialog were all unresponsive 
and we were sitting there a bit aghast as LC keep looping and flashing through 
this, re-rendering/flashing the stack in the background and the dialog box on 
screen. Attempts to hit cancel did nothing. Control-dot interrupt did nothing…  
He had to kill the process.

Fortunately the stack had been "Saved As" and so now he did have the document 
in it's last iteration + the one he had saved as… and neither were corrupt. But 
it was a scary moment… and not a very good experience for a new user of the 
software.

I am unable to replicate this on my mac.. though I have had a number of 
instances where if you choose "Close and Removed from Memory"  later in the 
session if you open that stack the IDE tells me that the stack is still in 
memory and do I want to purge it… this seems somehow related.

Anyone else getting this? has it been reported already?

BR

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Re: And while I'm at it...

[Bob Sneidar]

Okay I think I see now why my closeStack handler never got triggered in the 
mainStack. The closeStack handler is in the card script! The current card of 
the mainstack is not in the message path. Interesting little quirk, but I see 
the advantages. The card script will only see closeStack messages for the stack 
it's in. The stack script will see ALL of them, including substack closeStack 
messages (if passed). 

 My brain is not big enough to wrap itself around all the little 
idiosynchracies of LC. Not complaining, just saying. 

Bob S


> On May 22, 2016, at 04:45 , Kay C Lan  wrote:
> 
> In your Mainstack, as part of it's stack script, can't you have,
> within a closeStack handler that already exists or just add one:
> 
> if then number of lines of openstacks() = 2 then show stack "Mainstack"
> 
> 2 assumes that you aren't using any other stacks as toolbars or some
> such and this is in a standalone - in the IDE the number will be much
> higher depending on what you have open, but easy enough to determine.
> So assuming you have a standalone with a Mainstack and two Substacks,
> when you close a Substack openstacks() will report 3 as the substack
> isn't actually closed until the closeStack handler completes. When you
> close the last remaining substack, openstacks() will report 2, the
> Mainstack will be shown and then the Substack will be closed - but
> it's so quick it appears to be instantaneous.
> 
> This is pretty basic. If you are using toolbars, plugins or other
> things so it's not that simple to test the number of openstacks,
> openstacks() actually gives you the names so a more complex test could
> be carried out based on the existence or lack thereof of names in the
> list. As long as your test is carried out in the closestack handler of
> the stack script of the mainstack, every time a stack is closed you
> will be able to test if it's appropriate to show your Mainstack.
> 
> HTH
> 
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Re: And while I'm at it...

[Bob Sneidar]

It's okay, I only hear/read what people mean, not what they say/type.

Bob S


On May 22, 2016, at 04:48 , Kay C Lan 
mailto:lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com>> wrote:

UUrggh, typo:

if THE number of lines of openstacks() = 2 then show stack "Mainstack"

Why is it that I can only spell AFTER I've pressed the Send button!!

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Re: When is message passing required?

[J. Landman Gay]

On May 23, 2016 8:15:52 AM Paul Dupuis  wrote:


Does anyone have a compiled list of which messages need to be passed or
*should* be passed vs those that you do not have to concern yourself with?


There's no real rule about it, it all depends on the stack and it's own set 
of handlers. In some cases you want the message passed so that another 
handler can continue to process the message, and in other cases you don't 
want to do that because further processing isn't wanted or needed. And if 
there aren't any other handlers in the message path that process the 
message then it doesn't matter if you pass it or not.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



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Up the ante

[Bob Sneidar]

For what it's worth I just x5 my pledge (granted what I initially pledged 
wasn't a whole helluvalot but neither is what I make for a living). 

Bob S
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RE: Bad Crash on Windows using LC8

[Ralph DiMola]

This "Save as" issue has been around for a long time(4/5/6/7/8). You can "Save 
as" and have no problem or suddenly the " already a stack in memory, please 
purge.." pops up or other times it happen immediately. And yes it always saves 
the stack correctly. I do version control by either "Save as" and then close LC 
and re-open or by coping the stack outside of LC and then do a standard issue 
"Save" (my preference).

This seem to be one of those hard to pin down things like the "Variable Shadows 
another..." issue.

I don't see a bug report for this.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 11:09 AM
To: How LiveCode
Subject: Bad Crash on Windows using LC8

yesterday I was mentoring  a newbie with LC 8 stable on Windows.

Via Skype, he shared his screen. and we went throught the process of building a 
stack, making groups setting them as background, putting scripts into the stack 
scripts and calling from button etc.

He uses MSWord and PowerPoint and Excel most of his day… and has the habit of 
doing frequent backups by using "Save As" and adding/appending a version 
number-date in the file name and then keeps working in the new document.

He saved the stack then did a "Save As" and then "the pea soup hit the fan" as 
LC when into an infinite loop saying that there was already a stack in memory, 
please purge.. Cancel, Purge Save buttons in the dialog were all unresponsive 
and we were sitting there a bit aghast as LC keep looping and flashing through 
this, re-rendering/flashing the stack in the background and the dialog box on 
screen. Attempts to hit cancel did nothing. Control-dot interrupt did nothing…  
He had to kill the process.

Fortunately the stack had been "Saved As" and so now he did have the document 
in it's last iteration + the one he had saved as… and neither were corrupt. But 
it was a scary moment… and not a very good experience for a new user of the 
software.

I am unable to replicate this on my mac.. though I have had a number of 
instances where if you choose "Close and Removed from Memory"  later in the 
session if you open that stack the IDE tells me that the stack is still in 
memory and do I want to purge it… this seems somehow related.

Anyone else getting this? has it been reported already?

BR

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Re: positive infinity forever

[Mick Collins]

Thanks, Ali! And Congratulations!

Ali Lloyd wrote:
> 
> Having fairly recently done a PhD in set theory, I can confirm that the 
> independence of the continuum hypothesis has not been refuted!

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RE: Storing and retrieving data from a SQL database

[Ralph DiMola]

I know I'm late to the game... When I'm working with binary data
(non-parameterized queries) all I escape on insert/update is the single
quote. Nothing to be done when reading. I've had no problem
storing/retrieving binary data using SQLite/MySQL.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Peter Haworth
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 1:24 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Storing and retrieving data from a SQL database

Glad you figured it out Paul.

I'll check out the SQLiteAdmin problem.

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 7:48 AM Paul Dupuis  wrote:

> On 5/20/2016 10:38 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
> > Tabs shouldn't be a problem so I suspect something else.
> >
> > Have you tried using LC to select the data after updating it?  As
> mentioned
> > in an earlier post, if you use revDataFromQuery to do the SELECT, be 
> > sure to use something other than tab/return for the column/row
delimiters.
>
> There was a bug in my code (typo in a variable name). Query parameters 
> do handle tabs just fine.
>
> Thank you for walking me through the move to using parametrized queries.
> I've been doing SQL in Livecode for ... many years .. but never tried 
> query parameters before.
>
> > I'm wondering if whatever program you used to "directly check" the 
> > data
> has
> > a problem with the tabs (fingers crossed it wasn't SQLiteAdmin!).
>
> I am using SQLiteAdmin 1.3.6 (and generally love the tool!). I did 
> just notice, when using it to help debug this issue, that I could not 
> paste text from the clip board into a field when entering a new record.
>
>
>
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Re: When is message passing required?

[Richard Gaskin]

Paul Dupuis wrote:
> Does anyone have a compiled list of which messages need to be passed
> or *should* be passed vs those that you do not have to concern
> yourself with?

"Should" is a tough thing to define, since it'll vary by use.

I usually suggest to newcomers to the language that they develop a habit 
of passing everything unless they know why they don't want to.


That guidance is often useful, since if something downstream needs the 
message it'll get it, but if nothing needs it no harm is done.


With frontScripts, I believe a stronger recommendation is needed, since 
those play a very special role:  always pass messages in frontScripts. 
Any exception to that must be very carefully considered, and is usually 
wrong.  Not always wrong, but often enough that problems will usually 
result from not passing messages trapped in a frontScript.  Only experts 
operating in highly unusual circumstances should feel comfortable 
trapping a message in a frontScript without passing it.


But for everything else, there's usually no harm in passing, so it's 
rarely a bad choice when in doubt.


And when there is it's usually because of conscious choices the 
developer has already made (such as overriding centralized handling of a 
certain message in a group, card, stack, or behavior script), so they'll 
know what they want to do.


There are a few messages for which passing or not passing has very 
direct consequences, an inherent part of the decision-making we need to 
do as coders.


CloseStackRequest is one of these.  It's sent when the user clicks the 
close box of a stack, and it used to respond to that action to determine 
if the window should indeed be allowed to close.  Most often this is 
used with a prompt to save document or DB data, with an option to cancel 
the close action.  When canceled, not passing the message prevents the 
window from closing, which is what we want.  And if the user chooses to 
save or not save, we can save if requested and then simply pass the 
message to allow the close action to complete naturally.


In a very broad sense one might see the keyDown/rawKeyDown messages in a 
similar light, since passing them allows the user action to complete 
naturally.


But since the option to pass or not pass will depend on the specifics at 
hand, I'm not sure I could recommend we "always" pass those.


Like the rest of life, coding involves a variety of circumstances that 
require us to think on our feet, read what we can to inform our 
decisions, and sometimes experiment to make sure we get what we're 
looking for.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: When is message passing required?

[dunbarx]

I think the question is being asked "backwards".


If you trap a message, it will die in that handler unless passed explicitly. 
This is simple to understand  for the"mousdUp" message, say, because that is 
trapped for a specific reason, and may or may not be passed, as required. 


But with "keyDown", the action taken also disrupts what most would consider an 
automatic engine action, apart, perhaps, from any specific additional user 
action. So the "automatic" action will not take place unless the message is 
passed, and this lack of function trips up new users.


But there is no intrinsic difference, only that the expectations of the user 
are different.


Craig Newman



-Original Message-
From: J. Landman Gay 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2016 11:31 am
Subject: Re: When is message passing required?

On May 23, 2016 8:15:52 AM Paul Dupuis  wrote:

> Does anyone have a compiled list of which messages need to be passed or
> *should* be passed vs those that you do not have to concern yourself with?

There's no real rule about it, it all depends on the stack and it's own set 
of handlers. In some cases you want the message passed so that another 
handler can continue to process the message, and in other cases you don't 
want to do that because further processing isn't wanted or needed. And if 
there aren't any other handlers in the message path that process the 
message then it doesn't matter if you pass it or not.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



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Re: When is message passing required?

[Peter M. Brigham]

On May 23, 2016, at 11:03 AM, Kay C Lan wrote:

> On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Paul Dupuis  wrote:
> 
>> In some dictionary entries, like for rawKeyDown, it talks about the need
>> to pass the message (unless you want to trap all key presses).
> 
> The Dictionary entry for 'pass' also mentions the need to pass
> 'setprop' if you have custom properties that are set via setprop
> handlers.

Although, there is the well-known technique of deliberately not passing a 
get/setprop message, turning the property into a "virtual property" -- so 
actions are taken but no custom property of any object is actually set. For 
instance:

getprop writable
     a virtual field property  
   -- writable = true if locktext = false, traversalon = true, autohilite = true
   -- ie, user can enter text
   
   if not (the target begins with "field") then return empty
   put the locktext of the target into L
   put the traversalon of the target into T
   put the autohilite of the target into A
   if T and A and not L then return true
   return false
end writable

setprop writable tf
     a virtual field property  
   -- writable = true: set locktext = false, traversalon = true, autohilite = 
true
   -- ie, user can enter text
   -- writable = false: set locktext = true, traversalon = false, autohilite = 
false
   
   if not (the target begins with "field") then exit writable
   set the locktext of the target to not tf
   set the traversalon of the target to tf
   set the autohilite of the target to tf
end writable

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com


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Re: HTML5 standalone from Livecode 8.0.1

[Robert Mann]

No angry bird, just peace here!

on safari 5.1.6 os X 10.7.4

Exception thrown, see javascript console :
ANGRY.html:177run() called, but dependencies remain, so not running
ANGRY.html:177pre-main prep time: 416 ms
standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1ReferenceError: Can't find variable:
Uint8ClampedArray

On chrome  49.0.2623.112 (64-bit) same problem.. though more infos!

standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1 XMLHttpRequest cannot load
file://localhost/Users/Robert/Downloads/ANGRY/standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.html.mem.
Cross origin requests are only supported for protocol schemes: http, data,
chrome, chrome-extension, https, chrome-extension-resource.Browser.xhrLoad @
standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:48 Uncaught could not load memory
initializer standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.html.memBrowser.xhrLoad @
standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 [post-exception status] Preparing... (0/2)Module.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 run() called, but dependencies remain, so not
runningModule.printErr @ ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 still waiting on run dependencies:Module.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: memory initializerModule.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: al
standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.html.memModule.printErr @ ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 (end of list)Module.printErr @ ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 still waiting on run dependencies:Module.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: memory initializerModule.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: al
standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.html.memModule.printErr @ ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 (end of list)Module.printErr @ ANGRY.html:177
ANGRY.html:177 still waiting on run dependencies:Module.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177(anonymous function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: memory initializerModule.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177(anonymous function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: al
standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.html.memModule.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177(anonymous function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 (end of list)Module.printErr @ ANGRY.html:177(anonymous
function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 still waiting on run dependencies:Module.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177(anonymous function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: memory initializerModule.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177(anonymous function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: al
standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.html.memModule.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177(anonymous function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 (end of list)Module.printErr @ ANGRY.html:177(anonymous
function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 still waiting on run dependencies:Module.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177(anonymous function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: memory initializerModule.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177(anonymous function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 dependency: al
standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.html.memModule.printErr @
ANGRY.html:177(anonymous function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1
ANGRY.html:177 (end of list)Module.printErr @ ANGRY.html:177(anonymous
function) @ standalone-community-8.0.1-rc-1.js:1



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Re: Cloning a SQLite (or any SQL) database

[Bob Sneidar]

Not so. I use MySQLWorkbench from a remote computer to save the database 
locally on my laptop all the time. However, large SQL databases might be very 
time consuming to do remotely.

I have a Database Setup card which is capable of copying the data from one SQL 
database to another using queries, and as it connects to the database, it saves 
an array of the database schema, so that it can be recreated in case the 
database goes the way of the dodo.

I'd share it, but it is not fully functional in all respects, and I have not 
really fully tested and debugged it. But it's not too dificult to do something 
like this.

Bob S


On May 22, 2016, at 23:04 , Kay C Lan 
mailto:lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If memory serves me I think the only limitation is you must be doing
this on the same machine as the MySQL server, you can't do it over a
network connection.


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Re: Positive Infinity forever

[Bob Sneidar]

The only thing that is certain about infinity is that it will remain a 
theoretical abstract forever. ;-)

Bob S


On May 23, 2016, at 01:35 , Ali Lloyd 
mailto:ali.ll...@livecode.com>> wrote:

Having fairly recently done a PhD in set theory, I can confirm that the
independence of the continuum hypothesis has not been refuted!

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[ANN] Release 8.1.0 DP 1

[panagiotis merakos]

Dear list members,
We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0-dp-1, the first
development preview of LiveCode 8.1.

Developer Preview Release
=
Warning: this is not a stable release.  Please ensure that you back up your
stacks before testing them.


Getting the Release
===
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.


Release Contents

New Windows player control
--
The player control on Windows no longer uses QuickTime.  There is no longer
any need to install QuickTime to play media on Windows.

Standalone builder improvements
---
* The standalone builder now has an "Inclusions" page which lets you select
externals, script libraries and extensions to include in your standalone in
a single place for all platforms
* The "search for inclusions" mechanism in the standalone builder now works
for all platforms and includes extensions and widgets
* For iOS deployment, you can now add custom entitlements without having to
poke around inside the LiveCode app bundle

LiveCode Builder improvements
-
Variables in LiveCode Builder are now automatically initialised to a
suitable default value.


Known issues

* HTML5 standalones do not currently work when they contain extensions with
dependencies
* 64-bit standalones for Mac OS X do not have support for audio recording
or the revVideoGrabber external
* The Windows player controls "skip forward" and "skip backward" buttons do
not work reliably (bug 17698), the default video is in .mov format which is
not supported by DirectShow (bug 17696), and several player properties have
not yet been implemented (see release notes)
* The player sometimes displays video unreliably on OS X (bug 17697)


Feedback

Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at
http://quality.livecode.com/


Have fun!
The LiveCode Team
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Re: When is message passing required?

[Paul Dupuis]

First, thanks for all the responses, but I should have been clearer.

I do know the LC message hierarchy and I know the difference between
pass, send, dispatch, etc.

What I was looking for is which messages, if intercepted, prevent a
normally expected action in LiveCode. Richard's example of
"CloseStackRequest" or my example of "rawKeyDown" fit this bill.

"Normally" (and yes that can be subjective), you expect key presses to
cause characters to appear or clicking in a closebox of a window to
close the window. If the messages corresponding to those are trapped
without passing the message, the event/action is not performed by the
engine.

This was an exercise in curiosity, not any particular coding problem. I
was curious if anyone has compiled a list of those messages that the
engine would perform a default action if the message is not trapped.





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Re: When is message passing required?

[Richard Gaskin]

Paul Dupuis wrote:
> "Normally" (and yes that can be subjective), you expect key presses to
> cause characters to appear or clicking in a closebox of a window to
> close the window. If the messages corresponding to those are trapped
> without passing the message, the event/action is not performed by the
> engine.

There's the difference between keyDown and keyUp, and where many people 
fond of HyperCard find themselves needing to learn new things but in 
ways most of us here welcome:


LiveCode has extended the scope of its messages to provide a granularity 
unmatched by perhaps even the most comprehensive xTalk eer. Sybase Gain 
Momentum.


With LiveCode we can choose to handle either the moment before the key 
is rendered in the field (keyDown) or after (keyUp).


Both are useful of course, but for different circumstances.

But to address the original question, I don't believe I've seen a 
catalog of messages categorized by implications of passing or not 
passing.  And since the implications vary so much from message to 
message, I'm unable to conceive of what those categories might look like.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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RE: Suspense

[Ralph DiMola]

I just upped again. We're SO... close now.
If we get very close like 90%+ adding a couple of days would not be the
worst idea.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

Folks, we had a server glitch which meant you were unable to log in to place
a pledge (the server that handles logins went down). This has now been
fixed, you can log in again now, and continue backing this vital project. If
you tried to pledge in the last 2 hours, and couldn't log in, please try
again now!

It's amazing how these things happen at just the worst possible times...

Warm Regards,

Heather



Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com


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RE: Suspense

[Dave Kilroy]

Less than $10k to go ... 64 minutes and counting...

https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode/



-
"The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the 
other 90% of the time."
Peter M. Brigham 
--
View this message in context: 
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Re: Suspense

[Devin Asay]

I promised myself that if we hit 60K I would up my pledge. We did. I did. $10K 
in an hour is not unprecedented. Let’s get over the top, folks.

Devin Asay


> On May 23, 2016, at 12:23 PM, Ralph DiMola  wrote:
> 
> I just upped again. We're SO... close now.
> If we get very close like 90%+ adding a couple of days would not be the
> worst idea.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> Folks, we had a server glitch which meant you were unable to log in to place
> a pledge (the server that handles logins went down). This has now been
> fixed, you can log in again now, and continue backing this vital project. If
> you tried to pledge in the last 2 hours, and couldn't log in, please try
> again now!
> 
> It's amazing how these things happen at just the worst possible times...
> 
> Warm Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> 
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
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Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

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Re: Suspense

[Dave Kilroy]

Over at https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode/ I've left a comment
saying I’ll add another $250 to my pledge if I can find another person
who’ll also increase theirs by the same.

Reply to this post and/or contact me directly (but before 9 pm) and we’ll
make a pledging pact – anyone up for this?

Kind regards

Dave



-
"The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the 
other 90% of the time."
Peter M. Brigham 
--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Suspense-tp4704926p4705079.html
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Handling Top Status Bar in App Design Stage

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

We can check the status bar to appear when building standalone for iOS or 
Android.

So how do you handle this during prototyping/design stage?


1) just leave the top 22 pixels of the stack bare/empty?

2) What if you want it to have the same color background as your stack? it 
is automatically transparent?

3) one assumes that, if you build your stack for 9wX16h  414 X 736  then 
the you can expect the status bar to "overlay" on top of the top of the stack… 
or… will it push you stack down?


BR
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Re: Handling Top Status Bar in App Design Stage

[Terry Judd]

For iOS I¹ve just taken to leaving the top 22 pixels free of content. If I
want a dark status bar with white text then I position a dark bg graphic
in this space and set the status bar style to Œblack translucent¹ and if I
want black text on a light background I either set the background of the
stack to white and don¹t use a graphic or use a white or light coloured
graphic and then set the status bar style to default.

Terry...

On 24/05/2016 8:55 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
Brahmanathaswami"  wrote:

>We can check the status bar to appear when building standalone for iOS or
>Android.
>
>So how do you handle this during prototyping/design stage?
>
>
>1) just leave the top 22 pixels of the stack bare/empty?
>
>2) What if you want it to have the same color background as your
>stack? it is automatically transparent?
>
>3) one assumes that, if you build your stack for 9wX16h  414 X 736
>then the you can expect the status bar to "overlay" on top of the top of
>the stackŠ orŠ will it push you stack down?
>
>
>BR
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Re: Handling Top Status Bar in App Design Stage

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

Terry, thanks, that pretty much how I thought it would work.  I wanted to hide 
the status bar in some "modules" (card-series) on the same app, but then show 
them on others as I think users appreciate having that information available… 
so if the app does not really require every single pixel top to bottom, why not 
give them the status bar… (my current thinking)

 Looking at the dictionary I'm seeing only three relevant commands

mobileHideStatusbar
mobileShowStatusBar
iPhoneSetStatusBarStyle (style)

Not sure how this plays out on Android if one a) give 22 pixels free space and 
b) is going to go with one of the full screen modes (my Nexus 5 is out of power 
at the moment) The dictionary says:

"mobileHideStatusBar does not have any effect on any Android devices with 
"hardware buttons" embedded in the status bar."

What exactly are the Android "hardware buttons" I thought those ran at the 
bottom by default. In the stand alone builder I see the option to set status 
bar to visible or hidden… so "who" decides where the hardware buttons go.. 

BR


On 5/23/16, 2:23 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd" 
 
wrote:

>For iOS I¹ve just taken to leaving the top 22 pixels free of content. If I
>want a dark status bar with white text then I position a dark bg graphic
>in this space and set the status bar style to Œblack translucent¹ and if I
>want black text on a light background I either set the background of the
>stack to white and don¹t use a graphic or use a white or light coloured
>graphic and then set the status bar style to default.
>
>Terry...

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Re: Handling Top Status Bar in App Design Stage

[Terry Judd]

I usually build iOS and Android apps from different files. The Android
stack has the content all the way to the top and the status bar set to
visible in the standalone settings pane. I also use a combination of the
letterbox fullscreen mode and some geometry management scripts based
around the working to resize/reposition the screen content for different
devices, which seems to deal with OS level stuff at the bottom (and or
top) of the screen.

Terry...

On 24/05/2016 11:01 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin
Brahmanathaswami"  wrote:

>Terry, thanks, that pretty much how I thought it would work.  I wanted to
>hide the status bar in some "modules" (card-series) on the same app, but
>then show them on others as I think users appreciate having that
>information available… so if the app does not really require every single
>pixel top to bottom, why not give them the status bar… (my current
>thinking)
>
> Looking at the dictionary I'm seeing only three relevant commands
>
>mobileHideStatusbar
>mobileShowStatusBar
>iPhoneSetStatusBarStyle (style)
>
>Not sure how this plays out on Android if one a) give 22 pixels free
>space and b) is going to go with one of the full screen modes (my Nexus 5
>is out of power at the moment) The dictionary says:
>
>"mobileHideStatusBar does not have any effect on any Android devices with
>"hardware buttons" embedded in the status bar."
>
>What exactly are the Android "hardware buttons" I thought those ran at
>the bottom by default. In the stand alone builder I see the option to set
>status bar to visible or hidden… so "who" decides where the hardware
>buttons go.. 
>
>BR
>
>
>On 5/23/16, 2:23 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd"
>terry.j...@unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
>
>>For iOS I¹ve just taken to leaving the top 22 pixels free of content. If
>>I
>>want a dark status bar with white text then I position a dark bg graphic
>>in this space and set the status bar style to Œblack translucent¹ and if
>>I
>>want black text on a light background I either set the background of the
>>stack to white and don¹t use a graphic or use a white or light coloured
>>graphic and then set the status bar style to default.
>>
>>Terry...
>
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RE: Handling Top Status Bar in App Design Stage

[Ralph DiMola]

I use the entire card when in the IDE and on mobile resize down from the status 
bar as appropriate. The "effective working screenrect" is the card's working 
area on mobile. This allows for both the status bar and the keyboard(if 
visible). So when the keyboard is activated I have the choice of do nothing, 
shrink the card in the remaining area or if the focused field will be obscured 
then slide the card up to make is visible.

On Android the "hardware buttons" are just that, physical buttons. Usually 
Menu(menukey message), home and back(backkey message). On some devices these 
buttons are soft "hardware buttons" on the bottom of the LCD screen. On these 
devices you don't have access to those pixels. On other devices the soft 
"hardware buttons" are part of the status bar and the "mobileHideStatusBar" 
command will do nothing as you would not be able to exit the app or go to the 
home screen.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 9:02 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Handling Top Status Bar in App Design Stage

Terry, thanks, that pretty much how I thought it would work.  I wanted to hide 
the status bar in some "modules" (card-series) on the same app, but then show 
them on others as I think users appreciate having that information available… 
so if the app does not really require every single pixel top to bottom, why not 
give them the status bar… (my current thinking)

 Looking at the dictionary I'm seeing only three relevant commands

mobileHideStatusbar
mobileShowStatusBar
iPhoneSetStatusBarStyle (style)

Not sure how this plays out on Android if one a) give 22 pixels free space and 
b) is going to go with one of the full screen modes (my Nexus 5 is out of power 
at the moment) The dictionary says:

"mobileHideStatusBar does not have any effect on any Android devices with 
"hardware buttons" embedded in the status bar."

What exactly are the Android "hardware buttons" I thought those ran at the 
bottom by default. In the stand alone builder I see the option to set status 
bar to visible or hidden… so "who" decides where the hardware buttons go.. 

BR


On 5/23/16, 2:23 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd" 
 
wrote:

>For iOS I¹ve just taken to leaving the top 22 pixels free of content. 
>If I want a dark status bar with white text then I position a dark bg 
>graphic in this space and set the status bar style to Œblack 
>translucent¹ and if I want black text on a light background I either 
>set the background of the stack to white and don¹t use a graphic or use 
>a white or light coloured graphic and then set the status bar style to default.
>
>Terry...

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RE: Handling Top Status Bar in App Design Stage

[Ralph DiMola]

I resize to the bottom of a 1 px transparent graphic line the full width of the 
screen that I place in the appropriate place based on the reported device 
geometry. In the IDE and on Android it's at y=-1, on iOS it's... well I don’t 
know or care, LC tells be where it should go. Then I place all objects below 
that line.

PS: 2 files would make my head explode.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Terry Judd
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 9:36 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Handling Top Status Bar in App Design Stage

I usually build iOS and Android apps from different files. The Android stack 
has the content all the way to the top and the status bar set to visible in the 
standalone settings pane. I also use a combination of the letterbox fullscreen 
mode and some geometry management scripts based around the working to 
resize/reposition the screen content for different devices, which seems to deal 
with OS level stuff at the bottom (and or
top) of the screen.

Terry...

On 24/05/2016 11:01 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami" 
 wrote:

>Terry, thanks, that pretty much how I thought it would work.  I wanted 
>to hide the status bar in some "modules" (card-series) on the same app, 
>but then show them on others as I think users appreciate having that 
>information available… so if the app does not really require every 
>single pixel top to bottom, why not give them the status bar… (my 
>current
>thinking)
>
> Looking at the dictionary I'm seeing only three relevant commands
>
>mobileHideStatusbar
>mobileShowStatusBar
>iPhoneSetStatusBarStyle (style)
>
>Not sure how this plays out on Android if one a) give 22 pixels free 
>space and b) is going to go with one of the full screen modes (my Nexus 
>5 is out of power at the moment) The dictionary says:
>
>"mobileHideStatusBar does not have any effect on any Android devices 
>with "hardware buttons" embedded in the status bar."
>
>What exactly are the Android "hardware buttons" I thought those ran at 
>the bottom by default. In the stand alone builder I see the option to 
>set status bar to visible or hidden… so "who" decides where the 
>hardware buttons go..
>
>BR
>
>
>On 5/23/16, 2:23 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd"
>terry.j...@unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
>
>>For iOS I¹ve just taken to leaving the top 22 pixels free of content. 
>>If I want a dark status bar with white text then I position a dark bg 
>>graphic in this space and set the status bar style to Œblack 
>>translucent¹ and if I want black text on a light background I either 
>>set the background of the stack to white and don¹t use a graphic or 
>>use a white or light coloured graphic and then set the status bar 
>>style to default.
>>
>>Terry...
>
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LiveCode 8 GM: inspector regular "goes on vacation"

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

I can be working for an hour or more and then suddenly the inspector refuses to 
open

Is there a way to "kick it open" ??  nothing works here… not form the project 
browser or menus or contextual menus.

only option: shut down LC and reboot.

Anyone else seeing this? I submitted a bug report

BR


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