Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[hh]

TMHO it is much better to animate gifs by an own handler (send in
'regular' time intervals, for example every next full second).
Only by that you have full control on the animation speed on different
hardware. I have a lot of gifs whose speed is set to "fastest", not this
perfect on fast machines, only fine old PowerPCs.

And by setting ONE "check" (variable) you can start/stop
the animation:
= stop at once/ after finishing the loop/ after a certain time amount
= don't stop but pause only
= stop forever after a certain number of repeats
= pause for a certain amount of time
= pause while the suspended
= stopping if the cycle becomes too slow
etc ...
As usual this may all be done by one handler for each gif or
by ONE handler up in the message hierarchy for several gifs.

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Re: Security in 2017 (was "OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed")

[J. Landman Gay]

The limitation goes back to the time when routers cost upwards of $200 and 
hardly anyone had one. Things are getting better now for some manufacturers 
but still not all.


I'm more concerned these days about malware that attacks routers and the 
inability to find out if your current one is vulnerable.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On January 3, 2017 5:42:47 PM Bob Sneidar  wrote:


You may want to spend more than $35 on a router. ;-)

Bob S


On Jan 3, 2017, at 14:54 , J. Landman Gay 
> wrote:


On 1/3/17 3:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
My favorite example is wifi routers.  They ship with a default password
and login published in the manual, and more than 75% are never changed.

And almost all the routers I've had over the years won't even *let* you 
change the login name. It's always "admin" and that's it.  Pah.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | 
jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | 
http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

Good input… off screen or on top card of open window behind the top stack: GIF 
is still running…

Given that we might be instantiating the appearance of these GIFs (icons of 
buttons) "here and there and everywhere" via some low level back script or lib 
that was brought into the msg path with start using… it makes sense then to 
hide it as a "best practice" … with a generalized behavior… this would avert 
the need for additional "sensor code" to be have to check if the window was 
open but behind etc.  

I haven't tried it recently, but I once (years ago) had a number of animated 
GIFs on my desktop (mac)… and the Finder ran slow as molasses.  Put them all 
into a folder, Finder became responsive again.

This got me to thinking the other day, if they slow down LC performance when 
running.

The other term use case beside brief appearance of indicators that come and go, 
 would be even more intensive: in this case we know what is happening, they are 
all there, running on top: set 4-8 animated GIF figures to start moving around 
on the screen, with some voice over story line… will this "die" on a cheap 
Android phone? TBD

Of course we can benchmark this now that we know when the GIF still runs or not.

BR

--
 
Jacque wrote:
I've hidden "busy" gifs before without any repercussions.



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Re: 8.1.2 Offset bug fixed!

[Bob Sneidar]

What is happening is, the Standalone Application Builder is replacing the 
reference to the mainstack in the Stack Files section with something else, so 
the next time I save as standalone, it doesn't include the mainstack. It 
includes something totally different. 

The last app I can compile with is 8.0.1 and I have to go in and fix the stack 
file references first. 

Bob S


> On Jan 3, 2017, at 16:29 , Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> Spoke too soon! Unfortunately the compiler is still borked for me, only this 
> time it's stuck at Loading Settings in the StandAlone Builder Progress 
> window. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jan 3, 2017, at 15:44 , Bob Sneidar  wrote:
>> 
>> YAY! Offset bug fixed! Bless you LC devs. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: 8.1.2 Offset bug fixed!

[Bob Sneidar]

Spoke too soon! Unfortunately the compiler is still borked for me, only this 
time it's stuck at Loading Settings in the StandAlone Builder Progress window. 

Bob S


> On Jan 3, 2017, at 15:44 , Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> YAY! Offset bug fixed! Bless you LC devs. 
> 
> Bob S
> 


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8.1.2 Offset bug fixed!

[Bob Sneidar]

YAY! Offset bug fixed! Bless you LC devs. 

Bob S


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Re: Security in 2017 (was "OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed")

[Bob Sneidar]

You may want to spend more than $35 on a router. ;-)

Bob S


On Jan 3, 2017, at 14:54 , J. Landman Gay 
> wrote:

On 1/3/17 3:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
My favorite example is wifi routers.  They ship with a default password
and login published in the manual, and more than 75% are never changed.

And almost all the routers I've had over the years won't even *let* you change 
the login name. It's always "admin" and that's it.  Pah.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | 
jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | 
http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Dr. Hawkins]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Bob Sneidar 
wrote:

> Not sure this helps you but I use Save this stack all the time and I can
> see the stack in the finder append a tilde (~), create a new stack file
> then the file with the tilde goes away. My changes are always there
> afterwards.
>

That's what's happening here--but it shouldn't be.  On a save-as, there is
no reason to move the old file; it should be proceeding directly to writing
the new filename.



-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Bob Sneidar]

Not sure this helps you but I use Save this stack all the time and I can see 
the stack in the finder append a tilde (~), create a new stack file then the 
file with the tilde goes away. My changes are always there afterwards.

Bob S


On Jan 3, 2017, at 14:01 , Rick Harrison 
> wrote:

I just tried the save statement from within a stack
and I too have found that the stack is not getting saved!
Has anyone reported this as bug?  Is there a work around?

Thanks,

Rick

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Re: Contains vs is in

[Bob Sneidar]

I interact with copier interfaces quite a lot and the process of backing up the 
data involves going through various pages and typing what I see there into a 
text file. I have always thought it would be great to write an app that can do 
it for me, but I have never been able to scrape anything more than the HTML 
text displayed on the page.

I will have to look into ways to use Javascript to do it. If it requires 
already knowing what the values are though, I'm afraid I might meet with 
unsurpassable difficluty.

Bob S


On Jan 3, 2017, at 15:02 , Mike Kerner 
> wrote:

the short answer is "yes", but it can be more complicated as it may require
some javascript execution to pull the data from the server.  It depends on
the site you are scraping.  You can also (possibly) use a service that can
yank that for you.

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Re: Contains vs is in

[Mike Kerner]

the short answer is "yes", but it can be more complicated as it may require
some javascript execution to pull the data from the server.  It depends on
the site you are scraping.  You can also (possibly) use a service that can
yank that for you.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Bob Sneidar 
wrote:

> Speaking of which, is it possible to scrape values from web controls like
> menus and check boxes?
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 12:12 , Mike Kerner > wrote:
>
> I mean if you do web scraping and use LC to analyze the results, a million
> is a small number.
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Security in 2017 (was "OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed")

[J. Landman Gay]

On 1/3/17 3:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

My favorite example is wifi routers.  They ship with a default password
and login published in the manual, and more than 75% are never changed.


And almost all the routers I've had over the years won't even *let* you 
change the login name. It's always "admin" and that's it.  Pah.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Foundation Framework

[J. Landman Gay]

On 1/3/17 4:32 PM, hh wrote:

And that's why we need a lot of typical and good examples for
those who wish to use it (JLG:)
"without understanding a single line of the underlying code".

But if it is as with until now shared widgets, then there will be
again less than 64 ...


True, and I did take a look at LCB briefly. I did part of the tutorial 
and realized my brain doesn't work that way yet. It would take a lot of 
experimentation and practice to use it, which I don't have time for with 
my current work load, so I left my tutorial files on the desktop where 
they still reside. Some day I will look again.


I've been thinking in x-talk for 30 years and it is hard to think any 
other way.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Security in 2017 (was "OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed")

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> And redundant backups are just one more vector to your data.

Indeed it is.  The old adage "physical access = root" still applies.

I have a friend I met through my local Linux user group who does 
security audits.  One of the most common sets of problems he finds isn't 
with firewall rules or password policies, but server room doors propped 
open and ancient easily-picked locks.  And more than a few C-suite 
secretaries with their boss' password on a Post-It note on their 
monitor, viewable by anyone who enters the reception area. No, really.



> Really, security has to be balanced with usability. Absolute security
> is to never write, type, speak  or otherwise store any information
> you want to protect, or which might give clues to any information you
> want to protect. This is of course absurd. We sacrifice some degree
> of confidence for some degree of usability. I personally do not do
> bit level encryption because of the reason stated below. It's too
> easy to lose everything. But locking down you information as best you
> can is always wise.

There is currently a spectrum with Usability on one end and Security at 
the other.  Changes favoring one tend to weaken the other.


I like to believe that the next frontier in UX is to make good security 
practices easy.


My favorite example is wifi routers.  They ship with a default password 
and login published in the manual, and more than 75% are never changed.


Some day we'll see a router vendor come up with a really nice solution 
to make updating the password on first-use super-easy.


And the first one to do it will get the lion's share of the market, 
because right now the rest are so cumbersome to set up that few bother.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Foundation Framework

[hh]

The big problem since several months:
A lot of people are speaking about what may be done, may be
soon. Not about what can be done, showing working examples.

All 'examples' listed in this thread need LCB and most of them
especially a FFI that may be available, may be soon, may be for
java only. Then comes C, may be. I don't mind, I know both,
halfway, good enough for using available libraries/frameworks.

But then a *repeated* decision for developers arises:

> JLG wrote:
> For those who know or don't mind learning C or its variants,
> they can tap directly into OS frameworks to achieve even more.

That's a good point -- the more "foreign" code one has to do.
And that's why we need a lot of typical and good examples for
those who wish to use it (JLG:)
"without understanding a single line of the underlying code".

But if it is as with until now shared widgets, then there will be
again less than 64 ...

> Richmond M. wrote:
> > I wonder how many programmers are going to spend their money on LiveCode
> > if they are aware that at a certain point they are going to have to
> > leverage one or more other programming languages to achieve
> > certain things.
> 
> Jaqueline L.G. wrote:
> No one needs to learn any other language. Since the LC team understands 
> that most users don't want to learn lower-level languages like C++, 
> they've provided an intermediate language -- LCB -- that meets the 
> requirement halfway. For those who know or don't mind learning C or its 
> variants, they can tap directly into OS frameworks to achieve even more.
> None of this means that you yourself need to actually write those 
> things, or that the capabilities of LC have somehow diminished. It isn't 
> any different than writing externals, which have been around forever and 
> which we use with abandon without understanding a single line of the 
> underlying code.

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Re: Security in 2017 (was "OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed")

[Rick Harrison]

Hi Bob,

That is both a great and terrible story!
One really can’t make this type of
story up either because it’s too bizarre.

Sorry to hear that it was a true one for you!
Thanks for sharing...

Rick

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> And redundant backups are just one more vector to your data. Really, security 
> has to be balanced with usability. Absolute security is to never write, type, 
> speak  or otherwise store any information you want to protect, or which might 
> give clues to any information you want to protect. This is of course absurd. 
> We sacrifice some degree of confidence for some degree of usability. I 
> personally do not do bit level encryption because of the reason stated below. 
> It's too easy to lose everything. But locking down you information as best 
> you can is always wise. 
> 
> By way of example, I took a phone into Apple where I had the fingerprint 
> recognition enabled. The touch screen was intermittent, so I had them replace 
> the touch screen. They did of course, first have me disable the fingerprint 
> recognition, and turn off Find My iPhone. I got the phone back bricked. They 
> had damaged the cable that goes from the security chip to the logic board, 
> and now the phone was impossible to restore. The chip marries itself to the 
> board, and even replacing the cable would not have solved the problem. 
> Otherwise anyone could bypass the security by simply putting a new security 
> chip/cable in the phone. 
> 
> Yes, too much security is a bad, bad, very bad thing. 
> 
> Bob S
> 


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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Dr. Hawkins]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Rick Harrison 
wrote:

> I just tried the save statement from within a stack
> and I too have found that the stack is not getting saved!
> Has anyone reported this as bug?  Is there a work around?
>

This one was so bizarre that I need to make sure I wasn't crazy.

Now *Bug 19042*  - "save
as" reserves stack with same filename

"save as" would be my goto  for a workaround, but that obviously won't do
it . . .

maybe send a sequence to the shell to move the old stack to a new name,
then save, then another shell to rename the new stack, and another to move
the original back?
-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: save stack as filename failing most of the time

[Rick Harrison]

I just tried the save statement from within a stack
and I too have found that the stack is not getting saved!
Has anyone reported this as bug?  Is there a work around?

Thanks,

Rick

> On Dec 30, 2016, at 6:06 PM, Dr. Hawkins  wrote:
> 
> Just saw it happen.
> 
> Apparently, it is simply ignoring the new name--I see the ~ stack renaming,
> and then the new stack is created with the original name, not the contents
> of filNam, and the ~ stack deleted.
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: TS Net for Indy vs Business

[William Prothero]

Charles:
It also seems to me like this is a vital feature that could cripple some 
applications. I agree with the other posters that the Indy version will 
probably be purchased by the great majority of those who purchase licenses. It 
“should” be a big market. 

Best,
Bill

> Skip Kimpel  wrote:
> 
>+1
> 
>LC needs to reconsider breaking up functionality based upon licensing.
> 
>SKIP
> 
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Re: Foundation Framework

[J. Landman Gay]

On 1/3/17 1:54 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

I wonder how many programmers are going to spend their money on LiveCode
if they are aware that at a certain point they are going to have to
leverage one or more other programming languages to achieve
certain things.


No one needs to learn any other language. Since the LC team understands 
that most users don't want to learn lower-level languages like C++, 
they've provided an intermediate language -- LCB -- that meets the 
requirement halfway. For those who know or don't mind learning C or its 
variants, they can tap directly into OS frameworks to achieve even more.


None of this means that you yourself need to actually write those 
things, or that the capabilities of LC have somehow diminished. It isn't 
any different than writing externals, which have been around forever and 
which we use with abandon without understanding a single line of the 
underlying code.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Security in 2017 (was "OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed")

[Richard Gaskin]

Rick Harrison wrote:

> Hi Richard,
>
> Remember that if just one bit/blob on your encrypted hard
> drive becomes unreadable, then you could lose
> everything on that drive.  That makes redundant
> backups over time even more important!

That was why I've been putting it off for so long.  But so far I've had 
such good luck with the encrypted volumes I've been using, and have such 
redundancy to my backups (I live in an earthquake-prone area), that for 
me it's the right time to consider the change.



> Have a great secure NewYear!

Thanks.  And a safe and happy one for you as well.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[Bob Sneidar]

Makes sense. There really is no "off screen" to the modern computer.
On Jan 3, 2017, at 13:03 , J. Landman Gay 
> wrote:

Clever. So I got curious, what would happen if the stack is moved offscreen? 
Result: it still updates. What happens if you hide the image? Result: it 
doesn't update.

I kind of knew that last one already, I've hidden "busy" gifs before without 
any repercussions.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | 
jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | 
http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Security in 2017 (was "OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed")

[Bob Sneidar]

And redundant backups are just one more vector to your data. Really, security 
has to be balanced with usability. Absolute security is to never write, type, 
speak  or otherwise store any information you want to protect, or which might 
give clues to any information you want to protect. This is of course absurd. We 
sacrifice some degree of confidence for some degree of usability. I personally 
do not do bit level encryption because of the reason stated below. It's too 
easy to lose everything. But locking down you information as best you can is 
always wise. 

By way of example, I took a phone into Apple where I had the fingerprint 
recognition enabled. The touch screen was intermittent, so I had them replace 
the touch screen. They did of course, first have me disable the fingerprint 
recognition, and turn off Find My iPhone. I got the phone back bricked. They 
had damaged the cable that goes from the security chip to the logic board, and 
now the phone was impossible to restore. The chip marries itself to the board, 
and even replacing the cable would not have solved the problem. Otherwise 
anyone could bypass the security by simply putting a new security chip/cable in 
the phone. 

Yes, too much security is a bad, bad, very bad thing. 

Bob S


> On Jan 3, 2017, at 12:46 , Rick Harrison  wrote:
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> Remember that if just one bit/blob on your encrypted hard
> drive becomes unreadable, then you could lose
> everything on that drive.  That makes redundant
> backups over time even more important!
> 
> Have a great secure NewYear!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> 
>> This year I want to take this further. I just turned off automatic login; 
>> next I'll encrypt my home partition. ...
> 
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Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[hh]

Yet another option.

One may use for the 'it-pauses-until-coming-back'-test a gif that
counts in seconds from 0 up to 100:

giphy.com/gifs/TCJTqRAxRbhGU   (repeatCount=-1)

Note. If you go to a different window (of LC or not), leaving the
running gif on the top card of its window, then the gif keeps going
on, whether hidden by another window or not.


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Re: Contains vs is in

[Bob Sneidar]

Speaking of which, is it possible to scrape values from web controls like menus 
and check boxes?

Bob S


On Jan 3, 2017, at 12:12 , Mike Kerner 
> wrote:

I mean if you do web scraping and use LC to analyze the results, a million
is a small number.

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Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[J. Landman Gay]

On 1/3/17 2:07 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Richmond Mathewson wrote:


If a GIF is running on another card I really wonder how you determine
that.


Put an animated GIF on a card, and this in the stack script:

on idle
   put the currentFrame of img 1 of cd 1
end idle

Then go to another card.

Here, a quick test confirms Jacque's hunch; the Message Box only updates
when I'm on the card with the GIF.



Clever. So I got curious, what would happen if the stack is moved 
offscreen? Result: it still updates. What happens if you hide the image? 
Result: it doesn't update.


I kind of knew that last one already, I've hidden "busy" gifs before 
without any repercussions.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Security in 2017 (was "OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed")

[Rick Harrison]

Hi Richard,

Remember that if just one bit/blob on your encrypted hard
drive becomes unreadable, then you could lose
everything on that drive.  That makes redundant
backups over time even more important!

Have a great secure NewYear!

Rick

> 
> This year I want to take this further. I just turned off automatic login; 
> next I'll encrypt my home partition. ...

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Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> If a GIF is running on another card I really wonder how you determine
> that.

Put an animated GIF on a card, and this in the stack script:

on idle
   put the currentFrame of img 1 of cd 1
end idle

Then go to another card.

Here, a quick test confirms Jacque's hunch; the Message Box only updates 
when I'm on the card with the GIF.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Contains vs is in

[Richard Gaskin]

Thanks. I've been accused of over-obsessing about performance so often 
that it didn't occur to me my comment could be seen as erring the other 
way. :)


I've done scraping, but fortunately here the simplest syntax is also the 
more efficient.


And even in tasks requiring fewer than a million iterations, it's often 
helpful to adopt habits that favor performance.


I like to think of it as the opposite of technical debt, a sort of 
savings account from which you can later draw clock cycles for new 
features or more thorough error-checking as needed.


But on balance, for all the benchmarking I've done over the years I try 
to remain mindful of the ROI of such efforts.


Sometimes it's quite high and well worth it.  Other times, not so much.

Some optimizations come at a cost not only to initial development as 
various options are explored, but also to ongoing maintenance. 
Sometimes highly-optimized code is really hard to read, and harder to 
fix or extend.


With any quantification, percentages are only part of a complete 
breakfast.  I find it helpful to keep absolute values in mind as well.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


hh wrote:

> I think he means
>
> 10% of 1/100 of 1,000,000 iterations of a nano-million-dollar are 1
> dollar.
>
>> Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> ?
>>> Mike Kerner wrote:
>>> > says the guy who doesn't scrape.
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> hh wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > I wasn't aware of that, good to know, "is in"/"contains" is 10%
>>> >> > faster than "offset() > 0".
>>> >>
>>> >> But as with many benchmarks, it's helpful to keep the absolute 
times in

>>> >> mind.
>>> >>
>>> >> In my quickie test script I had to use 1,000,000 iterations just 
to get

>>> >> any appreciable duration to test.
>>> >>
>>> >> 10% of a fraction is a nanosecond isn't much to lose sleep over.
>>> >> :)


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Re: Contains vs is in

[Mike Kerner]

I mean if you do web scraping and use LC to analyze the results, a million
is a small number.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 2:34 PM, hh  wrote:

> I think he means
>
> 10% of 1/100 of 1,000,000 iterations of a nano-million-dollar are 1 dollar.
>
> > Richard Gaskin wrote:
> > ?
> >> Mike Kerner wrote:
> >> > says the guy who doesn't scrape.
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> hh wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I wasn't aware of that, good to know, "is in"/"contains" is 10%
> >> >> > faster than "offset() > 0".
> >> >>
> >> >> But as with many benchmarks, it's helpful to keep the absolute times
> in
> >> >> mind.
> >> >>
> >> >> In my quickie test script I had to use 1,000,000 iterations just to
> get
> >> >> any appreciable duration to test.
> >> >>
> >> >> 10% of a fraction is a nanosecond isn't much to lose sleep over. :)
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Foundation Framework

[Dr. Hawkins]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:51 AM JB  wrote:

>
>
> L>llLearning C will help even if for some reason
>

With apologies that Twain . . .

*learning* C is easy--I've done it dozens of times.

*remembering* it a few weeks after the project is another story .. .
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Re: Foundation Framework

[Bob Sneidar]

Richmond, don't make me pull out my "LC is like a constructor set" analogy 
again!!!

Bob S


On Jan 3, 2017, at 11:54 , Richmond Mathewson 
> wrote:

This whole thing looks like an awful sort of confession of "F".

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Re: Foundation Framework

[Bob Sneidar]

If you knew even the basics of C you could write widgets that could do things 
you presently cannot do in LC. At least that is what I think they are saying. 
An example? A really robust SMTP module, that knows how to work with modern 
encryption. This is not trivial, but thankfully, there are libraries and API's 
that are already written to do most of the heavy lifting.

Another might be writing a REAL progress dialog which ran in it's own thread. 
Or how about something that handles a graphics animation for a game? Or was 
able to interact with another program like Adobe Acrobat via the Javascript 
API, something that cannot be done presently without some API's in place.

Bob S


On Jan 3, 2017, at 11:19 , hh > wrote:

You certainly don't mean people should learn C/C++/ObjC
and not use LC any more. So I really don't understand
the purpose of this thread:

Foundation Framework is "prepackaged" code, also LCB.
So could you please give us one simple example of what
you mean with "you can use its power inside of a stack
instead of writing extensions" (with the help of C/C++/ObjC
only).

Thanks.

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Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[Richmond Mathewson]

On 1/3/17 9:47 pm, Peter Bogdanoff wrote:

I suppose one way to test, is to go to the card where the GIF is running—does 
it start at the beginning every time you go there?


I'm not sure if that would work: as if you left a card while a GIF was 
in mid-cycle it might be paused at that frame until you returned to that 
card.


Richmond.


pb

On Jan 3, 2017, at 11:33 AM, J. Landman Gay  wrote:


On 1/2/17 9:23 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

When are on Card 1… is that GIF still running and taking up CPU
cycles even though it is effectively "hidden" by virtue of being on
Card 3?

I don't believe so, LC only draws what is on the current card.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[Richmond Mathewson]

If a GIF is running on another card I really wonder how you determine that.

Richmond.

On 1/3/17 9:33 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 1/2/17 9:23 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

When are on Card 1… is that GIF still running and taking up CPU
cycles even though it is effectively "hidden" by virtue of being on
Card 3?


I don't believe so, LC only draws what is on the current card.


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Re: Foundation Framework

[Richmond Mathewson]

This whole thing looks like an awful sort of confession of "F".

If LiveCode is what it should be (a comprehensive programming package) 
it should not have to
rely on users' knowledge of other programming languages to achieve some 
of the things it should

be perfectly capable of doing inwith itself.

I, for one, have ONLY worked with LiveCode and its predecessors 
(HyperCard and so on, side trip to
ToolBook) for about 23 years (well; aberrational "romance" with Visual 
Basic 6 owing to MA requirements:
probably like committing adultery: you suddenly realise what a fool 
you've been and where your true loyalties lie). In fact I haven't really 
done much "elsewhere" since PASCAL 5 (1984) for the plain and
simple reason that LiveCode has been pushed as a complete and 
comprehensive programming package.


So, by doing "this" we are now being told it is not a complete and 
comprehensive programming package.


Well, all I can say is "Thank b*gg*ry my requirements are limited to 
what LC can provide currently" (well, at the moment).


Frankly the thought of having to go and learn C/C++/C#/ObjC? and so on 
fills me with dread: not because I'm
stupid and can't, nor because I'm lazy and can't be bothered: but 
because I have invested all my spare
time (ask my wife about THAT topic) in learning LiveCode, and don't 
simply have the time to start learning

another 4 or 5 programming languages.

I am, at the moment, learning Scratch because I have had requests from 
about 2 dozen parents to teach their children that this Summer: this is 
hardly time-consuming as it is, strictly speaking, a Mickey-mouse
language which one can do things in after about 15 minutes if one has 
even a very basic grasp of any other programming package. C and C++ are, 
most definitely, not like Scratch.


Even LCB makes me wonder slightly: why should it be necessary to invent 
a second programming language to write add-ons for the first one? This 
is like my having to speak in Scots because Bulgarian is somehow
incapable of expressing some ideas: which of course is nonsense as 
Bulgarian is just as good as Scots for

expressing everything.

I wonder how many programmers are going to spend their money on LiveCode 
if they are aware that at a certain point they are going to have to 
leverage one or more other programming languages to achieve
certain things. Now, while I am going to continue to promote LiveCode as 
a very effective teaching and learning tool I am wondering about making 
a fool of myself continuing to tell all the programmers here in Bulgaria 
(a major outsourcing place both for the United States and the EU) that 
LiveCode can do what C++ can do. Especially as 90% of the programmers I 
am acquainted with (I teach their children English, I get paid by them 
to translate some programming stuff, I install Linux for them, and so 
on) think that C++ is the "Bee's Knees".


HyperCard began to fall apart when it started having to have to use 
AppleScript for certain things . . .


Richmond.

On 1/3/17 9:19 pm, hh wrote:

JB wrote:
The Livecode team imported Apple’s Foundation
Framework so you can use its power inside of a
stack instead of writing extensions.

JB wrote also:
If you want it all prepackaged ask the
Livecode team to use the samples in
widgets.  They will do what they see
is financially beneficial so your money
speaks when it comes to changes.

You certainly don't mean people should learn C/C++/ObjC
and not use LC any more. So I really don't understand
the purpose of this thread:

Foundation Framework is "prepackaged" code, also LCB.
So could you please give us one simple example of what
you mean with "you can use its power inside of a stack
instead of writing extensions" (with the help of C/C++/ObjC
only).

Thanks.


JB wrote:
I did what I could to provide some good
examples to help people learn.

If you are not making any mistakes then
you are not learning anything.

If you want it all prepackaged ask the
Livecode team to use the samples in
widgets.  They will do what they see
is financially beneficial so your money
speaks when it comes to changes.

JB



On Jan 3, 2017, at 5:16 AM, hh  wrote:


JB wrote:
Over a year ago they said Foundation was
imported and you can even use pointers. I
don’t have anymore info about it.

JB,
thanks. A simple example of an already available foundation
function and a link to a header listing others is here:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=147232#p147232
(explained there by peter-b, for use in a widget's code)

But that's probably the very beginning only of what you have
in mind.


JB wrote:
Learning C will help even if for some reason they are having
problems with Foundation.

Most of us hope that having a good example for copy and paste
will be enough for "similar usages" with small changes. Avoiding
C/C++/objC or java may be, besides LC's cross-platform property,
for many people a main reason to use LiveCode.

It will be an important community contribution by people like
you to 

Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[Peter Bogdanoff]

I suppose one way to test, is to go to the card where the GIF is running—does 
it start at the beginning every time you go there?

pb

On Jan 3, 2017, at 11:33 AM, J. Landman Gay  wrote:

> On 1/2/17 9:23 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:
>> When are on Card 1… is that GIF still running and taking up CPU
>> cycles even though it is effectively "hidden" by virtue of being on
>> Card 3?
> 
> I don't believe so, LC only draws what is on the current card.
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
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Re: Contains vs is in

[hh]

I think he means

10% of 1/100 of 1,000,000 iterations of a nano-million-dollar are 1 dollar.

> Richard Gaskin wrote:
> ?
>> Mike Kerner wrote:
>> > says the guy who doesn't scrape.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> >
>> >> hh wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I wasn't aware of that, good to know, "is in"/"contains" is 10%
>> >> > faster than "offset() > 0".
>> >>
>> >> But as with many benchmarks, it's helpful to keep the absolute times in
>> >> mind.
>> >>
>> >> In my quickie test script I had to use 1,000,000 iterations just to get
>> >> any appreciable duration to test.
>> >>
>> >> 10% of a fraction is a nanosecond isn't much to lose sleep over. :)

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Re: Animated Gifs on Other Cards

[J. Landman Gay]

On 1/2/17 9:23 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

When are on Card 1… is that GIF still running and taking up CPU
cycles even though it is effectively "hidden" by virtue of being on
Card 3?


I don't believe so, LC only draws what is on the current card.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Foundation Framework

[hh]

>> JB wrote:
>> The Livecode team imported Apple’s Foundation
>> Framework so you can use its power inside of a
>> stack instead of writing extensions.

> JB wrote also:
> If you want it all prepackaged ask the
> Livecode team to use the samples in
> widgets.  They will do what they see
> is financially beneficial so your money
> speaks when it comes to changes.

You certainly don't mean people should learn C/C++/ObjC
and not use LC any more. So I really don't understand
the purpose of this thread:

Foundation Framework is "prepackaged" code, also LCB.
So could you please give us one simple example of what
you mean with "you can use its power inside of a stack
instead of writing extensions" (with the help of C/C++/ObjC
only).

Thanks.

> JB wrote:
> I did what I could to provide some good
> examples to help people learn.
> 
> If you are not making any mistakes then
> you are not learning anything.
> 
> If you want it all prepackaged ask the
> Livecode team to use the samples in
> widgets.  They will do what they see
> is financially beneficial so your money
> speaks when it comes to changes.
> 
> JB
> 
> 
> > On Jan 3, 2017, at 5:16 AM, hh  wrote:
> > 
> >> JB wrote:
> >> Over a year ago they said Foundation was
> >> imported and you can even use pointers. I
> >> don’t have anymore info about it.
> > 
> > JB, 
> > thanks. A simple example of an already available foundation
> > function and a link to a header listing others is here:
> > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=147232#p147232
> > (explained there by peter-b, for use in a widget's code)
> > 
> > But that's probably the very beginning only of what you have
> > in mind.
> > 
> >> JB wrote:
> >> Learning C will help even if for some reason they are having
> >> problems with Foundation.
> > 
> > Most of us hope that having a good example for copy and paste
> > will be enough for "similar usages" with small changes. Avoiding
> > C/C++/objC or java may be, besides LC's cross-platform property,
> > for many people a main reason to use LiveCode.
> > 
> > It will be an important community contribution by people like
> > you to give us such typical good examples!
> > 
> > hh


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Security in 2017 (was "OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed")

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> DON'T CLICK THE LINK!

Amen, brother. A wise default.  Click nothing in an email unless you're 
certain it is what it claims to be.


This article was eye-opening for me:

  The human attack surface, counting it all up
  Humans have become the primary attack surface for cyber criminals.



...which includes this gem:

"Ninety-one percent of attacks by cyber criminals start through email..."


As app devs we're making ever-fewer solo apps with isolated islands of 
information, increasingly supporting collaboration with client-server 
systems.


Protecting our users' data is of course a priority, but often what's 
more important to the attacker are the passwords and control of the 
server itself.


This requires all of us in this profession to take a fresh look at not 
only each individual part of a system, but the ways they connect to one 
another.


Email plays a central role in much of what we do, and refining our 
practices with how we use it can help mitigate risks to things that may 
not immediately seem related.


Last year I moved my email credentials from the main hard drive to an 
encrypted USB thumb drive. There are tutorials on the web for doing this 
with most email clients.  With that, stealing my laptop doesn't grant 
the thief access to my email; they'd also need to steal my thumb drive, 
and also have the password to that drive.


This year I want to take this further. I just turned off automatic 
login; next I'll encrypt my home partition.  I'm exploring options to 
run browsers exclusively in containers to isolate them beyond their 
sandbox.  I'm upgrading my password hashing and salting.  I'm replacing 
my SSH keys with longer ones.  And I'm reading more about these things 
for new things to add as I go.


Risk can never be eliminated, but it can be mitigated.  And as we've 
seen with the DDoS attack on the east coast in October, and the email 
hacks over the summer, much of the risk we face can be avoided with only 
a little diligence.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Bob Sneidar]

Fair enough, except that list servers are supposed to be configured in such a 
way so as to get around this. A list server *should* send a separate email to 
each user in a list, NOT one email to ALL the users in the list. The latter 
will definitely get "DMARC'd" as spam, especially if the addresses are not in 
the BCC field. Also, the list server *should* send the emails in a throttled 
way, so as not to raise any flags. 

It may be that gmail has tightened their DMARC rules, and so an adjustment 
needs to be made in the list server to accomodate them. If this cannot be done, 
it might be advisable to use a different domain. Mail issues like this are 
definitely a nuisance, but in the modern age where email accounts are getting 
compromised, providers are understandably a bit skittish. 

Bob S


> On Jan 3, 2017, at 09:08 , J. Landman Gay  wrote:
> 
> Found this explanation:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2015-December/080211.html
> 
> It includes this:
> 
> Let us say you have 5 users on your list, user1 at aol.com, user2 at aol.com, 
> user3 at aol.com user4 at aol.com and user5 at aol.com. user1 at aol.com 
> posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to deliver to user2, user3, 
> user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead, we don't talk to you because 
> of our DMARC policy" mail to user2 user3 user4 and user5 bounces. Their 
> bounce count is incremented.
> 
> user2 at aol.com posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to deliver 
> to user1, user3, user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead, we don't talk 
> to you because of our DMARC policy" mail to user1 user3 user4 and user5 
> bounces. Their bounce count is incremented. and so on. Every time somebody 
> from aol sends mail to the list, it bounces for every other aol member on 
> your list. Their bounce counts increase.
> 
> One day, some message sends some of the bounce counts over the limit mailman 
> has, after which it says -- Too many bounces! I cannot deliver mail to this 
> account! Unsubscribe this person! And, because of the way things have 
> happened you get a triggering message which causes a lot of unsubscribes 
> _from the same site_.
> 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Ben Rubinstein]

In reply to this

>> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:

So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are
using gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If
there is a way to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since
the drops are caused by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't
think there is much that LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and
actively rejected by Google filters.


(which I don't have in original form because... I got bounced again just 
before xmas and have only just re-enabled delivery!)


... I have nothing to do with gmail, at least in relation to any accounts that 
runrev or its list software knows about, and I've also been bounced at least 
four times in the last few months.


So I don't think it's a gmail thing specifically.

It is interesting because I've not noticed a similar problem on any non-runrev 
lists I subscribe to (including other mailman ones). And come to think of it, 
I'm not sure that I've been bounced from livecode-dev.


Is it that there is a lot of spam being sent to the list (which most of us 
aren't aware of because our mail services or mail clients sweep it away before 
we could see it)? If so I'd expect to see them in the archives, and a on a 
brief scan for the last couple of months I don't see any.


Presumably the only way to debug this is if Heather can catch some of the 
actual bounces messages from our email servers back to Mailman, to see what 
reasons are stated in those bounces. Or if anyone is still running their own 
mail server (why?) and has the problem perhaps they could check their logs.



On 03/01/2017 16:08, Bob Sneidar wrote:

It is possible that someone's list address got harvested and is being actively 
used for populating spam headers, in which case Google spam filters would have 
no way of discerning that the address or entire server was viable.

Bob S



On Dec 31, 2016, at 11:55 , Richmond Mathewson  
wrote:

Doesn't say much for Google.

Richmond.

On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Really: only 4?

It is a bit farcical.

Richmond.

On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:

This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
months.


So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are using 
gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If there is a way to 
whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the drops are caused by the 
refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there is much that LiveCode can 
do. The list is being sent and actively rejected by Google filters.




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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[J. Landman Gay]

Found this explanation:
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2015-December/080211.html

It includes this:

Let us say you have 5 users on your list, user1 at aol.com, user2 at 
aol.com, user3 at aol.com user4 at aol.com and user5 at aol.com. user1 at 
aol.com posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to deliver to 
user2, user3, user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead, we don't talk 
to you because of our DMARC policy" mail to user2 user3 user4 and user5 
bounces. Their bounce count is incremented.


user2 at aol.com posts a piece of mail to your list. mailman tries to 
deliver to user1, user3, user4 and user5 @ aol.com aol says "drop dead, we 
don't talk to you because of our DMARC policy" mail to user1 user3 user4 
and user5 bounces. Their bounce count is incremented. and so on. Every time 
somebody from aol sends mail to the list, it bounces for every other aol 
member on your list. Their bounce counts increase.


One day, some message sends some of the bounce counts over the limit 
mailman has, after which it says -- Too many bounces! I cannot deliver mail 
to this account! Unsubscribe this person! And, because of the way things 
have happened you get a triggering message which causes a lot of 
unsubscribes _from the same site_.


Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[proth...@earthlearningsolutions.org]

Folks,
My Apple mail program lets me see the actual link before I click it, by 
hovering the mouse over the link and examining the destination. I have gotten 
phishing that looks exactly like an email my bank would send. This season I've 
gotten many emails trying to alert me to a package that could not be delivered, 
and saying my server was putting out spam. All of these had attachments with 
malware that would be installed.

It has been a busy season for phishermen and phisherwomen.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
> Concerning getting malware and subsequently getting all your cashed and saved 
> email addresses sent to demonic entities known as "spam houses", I suppose 
> the moral to this story is... DON'T CLICK THE LINK! 
> 
> Unless it's from friends and family, in which case... DON'T CLICK THE LINK! 
> 
> Unless it's from your bank, or a long lost friend in which case... 
> 
> DO!
> 
> NOT!
> 
> CLICK!
> 
> THE!
> 
> LINK
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Contains vs is in

[Richard Gaskin]

?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems

Mike Kerner wrote:


says the guy who doesn't scrape.

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


hh wrote:

> I wasn't aware of that, good to know, "is in"/"contains" is 10%
> faster than "offset() > 0".

But as with many benchmarks, it's helpful to keep the absolute times in
mind.

In my quickie test script I had to use 1,000,000 iterations just to get
any appreciable duration to test.

10% of a fraction is a nanosecond isn't much to lose sleep over. :)



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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Bob Sneidar]

Concerning getting malware and subsequently getting all your cashed and saved 
email addresses sent to demonic entities known as "spam houses", I suppose the 
moral to this story is... DON'T CLICK THE LINK! 

Unless it's from friends and family, in which case... DON'T CLICK THE LINK! 

Unless it's from your bank, or a long lost friend in which case... 

DO!

NOT!

CLICK!

THE!

LINK

Bob S



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Re: OK, the list *really* needs to be fixed

[Bob Sneidar]

It is possible that someone's list address got harvested and is being actively 
used for populating spam headers, in which case Google spam filters would have 
no way of discerning that the address or entire server was viable. 

Bob S


> On Dec 31, 2016, at 11:55 , Richmond Mathewson  
> wrote:
> 
> Doesn't say much for Google.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 12/31/16 9:53 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>> On 12/31/16 2:16 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>>> Really: only 4?
>>> 
>>> It is a bit farcical.
>>> 
>>> Richmond.
>>> 
>>> On 12/31/16 12:48 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
 This is about the fourth time I've been unsubscribed in the last few
 months.
>> 
>> So far, at least in this round, the people who have been dropped are using 
>> gmail addresses. I've read about issues with gmail before. If there is a way 
>> to whitelist the LiveCode list, that could help. Since the drops are caused 
>> by the refusal of the receiving domain, I don't think there is much that 
>> LiveCode can do. The list is being sent and actively rejected by Google 
>> filters.
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: how to create a list in easyJSON

[Bob Sneidar]

Hmmm... all of this may explain why a table in a PDF fillable form breaks the 
controls out as columns, not records. So when populating an FDF file, my data 
needs to have each column in it's own variable, or else I have to do nested 
repeats to place it all correctly. 

Bob S



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Re: Foundation Framework

[Bob Sneidar]

On Jan 3, 2017, at 07:10 , JB 
> wrote:

I did what I could to provide some good
examples to help people learn.

If you are not making any mistakes then
you are not learning anything.

If you are not making any mistakes, it's likely that you don't NEED to learn 
anything else. :-)

Bob S


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Re: compiling a standalone wit multiple stacks

[Bob Sneidar]

If you have other stacks, then I think if I understand what you mean by, "pull 
in other stacks" that there is no way to avoid this. LC will only "compile" the 
main stack. The other substacks, libraries etc. will be separate stacks. If you 
need to protect these from manipulation or want to obscure the coding, you will 
need to password protect each one. 

Bob S


> On Dec 31, 2016, at 14:57 , Dr. Hawkins  wrote:
> 
> I'm back, at last, to finally trying to compile.
> 
> I have a master stack, a library stack shared with other projects with a
> couple of sub stacks, and several other stacks.  Each is kept in it's own
> file for crude revision control.
> 
> I want a single application, not an application which pulls in outside
> stacks.
> 
> Before compiling, is it enough to add the other stacks as stackfiles of the
> master stack?   Or do I need to change them all so that my master stack is
> their main stack, save, and then compile?
> 
> And just what is the property for this.  It appears it should be in
> the cRevStandaloneSettings
> of my stack, but what element?  Although if I can simply set the
> stackFiles, I guess I don't need to worry about that, but I don't want to
> click my way through the dialog settings every time . . . (many other
> settings are set in my startup).
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: Foundation Framework

[JB]

I did what I could to provide some good
examples to help people learn.

If you are not making any mistakes then
you are not learning anything.

If you want it all prepackaged ask the
Livecode team to use the samples in
widgets.  They will do what they see
is financially beneficial so your money
speaks when it comes to changes.

JB


> On Jan 3, 2017, at 5:16 AM, hh  wrote:
> 
>> JB wrote:
>> Over a year ago they said Foundation was
>> imported and you can even use pointers. I
>> don’t have anymore info about it.
> 
> JB, 
> thanks. A simple example of an already available foundation
> function and a link to a header listing others is here:
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=147232#p147232
> (explained there by peter-b, for use in a widget's code)
> 
> But that's probably the very beginning only of what you have
> in mind.
> 
>> JB wrote:
>> Learning C will help even if for some reason they are having
>> problems with Foundation.
> 
> Most of us hope that having a good example for copy and paste
> will be enough for "similar usages" with small changes. Avoiding
> C/C++/objC or java may be, besides LC's cross-platform property,
> for many people a main reason to use LiveCode.
> 
> It will be an important community contribution by people like
> you to give us such typical good examples!
> 
> hh
> 
> 
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Re: Foundation Framework

[hh]

> JB wrote:
> Over a year ago they said Foundation was
> imported and you can even use pointers. I
> don’t have anymore info about it.

JB, 
thanks. A simple example of an already available foundation
function and a link to a header listing others is here:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=147232#p147232
(explained there by peter-b, for use in a widget's code)

But that's probably the very beginning only of what you have
in mind.

> JB wrote:
> Learning C will help even if for some reason they are having
> problems with Foundation.

Most of us hope that having a good example for copy and paste
will be enough for "similar usages" with small changes. Avoiding
C/C++/objC or java may be, besides LC's cross-platform property,
for many people a main reason to use LiveCode.

It will be an important community contribution by people like
you to give us such typical good examples!

hh


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Re: Foundation Framework

[JB]

Hi,
Over a year ago they said Foundation was
imported and you can even use pointers.  I
don’t have anymore info about it.

Learning C will help even if for some reason
they are having problems with Foundation.

I am glad the links work.  One day links are
there and another they are gone so if you
value the code save it while you can.

JB



> On Jan 3, 2017, at 3:09 AM, hh  wrote:
> 
>> JB wrote:
>> The Livecode team imported Apple’s Foundation
>> Framework so you can use its power inside of a
>> stack instead of writing extensions.  It will be a
>> little slower than an extension but in many cases
>> the loss of speed will not be noticeable.
> 
> JB,
> 
> are you speaking about the future, that is LCB via FFI, or
> do you already have a non-trivial example for that (and are
> willing to share it)?
> 
> hh
> 
> p.s. Your 'tutorial' links are fine, thanks.
> 
>> JB sundown at pacifier.com wrote:
>> 
> 
>> The Livecode team imported Apple’s Foundation
>> Framework so you can use its power inside of a
>> stack instead of writing extensions.  It will be a
>> little slower than an extension but in many cases
>> the loss of speed will not be noticeable.
>> 
>> To access all the power of foundation you need to
>> know objective-c which is simply improvements
>> to the C language.
>> 
>> Everything in the C language is a function.  Livecode
>> was written in C++ so learning it will help you write
>> functions in Livecodde.
>> 
>> Here are two links that will help you;
>> 1.  One of the best tutorials for C loaded with
>> examples.
>> http://fresh2refresh.com/c-programming/
>> 2.  Some of the best examples I have seen for
>> accessing the power of Foundation.
>> https://ios.eezytutorials.com/nsarray-by-example.php#.WGr_jrGZMlU
>> Happy New Year and Happy Programming!
>> JB
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Foundation Framework

[hh]

> JB wrote:
> The Livecode team imported Apple’s Foundation
> Framework so you can use its power inside of a
> stack instead of writing extensions.  It will be a
> little slower than an extension but in many cases
> the loss of speed will not be noticeable.

JB,

are you speaking about the future, that is LCB via FFI, or
do you already have a non-trivial example for that (and are
willing to share it)?

hh

p.s. Your 'tutorial' links are fine, thanks.

> JB sundown at pacifier.com wrote:
> 

> The Livecode team imported Apple’s Foundation
> Framework so you can use its power inside of a
> stack instead of writing extensions.  It will be a
> little slower than an extension but in many cases
> the loss of speed will not be noticeable.
> 
> To access all the power of foundation you need to
> know objective-c which is simply improvements
> to the C language.
> 
> Everything in the C language is a function.  Livecode
> was written in C++ so learning it will help you write
> functions in Livecodde.
> 
> Here are two links that will help you;
> 1.  One of the best tutorials for C loaded with
> examples.
> http://fresh2refresh.com/c-programming/
> 2.  Some of the best examples I have seen for
>  accessing the power of Foundation.
> https://ios.eezytutorials.com/nsarray-by-example.php#.WGr_jrGZMlU
> Happy New Year and Happy Programming!
> JB



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